Two question that those crucifying the board need to answer

[Rasiak-9-]

What an utter load of rubbish. No other club would let themselves get pillaged in this manner.

 

Really? Put the case that our players, manager, results and final league position last year were instead, those of either Hull, Stoke, West Ham or Sunderland and tell me precisely what they'd have been able to do in our position?

 

Following on from that scenario; put YOURSELF in the shoes of one of the players who are leaving, except that you play for one of the above (I'm presuming none of us could really care less about Sunderland or Hull for example). A more famous club, offering Champions League football comes in and makes you an offer to play for their first XI and on top of that, double your wages.

 

Tell me you'd honestly turn that down if you played for Hull, who had just finished 8th and who had just lost the chairman and manager who gave any sliver of hope to the audacious and unrealistic hope of building a Champions League-level club from a mid-table (at best) starting position, in this day and age of football.

 

Now I realise that many of you who agree with Baird's point of view will do everything you can to find a quick one-liner to avoid the question, or perhaps paint the hypothetical scenario I've thrown up as somehow illegitimate, or maybe even ignore it altogether and try and derail the thread.

 

Rest assured, any of the above will be seen by those of sound mind as little more than a stomp, a pout and a sulk that lets face it, of course our stupid board can't do anything. The problem is with the state of the game as a whole and if its any consolation, I don't think its impossible that fans will look back on the dismantling of our Southampton team as a point which marked the beginning of the end of English football being any realistic sort of competition.

 

The problem is with the state of money in football and its certainly not unique to us. Could have happened to anyone. Give yourself a break and try not to panic; its not enjoyable but there's no point desperately looking for someone to blame

 

(P.S Sorry to pick on you Baird but I'm just using your post as an example of the general consensus I'm arguing against)

[AussieDog]

I pretty much agree with all of your sentiments, with a couple of exceptions. Firstly, I don't think the majority of players moving have any sort of guarantee over a first team place. They are moving to become small fish in an even bigger pond with the POTENTIAL to become superstars. Most of us would do the same - especially with the "comfort" of doubling, tripling or even quadrupling your salary and being financially set up for life.

The other point is the Board COULD do something about it. Say NO. What are they all going to do, go on strike? I don't think so, and I think the majority of them know better than to not give 100% because of what it says about their character and their chances of a move to a top club when/if they let their contracts run down.

That's just my personal opinion, and I'm still drinking from a half-filled rather than half-empty glass (or maybe that should be a quarter filled glass, as my optimism is getting stretched further than it has ever been before), as I can't believe we would have invested in the management and coaching team, along with the 2 signings to date, like we have if there wasn't a plan in place.

One other point, and I know I mentioned it in another post when I said about Pochetino being an under-achiever, but maybe the consensus in the post season review was that, as talented as the players were, THEY under-achieved last year, and that now was the time and opportunity to rebuild.

Of course it would have been better if those plans had been shared, but I can imagine what the season ticket sales would have been like if they had asked people to spruke up their hard-earned cash on the belief and faith that we could totally dismantle and rebuild a team a few weeks before the start of the season. I guess that is the biggest problem I have after some of the statements that came out at the end of the season, as I would rather be kept in the dark than lied to (although I would much rather be told the truth!).

[oldskoolsi]

You can't force a player to stay but if you show genuine intent to improve (not just fan pandering statements) by getting a known manger to replace the departing one (which we did), signing current players to bigger contracts (which we haven't done bar Harrison reed I think) and buying new new players, not just to replace departing ones but to improve the squad (which we haven't done) then they will be less likely to want to leave.

[washsaint]

Unfortunately, right now, I don't think anyone could say the Board is doing a good job or even an adequate job. When we needed strong leadership they have exhibited none......players leaving (even en masse) I can deal with but not getting replacements in place first is criminal.

 

The current situation will have made making new signings that much harder as moving to Saints will be seen as a big risk.

 

Although we have some youngsters that might be able to fill some of the gaps (e.g. Reed, McQueen) we desperately need some quality signings and quickly. Clubs will be looking to charge us a premium and this is our fault: we should close deals and get ready for the new season or it will quickly become too late.

