Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Players are assets are they not? If you own a company and want to sell it off the last thing you sell is the building. The contents go first. Now I'm not saying this is what's happening here I am saying from a business perspective it could be seen to be that way. You can't flat out deny it because we bought in some cheaper options. In the grand scheme of things £15m isn't much when you consider we got £88m from last season's tv rights alone. We are in a sound financial footing. The club have said many times we don't need to sell but yet we are? You literally said above this is an asset strip? And now you're saying it isn't. Make your mind up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 If we were asset stripping why would the club have held out for what, quite frankly, is silly money for Lallana (cost more than Kroos and now injured)' Shaw (30m for an 18yo LB), Lovren (Lpool most expensive defender ever), Chambers (16m for 2nd choice RB). Quite clearly we could have sold all of those for a lot less but have played hardball and got offers no club our size (in the world) could turn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Over £100M IN, with only £20M OUT A pretty good return on saleable Assets don't you think ?? Itvis, very impressive, hence why we've sold the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 You mean carry on towards the CCC and Div 1 you mean Still, as the owner, you have got a great wedge safely tucked away in a Swiss Bank Account, so no harm done eh ?? As said above, the guys have been replaced with similar, so it wouldn't make much difference. Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about. The throwing around of technical business terms on this forum as fact is a joke, it's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 In an asset strip, you don't replace assets with high quality replacements. HTH. Sorry, but that is far from being proven. Besides, we are talking about 5+ out, 2 in (with ca.90m PROFIT) from a club already woefully short of squad depth.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 If the CEO came to me and said that our top 5 guys have been head hunted by a large multi national and we can't compete with the package they've provided, but we can replace with similar people from other companies for much less, then I would suck it up and carry on. And you think the CEO can't say no? There is a reason we have notice periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Players are assets are they not? If you own a company and want to sell it off the last thing you sell is the building. The contents go first. Now I'm not saying this is what's happening here I am saying from a business perspective it could be seen to be that way. You can't flat out deny it because we bought in some cheaper options. In the grand scheme of things £15m isn't much when you consider we got £88m from last season's tv rights alone. We are in a sound financial footing. The club have said many times we don't need to sell but yet we are? Yes, and so is cash. It certainly isn't asset-stripping if the assets (of all types) remain in the business. Having said that, you can't play football with a bundle of cash so we should expect to see some of that cash converted into players. Let's not forget that we've made a whopping profit in our book values and there will be a big lot of corporation tax to pay if we're not careful. Perhaps we can offload Osvaldo at a hefty loss, who knows, in a convoluted world maybe that's why we bought him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 You literally said above this is an asset strip? And now you're saying it isn't. Make your mind up. No I said it technically is one as we are selling assets. What I said I don't agree with is selling of infrastructure like buildings etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 (edited) And you think the CEO can't say no? There is a reason we have notice periods. Yes, they can't say no. I got head-hunted, company offered me more to stay which I turned down because they couldn't match my new wages, went on gardening leave for 3 months which was my notice period and joined my new company. Edited 26 July, 2014 by Unbelievable Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Sorry, but that is far from being proven. Besides, we are talking about 5+ out, 2 in (with ca.90m PROFIT) from a club already woefully short of squad depth.... Yes, that's true, but well have to give it a month to see the full picture. We've only had 3 out so far and probably Lovren too so we can't include the possible outs and discount the possible ins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 If we were asset stripping why would the club have held out for what, quite frankly, is silly money for Lallana (cost more than Kroos and now injured)' Shaw (30m for an 18yo LB), Lovren (Lpool most expensive defender ever), Chambers (16m for 2nd choice RB). Quite clearly we could have sold all of those for a lot less but have played hardball and got offers no club our size (in the world) could turn down. I'm not quite sure I've understood your question. Are you really asking why would Katharina want to to hold out and get more money for each player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 No I said it technically is one as we are selling assets. What I said I don't agree with is selling of infrastructure like buildings etc. But THAT is an asset strip. Stop using the incorrect terms for what this is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 No I said it technically is one as we are selling assets. What I said I don't agree with is selling of infrastructure like buildings etc. We're converting assets into cash. That's not stripping unless the cash is withdrawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 But THAT is an asset strip. Stop using the incorrect terms for what this is. Then I suggest you go read the definition of asset stripping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Sorry, but that is far from being proven. Besides, we are talking about 5+ out, 2 in (with ca.90m PROFIT) from a club already woefully short of squad depth.... Let's just wait and see. If we get to Sept. 1st and still have Jos, Mayka and Sharp playing prominent roles in the first time, then we will be gone. But, the club are chasing high, high quality replacements. Until