The mess we're in

[SOTONS EAST SIDE]

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.hat-trick.fr/southampton-est-en-vente/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DSouthampton%2Best%2Ben%2Bvente%26client%3Dopera%26hs%3Dqpt Edited 28 July, 2014 by SOTONS EAST SIDE

[Legod Second Coming]

Why doesn't Cortese find some backers, come back and deliver HIS vision. I'd back him.

[Saint Charlie]

Why doesn't Cortese find some backers, come back and deliver HIS vision. I'd back him.

 

It's a bit late now. We just sold his vision in case you hadn't seen.

[mulletsaint]

Which bits?

 

My thoughts exactly and how's what you know different?

[mulletsaint]

Ahahaha... sorry!

 

One other note on player purchases... we're giving (Reed) that everything is under control but there's a lot of frustration from the staff that we're dragging our heels and missing out on some players. Caulker, an example, messing around with the fee then steaming in at the last minute with an acceptable bid and by then it's too late.

 

Maybe just the method that those controlling the purse strings have of ensuring that we don't reinvest much of the transfer kitty.

[Crab Lungs]

We'll have a don't panic statement from the club soon

[GAS]

I read the opening thread. But the rest of it, you gotta be joking.

[madruss]

Why doesn't Cortese find some backers, come back and deliver HIS vision. I'd back him.

Because those backers would have to be insane, and willing to lose a large chunk of money. Maybe that's why it's taking him so long

[Legod Second Coming]

It's a bit late now. We just sold his vision in case you hadn't seen.

 

Really? When he came here we were near the bottom of League One. He would still inherit a top club manager and the facilities.

If anything, we were waiting for his next five year plan.

All he needs to do is find another Markus and the dream could still be alive...

[hypochondriac]

We'll have a don't panic statement from the club soon

 

No one is listening anymore.

[mulletsaint]

Really? When he came here we were near the bottom of League One. He would still inherit a top club manager and the facilities.

If anything, we were waiting for his next five year plan.

All he needs to do is find another Markus and the dream could still be alive...

 

The possible gains against outlay for buying a club with our infrastructure in League 1, were surely much more attractive than buying us now for an inflated price and a dwindling first team squad.

[stevegrant]

My money's on the pochettino and lallana bits.

There are bits in all of it, really.

 

Section by section:

 

Cortese's departure - multiple reasons (some of which can't be specified as I'd get in all sorts of ****), although it's fairly well known that he put up resistance to ANY control of spending from KL. A suicide mission if ever there was one.

 

Finances - correct with the exception of NC not leaking stuff to the press. He was all over both the Mail (Neil Ashton) and BBC (Ben Smith).

 

Possible sale of club - it's feasible, but the method makes no sense. If there are no buyers at whatever asking price has been set, you either drop the asking price or make the product MORE attractive for the price, not less! Selling the top players arguably drops the value of the club by more than the fees received because of the perception that the club has momentum in the wrong direction.

 

Lallana - feasible, but it's almost the complete opposite of what I'd heard, with the exception of the Man United stuff. He'd wanted out for months, Clattenburg was essentially right - having been away on international duty in November, he believed he'd "made it" and deserved to be at a club that elevated him to the same status as the England regulars. He wasn't entirely thrilled with being subbed off relatively early every game either.

 

Players - NC had lined up a deal with West Ham to sell Rickie Lambert for £7m in January. That deal was hastily pulled as soon as NC walked. Overall lack of communication - certainly true, but for most players, what "communication" are they expecting from the board? Daily briefings with an update of how many shirts with their name on have been sold? Over the summer, players are rightly left to enjoy their own time and not be pestered by club employees (I'd be pretty ****ed off if my boss was phoning me with updates while I was on holiday - the clue's in the name). The only ones who should have expected to have heard something are those who would expect new contract offers in the pipeline - Fonte and Cork being the two prime examples - but I don't see what the fuss was about over Fonte supposedly having received his in writing. I'd want any contract offer I was going to sign in writing before committing to anything.

 

The noise from Alan Cork on Twitter suggests Cork hasn't received an offer at all, let alone an offer that was then withdrawn. I can't say I was ever particularly surprised by that towards the end of last season, it always appeared to me as though Pochettino was never quite convinced with JC, and as he had long since decided he was leaving, why would he care about putting it to the board himself?