[Heisenberg]

One word.... EVERTON!

 

They have some top players, im sure they'd all like to leave for United, Man C and triple wages, but theyve sold none of them.

[70's Mike]

One word.... EVERTON!

 

They have some top players, im sure they'd all like to leave for United, Man C and triple wages, but theyve sold none of them.

 

its called balls or standing up to bullies

however if relationship between players and board was half as bad as some are saying then we have got what we deserved.

[adrian lord]

Titanic.

[BadgerBadger]

One word.... EVERTON!

 

They have some top players, im sure they'd all like to leave for United, Man C and triple wages, but theyve sold none of them.

 

But they still have their chairman and their manager

[CB Fry]

We couldn't keep them all, but we could have kept some.

 

And we should have kept Chambers, no question. Even if Koeman (if we believe he is being doggedly pragmatic about all this) said "let him go" then the board should have overruled him, for no other reason than it is has made us look utterly ridiculous. And, if (massive if) it turns out Chambers has threatened to go on strike/become untenable etc (a 19 yo right back with 20 odd games to his name, no less)...then sell on Sept 1st once we've signed some other freaking players. Sneak him out when (some of) the sh it has died down.

 

It's not like he's a must have marquee signing for Arsenal, just rent-a-Brit squad filler. They, and we, could have waited four weeks.

 

The "we can't stop them" routine collapsed completely with Chambers.

 

And Les says "determined to keep" yesterday. Beyond a joke. Let's just get Morgan and Jay out the door already and knuckle down for a season of strife.

[Rasiak-9-]

One word.... EVERTON!

 

They have some top players, im sure they'd all like to leave for United, Man C and triple wages, but theyve sold none of them.

 

Twaddle. Lescott, Rodwell, Fellaini...

 

If someone actually came in for Baines they'd have sold him too. If, and when one of the big boys makes serious bid for Barkley he'll go as well.

 

Besides which, Everton are a bigger club than us and its delusional to think otherwise. They do occupy a fairly anomalous position in their 'station' of 7th but that doesn't mean that they aren't at the mercy of their 'superiors' in the hierarchy that football has become.

[adrian lord]

We couldn't keep them all, but we could have kept some.

 

And we should have kept Chambers, no question. Even if Koeman (if we believe he is being doggedly pragmatic about all this) said "let him go" then the board should have overruled him, for no other reason than it is has made us look utterly ridiculous. And, if (massive if) it turns out Chambers has threatened to go on strike/become untenable etc (a 19 yo right back with 20 odd games to his name, no less)...then sell on Sept 1st once we've signed some other freaking players. Sneak him out when (some of) the sh it has died down.

 

It's not like he's a must have marquee signing for Arsenal, just rent-a-Brit squad filler. They, and we, could have waited four weeks.

 

The "we can't stop them" routine collapsed completely with Chambers.

 

And Les says "determined to keep" yesterday. Beyond a joke. Let's just get Morgan and Jay out the door already and knuckle down for a season of strife.

 

When will J W-P and Cork get on the conveyor belt up the M3?

[CB Fry]

When will J W-P and Cork get on the conveyor belt up the M3?

Don't worry. We're determined to keep them.

 

So January.

[Greenridge]

As we stand this morning and with further departures seemingly imminent I would be amazed if we don't finish rock bottom this season. Incredibly you can still get 28/1 on that happening.

[OldNick]

If KL 'advisors' are on the ball I would hope they tell her to keep away from SMS at the start of the season. Sadly there will be a lot of hotheaded/frustrated fans looking to vent their anger. Her new scarf and the affection of her father will be little defence. I can imagine some of the sick songs already being planned for her.

I am of the position it is her club and money and don't expect her to risk that for something she really doesn't have an interest in, but there will be a lot of people out there looking to blame. I expect Reed may also be needing some armour

[LVSaint]

What has "if i were a player wanting to better my career, what would you do?" got to do with the recent actions, decision making and ambitions of our owner and board?

 

And on another thread, Clyne appears to be next.....

