alpine_saint Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 This has got to be simply the most perfect-named thread ever started. Transfer rumours ONLY We are so being bullsh*tted by the board. 90m banked, f**k all being spent. 2 weeks to go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Guan's ITK status is taking a bit of a battering lately tbh. So we had a deal sorted yesterday but were just waiting until today to announce it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 It's starting to, yes. It is starting to look, more and more, that the club are stringing fans along. If they're not (and I count myself as someone that still, just, thinks they're not) then someone might want to teach Les, Ron, Ralph and Co about the practice of "under promise and over deliver". For our friend from the World Economic Forum it might be worth a chapter in a future book. In German/French only, of course. If you think that PR is important then yes, maybe it matters, but as to the strict details about whether a new signing is made by Monday, Tuesday, or whatever then I for one am not going to get hot and bothered over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Where is it then? Sales from Chambers, Lovren, Shaw, Lallana and Lambert = £92m, no? NO Where do you get that figure from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Les putting in small bids again ?? #NCFC insist no suitable offer has been tabled for #QPR and #Saintsfc target Leroy Fer: http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9406731/Transfer-news-Neil-Adams-says-Norwich-City-are-yet-to-accept-offer-for-Leroy-Fer … pic.twitter.com/9AfbWvmAYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Where is it then? Sales from Chambers, Lovren, Shaw, Lallana and Lambert = £92m, no? Some could be paid in installments? Anyway I'd rather have three strong, careful-spending, transfer windows than one where we blow our load in one go. Whether this window counts as the first of those, we wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Third Division South Days Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Where is it then? Sales from Chambers, Lovren, Shaw, Lallana and Lambert = £92m, no? Wasn't the Staplewood development funded by a £30m loan from the Leiber family. Perhaps there is an element of repayment going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djharvey Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 These deals are rarely paid all up front, we still have to pay for the players we bought previously, there are other payments involved (to Bournemouth, for example), agents' fees, potential tax liabilities. Most of it is a big paperwork exercise. It will all go through the clubs account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 NO Where do you get that figure from? Lallana £25m, Shaw £27m, Lambert £4m, Lovren £20m, Chambers £16m = £92m no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Some could be paid in installments? Anyway I'd rather have three strong, careful-spending, transfer windows than one where we blow our load in one go. Whether this window counts as the first of those, we wait and see. The problem with that is that the third window could be a Championship window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 If you think that PR is important then yes, maybe it matters, but as to the strict details about whether a new signing is made by Monday, Tuesday, or whatever then I for one am not going to get hot and bothered over it. If you bothered to actually read what I wrote you will see that first I am not "hot and bothered" about anything. And secondly I am making a point a wee bit wider than simply the day of the week "a new signing" is made on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hackedoff Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 This has got to be simply the most perfect-named thread ever started. Transfer rumours ONLY We are so being bullsh*tted by the board. 90m banked, f**k all being spent. 2 weeks to go... Glad someone else can see this. According to some the board are so great that when they sit down, the sun goes in. Hope I am wrong but it looks like we are going to end up with the scaps at best , there is something very wrong with the club that's why so many want out and so few are keen to come. Lowe went down this road, got in Redknap with his loans and freebies, look what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldNick Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 First it was waiting for the manager then the WC in the way, I assume the anniversary of the start of WW1 is holding things up. Im sorry but the board are playing so many for fools. Go back and look at posts at the end of the season and a few posters were pointing it out as it is panning out now. Taking in 100m and spending if lucky 30m. I desperately hope those predictions are false but at this moment in time!!!! I do agree that you don't need to spend for spending sake, but replacing solid players at the top of their games for loan players is a massive risk, especially as they can slink back to their parent clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Les putting in small bids again ?? #NCFC insist no suitable offer has been tabled for #QPR and #Saintsfc target Leroy Fer: http://www.teamtalk.com/news/2483/9406731/Transfer-news-Neil-Adams-says-Norwich-City-are-yet-to-accept-offer-for-Leroy-Fer … pic.twitter.com/9AfbWvmAYA Not suitable for Norwich doesn't have to mean small does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 We are yet again facing a season start woefully equipped in the central defence positions. I'd like to know why this keeps happening, whoever the manager/chairman/owner is. Why did we let Lovren go before securing a replacement ? This has Fitz Hall written all over it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 We are yet