 

Pochettino - he'd decided he was off around Christmas. As mental as it sounds, NC was going to sack him in December around the time we had that bad run of injuries and results which tempered our great start to the season. He was talked out of it by a number of senior players, but MP felt he didn't have the trust of NC any longer, so decided he was off, and as the rest of the season wore on, made it very clear what his plan was to many of the players, despite NC's departure in the meantime. He basically advised them all to move on as they may not get another opportunity, so naturally they all got onto their agents and now we have the carnage we see before us today. MP was offered a new deal, and it had been on the table for 2-3 months before he went to Spurs - coincidentally it was offering exactly the same salary as he is now earning at White Hart Lane.

 

Koeman - from people who know him, he will not tolerate players who don't want to play for him. If anyone doesn't want to play for him, they can do one, and he'll bring in replacements who DO want to do so. Given his track record and status in the game, we shouldn't be short of players come the start of the season.

 

Summary - clearly the business has been done the wrong way around, replacements should have been signed before the others were let go, and that falls on the board to carry the can, and KL will have to accept that we'll be spending more for most of our signings than we anticipated as a result.

 

Some of that may turn out to be inaccurate, but those are the corrections to your War and Peace effort as I see them.

[ratio_decidendi]

tl;dr - A whole lot more plausible than Crab Lungs' original effort.

[shirleysfc]

Yep, SG's account is somewhere between Guan's and Crabbie's, and probably the most accurate

[LeBenali]

Your optimism re: new signings is a relief Steve - I've accepted we won't be signing world beaters but the likes of Vlaar, Forster, Redmond (for instance) would be an improvement on the current state of play.

[Turkish]

There are bits in all of it, really.

 

Section by section:

 

Cortese's departure - multiple reasons (some of which can't be specified as I'd get in all sorts of ****), although it's fairly well known that he put up resistance to ANY control of spending from KL. A suicide mission if ever there was one.

 

Finances - correct with the exception of NC not leaking stuff to the press. He was all over both the Mail (Neil Ashton) and BBC (Ben Smith).

 

Possible sale of club - it's feasible, but the method makes no sense. If there are no buyers at whatever asking price has been set, you either drop the asking price or make the product MORE attractive for the price, not less! Selling the top players arguably drops the value of the club by more than the fees received because of the perception that the club has momentum in the wrong direction.

 

Lallana - feasible, but it's almost the complete opposite of what I'd heard, with the exception of the Man United stuff. He'd wanted out for months, Clattenburg was essentially right - having been away on international duty in November, he believed he'd "made it" and deserved to be at a club that elevated him to the same status as the England regulars. He wasn't entirely thrilled with being subbed off relatively early every game either.

 

Players - NC had lined up a deal with West Ham to sell Rickie Lambert for £7m in January. That deal was hastily pulled as soon as NC walked. Overall lack of communication - certainly true, but for most players, what "communication" are they expecting from the board? Daily briefings with an update of how many shirts with their name on have been sold? Over the summer, players are rightly left to enjoy their own time and not be pestered by club employees (I'd be pretty ****ed off if my boss was phoning me with updates while I was on holiday - the clue's in the name). The only ones who should have expected to have heard something are those who would expect new contract offers in the pipeline - Fonte and Cork being the two prime examples - but I don't see what the fuss was about over Fonte supposedly having received his in writing. I'd want any contract offer I was going to sign in writing before committing to anything.

 

The noise from Alan Cork on Twitter suggests Cork hasn't received an offer at all, let alone an offer that was then withdrawn. I can't say I was ever particularly surprised by that towards the end of last season, it always appeared to me as though Pochettino was never quite convinced with JC, and as he had long since decided he was leaving, why would he care about putting it to the board himself?

 

Pochettino - he'd decided he was off around Christmas. As mental as it sounds, NC was going to sack him in December around the time we had that bad run of injuries and results which tempered our great start to the season. He was talked out of it by a number of senior players, but MP felt he didn't have the trust of NC any longer, so decided he was off, and as the rest of the season wore on, made it very clear what his plan was to many of the players, despite NC's departure in the meantime. He basically advised them all to move on as they may not get another opportunity, so naturally they all got onto their agents and now we have the carnage we see before us today. MP was offered a new deal, and it had been on the table for 2-3 months before he went to Spurs - coincidentally it was offering exactly the same salary as he is now earning at White Hart Lane.