[Rasiak-9-]

its called balls or standing up to bullies

 

This is the trouble; far too many people on here are taking a completely child-like view on the issue. Personifying the bigger clubs as the bullies on the school playground who've threatened to steal our marbles, and that all we need to do to repel them is to ball up our fists and shout "no!".

 

We you actually look at the facts of the matter and the causal chain that I've described in the first post; coupled with the hard facts that 1) your average Premiership footballer nowadays does not feel the same way about your club 2) he really serves the same role as just a well-paid employee of a company 3) He's being offered more money for more fame and a better lifestyle. You realise the utter, utter hopelessness not just of our situation but of any other club you could put in our position outside the top cartel.

[sadoldgit]

You can't force a player to stay but if you show genuine intent to improve (not just fan pandering statements) by getting a known manger to replace the departing one (which we did), signing current players to bigger contracts (which we haven't done bar Harrison reed I think) and buying new new players, not just to replace departing ones but to improve the squad (which we haven't done) then they will be less likely to want to leave.

 

Unless we brought in very high qulaity players (which would mean smashing our wage structure) I doubt very much if we could prevent people wanting to go to Man Utd, Liverpool or Arsenal. Whether we should LET them go is another issue. I am no happier about the situation than anyone else, but I would be far unhappier if players were leaving for the likes of Newcastle or Stoke.

[Baird of the land]

No it wouldn't have happened to anyone else. Those who think this is some perfect storm no club could have avoided are deluded imo. If Cortese was still here he wouldn't be rolling over and selling the entire squad. Utterly pathetic weak board.

[UpweySaint]

Really? Put the case that our players, manager, results and final league position last year were instead, those of either Hull, Stoke, West Ham or Sunderland and tell me precisely what they'd have been able to do in our position?

 

Following on from that scenario; put YOURSELF in the shoes of one of the players who are leaving, except that you play for one of the above (I'm presuming none of us could really care less about Sunderland or Hull for example). A more famous club, offering Champions League football comes in and makes you an offer to play for their first XI and on top of that, double your wages.

 

Tell me you'd honestly turn that down if you played for Hull, who had just finished 8th and who had just lost the chairman and manager who gave any sliver of hope to the audacious and unrealistic hope of building a Champions League-level club from a mid-table (at best) starting position, in this day and age of football.

 

Now I realise that many of you who agree with Baird's point of view will do everything you can to find a quick one-liner to avoid the question, or perhaps paint the hypothetical scenario I've thrown up as somehow illegitimate, or maybe even ignore it altogether and try and derail the thread.

 

Rest assured, any of the above will be seen by those of sound mind as little more than a stomp, a pout and a sulk that lets face it, of course our stupid board can't do anything. The problem is with the state of the game as a whole and if its any consolation, I don't think its impossible that fans will look back on the dismantling of our Southampton team as a point which marked the beginning of the end of English football being any realistic sort of competition.

 

The problem is with the state of money in football and its certainly not unique to us. Could have happened to anyone. Give yourself a break and try not to panic; its not enjoyable but there's no point desperately looking for someone to blame

 

(P.S Sorry to pick on you Baird but I'm just using your post as an example of the general consensus I'm arguing against)

 

The first bit is not about the board's role at all, it is about players.

 

I understand players wanting to leave (may not always agree with it) but I don't understand the way the board have conducted their business. You seem to be suggesting that a player wanting to leave means we have to sell ... we don't. Moreover if and when we do decide to sell it should be at a time that is in our clubs best interests ... ie when we have replacements sorted.

 

You reference the money factor but we, as a club, have already made substantial gains yet appear to be prepared to lose yet more crucial players for our first team and I would not be too surprised if the rumours are correct and these deals would v much be on the terms on the bidding clubs.

[OldNick]

This is the trouble; far too many people on here are taking a completely child-like view on the issue. Personifying the bigger clubs as the bullies on the school playground who've threatened to steal our marbles, and that all we need to do to repel them is to ball up our fists and shout "no!".

