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adrian lord

By adrian lord,
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skintsaint

skintsaint

Posted
Posted
I suppose this is like the Puel debate..what measures success? Bearing in mind Spurs haven't won a title in nearly 60 years, bearing in mind that Spurs income is significantly less than Any of the other of the top 6, bearing in mind they have spent nothing compared to clubs they are finishing above, I would say he has done a brilliant job to make then a permanent top 4 team. Meanwhile over in Manchester they have spent the best part of a billion pounds in a short time to get in front of MP's team!

 

Are trophies the only measure of success? If so Brendon is clocking up a few so he must be up there with the best of them? When Poch is Barce or Real Madrid manager winning trophies each season will that make him a better manager than he is now?

 

Spurs have had a top team with top players for a few years now. I would say their team is stronger than Chelseas that won the league last season, just Conte got Chelsea to perform. Thats what I would measure his performance on.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
I suppose this is like the Puel debate..what measures success? Bearing in mind Spurs haven't won a title in nearly 60 years, bearing in mind that Spurs income is significantly less than Any of the other of the top 6, bearing in mind they have spent nothing compared to clubs they are finishing above, I would say he has done a brilliant job to make then a permanent top 4 team. Meanwhile over in Manchester they have spent the best part of a billion pounds in a short time to get in front of MP's team!

 

 

 

Are trophies the only measure of success? If so Brendon is clocking up a few so he must be up there with the best of them? When Poch is Barce or Real Madrid manager winning trophies each season will that make him a better manager than he is now?

 

 

As a manager trophies are the only measure of success who wants to be remembered as the best manager never to win anything?

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Ultimatt

Ultimatt

Posted
Posted
As a manager trophies are the only measure of success who wants to be remembered as the best manager never to win anything?

 

It's no different to players, anyone involved in sport wants to win, so does that make Le Tiss a nobody? Trophies aren't the only measure. Take Allardyce, he'll never be rated with the best but he's had a lot of success keeping clubs up. Poch is still young and i'd be surprised if Spurs are the biggest club he'll manage.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
It's no different to players, anyone involved in sport wants to win, so does that make Le Tiss a nobody? Trophies aren't the only measure. Take Allardyce, he'll never be rated with the best but he's had a lot of success keeping clubs up. Poch is still young and i'd be surprised if Spurs are the biggest club he'll manage.

 

 

Players are slightly different imo but matty will probably never be considered one of the best ( outside of saints fans) because he spent his whole career with us.

 

Allardyce has a reputation as a long ball hoof merchant who can keep teams up. I doubt many would consider him great or a particularly successful manager. He will of course probably be the only ever England manager with a 100% win record..

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SKD

SKD

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Ask the players who have played under Poch 90% of them will tell you he's the best they've played for.

 

He is one of, if not the best, manager / coach in the world.

 

He knows where his bread is buttered and whilst winning cups may be a big pull for fans, commercially for clubs the CL / PL is much more of an achievement.

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
Ask the players who have played under Poch 90% of them will tell you he's the best they've played for.

 

He is one of, if not the best, manager / coach in the world.

 

He knows where his bread is buttered and whilst winning cups may be a big pull for fans, commercially for clubs the CL / PL is much more of an achievement.

 

 

We know the players love him but being popular with your players doesn't make you the best manager in the world are you seriously suggesting he is better than Pep for example?

 

Poch is a good manager but in less he adds trophies to that he can't ever be considered one of the best in the world.

 

In sport you can be good but to be truly great you have to win stuff.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
We know the players love him but being popular with your players doesn't make you the best manager in the world are you seriously suggesting he is better than Pep for example?

 

Poch is a good manager but in less he adds trophies to that he can't ever be considered one of the best in the world.

 

In sport you can be good but to be truly great you have to win stuff.

 

I do appreciate what you are saying and to go down a 'great/legend' you are probably right, but as it stands in this day and age Poch is currently one of the best.

 

Poch will win stuff, in time. It's being one of the best managers in the world that will land him a job at Real Madrid, where he will win sh!t loads, probably as much as Pep if not more.