again facing a season start woefully equipped in the central defence positions. I'd like to know why this keeps happening, whoever the manager/chairman/owner is. Why did we let Lovren go before securing a replacement ? Its not just there alps, we must be atleast 4 players of quality short, quite how they are aiming to integrate them within 2 weeks is another matter Also, we have been told that we are looking at spending the entire 70m (minus average wages so around 50m fees) on playing staff. If we bring in schelotto and taider on loan then are we going to buy another two players at an average value of 20m ? Its not going to happen is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 I agree about central defence, key position, but don't panic, I still expect a big signing from Celtic or Villa to sort that out. As for other places, I'm quietly confident that the signings are going to be adequate replacements for what we've lost and after the Osvaldo experience there is everything to be said for season long loans with the option to buy rather than blowing millions on a misfit. So, so far so good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 (edited) We are yet again facing a season start woefully equipped in the central defence positions. I'd like to know why this keeps happening, whoever the manager/chairman/owner is. Why did we let Lovren go before securing a replacement ? This has Fitz Hall written all over it.. When was the last time? Plus as there are still 13 days until the first game, there is still time to buy another centre back. In the successful part of 2012/13 we had a defence of Boruc, Clyne, Shaw, Fonte, Yoshida. Currently we are only one player different to that, plus we now have Wanyama as an addition. Its not a defence that will get us to upper mid table, but likewise it isn't a relegation fodder defence some people are making it out to be as the latter part of 12/13 showed. Edited 4 August, 2014 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Lallana £25m, Shaw £27m, Lambert £4m, Lovren £20m, Chambers £16m = £92m no? Don't believe all the headline figures in the media. Remember that what you see if the total potential value of the deal. How much of that do we actually get for Lallana? Possibly a clear £12m after Bourmemouth get their cut. The full figure includes all sorts of hypothetical add-ons which are certainly not paid up front. Chambers, fee 'undisclosed', believed to be in the region of... £16m Lambert, 'about £4m' but reportedly £0.5m to Bristol Rovers Lovren 'reports putting the figure at £20m' and we still have to pay for him. Shaw, 'believed to have cost in excess of £30m' with figures varying from £27m to £33m. Nobody knows how much of this is dependent on future conditions. It is rare for a transfer fee to be paid all in one go and for various accountancy reasons both clubs usually prefer to spread the payments over several years. Somebody has to pay the agent's fees which are typically 10% and paid by the buying club. International deals are something else: 'Fifa statistics show 28% of transfer fees go to agents and third parties' http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/08/fifa-transfers-agents-third-parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 If you bothered to actually read what I wrote you will see that first I am not "hot and bothered" about anything. And secondly I am making a point a wee bit wider than simply the day of the week "a new signing" is made on. Yes, sorry if I upset you but I was really referring to a wider readership. When I asked 'Does it matter' I was referring to and earlier post by someone else. I read everything you write, wouldn't miss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 People do know that you cant just use a company as a private ATM and pay company money into private bank accounts right? No-one is that ignorant... I've noticed this has been ignored again, something that I have and I'm pretty sure Whitey G have pointed out. But hey, who cares about stuff like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 I've noticed this has been ignored again, something that I have and I'm pretty sure Whitey G have pointed out. But hey, who cares about stuff like that? e How do we know what Loan notes were issued against the company when the debt conversion was done last year ??? Loan notes can be withdrawn by the owner at any time . Also you are forgeting she is the sole owner therefore she can force any resolution she wishes to and may choose to pay an equity dividend of 70m to herself . In short money can be removed by a sole owner in many ways . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 money can be removed by a sole owner in many ways . At year end after board approval. Thats different to pocketing whatever cash she feels like when it comes in - which is what some are suggesting has happended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 e How do we know what Loan notes were issued against the company when the debt conversion was done last year ??? Loan notes can be withdrawn by the owner at any time . Also you are forgeting she is the sole owner therefore she can force any resolution she wishes to and may choose to pay an equity dividend of 70m to herself . In short money can be removed by a sole owner in many ways . Would she not have to pay what can only be described as an utter **** ton in corporation tax as they're removing profit from the business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lickierambert Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Atletico (La Liga champions) want Javier Hernandez according to the Guardian, to replace Costa and David Villa. Not bad for a guy that can't hold the ball up, pass or play in a 4-3-3, and would have to play third fiddle behind Sam Gallagher and Pelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 At year end after board approval. Thats different to pocketing whatever cash she feels like when it comes in - which is what some are suggesting has happended. She can call a extraordinary board meeting (like the one last Wednesday) and force a resolution at any time . She doesnt have to wait for year end . and as I said before corporation tax doesnt apply if she takes it as loan note repayment or equity dividend . It her toy !