 

We you actually look at the facts of the matter and the causal chain that I've described in the first post; coupled with the hard facts that 1) your average Premiership footballer nowadays does not feel the same way about your club 2) he really serves the same role as just a well-paid employee of a company 3) He's being offered more money for more fame and a better lifestyle. You realise the utter, utter hopelessness not just of our situation but of any other club you could put in our position outside the top cartel.

they were under contract, the loss of being in the limelight, perhaps losing their international status due to be in with the youth team. Their open market being affected by their demise.Their agents who are the main advisors to in the main not very bright people would soon need to get them back on board. Some of the players we could have sold, but the exodus is inexcusable

[jasonb]

Titanic.

 

Oh yeah, people go on about Titanic, Titanic... Let me tell you something about the Titanic, people forget, people forget that on the Titanic's maiden voyage there were over 1000 miles of uneventful, very pleasurable cruising before it hit the iceberg!

[70's Mike]

This is the trouble; far too many people on here are taking a completely child-like view on the issue. Personifying the bigger clubs as the bullies on the school playground who've threatened to steal our marbles, and that all we need to do to repel them is to ball up our fists and shout "no!".

 

We you actually look at the facts of the matter and the causal chain that I've described in the first post; coupled with the hard facts that 1) your average Premiership footballer nowadays does not feel the same way about your club 2) he really serves the same role as just a well-paid employee of a company 3) He's being offered more money for more fame and a better lifestyle. You realise the utter, utter hopelessness not just of our situation but of any other club you could put in our position outside the top cartel.

 

understand but someone created this environment at our Club so that 5, maybe up to 8, players want to move away. Those players I assume instructed their agents to get them out of here.

[Killers Knee]

I will concede your main point that industrial economics has stripped football of being a competitive sport, but we really didn't have to send Krueger half way round the world to hawk a crocked JRod. We are in the position now where our talented players who remain will be asking their agents to move them on so they can rescue their careers.

[SaintRichmond]

If KL 'advisors' are on the ball I would hope they tell her to keep away from SMS at the start of the season. Sadly there will be a lot of hotheaded/frustrated fans looking to vent their anger. Her new scarf and the affection of her father will be little defence. I can imagine some of the sick songs already being planned for her.

I am of the position it is her club and money and don't expect her to risk that for something she really doesn't have an interest in, but there will be a lot of people out there looking to blame. I expect Reed may also be needing some armour

 

 

That is painfully obvious, or it certainly should be by now.

 

So, why doesn't she just sell up and GO

 

Even someone with limited Football intelligence must realise what damage selling ALL your best players causes ?

[SaintRichmond]

Oh yeah, people go on about Titanic, Titanic... Let me tell you something about the Titanic, people forget, people forget that on the Titanic's maiden voyage there were over 1000 miles of uneventful, very pleasurable cruising before it hit the iceberg!

 

The benefit of a University education, captured in one prophetic statement

 

Though he does forget to mention that, with better Captaincy, actually hitting the iceberg could easily have been prevented

[SaintRichmond]

As we stand this morning and with further departures seemingly imminent I would be amazed if we don't finish rock bottom this season. Incredibly you can still get 28/1 on that happening.

 

We could well aim for Derby's record

[CB Fry]

This is the trouble; far too many people on here are taking a completely child-like view on the issue. Personifying the bigger clubs as the bullies on the school playground who've threatened to steal our marbles, and that all we need to do to repel them is to ball up our fists and shout "no!".

 

We you actually look at the facts of the matter and the causal chain that I've described in the first post; coupled with the hard facts that 1) your average Premiership footballer nowadays does not feel the same way about your club 2) he really serves the same role as just a well-paid employee of a company 3) He's being offered more money for more fame and a better lifestyle. You realise the utter, utter hopelessness not just of our situation but of any other club you could put in our position outside the top cartel.

You're simplifying it too. It's not just a cut and dried unavoidable business process either. It is a multi lateral negotiation process with multiple variables.

 

We used the "time" variable quite well with Shaw, it was a one-club-transfer so get it done quick, but very poorly with Chambers which we should have dragged out for maximum pain to Arsenal until at least the end of the window.

