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adrian lord

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What if they didn’t.

Not all players or people are the same

We simply cannot be the only club that had to sell so many players over such a short space of time for no reason than being quite good

 

Maybe they wouldn't have,but am pretty sure most would judging by their character. Yes you are correct,we couldn't afford to sell so many,so quickly,but the board deemed it good business

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So the club shouldn't sell anyone or let them leave on a free..... I reckon you should be our new DOF :lol:

 

Not too sure how you have come to that conclusion from me saying we chose to sell literally the whole side in such a short space of time.

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Liverpool dominating. They're going to win the CL.

 

I think you might be right. I guess it justifies fully why our better players left to join a club like them. It's going to be painful seeing Lovren with that beautiful trophy in his hands, and Nivea boy and VVD...

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Nope

 

Once Shaw deal was agreed I think it was a runaway train. Maybe you disagree.

 

Out of interest, what should we have done IYO with each of the players that left? Perhaps you can go through each. I will set the scene and perhaps you can advise how we should have handled each player negotiation. Maybe you only need to focus on Shaw. Keep him - not sure how that would have been possible - and that may have made a statement encouraging the rest to stay. Maybe only keeping Nik Nak would have made the difference? I am genuinely interested as to what the right path should have been. Even with hindsight I am unsure what we could have done.

 

Shaw - Agent informed Saints he wanted to leave. Offered record fee.

Lovren - asked to leave and informed club his heart was not in it (head was elsewhere)

Lallana - asked to leave, refused to play for club

Lambert - asked to leave, offered decent money for player on the wain

Chambers - offered huge money for player with 20 games under his belt

Morgan - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Wanyama - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Clyne - refused to sign new contract and expressed desire to leave

Pelle - offered reasonably large fee

Mane - asked to leave. offered big transfer fee

VVD - went on strike, sulked, didnt perform, offered record fee.

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Once Shaw deal was agreed I think it was a runaway train. Maybe you disagree.

 

Out of interest, what should we have done IYO with each of the players that left? Perhaps you can go through each. I will set the scene and perhaps you can advise how we should have handled each player negotiation. Maybe you only need to focus on Shaw. Keep him - not sure how that would have been possible - and that may have made a statement encouraging the rest to stay. Maybe only keeping Nik Nak would have made the difference? I am genuinely interested as to what the right path should have been. Even with hindsight I am unsure what we could have done.

 

Shaw - Agent informed Saints he wanted to leave. Offered record fee.

Lovren - asked to leave and informed club his heart was not in it (head was elsewhere)

Lallana - asked to leave, refused to play for club

Lambert - asked to leave, offered decent money for player on the wain

Chambers - offered huge money for player with 20 games under his belt

Morgan - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Wanyama - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Clyne - refused to sign new contract and expressed desire to leave

Pelle - offered reasonably large fee

Mane - asked to leave. offered big transfer fee

VVD - went on strike, sulked, didnt perform, offered record fee.

 

Spot on.

 

Could you add.

 

AOC - Asked to leave, sold by Cortese

 

 

 

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Once Shaw deal was agreed I think it was a runaway train. Maybe you disagree.

 

Out of interest, what should we have done IYO with each of the players that left? Perhaps you can go through each. I will set the scene and perhaps you can advise how we should have handled each player negotiation. Maybe you only need to focus on Shaw. Keep him - not sure how that would have been possible - and that may have made a statement encouraging the rest to stay. Maybe only keeping Nik Nak would have made the difference? I am genuinely interested as to what the right path should have been. Even with hindsight I am unsure what we could have done.

 

Shaw - Agent informed Saints he wanted to leave. Offered record fee.

Lovren - asked to leave and informed club his heart was not in it (head was elsewhere)

Lallana - asked to leave, refused to play for club

Lambert - asked to leave, offered decent money for player on the wain

Chambers - offered huge money for player with 20 games under his belt

Morgan - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Wanyama - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Clyne - refused to sign new contract and expressed desire to leave

Pelle - offered reasonably large fee

Mane - asked to leave. offered big transfer fee

VVD - went on strike, sulked, didnt perform, offered record fee.