 

Koeman - from people who know him, he will not tolerate players who don't want to play for him. If anyone doesn't want to play for him, they can do one, and he'll bring in replacements who DO want to do so. Given his track record and status in the game, we shouldn't be short of players come the start of the season.

 

Summary - clearly the business has been done the wrong way around, replacements should have been signed before the others were let go, and that falls on the board to carry the can, and KL will have to accept that we'll be spending more for most of our signings than we anticipated as a result.

 

Some of that may turn out to be inaccurate, but those are the corrections to your War and Peace effort as I see them.

 

That's certainly the closet to what if heard, especially the bit about Pochetino stirring behind the scenes.

[trousers]

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=http://www.hat-trick.fr/southampton-est-en-vente/&prev=/search%3Fq%3DSouthampton%2Best%2Ben%2Bvente%26client%3Dopera%26hs%3Dqpt

That's looks quite interesting, dodgy Google translation aside

[shirleysfc]

That's looks quite interesting, dodgy Google translation aside

 

What did it say?

[mulletsaint]

That's certainly the closet to what if heard, especially the bit about Pochetino stirring behind the scenes.

 

Maybe we need to have an ITK sweepstake. Who will turn out to be closest to the truth? tell you what, all give me a fiver and I'll sort out the rest.

[angelman]

StevieG, ta for that. Are we for sale or not?

[Cascadia Saint]

Pochettino

 

Mauricio and his staff were settled and more than happy to stay. Sure, he's got ambitions but he'd grown close the players and was enjoying his work. The subsequent power shift threw that all up in the air and he was talked round from resigning in January, a lot of it was out of loyalty to the players. We've seen a lot of stuff on here about him being shifty and disloyal - he wasn't. He seeked assurances about the following season and was rebutted, like Lallana and the other players. Reed and Krueger maintained they were in control but weren't. Pochettino decided after considerable time waiting to talk about the new season and the strategy for it to look elsewhere.

 

By the time Spurs had shown an interest, our board then panicked and offered him a MEGA deal to stay and all the funds from the sales of any players. He told them where to go - he was willing to accept 1-2 departures but he got no guarantees that there wasn't going to be any more. He wanted to decide his playing squad and with him staying, we would have been in a much more persuasive position. Additionally to this, Pochettino had already put a lot of work in and identified players that he'd have liked to have been brought in for the following campaign but was told there was no guarantee on what budget he'd get and whether we'd pay the money for them.

 

For him, the "project" was dead. No assurances were forthcoming when he asked and by the time the board realised he was in the sights of Spurs, his mind was already made up - and with that, so was many of the other players minds too.

 

Irrespective, MP and his family continue to live in Southampton and are due to move into a new place in OV.

 

 

Koeman

 

RoKo was aware of the Lambert, Lallana and Shaw sales but had no intention of losing any more players. He was promised a significant amount of money to rebuild the team in his style but did not sign up for a mass exodus. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts. So far, he's kept a dignified silence but I wouldn't be too surprised if the rumours of his grumbles behind the scenes are true.

 

RoKo was identified as the correct choice after his work with a young team on a shoestring budget a Feyenoord and seemed a perfect fit. That said, he didn't sign up for this. At the moment, he's likely receiving a lot of fluff talk from the powers that be about reinvestment. He should be very, very suspicious right now.

 

Irrespective of this, the Prem's a good place for him to be "seen" and I'm sure he'll make the most of his opportunity if given a fair crack of the whip. He didn't sign up for this though, that's for sure.

 

Cork & Fonte

 

In May, there were new contracts on the table for both players (still Pochettino in charge). However, these offers were withdrawn after the rumoured instruction that all the players were for sale.

 

Training Ground

 

We were always going to continue with the finishing of the training ground; the work there was never going to be halted. It's seen as an asset in any potential future sale and with the sales of Chambers, Shaw and Lallana from the very place those players were developed could be viewed as prestigious and potentially noteworthy to anyone interested in buying the club.

 

Summary

 

So where does that leave us after all this? With a threadbare squad of kids, unwanted players and established pro's with just 2 weeks or so until the Premier League season starts. I did mention a few months back of a domino effect and if you trawl my posts, you'll see that I had often spoke of this (albeit cryptically, much to many of you's annoyance).