[sadoldgit]

No it wouldn't have happened to anyone else. Those who think this is some perfect storm no club could have avoided are deluded imo. If Cortese was still here he wouldn't be rolling over and selling the entire squad. Utterly pathetic weak board.

 

It seems that he was prepared to sell Lambert so why not? The simple fact is we have no idea what would be happening if Cortese was still here.

[broncoboy]

Really? Put the case that our players, manager, results and final league position last year were instead, those of either Hull, Stoke, West Ham or Sunderland and tell me precisely what they'd have been able to do in our position?

 

Following on from that scenario; put YOURSELF in the shoes of one of the players who are leaving, except that you play for one of the above (I'm presuming none of us could really care less about Sunderland or Hull for example). A more famous club, offering Champions League football comes in and makes you an offer to play for their first XI and on top of that, double your wages.

 

Tell me you'd honestly turn that down if you played for Hull, who had just finished 8th and who had just lost the chairman and manager who gave any sliver of hope to the audacious and unrealistic hope of building a Champions League-level club from a mid-table (at best) starting position, in this day and age of football.

 

Now I realise that many of you who agree with Baird's point of view will do everything you can to find a quick one-liner to avoid the question, or perhaps paint the hypothetical scenario I've thrown up as somehow illegitimate, or maybe even ignore it altogether and try and derail the thread.

 

Rest assured, any of the above will be seen by those of sound mind as little more than a stomp, a pout and a sulk that lets face it, of course our stupid board can't do anything. The problem is with the state of the game as a whole and if its any consolation, I don't think its impossible that fans will look back on the dismantling of our Southampton team as a point which marked the beginning of the end of English football being any realistic sort of competition.

 

The problem is with the state of money in football and its certainly not unique to us. Could have happened to anyone. Give yourself a break and try not to panic; its not enjoyable but there's no point desperately looking for someone to blame

 

(P.S Sorry to pick on you Baird but I'm just using your post as an example of the general consensus I'm arguing against)

 

 

Les Reed is judged on who he brings in and who he retains

 

He has bought 2 players who are unproven in the premier but potentially good. Just remember Osvaldo and Ramirez

He has been unable to retain anyone so far even the crocked Rodriguez

 

He has put our premier ship status at risk

2-3 weeks to go and we probably need to buy 4-5 who will start the campaign barely knowing the way to the ground

 

My prediction Les Reed will be howled out of St Mary's by October

[Baird of the land]

It seems that he was prepared to sell Lambert so why not? The simple fact is we have no idea what would be happening if Cortese was still here.

 

Yes because he thought getting rid of Lambert was in Saints interest, not that Lambert asked him sweetly if he could go to West Ham and the board bent over backwards to accomodate. We can plot a fair idea of what Cortese would have done and it wouldn't be the wounded gazelle crying out to the lions to come quick.

[Whitey Grandad]

The benefit of a University education, captured in one prophetic statement

 

Though he does forget to mention that, with better Captaincy, actually hitting the iceberg could easily have been prevented

 

Alan Partridge, actually.

[Donatello]

You can't force a player to stay but if you show genuine intent to improve (not just fan pandering statements) by getting a known manger to replace the departing one (which we did), signing current players to bigger contracts (which we haven't done bar Harrison reed I think) and buying new new players, not just to replace departing ones but to improve the squad (which we haven't done) then they will be less likely to want to leave.

 

Ermmm, Liverpool did.

[OldNick]

That is painfully obvious, or it certainly should be by now.

 

So, why doesn't she just sell up and GO

 

Even someone with limited Football intelligence must realise what damage selling ALL your best players causes ?

but she doesnt care how she gets her money back. As soon as she is gone i suspect we will never get a second thought. She will be able to waltz off and enjoy her life to the fullest. I will refrain from insulting her as to my respect for ML, he may not have lived and breathed Saints but i do believe he cared

[Heisenberg]

but she doesnt care how she gets her money back. As soon as she is gone i suspect we will never get a second thought. She will be able to waltz off and enjoy her life to the fullest. I will refrain from insulting her as to my respect for ML, he may not have lived and breathed Saints but i do believe he cared

 

The damage she is doing for women in football is the most hurtful thing in all of this

[badgerx16]

 

My prediction Les Reed will be howled out of St Mary's by October

 

I give him until the end of August.