we see who we've signed, we cannot really come to any conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 We're converting assets into cash. That's not stripping unless the cash is withdrawn. The thing is as we are a private company we don't know what happens to that money. Does it all get held in one account for use within the club? Does it get withdrawn to KL? It will be interesting to see by the end of this season how much was reinvested in the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Jeff, stop being an arrogant ****. People don't like to see their clubs first team absolutely savaged with little or no insight into why or what we are going to look like entering another season. You're on here every day getting yourself all worked up about what normal fans are saying whilst slipping in the usual references about you and your job which is just irrelevant. You set your stall out early on this summer and now have to keep the pretence up, merrily seal clapping along with all the actions of the board. It's certainly entertaining to watch though, I'll give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Then I suggest you go read the definition of asset stripping. No, I suggest you do: asset stripping noun the practice of taking over a company in financial difficulties and selling each of its assets separately at a profit without regard for the company's future. The word you want to concentrate on is 'each' which in this situation means every one. Apology accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 (edited) Jeff, stop being an arrogant ****. People don't like to see their clubs first team absolutely savaged with little or no insight into why or what we are going to look like entering another season. You're on here every day getting yourself all worked up about what normal fans are saying whilst slipping in the usual references about you and your job which is just irrelevant. You set your stall out early on this summer and now have to keep the pretence up, merrily seal clapping along with all the actions of the board. It's certainly entertaining to watch though, I'll give you that. And I have said I am disappointed with it, if you want to go back and read my posts. In relation to the job, I am trying to use a real world example so that people can actually understand what is going on. However what we are witnessing is NOT an asset strip and as such should not be classed as one. Edited 26 July, 2014 by Unbelievable Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 No, I suggest you do: asset stripping noun the practice of taking over a company in financial difficulties and selling each of its assets separately at a profit without regard for the company's future. The word you want to concentrate on is 'each' which in this situation means every one. Apology accepted. Oh dear.... So are we not selling assets SEPARATELY then Jeff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Let's just wait and see. If we get to Sept. 1st and still have Jos, Mayka and Sharp playing prominent roles in the first time, then we will be gone. But, the club are chasing high, high quality replacements. Until we see who we've signed, we cannot really come to any conclusions. Are we chasing anyone actually better than we have or did have? I guess you could argue the keeper might push Boruc close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 And I have said I am disappointed with it, if you want to go back and read my posts. However what we are witnessing is NOT an asset strip and as such should not be classed as one. Personally, I don't really care what it is. We have lost and are losing very good players with questionable ability and little time to effectively replace them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 I think Jeff you're being a little too anal here. We are stripping our assets. Ok, so we're not stripping ALL of our assets such as the stadium and training ground but we're stripping the assets which are most easily sold. So whatever you wanna call it, it's bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Oh dear.... So are we not selling assets SEPARATELY then Jeff? What are you misunderstanding here? The main point is for an asset strip is that each and every one of its valuable assets are sold off. That is not happening here, as you admitted above? Am I the only one feeling like they're banging their head against a particularly stupid wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Personally, I don't really care what it is. We have lost and are losing very good players with questionable ability and little time to effectively replace them. I can't deny that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Are we chasing anyone actually better than we have or did have? I guess you could argue the keeper might push Boruc close. Forster will be an improvement, I don't think Rojo would be too bad if we sort that one! And there are still rumours bubbling regarding a deal for De Vrij....but until anything happens either way, we cannot really make a conclusion yet. We'll have a bumpy year next year, that is all but certain, but we may end up being stronger long-term. At the moment, I'm accepting of the situation because I realise we're not a big club - just a small club who managed to get together a group of very talented players. Probably a once in a generation team, but we only finished 8th and didn't win anything. Genius, cheers MP. Fine job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 I think Jeff you're being a little too anal here. We are stripping our assets. Ok, so we're not stripping ALL of our assets such as the stadium and training ground but we're stripping the assets which are most easily sold. So whatever you wanna call it, it's bad. It's not good, I agree, but by definition it is not an asset strip. That is my point and my problem with this thread. We are just selling a lot of players at extremely good prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 What are you misunderstanding here? The main point is for an asset strip is that each and every one of its valuable assets are sold off. That is not happening here, as you admitted above? Am I the only one feeling like they're banging their head against a particularly stupid wall? I understand it perfectly well. You however don't. You seem to think Asset stripping means selling all the assets at the same time. That to be