 

Expect one possibly two players in this week in attempt to placate the well-placed hysteria surrounding the club but also expect more to follow too.

 

The problem is, with the clear lack of ambition with the sales has put a lot of players off and with the obviously huge intake of cash, it's also driven up the price of a lot of our targets as well. We've got bids in for a lot of players but we're nowhere near the valuation of many of the players because other clubs know we've got cash to burn. It's left us in a very difficult situation and it'll be quite remarkable if we finish mid-table this year, let alone anywhere higher. There's a lot of p1ssed off people right now, many of them staff and players who share YOUR frustrations. The stripes, the fan-friendly letters... it's all fluff. Is there a vision? Is there a strategy? No, not any more. We'd be lucky to tread water and that's what Les and co are hoping we do.

 

Much of this was avoidable, there was absolutely no need for a domino effect. Sure, we were always going to be victims of our own success but if we'd played things out differently with MP, AL et al then things could have been so so different.

 

That's it for now, I'll write more later.

 

Pochettino

 

 

Mauricio and his staff were settled and more than happy to stay. Sure, he's got ambitions but he'd grown close the players and was enjoying his work. The subsequent power shift threw that all up in the air and he was talked round from resigning in January, a lot of it was out of loyalty to the players. We've seen a lot of stuff on here about him being shifty and disloyal - he wasn't. He seeked assurances about the following season and was rebutted, like Lallana and the other players. Reed and Krueger maintained they were in control but weren't. Pochettino decided after considerable time waiting to talk about the new season and the strategy for it to look elsewhere.

 

 

By the time Spurs had shown an interest, our board then panicked and offered him a MEGA deal to stay and all the funds from the sales of any players. He told them where to go - he was willing to accept 1-2 departures but he got no guarantees that there wasn't going to be any more. He wanted to decide his playing squad and with him staying, we would have been in a much more persuasive position.

 

For him, the "project" was dead. No assurances were forthcoming when he asked and by the time the board realised he was in the sights of Spurs, his mind was already made up - and with that, so was many of the other players minds too.

 

 

Irrespective, MP and his family continue to live in Southampton and are due to move into a new place in OV.

 

 

Koeman

 

 

RoKo was aware of the Lambert, Lallana and Shaw sales but had no intention of losing any more players. He was promised a significant amount of money to rebuild the team in his style but did not sign up for a mass exodus. It'll be interesting to see how he reacts. So far, he's kept a dignified silence but I wouldn't be too surprised if the rumours of his grumbles behind the scenes are true.

 

 

RoKo was identified as the correct choice after his work with a young team on a shoestring budget a Feyenoord and seemed a perfect fit. That said, he didn't sign up for this. At the moment, he's likely receiving a lot of fluff talk from the powers that be about reinvestment. He should be very, very suspicious right now.

 

 

Irrespective of this, the Prem's a good place for him to be "seen" and I'm sure he'll make the most of his opportunity if given a fair crack of the whip. He didn't sign up for this though, that's for sure.

 

 

Cork & Fonte

 

 

In May, there were new contracts on the table for both players (still Pochettino in charge). However, these offers were withdrawn after the rumoured instruction that all the players were for sale.

 

 

Training Ground

 

 

We were always going to continue with the finishing of the training ground; the work there was never going to be halted. It's seen as an asset in any potential future sale and with the sales of Chambers, Shaw and Lallana from the very place those players were developed could be viewed as prestigious and potentially noteworthy to anyone interested in buying the club.

 

 

Summary

 

 

So where does that leave us after all this? With a threadbare squad of kids, unwanted players and established pro's with just 2 weeks or so until the Premier League season starts. I did mention a few months back of a domino effect and if you trawl my posts, you'll see that I had often spoke of this (albeit cryptically, much to many of you's annoyance).

 

 

Expect one possibly two players in this week in attempt to placate the well-placed hysteria surrounding the club but also expect more to follow too. We're pinning our hopes on some new acquisitions, a quick-gelling period and untested and quite frankly, ill-prepared and clearly not-ready youth team players who will be hastily thrown into Premier League football before they're even ready.