[Window Cleaner]

It seems that he was prepared to sell Lambert so why not? The simple fact is we have no idea what would be happening if Cortese was still here.

 

Perhaps that was to raise the funds for the 2 players that we really needed to complete the jigsaw ?

We needed a decent second keeper and a CB so that we would never ever have to rely on Gazzaniga,Davis or Jos again. 8 million might have got us that, buy a keeper and pay a decent loan fee for a CB, it was a possible temporary solution. KL had obviously said no more cash so NC was trying to sort it out otherwise.

[trousers]

One word.... EVERTON!

 

They have some top players, im sure they'd all like to leave for United, Man C and triple wages, but theyve sold none of them.

 

The comparison with Everton doesn't quite stack up IMO.

 

Our players are leaving because they want Champions League football and, rightly or wrongly, they believed in Cortese's ambition/dream that they could achieve that at Saints.

 

Everton got closer than Saints last season to flirting with Champions League qualification ergo their players probably still believe that they stand a chance of achieving it next season with Everton. Our players have lost that belief ergo they are agitating to move to a club that can.

 

Similar(ish) clubs but different enough to make the difference between players wanting to go and players wanting to stay.

[Donatello]

The comparison with Everton doesn't quite stack up IMO.

 

Our players are leaving because they want Champions League football and, rightly or wrongly, they believed in Cortese's ambition/dream that they could achieve that at Saints.

 

Everton got closer than Saints last season to flirting with Champions League qualification ergo their players probably still believe that they stand a chance of achieving it next season with Everton. Our players have lost that belief ergo they are agitating to move to a club that can.

 

Similar(ish) clubs but different enough to make the difference between players wanting to go and players wanting to stay.

 

So Lallana, Lambert, Schneiderlein, and Rodriguez joined Southampton for Champions League football? Any farfetched notion of Champions League football would only have been broached after our first season back in the top flight. I, mean, who in their right mind is pondering European competitions during a relegation scrap?

[Whitey Grandad]

The comparison with Everton doesn't quite stack up IMO.

 

Our players are leaving because they want Champions League football and, rightly or wrongly, they believed in Cortese's ambition/dream that they could achieve that at Saints.

 

Everton got closer than Saints last season to flirting with Champions League qualification ergo their players probably still believe that they stand a chance of achieving it next season with Everton. Our players have lost that belief ergo they are agitating to move to a club that can.

 

Similar(ish) clubs but different enough to make the difference between players wanting to go and players wanting to stay.

 

Even Everton had to sell Rooney.

[Heisenberg]

The comparison with Everton doesn't quite stack up IMO.

 

Our players are leaving because they want Champions League football and, rightly or wrongly, they believed in Cortese's ambition/dream that they could achieve that at Saints.

 

Everton got closer than Saints last season to flirting with Champions League qualification ergo their players probably still believe that they stand a chance of achieving it next season with Everton. Our players have lost that belief ergo they are agitating to move to a club that can.

 

Similar(ish) clubs but different enough to make the difference between players wanting to go and players wanting to stay.

 

Everton havent been in the champions league for years, so why would there players still have faith but ours none?

 

Everton have been trying and failing for the last 10 years. Sure theyve got close(ish) but ultimately they failed.

 

Something is not right at our club, clubs can hold onto top players without champions league football and Everton, Stoke, WHU, Newcastle even Swansea have shown that.

 

Sell 1 or 2 to balance the books and reinvest like Everton do..... But selling 7-8 of your best players is simply unprecedented

[trousers]

So Lallana, Lambert, Schneiderlein, and Rodriguez joined Southampton for Champions League football? Any farfetched notion of Champions League football would only have been broached after our first season back in the top flight. I, mean, who in their right mind is pondering European competitions during a relegation scrap?

