Halo Stickman Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 Its a fair point - its never a good idea to buy a player just after they've had a decent WC - the price is inflated and so are opinions about ability. This is very true: players can flatter to deceive in major international tournaments. Andreas Jakobsson and Mikael Nilsson looked a lot better playing for Sweden in Euro 2004 than they ever did playing for Saints the following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 (edited) This is very true: players can flatter to deceive in major international tournaments. Andreas Jakobsson and Mikael Nilsson looked a lot better playing for Sweden in Euro 2004 than they ever did playing for Saints the following season. Spot on. WC are not a good yard stick. Some world class players do the biz, some dont and some average players rise to the occasion but cant hack it in the league. Rule of thumb - if you weren't brilliant before the WC and have a brilliant WC, chanes are you will be pants again after. (For WC read Euro too) Edited 7 August, 2014 by sadoldgit spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 So if some one is good in the World Cup and becomes available--don't get him. Weird philosophy, thank goodness we haven't a fan on the board! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 So if some one is good in the World Cup and becomes available--don't get him. Weird philosophy, thank goodness we haven't a fan on the board! I think the point being made is that a player should not be solely judged on their performance over a few games in a tournament. Many clubs have been burnt with that sort of thing. Hopefully Rojo has been scouted before the cup and so we know his quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 I think the point being made is that a player should not be solely judged on their performance over a few games in a tournament. Many clubs have been burnt with that sort of thing. Hopefully Rojo has been scouted before the cup and so we know his quality. Do remember in the Iran game (the argies 2nd game in the group stages iirc), the ITV commentator noting that Chelsea were heavily linked with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portugalsaint Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 It is believed from the fans of Sporting that the price could rise to 20m euros for Rojo. He has been given permission to speak to Southampton officially and Southampton only. The fans are begging him not to go, they think the best is yet to be seen from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 I think the point being made is that a player should not be solely judged on their performance over a few games in a tournament. Many clubs have been burnt with that sort of thing. Hopefully Rojo has been scouted before the cup and so we know his quality. another way to look at it is if he is good enough to make the argentina 1st 11 in a world cup year he must be well fairly good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portugalsaint Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 According to Sporting Lisbon fans he's an extremely good player. He would be a real catch if we can get him. He will get a game playing for Saints whereas if he goes to the bigger clubs he won't be guaranteed a game. I am also looking at their site as they have mentioned Schniedelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cf saint Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 The Sporting fans I speak to seem content if goes for 15+m euros - Portuguese football is broke so they need money and seem to think the team may be improved by the money rather than keeping him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 another way to look at it is if he is good enough to make the argentina 1st 11 in a world cup year he must be well fairly good. I don't have an in depth knowledge of Argentinian left backs so I couldn't answer that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 Do remember in the Iran game (the argies 2nd game in the group stages iirc), the ITV commentator noting that Chelsea were heavily linked with him. Tbf Chelsea get linked with all sorts of players including dross so I don't think that's necessarily an indicator of quality. Still this signing is clearly a step up from some of our other signings this summer if it happens. He will have big shoes to fill in the form of lovren, I hope he is up for the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portugalsaint Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 Sporting fans have also said that they could swap him for Schniedelin !!!! According to their forum. 17m has been turned down today, clearly they are holding out for top euro. He is well worth the money and at least not addicted to Nando's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 7 August, 2014 Share Posted 7 August, 2014 Any fans of other clubs reading SWF would conclude Lambert, would have been sold to the glue factory Lallana, decent player for 65 minutes with a powder puff shot Shaw, rampant addiction to Burger King and can't cross for toffee Lovren, great for 10 games and would be lost without Big Vic and Mad Artur You forgot Chambers who wouldn't be first choice but the above I true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Sporting fans have also said that they could swap him for Schniedelin !!!! According to their forum. 17m has been turned down today, clearly they are holding out for top euro. He is well worth the money and at least not addicted to Nando's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Les I believe in you, now just ****ing put a sensible offer in and get it sorted, ruthless don would have this completed in no time.. Yeah, just like he did with Gastón. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 The rumours on this one seem so weak, plus the money required to release him tends to make me believe this is not going to happen anytime soon. But hey, Reed may be able to mastermind something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 The rumours on this one seem so weak, plus the money required to release him tends to make me believe this is not going to happen anytime soon. But hey, Reed may be able to mastermind something. Not that weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 We're being taken to the cleaners here - we should walk away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Funny sort of cleaners with £80m in reserve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 We're being taken to the cleaners here - we should walk away. We always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSFC Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 We're being taken to the cleaners here - we should walk away. Liverpool, Utd and Arsenal had to reach our premium for players. It works two way you clueless mong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 We're being taken to the cleaners here - we should walk away. A bit like us selling players to Liverpool and Man Utd ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 A bit like us selling players to Liverpool and Man Utd ? we do that, no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Tbf Chelsea get linked with all sorts of players including dross so I don't think that's necessarily an indicator of quality. Still this signing is clearly a step up from some of our other signings this summer if it happens. He will have big shoes to fill in the form of lovren, I hope he is up for the challenge. Remember Asier Del Horno? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 The Sporting fans I speak to seem content if goes for 15+m euros - Portuguese football is broke so they need money and seem to think the team may be improved by the money rather than keeping him. They don't get much of it anyway, I wonder if they actually know that 75% of whatever they get ends up in the coffers of a kazakh backed venture capitalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 We're being taken to the cleaners here - we should walk away. We should, but then we would get the usual suspects on here moaning that a player brought in couldn't possibly be as good as the player sold, unless he costs the same. Here there is a dilemma, as Rojo's position is unclear. If he is a replacement for Shaw, he would have to cost £30 million to be any good, whereas if he is to replace Lovren, then £20 millions should see the moaners satisfied. The more sensible ones would reason that as Lovren only cost £8 million or so just over a year ago, it ought to be possible to replace him for a fairly similar amount with a bit of digging. The inflated price for our players was achived because we didn't need to sell them and several top clubs were after them. In the case of Rojo, I suspect that the need to sell is greater, although there are supposedly others chasing him. It is all simple supply and demand as usual and depends how much we and others want him, and whether an alternative player as good can be had for less money elsewhere. I can't help but feel that Rojo would have been a better fit for our last manager, although him signing Osvaldo points to him not necessarily being capable of getting the most from his fellow countrymen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Remember Asier Del Horno? Kezman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 (edited) We should, but then we would get the usual suspects on here moaning that a player brought in couldn't possibly be as good as the player sold, unless he costs the same. Here there is a dilemma, as Rojo's position is unclear. If he is a replacement for Shaw, he would have to cost £30 million to be any good, whereas if he is to replace Lovren, then £20 millions should see the moaners satisfied. The more sensible ones would reason that as Lovren only cost £8 million or so just over a year ago, it ought to be possible to replace him for a fairly similar amount with a bit of digging. The inflated price for our players was achived because we didn't need to sell them and several top clubs were after them. In the case of Rojo, I suspect that the need to sell is greater, although there are supposedly others chasing him. It is all simple supply and demand as usual and depends how much we and others want him, and whether an alternative player as good can be had for less money elsewhere. I can't help but feel that Rojo would have been a better fit for our last manager, although him signing Osvaldo points to him not necessarily being capable of getting the most from his fellow countrymen. Wrong. Lovren represented a gamble of sorts, having gone off the boil in France (not entirely his fault). More important, as is the case with many foreign players, not least defenders, there were no guarantees that Lovren would take to English football like a duck to water. The £8m we paid for Lovren reflected those risks. The player we sold a year later (mindful it was only one season) had none of those question marks over him. Thus, if we are serious about bringing in like-for-like, we need proven quality - and that is likely to cost well more than £8m. Pontificating about moaners and sensible posters doesn't make your argument any less shoddy. Edited 8 August, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo-Saint Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Wayne Bridge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Kezman. Hopefully Pelle doesn't have the same problems adapting from Dutch football to English football as Kezman did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Swansea in for another Argentinian centre half - Federico Fernandez. Seems to be a lot cheaper than Rojo too. Is he any good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Swansea in for another Argentinian centre half - Federico Fernandez. Seems to be a lot cheaper than Rojo too. Is he any good? Dreadful. Saw him play in a Serie A game v Fiorentina when i was in Naples a while back. Got torn to shreads by the Fiorentina CF. He gave away a penalty, scored an own goal and got sent off. Reminded me of Richard Dryden. Swanseas can have him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Dreadful. Saw him play in a Serie A game v Fiorentina when i was in Naples a while back. Got torn to shreads by the Fiorentina CF. He gave away a penalty, scored an own goal and got sent off. Reminded me of Richard Dryden. Swanseas can have