classified as an asset strip you have to sell the buildings and facilities. Which isn't correct. Many companies find more value in the contents then in the infrastructure. Ours is a prime example of that. Our value comes from our players who are our main assets. We make more money by selling them then we would by selling the training grounds, the stadium etc. Our business is football and our assets are football players. By the end of the weekend we could have sold 6 of the 24 assets we have. All within a short time frame. That is asset stripping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Kin hell we are selling players for very very good values and replacing them with what the manager regards as better if not the same ability players. Stop making out there is a massive agenda, we make huge profit on players and replace them with possibly better for cheaper. Fantastic business running I would say, but time will tell if players coming in will be better than those going out. In my opinion lambert and Lallana going to be replaced by tadic and pelle with money left is a fantastic deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Asset stripping, farming. Pick a word not good either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 I understand it perfectly well. You however don't. You seem to think Asset stripping means selling all the assets at the same time. That to be classified as an asset strip you have to sell the buildings and facilities. Which isn't correct. Many companies find more value in the contents then in the infrastructure. Ours is a prime example of that. Our value comes from our players who are our main assets. We make more money by selling them then we would by selling the training grounds, the stadium etc. Our business is football and our assets are football players. By the end of the weekend we could have sold 6 of the 24 assets we have. All within a short time frame. That is asset stripping. I think we'll have to agree to disagree. For me (and definition wise) asset stripping includes selling all valuable assets and removing that money from the company, only leaving debts. For you it obviously isn't, and it seems like any amount of Internet definitions won't make any difference to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 If Chambers is sold It seems that KL wants to get her investment back. Whether she will sell the carcass only time will tell. Everybody mentions the transfer money in but what hasn't been pointed out is the money from the TV we also have coming in. In May we had the most valuable game in the world the Championship playoff where the winner gets part of the massive PL pot, we are already in that Club. I posted sometime ago it was a cloaked asset strip, I was wrong in my wording it is a cloaked return of investment. Take in 100+m and spend 30ish The RUMOUR/ talk I heard of KL wanting 200m for the club but somebody wanting to give 100, and so KL creams the other 100 from player sales may have a little substance. Of course if we spend 50m next week and I am wrong again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintSteve Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Players are assets are they not? If you own a company and want to sell it off the last thing you sell is the building. The contents go first. Now I'm not saying this is what's happening here I am saying from a business perspective it could be seen to be that way. You can't flat out deny it because we bought in some cheaper options. In the grand scheme of things £15m isn't much when you consider we got £88m from last season's tv rights alone. We are in a sound financial footing. The club have said many times we don't need to sell but yet we are? Agreed... its unclear as to why we are progressing down this route as its clearly not financial, unless KL wants out. To say a club cannot stop players leaving is total nonsense. To say we are replacing players with high quality players is pure guesswork as neither have played in the PL. I also believe Koeman did not sign up to this scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Oh dear.... So are we not selling assets SEPARATELY then Jeff? 'Without regard to the company's future' is the important bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Marco Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 I think we'll have to agree to disagree. For me (and definition wise) asset stripping includes selling all valuable assets and removing that money from the company, only leaving debts. For you it obviously isn't, and it seems like any amount of Internet definitions won't make any difference to you. We will have to agree to disagree then. Lots of companies sell their main assets before selling the company. That's the best way to maximise profits. If the company was struggling then it would sell anything and everything of value and then shut down. In that sense I don't think that is happening here. What I do think COULD be happening is KL is possibly looking to sell or reclaim the investment she and her father have put into the club plus interest. It is far easier to do that by selling parts of the company then sell the whole company. Time will see if that is right or not. I honestly hope it isn't. But when you see her say she wants to take the club forward and put trust in our youngsters then sell said youngsters it's hard to believe her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Worst fact about asset strip is that they have removed any joy from watching academy players play for us. We know now in 12 months they'll flog reed, jwp and targett if there's any interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallyboy Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 While I too am uncomfortable with some of the sales, I'll only kick-off if we don't strengthen. I think we've been unlucky with clubs making us offers only a madman would reject. People have paid stupid money for a couple of players. I would have thought that an asset-stripper wouldn't bring in a decent manager or sign anyone. Also, if the manager was asked whether he could replace Chambers or Shaw for £10M, he might have replacements up his sleeve tomorrow. Might....so I'll give the board time to rebuild, and if they don't, then I'll start shouting and chucking things around. The next couple of weeks will confirm the next five year plan, or demonstrate that we