Not sure where I suggested the reason they *joined* the club was for champions league football? Most if not all of our long term players are/were on relatively new contracts and its looking obvious to me that Cortese convinced them that they could reach the next level (European football) at Southampton. The new regime have, we're told, lowered the bar of ambition (or at least not given reassurances to the players that the same ambition is still there), ergo they are seeking the move to the next level elsewhere.

 

Just trying to highlight the differences between player mentality at Saints (in the post Cortese era) versus the current mentality of Everton players as that was the comparison being made by another poster.

[rick1976.4.38]

the time to worry big time about our club is if/when fonte joins cardfiff city.so far all players have gone to top 6 clubs.

Cardiff are so called offering fonte £35000pw,which we cant.

if he jumps then I think we can presume we are *ucked.

coys

[CB Fry]

So Lallana, Lambert, Schneiderlein, and Rodriguez joined Southampton for Champions League football? Any farfetched notion of Champions League football would only have been broached after our first season back in the top flight. I, mean, who in their right mind is pondering European competitions during a relegation scrap?

I think trousers is talking about reasons for players staying not reasons for joining. That's pretty clear in his post.

[View From The Top]

The board have now created the perfect storm in which players previous happy are desperate to get out and those we were confident of getting no longer want to come.

[OldNick]

The board have now created the perfect storm in which players previous happy are desperate to get out and those we were confident of getting no longer want to come.

sad but true it seems

[Donatello]

I think trousers is talking about reasons for players staying not reasons for joining. That's pretty clear in his post.

 

Yes, but you misinterpret my point, they didn't join Southampton for European football, nor have they been played the majority of their footballing careers at Southampton under the pretence of European football. So we're talking about a 'dream' which has manifested itself within the past 12 months. Are we really suggesting that every player (that has left) had adopted the notion that Southampton were going to be a European force and that the departure of one man tore all of their dreams asunder? Many of these players have been here for years upon years, they're accustomed to a lack of Champions League football.

[CB Fry]

Yes, but you misinterpret my point, they didn't join Southampton for European football, nor have they been played the majority of their footballing careers at Southampton under the pretence of European football. So we're talking about a 'dream' which has manifested itself within the past 12 months. Are we really suggesting that every player (that has left) had adopted the notion that Southampton were going to be a European force and that the departure of one man tore all of their dreams asunder? Many of these players have been here for years upon years, they're accustomed to a lack of Champions League football.

I don't think a single person on this forum is assessing our current situation in the way you describe, so I really don't know what your point is.

[Donatello]

Not sure where I suggested the reason they *joined* the club was for champions league football? Most if not all of our long term players are/were on relatively new contracts and its looking obvious to me that Cortese convinced them that they could reach the next level (European football) at Southampton. The new regime have, we're told, lowered the bar of ambition (or at least not given reassurances to the players that the same ambition is still there), ergo they are seeking the move to the next level elsewhere.

 

Just trying to highlight the differences between player mentality at Saints (in the post Cortese era) versus the current mentality of Everton players as that was the comparison being made by another poster.

 

I accept your point reference contracts, but (as far as we're aware) few of these players were being chased when they signed their fresh contract, ergo, why would Cortese have to promise them European football in order to convince them to stay. It may have been a stated ambition, but I can't see how it could've been a deciding factor (save for Morgan and Shaw).

[Donatello]

I don't think a single person on this forum is assessing our current situation in the way you describe, so I really don't know what your point is.

 

Trousers is suggesting that players are leaving because Champion League aspirations have been dashed at Southampton.

 

Edit: And I've read *plenty* of 'the dream died with Cortese' posts.

[Professor]

Any player who is told by his agent that another club will double his wages would be interested and might ask if he can go. But his employing club can simply say 'NO' not while you are contracted to us. That answer can be put politely and positively but however explained, it still amounts to the same thing.

 

The player can then consider refusing to co-operate with his club unless they allow him to leave, to which the response can be disciplinary action. A player not performing on the pitch or out of the team will lose opportunities for international call-ups and will soon not be a target for any other clubs either. The potential damage to a player's career should focus his mind on seeing out his contract.