 

 

The problem is, with the clear lack of ambition with the sales has put a lot of players off and with the obviously huge intake of cash, it's also driven up the price of a lot of our targets as well. We've got bids in for a lot of players but we're nowhere near the valuation of many of the players because other clubs know we've got cash to burn. It's left us in a very difficult situation and it'll be quite remarkable if we finish mid-table this year, let alone anywhere higher. There's a lot of p1ssed off people right now, many of them staff and players who share YOUR frustrations. The stripes, the fan-friendly letters... it's all fluff. Is there a vision? Is there a strategy? No, not any more. We'd be lucky to tread water and that's what Les and co are hoping we do.

 

 

Much of this was avoidable, there was absolutely no need for a domino effect. Sure, we were always going to be victims of our own success but if we'd played things out differently with MP, AL et al then things could have been so so different.

 

 

That's it for now, I'll write more later.

 

 

 

You don't need the apostrophe in "pro's".

 

On line 112, I think.

[stevegrant]

StevieG, ta for that. Are we for sale or not?

Every football club is for sale for the right price, we're no different.

[Wiggles31]

Surely based on Crab Lungs has posted it makes no sense that we have signed Pelle and Tadic for 18 odd million if they wanted to continue with the bare minimum as well as some of the links with players. Don't believe it. Sorry.

[Batman]

Surely based on Crab Lungs has posted it makes no sense that we have signed Pelle and Tadic for 18 odd million if they wanted to continue with the bare minimum as well as some of the links with players. Don't believe it. Sorry.

 

Selling two players for £30m and replace them for around half that. It's a start

[hypochondriac]

Every football club is for sale for the right price, we're no different.

 

Do you think Ralph is looking for buyers?

[angelman]

True, what I meant really, is are these sales of players part of the pre-sale of the club, or are they just a mass exodus out of the control of the board/manager?

[View From The Top]

Do you think Ralph is looking for buyers?

 

If I'm honest I think that's what he's been brought in for.

[Dig Dig]

Surely based on Crab Lungs has posted it makes no sense that we have signed Pelle and Tadic for 18 odd million if they wanted to continue with the bare minimum as well as some of the links with players. Don't believe it. Sorry.

 

Pelle is a big gamble IMO and the value of those signings aren't that big in todays world. We have so much quality to replace and if the board are serious about retaining Premier League status, we will need plenty more than those two and we will need some to be of an even higher standard.

Edited 28 July, 2014 by Dig Dig

[shurlock]

Do you think Ralph is looking for buyers?

 

That's what the Molina article says -basically there to tap his world economic forum contacts and massage the egos of the rich and powerful.

[stevegrant]

Do you think Ralph is looking for buyers?

 

True, what I meant really, is are these sales of players part of the pre-sale of the club, or are they just a mass exodus out of the control of the board/manager?

I don't think there's anything in Krueger's resume that would really make him the go-to guy to find a buyer for a £100-200m football club. I appreciate that it doesn't suggest he's a football club chairman either, but he's got a non-executive role, which makes it rather different to the traditional chairman role who carries out the negotiations and signs the cheques. If KL was looking to sell, she'd employ the services of someone with experience of corporate takeovers, and it would be as an outside consultancy rather than somebody already at the club.

 

Edit: to clarify, I think Krueger's role at the World Economic Forum is from a motivational and management side of things rather than any in-depth corporate takeover experience.

[mulletsaint]

My head hurts. Can someone wake me up when all of this is over?

[farawaysaint]

I don't think there's anything in Krueger's resume that would really make him the go-to guy to find a buyer for a £100-200m football club. I appreciate that it doesn't suggest he's a football club chairman either, but he's got a non-executive role, which makes it rather different to the traditional chairman role who carries out the negotiations and signs the cheques. If KL was looking to sell, she'd employ the services of someone with experience of corporate takeovers, and it would be as an outside consultancy rather than somebody already at the club.

 

Didn't the French article mention Purslow? He was being touted as heavily involved once NC left as well IIRC. Steve, for the love of god and my own sanity please in your opinion is there anything to be positive about?

[shurlock]

I don't think there's anything in Krueger's resume that would really make him the go-to guy to find a buyer for a £100-200m football club. I appreciate that it doesn't suggest he's a football club chairman either, but he's got a non-executive role, which makes it rather different to the traditional chairman role who carries out the negotiations and signs the cheques. If KL was looking to sell, she'd employ the services of someone with experience of corporate takeovers, and it would be as an outside consultancy rather than somebody already at the club.