 

Pep has managed the biggest clubs in the world, Poch hasn't had that opportunity yet so it is difficult to judge, if i'm honest. IMHO, I believe him and Pep to be very similar managers in terms of style and philosophy ect...

 

What has Pep won since coming to the PL and having one of the largest budgets of all clubs??

 

Wining trophies is all relevant - are you suggesting that someone like Roberto Di Matteo or Roberto Mancini are better than Poch because they've won more than him (CL and PL respectively)?

 

The reality is Poch is pretty early in his managerial career and I truly believe he will go on to achieve great things (hopefully as England manager). If you were Tottenham, who could you realistically appoint who's better than him? Again IMO, if he was appointed Chelsea / United / Liverpool manager tomorrow, he'd instantly improve them.

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Saint86

Saint86

Posted
Posted
I do appreciate what you are saying and to go down a 'great/legend' you are probably right, but as it stands in this day and age Poch is currently one of the best.

 

Poch will win stuff, in time. It's being one of the best managers in the world that will land him a job at Real Madrid, where he will win sh!t loads, probably as much as Pep if not more.

 

Pep has managed the biggest clubs in the world, Poch hasn't had that opportunity yet so it is difficult to judge, if i'm honest. IMHO, I believe him and Pep to be very similar managers in terms of style and philosophy ect...

 

What has Pep won since coming to the PL and having one of the largest budgets of all clubs??

 

Wining trophies is all relevant - are you suggesting that someone like Roberto Di Matteo or Roberto Mancini are better than Poch because they've won more than him (CL and PL respectively)?

 

The reality is Poch is pretty early in his managerial career and I truly believe he will go on to achieve great things (hopefully as England manager). If you were Tottenham, who could you realistically appoint who's better than him? Again IMO, if he was appointed Chelsea / United / Liverpool manager tomorrow, he'd instantly improve them.

 

For me Poch is the better manager.

 

Pep struggled massively with city last year, and failed to match any expectations set for him. The solution - chuck shed loads of dosh around all over the place to get the players and buy success. Pep has been to Bayern, Barca and City - and he has had the league's best squad at each of them.

 

Poch has never had those luxuries and yet his team is still on par with pep's.

 

Poch is the better manager.

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
Again IMO, if he was appointed Chelsea / United / Liverpool manager tomorrow, he'd instantly improve them.

 

What’s with the love in for the Argie,talk about blinkered.

 

At roughly the same age Josè Mourinho had already won 2 champions leagues, & the premier league. Yet Poch could improve his present team instantly. Conte took a team from mid table to champions in one season, yet Poch would “improve them instantly”. Shame he couldn’t improve Spurs from second, sorry third , in the same season. I know you wet your pants over the love his players have for him, but they’re in the main younger willing players. He hasn’t managed too many global super stars or clubs that come with real pressure ,and until he does and can not be considered a great manager.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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shurlock

shurlock

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Posted
What’s with the love in for the Argie,talk about blinkered.

 

At roughly the same age Josè Mourinho had already won 2 champions leagues, & the premier league. Yet Poch could improve his present team instantly. Conte took a team from mid table to champions in one season, yet Poch would “improve them instantly”. Shame he couldn’t improve Spurs from second, sorry third , in the same season. I know you wet your pants over the love his players have for him, but they’re in the main younger willing players. He hasn’t managed too many global super stars or clubs that come with real pressure ,and until he does and can not be considered a great manager.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Nice strawman, Lord P.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
What’s with the love in for the Argie,talk about blinkered.

 

At roughly the same age Josè Mourinho had already won 2 champions leagues, & the premier league. Yet Poch could improve his present team instantly. Conte took a team from mid table to champions in one season, yet Poch would “improve them instantly”. Shame he couldn’t improve Spurs from second, sorry third , in the same season. I know you wet your pants over the love his players have for him, but they’re in the main younger willing players. He hasn’t managed too many global super stars or clubs that come with real pressure ,and until he does and can not be considered a great manager.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Well done, you've just proven my point - Jose (Porto aside which was an amazing achievement, probably on par if Spurs win CL this year), Conte, Pep all won stuff with a superstar squad. How many of those can you say have taken had faith in and improved young talent? Probably only Pep.