 

Looking forward to his response so we can model our future negotiations better.. ;)

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Once Shaw deal was agreed I think it was a runaway train. Maybe you disagree.

 

Out of interest, what should we have done IYO with each of the players that left? Perhaps you can go through each. I will set the scene and perhaps you can advise how we should have handled each player negotiation. Maybe you only need to focus on Shaw. Keep him - not sure how that would have been possible - and that may have made a statement encouraging the rest to stay. Maybe only keeping Nik Nak would have made the difference? I am genuinely interested as to what the right path should have been. Even with hindsight I am unsure what we could have done.

 

Shaw - Agent informed Saints he wanted to leave. Offered record fee.

Lovren - asked to leave and informed club his heart was not in it (head was elsewhere)

Lallana - asked to leave, refused to play for club

Lambert - asked to leave, offered decent money for player on the wain

Chambers - offered huge money for player with 20 games under his belt

Morgan - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Wanyama - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Clyne - refused to sign new contract and expressed desire to leave

Pelle - offered reasonably large fee

Mane - asked to leave. offered big transfer fee

VVD - went on strike, sulked, didnt perform, offered record fee.

 

Lallana. If we said no. What would he have done?

Pelle. Did not replace

Mane. Not really a huge offer given sissoko went to spurs for almost the same amount. Could have kept on like Morgan and Vic.

Chambers. Could have kept if we wish

Same with shaw but the point is, no other club have had to sell their whole side in about 3 years without being under massive financial, club endangerment pressure.

 

 

 

Not one. Unless we are the bestest ever to have finish top 8 a few times on the bounce, then all of this was the clubs doing. FFS, Les told us all enough times

 

 

 

We sold literally a whole first team squad in about 3 years ffs.

Edited by Batman
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I am not sure what could have been done. My question is: why have the Saints been raided from top to bottom and lost every top performer. Other clubs lose one or two, even Arsenal (Sanchez) ManU (Ronaldo) Liverpool (Sterling) couldn't keep every one. But has any team ever been raped the way we have?

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I am not sure what could have been done. My question is: why have the Saints been raided from top to bottom and lost every top performer. Other clubs lose one or two, even Arsenal (Sanchez) ManU (Ronaldo) Liverpool (Sterling) couldn't keep every one. But has any team ever been raped the way we have?

 

Monaco.

 

I think part of it is having enough good players to get noticed. Stoke for instance kept hold of Bojan and Shaquiri because they have Tadic levels of consistency .

 

If we stay up, by some miracle, only Bertrand,Cedric and Lemina would have a good enough reputation to move upwards, wether they have earned it this season or not!

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Lallana. If we said no. What would he have done?

Pelle. Did not replace

Mane. Not really a huge offer given sissoko went to spurs for almost the same amount. Could have kept on like Morgan and Vic.

Chambers. Could have kept if we wish

Same with shaw but the point is, no other club have had to sell their whole side in about 3 years without being under massive financial, club endangerment pressure.

 

 

 

Not one. Unless we are the bestest ever to have finish top 8 a few times on the bounce, then all of this was the clubs doing. FFS, Les told us all enough times

 

 

 

We sold literally a whole first team squad in about 3 years ffs.

 

gonna attempt to reply to each of your responses...

 

Lallana: well we could have said no, but that would mean missing out on the £18m we received for him... players have all the power and him being disgruntled would have meant less money to spend...

Pelle: did replace in Austin- we also bought Gabbiadini, had Long, and then bought Carrillo. however blame the sh*t scouting for that.

Mane: yeah we should have held out for more, but remember Salah only cost £38m in 2017, but we could not have let him stay one more year because then he would have only had 1 year left on his contract (meaning we make next to no money)- and when it gets to that stage of making a player see out his contract a lot of players stop playing properly so they don't get injured when they look for their new club + their heart is not in it... see Sanchez at Arsenal as one example. so we sold because we'd rather bank the cash and probably had to... again, replacements poor in boufal. (I still maintain that Redmond was bought to replace Juanmi)

Chambers: the only one we were right to sell, £16m- Arsenal bought potential for that money and he has not fulfilled it. no we did not have to sell but we had clyne to give us an extra year anyway...