 

Again the Molina article says that Christian Purslow was also instructed by KL to sound out the market for buyers. Kruger is also doing the same, using his big black book of WEF contacts.

 

Article says that officially saying we're up for sale a la Villa would only attract tyre kickers and show that we're weak. Kruger's a more discrete intermediary.

Edited 28 July, 2014 by shurlock

[Olallana]

I don't think there's anything in Krueger's resume that would really make him the go-to guy to find a buyer for a £100-200m football club. I appreciate that it doesn't suggest he's a football club chairman either, but he's got a non-executive role, which makes it rather different to the traditional chairman role who carries out the negotiations and signs the cheques. If KL was looking to sell, she'd employ the services of someone with experience of corporate takeovers, and it would be as an outside consultancy rather than somebody already at the club.

 

Like Purslow?

[Dr Who?]

It is all painting out like I thought it would, when NC walked!

[stevegrant]

Like Purslow?

Potentially (must confess I haven't read all of that translated article as the first few sentences made my eyes bleed), but if I remember rightly, he brought Hicks and Gillett to Liverpool. I'll pass on that one, thanks!

[Jonnyboy]

It's all Boruc's fault for fannying around with the ball at the Emirates ffs! All downhill since then.

Edited 28 July, 2014 by Jonnyboy

[stevegrant]

Steve, for the love of god and my own sanity please in your opinion is there anything to be positive about?

IMO we have made a genuine upgrade with our manager and it's entirely possible that both Pelle and Tadic will have better seasons than Lambert and Lallana. If Koeman gets all (or most) of his targets, I'd expect us to be very competitive again, but we're not going to be able to judge that until the end of the transfer window. Clearly nobody's going to be happy with so many departures, but the cricketing saying of "you can't judge a pitch until both sides have batted" rings true for me, whether we've got a good deal will depend on who replaces those who leave. From what I've seen so far, albeit against limited opposition, Tadic and Pelle look promising.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

If the club were so desperate to sell their crown jewels why not answer the phone to the players concerned, agents, buying clubs, etc.?

 

Also if they are that desperate to sell their crown jewels why have players only been sold to the 'big clubs'?

 

Why has Fonte not gone to Cardiff? Are we still waiting for them to up their offer or do we expect a big club to come in with a bid? :/

 

Did Cortese want to sell Lambert to WHU or not and why didn't it happen?

 

Why are others on this form saying that Tadic and Pelle are an upgrade on Lallana and Pelle?

 

Just asking that's all

[Saint Without a Halo]

It is not entirely clear how it could have been, once everyone had woken up to the fact that "the plan" was just a highly improbable pipe-dream.

 

Why was it? it was working and financially stable too!

[kpturner]

Why was it? it was working and financially stable too!

 

Depends on what you class as the "dream". If it was CL football then it clearly wasn't working. We were miles off that, financially stable or not.

[kpturner]

Did Cortese want to sell Lambert to WHU or not and why didn't it happen?

 

It didn't happen because Cortese left and the deal was quickly called off afterwards

[KingdomCome]

There are bits in all of it, really.

 

Section by section:

 

Cortese's departure - multiple reasons (some of which can't be specified as I'd get in all sorts of ****), although it's fairly well known that he put up resistance to ANY control of spending from KL. A suicide mission if ever there was one.

 

Finances - correct with the exception of NC not leaking stuff to the press. He was all over both the Mail (Neil Ashton) and BBC (Ben Smith).

 

Possible sale of club - it's feasible, but the method makes no sense. If there are no buyers at whatever asking price has been set, you either drop the asking price or make the product MORE attractive for the price, not less! Selling the top players arguably drops the value of the club by more than the fees received because of the perception that the club has momentum in the wrong direction.

 

Lallana - feasible, but it's almost the complete opposite of what I'd heard, with the exception of the Man United stuff. He'd wanted out for months, Clattenburg was essentially right - having been away on international duty in November, he believed he'd "made it" and deserved to be at a club that elevated him to the same status as the England regulars. He wasn't entirely thrilled with being subbed off relatively early every game either.