 

If you consider budgets should Chelsea not have finished above Tottenham?

 

Lets get things straight, I'm not suggest he is 'great' or that he'll go down in history, all i'm saying is that currently, he is one of the best managers around.

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Dark Munster

Dark Munster

Posted
Posted
I suppose this is like the Puel debate..what measures success? Bearing in mind Spurs haven't won a title in nearly 60 years, bearing in mind that Spurs income is significantly less than Any of the other of the top 6, bearing in mind they have spent nothing compared to clubs they are finishing above, I would say he has done a brilliant job to make then a permanent top 4 team. Meanwhile over in Manchester they have spent the best part of a billion pounds in a short time to get in front of MP's team!

 

Are trophies the only measure of success? If so Brendon is clocking up a few so he must be up there with the best of them? When Poch is Barce or Real Madrid manager winning trophies each season will that make him a better manager than he is now?

For big clubs, yes. Spurs are a big club, and currently have a superb squad (I feel dirty saying that), led by Kane (who Poch was reluctant to play when he was first there). So being in the top 4 is hardly a managerial miracle (unlike Leicester's unbelievable season ... incidentally denying that "brilliant" manager Poch yet another trophy).

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
Led by Kane (who Poch was reluctant to play when he was first there)

 

Kanes career before Poch arrived at Tottenham:

 

10/11 - 18 apps 3 goals (Leyton Orient in L1)

11/12 - 27 apps 9 goals (Millwall in Championship)

12/13 - 5 apps 0 goals (Norwich in PL) & 15 apps 2 goals (Leicester in Championship)

13/14 - 19 apps 4 goals (Spurs under AVB/Sherwood)

 

Compared to that under Poch:

 

14/15 - 51 apps 31 goals

15/16 - 50 apps 28 goals

16/17 - 38 apps 35 goals

 

Given his weak record before Poch, you would be forgiven if you questioned if he had what it takes to make it at the top level. Also, given his drastic upturn in form, you could also say that an element of this is perhaps down to Poch?

 

I could also name a number of players at us who he managed to get the best out of.....

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ericb

ericb

Posted
Posted

Poch is one of the best managers in the game, i'm amazed people can't actually see that, it's proper red and white blinkers if you think otherwise. Like SKD said he's improved Spurs immensely and put them in a position where they "might" win the league at some point if he stays. Something which a club the size of Spurs couldn't really dream of (yeah the 60s and all that i know, but they're not a big club compared to Liverpool or United, and not a money club like Chelsea or City, and arguably smaller than Arsenal).

 

I actually think he might go to Barcelona not Real, if you look at what he does he fits their philosophy perfectly. He loves using the academy over big signings, he loves passing football and he knows the city well.

 

I think anyone that watched him manage us knew how good he was, he transformed the side in less than six months and laid the ground work for Koeman, who i don't think would've had anywhere near the same success had Poch not come before.

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
Kanes career before Poch arrived at Tottenham:

 

10/11 - 18 apps 3 goals (Leyton Orient in L1)

11/12 - 27 apps 9 goals (Millwall in Championship)

12/13 - 5 apps 0 goals (Norwich in PL) & 15 apps 2 goals (Leicester in Championship)

13/14 - 19 apps 4 goals (Spurs under AVB/Sherwood)

 

Compared to that under Poch:

 

14/15 - 51 apps 31 goals

15/16 - 50 apps 28 goals

16/17 - 38 apps 35 goals

 

Given his weak record before Poch, you would be forgiven if you questioned if he had what it takes to make it at the top level. Also, given his drastic upturn in form, you could also say that an element of this is perhaps down to Poch?

 

I could also name a number of players at us who he managed to get the best out of.....

 

He was happy to let Kane go. He kept scoring in Europa league etc so eventually accepted he had to pick him. Who knows where he’d be if other forwards weren’t injured?

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whelk

whelk

Posted
Posted
Poch is one of the best managers in the game, i'm amazed people can't actually see that, it's proper red and white blinkers if you think otherwise. Like SKD said he's improved Spurs immensely and put them in a position where they "might" win the league at some point if he stays. Something which a club the size of Spurs couldn't really dream of (yeah the 60s and all that i know, but they're not a big club compared to Liverpool or United, and not a money club like Chelsea or City, and arguably smaller than Arsenal).