 

So you say we didn't have to sell- but unfortunately a lot of our 2015 and 2016 sales we did due to contract lengths (see Clyne, Mane and Wanyama as examples)... and we've seen whats happened when we offered all our current players bumper 5 year contracts- it looks like they lose all motivation to go further themselves... unfortunately players have too much power and it is a true shame that some of them can straight up refuse to play.

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I am not sure what could have been done. My question is: why have the Saints been raided from top to bottom and lost every top performer. Other clubs lose one or two, even Arsenal (Sanchez) ManU (Ronaldo) Liverpool (Sterling) couldn't keep every one. But has any team ever been raped the way we have?

 

well those clubs you have mentioned are still top 6! they will obviously be affected less!!!!!

only example I can give would be Dortmund in Germany

 

theyve lost Lewandowski, Gundogan, Gotze, Mkhitaryan, Blasckoyski, Hummels,Sahin, Kagawa, Hummels, Aubameyang, Ousmane Dembele in the past 5 years.. however the reason they can do it because germany is not as competitive and with the money they rake it they can buy the bigger stars from the lesser clubs in Germany.

 

we however could not go and buy Zaha from Palace or Shaqiri from Stoke, as an example.

 

however malaga has been relegated this season, and they too have lost a lot of stars in last 5 years. ultimately, its all a football food chain.

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Appreciate you responding. You didn't provide replies for them all. Also the response for Pelle has nothing to do with how the club handled player negotiations.

 

Lallana. If we said no. What would he have done?
I believe we did say no. He promptly said he would never play for the club again. Are you saying we should have just shrugged our shoulders and said "see your contract fella"? Might have worked. The question is, would he have given his all if we denied him the move? It certainly seemed to get ugly that summer. My guess is the club felt he had "gone" already. By the time the club gets the offer from Liverpool negotiations with players have been wrapped up.

 

Pelle. Did not replace

what about the transfer negotiation, Should we have done that differently?

 

Mane. Not really a huge offer given sissoko went to spurs for almost the same amount. Could have kept on like Morgan and Vic.
Decent offer. Sounded quite large at the time. Actually it sounded about right. He had two years left on his contract. Let that wind down and watch the value drop as it did with Clyne. We could have offered a new deal, maybe we did, but he wasn't going to sign it. Liverpool were talking with his agent around 6 months before he moved I suspect? Spurs overpaid massively by the way.

 

Chambers. Could have kept if we wish
You are right. I don't understand why we let him go. Strongest fullback pairing in the league at that time. Should only have allowed him to once Clyne signed an extended contract. His struggles at Arsenal have `let us off' somewhat.

 

Same with shaw but the point is, no other club have had to sell their whole side in about 3 years without being under massive financial, club endangerment pressure.
Shaw is the key for me. Keep him and the other players may have followed suit. But how do you say `no you are not going to manchester united on a double your money contract'?

 

We sold literally a whole first team squad in about 3 years ffs.
Perfect storm. Lots of young and bloody top notch players at a `small premiership club' (not my words) at the same time (with some very desperate under performing big clubs) that proved they were good by getting us high in the league. Once you sold one, then the whole `united journey to the CL' ends and everyone sees the bright lights elsewhere. Clubs of our size just don't create and buy that sort of talent. Usually you have a good player, sell him and replace with ****. We replaced with top performers that were also desired. It was like a domino rally. Each player saying - you sold X last summer, so why not me?

 

I am not sure you have explained how you would have kept these players. The `just say no' option seems simplistic. In reality was the only option to have given Shaw £100k a week and then done the same with all the others? £5.2m a year for each player (its more with NI). 20 players on that is still less than our wage bill now, so might have been the way forward, although the television money has grown since then to be fair

Edited by Chez
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well those clubs you have mentioned are still top 6! they will obviously be affected less!!!!!

only example I can give would be Dortmund in Germany

 

theyve lost Lewandowski, Gundogan, Gotze, Mkhitaryan, Blasckoyski, Hummels,Sahin, Kagawa, Hummels, Aubameyang, Ousmane Dembele in the past 5 years.. however the reason they can do it because germany is not as competitive and with the money they rake it they can buy the bigger stars from the lesser clubs in Germany.