 

Players - NC had lined up a deal with West Ham to sell Rickie Lambert for £7m in January. That deal was hastily pulled as soon as NC walked. Overall lack of communication - certainly true, but for most players, what "communication" are they expecting from the board? Daily briefings with an update of how many shirts with their name on have been sold? Over the summer, players are rightly left to enjoy their own time and not be pestered by club employees (I'd be pretty ****ed off if my boss was phoning me with updates while I was on holiday - the clue's in the name). The only ones who should have expected to have heard something are those who would expect new contract offers in the pipeline - Fonte and Cork being the two prime examples - but I don't see what the fuss was about over Fonte supposedly having received his in writing. I'd want any contract offer I was going to sign in writing before committing to anything.

 

The noise from Alan Cork on Twitter suggests Cork hasn't received an offer at all, let alone an offer that was then withdrawn. I can't say I was ever particularly surprised by that towards the end of last season, it always appeared to me as though Pochettino was never quite convinced with JC, and as he had long since decided he was leaving, why would he care about putting it to the board himself?

 

Pochettino - he'd decided he was off around Christmas. As mental as it sounds, NC was going to sack him in December around the time we had that bad run of injuries and results which tempered our great start to the season. He was talked out of it by a number of senior players, but MP felt he didn't have the trust of NC any longer, so decided he was off, and as the rest of the season wore on, made it very clear what his plan was to many of the players, despite NC's departure in the meantime. He basically advised them all to move on as they may not get another opportunity, so naturally they all got onto their agents and now we have the carnage we see before us today. MP was offered a new deal, and it had been on the table for 2-3 months before he went to Spurs - coincidentally it was offering exactly the same salary as he is now earning at White Hart Lane.

 

Koeman - from people who know him, he will not tolerate players who don't want to play for him. If anyone doesn't want to play for him, they can do one, and he'll bring in replacements who DO want to do so. Given his track record and status in the game, we shouldn't be short of players come the start of the season.

 

Summary - clearly the business has been done the wrong way around, replacements should have been signed before the others were let go, and that falls on the board to carry the can, and KL will have to accept that we'll be spending more for most of our signings than we anticipated as a result.

 

Some of that may turn out to be inaccurate, but those are the corrections to your War and Peace effort as I see them.

Now THAT makes sense.

[washsaint]

Steve Grant - thank you. Your statements feel very accurate and fair. Crab Lungs, on the other hand, could have been written by anyone on here with hindsight.

 

It certainly has felt like Pochettino caused chaos.

 

So long as Koeman stays and we get in good quality players then I will feel marginally less than panicked! Not a great time but hopefully things will improve shortly.

[S-Clarke]

Your post rings a lot of sense to me, Steve.

 

And at least it has a sense of positivity to it. I do honestly believe we're being prepared for a sale though, in an incredibly risk way, but we're being primed for one.

[shurlock]

There are bits in all of it, really.

 

Section by section:

 

Cortese's departure - multiple reasons (some of which can't be specified as I'd get in all sorts of ****), although it's fairly well known that he put up resistance to ANY control of spending from KL. A suicide mission if ever there was one.

 

Finances - correct with the exception of NC not leaking stuff to the press. He was all over both the Mail (Neil Ashton) and BBC (Ben Smith).

 

Possible sale of club - it's feasible, but the method makes no sense. If there are no buyers at whatever asking price has been set, you either drop the asking price or make the product MORE attractive for the price, not less! Selling the top players arguably drops the value of the club by more than the fees received because of the perception that the club has momentum in the wrong direction.

 

Lallana - feasible, but it's almost the complete opposite of what I'd heard, with the exception of the Man United stuff. He'd wanted out for months, Clattenburg was essentially right - having been away on international duty in November, he believed he'd "made it" and deserved to be at a club that elevated him to the same status as the England regulars. He wasn't entirely thrilled with being subbed off relatively early every game either.

 

Players - NC had lined up a deal with West Ham to sell Rickie Lambert for £7m in January. That deal was hastily pulled as soon as NC walked. Overall lack of communication - certainly true, but for most players, what "communication" are they expecting from the board? Daily briefings with an update of how many shirts with their name on have been sold? Over the summer, players are rightly left to enjoy their own time and not be pestered by club employees (I'd be pretty ****ed off if my boss was phoning me with updates while I was on holiday - the clue's in the name). The only ones who should have expected to have heard something are those who would expect new contract offers in the pipeline - Fonte and Cork being the two prime examples - but I don't see what the fuss was about over Fonte supposedly having received his in writing. I'd want any contract offer I was going to sign in writing before committing to anything.