 

I actually think he might go to Barcelona not Real, if you look at what he does he fits their philosophy perfectly. He loves using the academy over big signings, he loves passing football and he knows the city well.

 

I think anyone that watched him manage us knew how good he was, he transformed the side in less than six months and laid the ground work for Koeman, who i don't think would've had anywhere near the same success had Poch not come before.

 

This is defector’s watch though where we like to make fun. Don’t think many accept he isn’t a good coach. Funny that he doesn’t win things but part his fault as he mocks the FA and League cups. Other big clubs don’t

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Lord Duckhunter

Lord Duckhunter

Posted
Posted
Well done, you've just proven my point - Jose (Porto aside which was an amazing achievement, probably on par if Spurs win CL this year), Conte, Pep all won stuff with a superstar squad. How many of those can you say have taken had faith in and improved young talent? Probably only Pep.

 

If you consider budgets should Chelsea not have finished above Tottenham?

 

Lets get things straight, I'm not suggest he is 'great' or that he'll go down in history, all i'm saying is that currently, he is one of the best managers around.

 

You said he would “instantly improve “ Man utd and Chelsea. Budgets don’t make a blind bit of difference to that statement.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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SKD

SKD

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You said he would “instantly improve “ Man utd and Chelsea. Budgets don’t make a blind bit of difference to that statement.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

He improves players, stick him charge of United and watch how Rashford for example, goes from good to exceptional... similar to Kane. That won’t happen under Jose.

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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted (edited)
Rubbish, he didn’t lay the ground work for Koeman anymore than Nigel did for him.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I don’t think you appreciate the feel good factor around the club (from playing staff to tea lady) when poch was here. Something that was lost somewhat when he left.

 

I don’t know if he laid the groundwork’s, but he’s was a highly influential manager whilst at saints.

Edited by SKD
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whelk

whelk

Posted
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Remember that the feel good factor 'from tea lady to playing staff' was also in the days of the much maligned Nicola who brought Poch. When Nicola left, Poch said the project he came to build was finished and he left too

 

Remember Sunderland in the cup you soppy tw at

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CB Fry

CB Fry

Posted
Posted
I don’t think you appreciate the feel good factor around the club (from playing staff to tea lady) when poch was here. Something that was lost somewhat when he left.

 

I don’t know if he laid the groundwork’s, but he’s was a highly influential manager whilst at saints.

 

Don't think you appreciate the club went from strength to strength after he'd gone, on and off the pitch. 7th, then 6th plus improvements on commercial fronts as well.

 

I know some people didn't get their little dream scenario of the club going to sh it after their heroes had gone but history will show, forever, that it simply didn't happen. Strength to strength.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
He improves players, stick him charge of United and watch how Rashford for example, goes from good to exceptional... similar to Kane. That won’t happen under Jose.

 

Or stick him in charge of Everton and see how he too will struggle without a reliable goal scorer in the squad.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted (edited)
Rubbish, he didn’t lay the ground work for Koeman anymore than Nigel did for him.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Pony.

 

He did in the sense that he added millions to some of our players value, giving Koeman a substantial budget to rebuild with. Lallana went from a player that people wanted to drop and felt wouldn’t make the step up to a regular England international and a £25m man (probably £50m+ in today’s money). And yes he did a leave a number of players improved -you might say that the likes of Schneiderlin were already on an upwards trajectory, though I’d argue he kicked on under MP (as the player himself admits). With others like Fonte, the improvement was even more obvious.

Edited by shurlock
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SKD

SKD

Posted
Posted
The swooning over ex managers and players on here is vomit inducing...

Everyone's brilliant when they've gone

 

Nope... shaw, Lovren, Jay, Lambert, Morgan and Fonte have all been pretty ****.

 

The correlation between them all is that they were at their peak under poch :suspicious:

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
Nope... shaw, Lovren, Jay, Lambert, Morgan and Fonte have all been pretty ****.