 

we however could not go and buy Zaha from Palace or Shaqiri from Stoke, as an example.

 

however malaga has been relegated this season, and they too have lost a lot of stars in last 5 years. ultimately, its all a football food chain.

 

Also Dortmund themselves are a bloody huge club and very near the top of the German/European football pyramid. Unlike us.

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Also Dortmund themselves are a bloody huge club and very near the top of the German/European football pyramid. Unlike us.

 

yeah yeah exactly the point I am basically making! all the other clubs like Ajax, Dortmund, Sevilla, Athletico etc etc are all massive clubs in their countries that can buy talent from the smaller clubs in their leagues... hence why they have basically no risk of relegation as they are buying players proven for their leagues already. Impossible for us.

 

we on the other hand attempt risky business with these foreign imports and ultimately at some point if it is not consistently right will bite you...

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Once Shaw deal was agreed I think it was a runaway train. Maybe you disagree.

 

Out of interest, what should we have done IYO with each of the players that left? Perhaps you can go through each. I will set the scene and perhaps you can advise how we should have handled each player negotiation. Maybe you only need to focus on Shaw. Keep him - not sure how that would have been possible - and that may have made a statement encouraging the rest to stay. Maybe only keeping Nik Nak would have made the difference? I am genuinely interested as to what the right path should have been. Even with hindsight I am unsure what we could have done.

 

Shaw - Agent informed Saints he wanted to leave. Offered record fee.

Lovren - asked to leave and informed club his heart was not in it (head was elsewhere)

Lallana - asked to leave, refused to play for club

Lambert - asked to leave, offered decent money for player on the wain

Chambers - offered huge money for player with 20 games under his belt

Morgan - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Wanyama - asked to leave, kept sweet by saying he could go following year

Clyne - refused to sign new contract and expressed desire to leave

Pelle - offered reasonably large fee

Mane - asked to leave. offered big transfer fee

VVD - went on strike, sulked, didnt perform, offered record fee.

 

As a matter of interest, how do you know all this 'information'? A lot of it would have involved contract negotiations behind closed doors between Les Reed, the players and their agents.

 

I remember very similar stories about Koeman and Fonte and in fact just about everyone else Les Reed wanted to sell or get rid of. So, who exactly is is the source of all these rumours about players and managers, whcih many fans on here seem to take as gospel? I also heard that Les wanted to sell van Dijk in the summer but that Gao wouldn't pay Kat for the club if any more players were sold before he took over, presumably because he wanted his slice of the action. Yet, we heard stories about Les making a bold stand against Liverpool.

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As a matter of interest, how do you know all this 'information'? A lot of it would have involved contract negotiations behind closed doors between Les Reed, the players and their agents.

 

I remember very similar stories about Koeman and Fonte and in fact just about everyone else Les Reed wanted to sell or get rid of. So, who exactly is is the source of all these rumours about players and managers, whcih many fans on here seem to take as gospel? I also heard that Les wanted to sell van Dijk in the summer but that Gao wouldn't pay Kat for the club if any more players were sold before he took over, presumably because he wanted his slice of the action. Yet, we heard stories about Les making a bold stand against Liverpool.

 

Are you suggesting all these players were desperate to stay and Les forced them to sign for the likes of Liverpool, Man U and Spurs?

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As a matter of interest, how do you know all this 'information'?
Not sure which part you have doubts about, but pretty much all this information is in the public domain.