don't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 I very much doubt Koeman would have took the job if there wasn't serious money to invest in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 It appears a lot of Saints fans don't understand the following... Asset stripping In an "asset strip" you don't buy £18.9m worth of replacements (with more to come) and a £30m+ upgrade of the training ground. We'd be signing free transfers like Aston Villa have been doing with Senderos, Cole and Richardson. Fire sale A "fire sale" by definition is selling things at bargain basement prices. Saints are selling for huge prices to huge clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjwills Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 I dont think we are out right asset stripping, i think we are selling players at very high prices so we can then buy a replacement and have there wages paid for this season with the spare cash, and after if there is any profit, im sure there will be KL will take some, i am happy with that as long we do get in replacements. LB DC Winger are needed now if Lorven Chambers and Morgan stayed, so if they also go we need to replace them 3 as well, i do feel we need a spare GK, but i would rather we chase postions we are in need of. If not we are gonna be playing alot of Youth and we will get relegated but have a good championship team with plenty of money, however i really can not see that happening with RK as manager. At this rate of player sales, Tadic & Pelle must be on £750,000 a week ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Rooney Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 It appears a lot of Saints fans don't understand the following... Asset stripping In an "asset strip" you don't buy £18.9m worth of replacements (with more to come) and a £30m+ upgrade of the training ground. We'd be signing free transfers like Aston Villa have been doing with Senderos, Cole and Richardson. Fire sale A "fire sale" by definition is selling things at bargain basement prices. Saints are selling for huge prices to huge clubs. exactly this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 It appears a lot of Saints fans don't understand the following... Asset stripping In an "asset strip" you don't buy £18.9m worth of replacements (with more to come) and a £30m+ upgrade of the training ground. We'd be signing free transfers like Aston Villa have been doing with Senderos, Cole. Fire sale A "fire sale" by definition is selling things at bargain basement prices. Saints are selling for huge prices to huge clubs. You do invest in a training ground if the plan is to repeatedly strip any assets of value coming through the academy. That's renewable asset stripping or harvesting if you like the term better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Worst fact about asset strip is that they have removed any joy from watching academy players play for us. We know now in 12 months they'll flog reed, jwp and targett if there's any interest. See, I've never had that joy because I've always known that they would be sold off. It's like running a pig farm, you know that they'll all end up as bacon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Asset stripping, farming. Pick a word not good either way. This. You can wrapped up in the definitive terminology being used but the club is losing it's assets, albeit for premium prices. At this point they are not being replaced on a 1:1 basis so yes we are losing our net assets whichever way you want to dress it up. Maybe we'll see replacements come in. Maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 You do invest in a training ground if the plan is to repeatedly strip any assets of value coming through the academy. That's renewable asset stripping or harvesting if you like the term better. How do you propose Saints keep hold of players when some of the biggest and richest clubs in World football make large offers (both in terms of transfer fees and wages)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 See, I've never had that joy because I've always known that they would be sold off. It's like running a pig farm, you know that they'll all end up as bacon. It's the timescales that have killed the joy. 3/4 years of joy of seeing them play for saints would be ok. The new sell them the instant they show promise kill it's completely for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 How do you propose Saints keep hold of players when some of the biggest and richest clubs in World football make large offers (both in terms of transfer fees and wages)? You could just say no to chambers Do you think he would go on strike? I would be amazed if there haven't been bids for Barkley and stones, yet you don't see them desperate to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Worst fact about asset strip is that they have removed any joy from watching academy players play for us. We know now in 12 months they'll flog reed, jwp and targett if there's any interest. Christ alive. Look up what an asset strip really means - it's not what is happening here. Where were you when Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-C were sold? It has always gone on and always will - even "bigger" teams like Spuds sell their best players - Bale, Modric. The big clubs have got lazy and have the spending power not to have to develop their own talent - they just by other clubs. Unless and until rules are put in place where so many first team players have to come from a club's academy, nothing will change. Thank The Lord we have a world class academy whilst all this is going on or we would really be screwed. Dose of realism needed for lots of people on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 It's the timescales that have killed the joy. 3/4 years of joy of seeing them play for saints would be ok. The new sell them the instant they show promise kill it's completely for me. That would have been nice but it's not the modern way on the football world. What I don't understand is why the bigger clubs don't follow our model. Why aren't they buying up the academy instead of its products? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 26 July, 2014 Share Posted 26 July, 2014 Look on the bright side. With all this income, we're not likely to go into administration again this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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