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Would she not have to pay what can only be described as an utter **** ton in corporation tax as they're removing profit from the business? The tax is paid on profits anyway. Then the remaining surplus can be distributed in dividends to shareholders who are themselves subject to any further income tax in the UK, with an allowance credit for the Corporation Tax already taken at 21%. Loans can be repaid at any time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Specifically, if we had kept last year's team together, we would have been limited to total wage increases of approximately 4 million pounds. That would include the wages of new players, and pay increases for Cork and other players signing new contracts. Quite clearly, that would not have been enough money to improve the team. In other words, players had to be sold for a profit for the team to progress. I discuss this on my blog: redsloscf.BlogSpot.com The blogs are very informative. Thank you for posting the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 The tax is paid on profits anyway. Then the remaining surplus can be distributed in dividends to shareholders who are themselves subject to any further income tax in the UK, with an allowance credit for the Corporation Tax already taken at 21%. Loans can be repaid at any time. unlikely a swiss national will receive dividend credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 unlikely a swiss national will receive dividend credit. LOL - Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 unlikely a swiss national will receive dividend credit. Well we're getting into very complicated issues here and maybe multi-national company payments but the UK does have a double taxation agreement with Switzerland of some sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 LOL - Why? You really want to know? http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/app_dtt.htm The UK keeps the tax but the other country may make an allowance for this having been paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Don't believe all the headline figures in the media. Remember that what you see if the total potential value of the deal. How much of that do we actually get for Lallana? Possibly a clear £12m after Bourmemouth get their cut. The full figure includes all sorts of hypothetical add-ons which are certainly not paid up front. Chambers, fee 'undisclosed', believed to be in the region of... £16m Lambert, 'about £4m' but reportedly £0.5m to Bristol Rovers Lovren 'reports putting the figure at £20m' and we still have to pay for him. Shaw, 'believed to have cost in excess of £30m' with figures varying from £27m to £33m. Nobody knows how much of this is dependent on future conditions. It is rare for a transfer fee to be paid all in one go and for various accountancy reasons both clubs usually prefer to spread the payments over several years. Somebody has to pay the agent's fees which are typically 10% and paid by the buying club. International deals are something else: 'Fifa statistics show 28% of transfer fees go to agents and third parties' http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/jan/08/fifa-transfers-agents-third-parties No one knows what the exact figure the club banked is right now, all we have to go on is newspaper reports and figures from there, I highly doubt we only pocketed £12m from the Lallana deal personally, but it's all semantics anyway really. The bottom line is we've got a sh_it-ton of money to spend, and I'm sure we've got many targets lined up in order to spend some of it wisely. Guan said only a few days ago that we're spending £70m if we get all our targets we want etc. including wages, signing on fees etc. so about £55-60m roundabouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 First it was waiting for the manager then the WC in the way, I assume the anniversary of the start of WW1 is holding things up. Im sorry but the board are playing so many for fools. Go back and look at posts at the end of the season and a few posters were pointing it out as it is panning out now. Taking in 100m and spending if lucky 30m. I desperately hope those predictions are false but at this moment in time!!!! I do agree that you don't need to spend for spending sake, but replacing solid players at the top of their games for loan players is a massive risk, especially as they can slink back to their parent clubs. I did warn everyone back in May but was lambasted for being negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 I did warn everyone back in May but was lambasted for being negative. Do you ever bore yourself with the incessant negative rambling? You were even complaining during the successive promotions! Or is this some kind of superstitious thing you do... write post after post of negative tripe believing that it will mean Saints perform better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/392673/Aston-Villa-boss-Paul-Lambert-Southampton-and-Man-United-target-Ron-Vlaar-wants-to-stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Well we're getting into very complicated issues here and maybe multi-national company payments but the UK does have a double taxation agreement with Switzerland of some sort. Maybe Switzerland is different. The last tax haven I researched relating to dividend taxation, an individual had no entitlement to double taxation relief even though there was a double taxation agreement and the net figure