 

Lambert requested to leave

https://southamptonfc.com/news/2014-06-02/statement-player-interest--rickie-lambert

 

Lovren - head gone

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/dejan-lovren-head-already-liverpool-7378180

 

Wanyama - asked to leave, had to be dropped as head wasn't right

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11700/9974682/victor-wanyama-staying-at-southampton-as-tottenham-miss-out

 

Morgan - mentally not fit to play

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/southampton/11027060/Southamptons-Morgan-Schneiderlin-faces-threat-of-fine-if-he-refuses-to-make-himself-available-for-Liverpool-game.html

You may have seen his tweets also perhaps that we scathin gof the club for not allowing him to leave

 

Lallana threatens strike

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/386823/REVEALED-Angry-Adam-Lallana-made-Southampton-threats-to-push-through-Liverpool-move

 

Clyne - offered contract

http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/13353201.Liverpool_table_new_bid_for_Southampton_s_Nathaniel_Clyne/

 

VVD refuses to play

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/van-dijk-southampton-liverpool-transfer-10847224

 

 

I guess that just leaves Mane and Shaw. If you think either were touted around as apposed to them being tapped up then you are mistaken.

Edited by Chez
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Lambert was being sold to West Ham in Jan but NC left so he was looking to leave at the end of the season.

Chambers was bid for by Arsenal in Jan and left at the end on the season as they were keen to buy him.

Lallana etc were influenced by MP who allegedly told them that they should move to better clubs as after NC left the club's ambitions changed / financial constraints meant that the club would be mid table at best.

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Lambert was being sold to West Ham in Jan but NC left so he was looking to leave at the end of the season.

Chambers was bid for by Arsenal in Jan and left at the end on the season as they were keen to buy him.

Lallana etc were influenced by MP who allegedly told them that they should move to better clubs as after NC left the club's ambitions changed / financial constraints meant that the club would be mid table at best.

 

Don’t you mean after the clubs ambitions / financial constraints changed NC jumped ship along with the other rats?

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Are you suggesting all these players were desperate to stay and Les forced them to sign for the likes of Liverpool, Man U and Spurs?

 

No, things are not as childish and simplistic as that, which is why I haven't said it, whereas the statements I quoted are listed as if they are established 'facts'

 

without anyone stopping to question who the source was or what their motive was for feeding such stories to the press.

 

 

Les Reed seems to have fallen out with just about every manager, coach, scout and player who was doing a good job for the club so it's hardly surprising they either

 

leave of their own accord or get nudged out. Of course, going to a bigger club is attractive to most of them so it often suits them very well too. But, the club's modus

 

operandi has been to produce players from the Academy or talent spot them abroad so that they can be sold for a profit to rival clubs (which presumably is the vision

 

of a cash cow that Kat managed to sell to Gao).

 

 

It wouldn't be good PR to simply tell the fans that (although some of us might appreciate the honesty) so we get this constant stream of rumours about players

 

'sulking', 'threatening to go on strike', 'thinking they are billy big ********', how 'the other players will be glad to see the back of them' etc etc, being fed to the internet

 

and the press with the effect that some fans have been successfully convinced that the board and owner really wanted to keep them and weren't motivated by money

 

at all whereas I think players like Mane, Wanyama and van Dijk weren't bought with the intention of them having a long-term career at our club but rather as business

 

investments to be sold for profit to other clubs.

 

 

The board has been so focussed on making money, with players viewed as no more than stock, that it has neglected building a football team. Successful teams usually

 

have a large nucleus of good players who have played together for many years; with our club's revolving door policy, we don't.

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Come on Roma!!!!!

 

Hope VVD gives away a pen and gets sent off

 

Would hate to see them get to the final

I would love to see them get to the final, and see an ex Saints player score the winning goal. Come on Gareth Bale..!

 

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I would love to see them get to the final, and see an ex Saints player score the winning goal. Come on Gareth Bale..!

 

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

 

I kind of want Mo Salah to win the Balon D’or in all honesty- but hate Liverpool.

 

3-3 in the final with Mo Salah hat trick and 3 Lovren own goals before RM win on penalties would do nicely.

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I kind of want Mo Salah to win the Balon D’or in all honesty- but hate Liverpool.

 

3-3 in the final with Mo Salah hat trick and 3 Lovren own goals before RM win on penalties would do nicely.

And Lovren taking the deciding penalty like this:

 

dejan-lovren-penalty-kick-miss-besiktas-liverpool.gif

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What's happened to that rat faced little ****? He'll be at West Ham in a year or two. Couldn't give a ****e about the others but I particularly wish him a career ending injury.

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