him. bit like Jos Hooiveld, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 bit like Jos Hooiveld, yes? A slightly camper version, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildgoose Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/third-party-owners-brought-into-southampton-deal-it-s-not-over-ye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Kezman. You're not allowed to say bad things about failed signings of Serbian attackers or players who score lots of goals in the Eredivisie, people get touchy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block 5 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Perhaps the company are happy with the deal but the club want their 25% up front. http://I have [urli]cX can io[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Any fans of other clubs reading SWF would conclude Lambert, would have been sold to the glue factory Lallana, decent player for 65 minutes with a powder puff shot Shaw, rampant addiction to Burger King and can't cross for toffee Lovren, great for 10 games and would be lost without Big Vic and Mad Artur Right on the first 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 (edited) I don't have an in depth knowledge of Argentinian left backs so I couldn't answer that question. They have a long-standing history of playing CBs all across the back line - though considering how advanced Rojo was in Argentina's opening game "for a LB" he's not really your typical CB anyway. Edited 8 August, 2014 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 They have a long-standing history of playing CBs all across the back line - though considering how advanced Rojo was in Argentina's opening game "for a LB" he's not really your typical CB anyway. They also played this vvanker for 11 years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 (edited) "Sporting president Bruno de Carvalho confirmed on Thursday that bids had been received for Rojo but he didn't elaborate any further, he's probably not able to at this stage. Southampton have even asked for staged payment, which Sporting are fully against. €4m in one payment is a disappointment, in several it becomes farcical from their perspective." Thought this was interesting, just found a new article on Rojo. Staged payment when we have £92m before tax to spend? Krueger has some explaining to do. http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/third-party-owners-brought-into-southampton-deal-it-s-not-over-ye Edited 8 August, 2014 by SaintRobbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 a couple of reports that our bids are farcical or derisory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 a couple of reports that our bids are farcical or derisory Les certainly is a tough negoiator. Great to see he wont let us be ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 "Sporting president Bruno de Carvalho confirmed on Thursday that bids had been received for Rojo but he didn't elaborate any further, he's probably not able to at this stage. Southampton have even asked for staged payment, which Sporting are fully against. €4m in one payment is a disappointment, in several it becomes farcical from their perspective." Thought this was interesting, just found a new article on Rojo. Staged payment when we have £92m before tax to spend? Krueger has some explaining to do. But we don't have 92 million, most of that is also 'staged' payments, or do you believe we have been paid all those transfer fees up front? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 "Sporting president Bruno de Carvalho confirmed on Thursday that bids had been received for Rojo but he didn't elaborate any further, he's probably not able to at this stage. Southampton have even asked for staged payment, which Sporting are fully against. €4m in one payment is a disappointment, in several it becomes farcical from their perspective." Thought this was interesting, just found a new article on Rojo. Staged payment when we have £92m before tax to spend? Krueger has some explaining to do. http://sportwitness.ning.com/forum/topics/third-party-owners-brought-into-southampton-deal-it-s-not-over-ye Staged payments is common practice, even from the elite clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRobbie Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 a couple of reports that our bids are farcical or derisory I can understand why we would want value for money, but staged payments?? Makes no sense, unless there really are no plans to spend 'every penny from player sales' as the owner/boardroom have other plans for it. Looking dodgier by the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halo Stickman Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 ... we would get the usual suspects on here moaning that a player brought in couldn't possibly be as good as the player sold, unless he costs the same. Here there is a dilemma, as Rojo's position is unclear. If he is a replacement for Shaw, he would have to cost £30 million to be any good, whereas if he is to replace Lovren, then £20 millions should see the moaners satisfied. … not to mention the dilemma of having to find a £16 million right back willing to play in our reserve team for large parts of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 … not to mention the dilemma of having to find a £16 million right back willing to play in our reserve team for large parts of the season. who was that, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 But we don't have 92 million, most of that is also 'staged' payments, or do you believe we have been paid all those transfer fees up front? Its been explained to him endlessly. He's simply too thick to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alain Perrin Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 I think the point being made is that a player should not be solely judged on their performance over a few games in a tournament. Many clubs have been burnt with that sort of thing. Hopefully Rojo has been scouted before the cup and so we know his quality. Two words. Karel Poborsky. Legend in his own lunchtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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