 

The noise from Alan Cork on Twitter suggests Cork hasn't received an offer at all, let alone an offer that was then withdrawn. I can't say I was ever particularly surprised by that towards the end of last season, it always appeared to me as though Pochettino was never quite convinced with JC, and as he had long since decided he was leaving, why would he care about putting it to the board himself?

 

Pochettino - he'd decided he was off around Christmas. As mental as it sounds, NC was going to sack him in December around the time we had that bad run of injuries and results which tempered our great start to the season. He was talked out of it by a number of senior players, but MP felt he didn't have the trust of NC any longer, so decided he was off, and as the rest of the season wore on, made it very clear what his plan was to many of the players, despite NC's departure in the meantime. He basically advised them all to move on as they may not get another opportunity, so naturally they all got onto their agents and now we have the carnage we see before us today. MP was offered a new deal, and it had been on the table for 2-3 months before he went to Spurs - coincidentally it was offering exactly the same salary as he is now earning at White Hart Lane.

 

Koeman - from people who know him, he will not tolerate players who don't want to play for him. If anyone doesn't want to play for him, they can do one, and he'll bring in replacements who DO want to do so. Given his track record and status in the game, we shouldn't be short of players come the start of the season.

 

Summary - clearly the business has been done the wrong way around, replacements should have been signed before the others were let go, and that falls on the board to carry the can, and KL will have to accept that we'll be spending more for most of our signings than we anticipated as a result.

 

Some of that may turn out to be inaccurate, but those are the corrections to your War and Peace effort as I see them.

 

Hit and miss = 6/10 (and that's with points for the cockle-warming, feel-good factor).

 

Parts are more believable than CL's account but other parts strike me as utter tosh.

Edited 29 July, 2014 by shurlock

[St Marco]

Hit and miss = 6/10 (and that's with points for feel-goodery).

 

Parts are more believable than CL's account but other parts sound like utter tosh.

 

Especially the bit about Lambert being sold. If we had accepted a £7m bid why would we then accept a bid half of that offer 4 months later? The whole negative thing towards NC some have on here is pretty funny, because if you read the players comments about him they have nothing but praise for him. Some going as far to say he is really close to them. Even Lambert said about him "I'm not just saying it because I am at Southampton but I think other chairmen need to take a look at how he (Cortese) has done things and make it an example". That was only a few weeks prior to this supposed bid being accepted.

 

And the supposed sacking of MoPo....That is laughable. If that was the case why would he be upset about Cortese leaving and thinking about walking away? Didn't KL have to convince him to stay on?

 

The rest of it is pretty decent but all based on personal opinion.

Edited 29 July, 2014 by St Marco

[the saint in winchester]

Ahahaha... sorry!

 

One other note on player purchases... we're giving (Reed) that everything is under control but there's a lot of frustration from the staff that we're dragging our heels and missing out on some players. Caulker, an example, messing around with the fee then steaming in at the last minute with an acceptable bid and by then it's too late.

 

Well, I agree with that point. Offering 30% of a selling club's asking price creates resentment when trying to deal. We should offer fair values (typically 70% of an asking price) and be prepared to go higher.

 

Overall, Mr Crab Lungs, that for your analysis. I've been optimistic until now but all you say is plausible. To some, it's a good financial model. To others, a recipe for disaster to be selling your assets.

[Saint IQ]

It's all Boruc's fault for fannying around with the ball at the Emirates ffs! All downhill since then.

 

This. The holy goalie... More like the devil Goalie. It's all his fault. Top 4 would of been in the bag if we didn't lose that game

[Dark Munster]

SG's account seems plausible, and has made me put my wrist slitting blades away for a day or two. However, a couple of things I'm not sure about: I can understand that MP would plan his departure, and shit-stir with the players, because NC was about to sack him, but why would he continue that trajectory after NC left? Especially since the club (without NC) offered him a healthy new contract.

 

Also, if players are sold for inflated prices, I can't see the value of the club going down by that amount, yet alone more. As long as there appears to be a strong enough squad to survive (and that's certainly debatable at the moment), it could be a feasible strategy for KL to extract as much as possible before selling.