 

The correlation between them all is that they were at their peak under poch :suspicious:

 

Lambert peaked under Adkins, he was getting on a bit under Poch.

Morgan and Fonte were equally as good under Koeman.

Shaw and Lovren only played for Poch here, so there is no reference point for them.

Jay's injury has more to do with his form that Poch. If he could be that good again for £15m, Spurs would have snapped him up.

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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
The swooning over ex managers and players on here is vomit inducing...

Everyone's brilliant when they've gone

 

And you’d rather swim across the Ganges open-mouthed than be objective and give any of our former managers and players credit. Vomit-inducing indeed pal.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted
The reference point for all these guys is how they've fared since leaving Saints, ie pretty badly.

 

Morgan had a very good season under Koeman, Fonte had two. Both of them improved under Poch but they didn't falter when he left, it wasn't until THEY left the club that they began to struggle.

 

I've no doubt Poch got the best out of that squad but I wouldn't say that the peaked because of his management. Shaw just hasn't worked out at Man Utd, he's had his own problems with fitness and his relationship with Mourinho. Lovren is in a Liverpool team which just can't get it right defensively. They've gone from deluding themselves into thinking Gerrard can be Makelele, simply because he was getting old and slow, to Can and Henderson, who are just plain average.

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DuncanRG

DuncanRG

Posted
Posted

He will, of course, win trophies, but I'm not sure that's required to prove yourself as more than decent. We'll see how he does when he gets to the top, but ending Spurs' decades of underachievement and turning them into title challengers is more than decent.

 

Really don't get the anger towards him. Ulike Koeman, he never moralised about loyalty or said he would stay. I think people were angry because they knew how good he was and felt shortchanged by only getting a season and a half from him.

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Saint-Fred

Saint-Fred

Posted
Posted
He will, of course, win trophies, but I'm not sure that's required to prove yourself as more than decent. We'll see how he does when he gets to the top, but ending Spurs' decades of underachievement and turning them into title challengers is more than decent.

 

Really don't get the anger towards him. Ulike Koeman, he never moralised about loyalty or said he would stay. I think people were angry because they knew how good he was and felt shortchanged by only getting a season and a half from him.

 

I thought 8th and a cup final made a manager "world class"...I am afraid I am just lost on what makes a manager good or not now!

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Badger

Badger

Posted
Posted
I am not angry with Poch, I am angry we forced NC out and Poch followed, they would have been dynamic pairing, one off the field one on

 

Don't know if you are serious or just on a wind up, but don't think NC was "forced out", as far as I read it he left of his own accord as he didn't want to be accountable to the owner whose money he was looking to spend.

 

Show me an organisation where such a practice is allowed to exist.

 

Yes it was a great shame the journey came to an end, but we'd have been another Leeds under Ridsdale if NC was allowed to operate entirely unchecked.

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ALWAYS_SFC

ALWAYS_SFC

Posted
Posted
And you’d rather swim across the Ganges open-mouthed than be objective and give any of our former managers and players credit. Vomit-inducing indeed pal.

 

Still trying to become popular by being "clever and funny", but failing miserably at both and trying so hard too...bless

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Miltonaggro

Miltonaggro

Posted
Posted
Lovren got death threats against his family after his performance against Spurs. What a nice collection of supporters. I wonder if he has considered moving his head to an alternative location.

 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/41818083

 

Yet another thing Liverpool have a proud history of - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-308410/Gerrards-U-turn-threats-family.html

 

The good news is that if they eventually do murder a player they will undoubtedly light a candle for him as a precursor to martyrdom.

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Lighthouse

Lighthouse

Posted
Posted

Basically he is trying to deflect attention from his own hilarious performance on the pitch by posting a ‘death threat’ probably made by a 13 year old, spotty virgin on his mum’s laptop. He will probably p*ss his pants and start crying when the police turn up to his house for a chat (the kid, not Lovren).

 

I doubt there is a celebrity on Earth who hasn’t received a death threat thanks to the wonders of social media. Quit fishing for sympathy Dejan, you dreamed of playing for these World famous, passionate fans. YNWA etc.

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