was taxed by their local tax man. It looks like the holding company is owned 100% personally by KL now (this is a new development. previously 50% KL and 50% ML whatever that meant) so the somewhat clearer provisions relating to witholding tax from dividends swiss companies owning significant stakes in UK companies look like they won't apply here. I've been trying to get my head around the way HMRC's website explains and then calculates tax credits under double taxation without success, but then I stumbled on the most salient point The entitlement to tax credits in relation to dividends paid by companies resident in the UK to residents in Switzerland will be terminated for dividends paid on or after April 6, 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Ron Vlaar REJECTS Southampton interest and opts for Aston Villa stay http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/495583/Ron-Vlaar-REJECTS-Southampton-interest-and-opts-for-Aston-Villa-stay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 I've noticed this has been ignored again, something that I have and I'm pretty sure Whitey G have pointed out. But hey, who cares about stuff like that? There is one sole owner of the club she owns everything lock stock and barrel if you can't see that keep your head in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 4 August, 2014 Share Posted 4 August, 2014 Art - that;s what the headline says but read the article and there is nothing to suggest that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 Ron Vlaar REJECTS Southampton interest and opts for Aston Villa stay http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/495583/Ron-Vlaar-REJECTS-Southampton-interest-and-opts-for-Aston-Villa-stay ...and Morgan Schneiderlin will stay at SFC! Time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewildered Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 Art - that;s what the headline says but read the article and there is nothing to suggest that is the case. Indeed, a lot of what Lambert says is somewhat reminiscent of the vaguely positive, yet non committal guff Reed, Krueger and Pochettino himself used to spout prior to MP's departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 You really want to know? http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/app_dtt.htm The UK keeps the tax but the other country may make an allowance for this having been paid. Thanks for that link. If I am going to keep blogging about this stuff I may have to learn some UK tax law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 Just smoke and mirrors from the board. They never intended to spend more than 35M this summer so the other 50M (so far) is sitting bank account in Switzerland and making more money for the account holder. The smoke and mirrors--as you call it--is in part necessitated by the BPL salary cap rules. See my blog for more details: redsloscf.BlogSpot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 Ron Vlaar REJECTS Southampton interest and opts for Aston Villa stay http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/495583/Ron-Vlaar-REJECTS-Southampton-interest-and-opts-for-Aston-Villa-stay Typical Red Top sh!te. So so gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiSaint Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 http://www.football365.com/f365-says/9399259/Saints-Still-Alive-Despite-Relegation-Talk... May be too positive for many on here..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 I do think we still have a decent team on paper even without any new signings but if we sustained any injuries (especially to Pelle and Fonte) we would be in serious trouble. I am a little concerned that our last three signings have all been on loan (especially Schelotto who doesn't sound brilliant). I think the consolation for most fans about selling players was that we received serious cash to re-invest but as it stands we simply haven't done it. I do think we are biding our time to get players in at the right price, but the board have to understand that the fans need to see some kind of statement of intent by spending some money and that simply hasn't materialized. Loans are fine for the medium term but next summer we will have to do a major rebuild again. I still think we will end up getting a couple more decent permanent signings in but the way the board have gone about things this summer is as bad as even the most optimistic fan could have imagined. The failure to secure top targets in a timely manner could cost us and make it a particularly painful season. I think we will scrape survival but it won't be easy and it certainly won't be enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmonton Saint Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 We are yet again facing a season start woefully equipped in the central defence positions. I'd like to know why this keeps happening, whoever the manager/chairman/owner is. Why did we let Lovren go before securing a replacement ? This has Fitz Hall written all over it.. I agree. We are two injuries away from a back four containing Davis and Hooiveld. As recent history shows, that is a SCARY prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 Ron Vlaar REJECTS Southampton interest and opts for Aston Villa stay http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/495583/Ron-Vlaar-REJECTS-Southampton-interest-and-opts-for-Aston-Villa-stay Or http://metro.co.uk/2014/08/04/paul-lambert-plans-formal-talks-with-aston-villa-captain-ron-vlaar-in-bid-to-see-off-southampton-interest-4820739/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToreSF Posted 5 August, 2014 Share Posted 5 August, 2014 Samaras possibly signing today according to some journos on twitter. I wonder which of our 30 scouts discovered him ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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