irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 sorry, but a man getting paid millions of pounds to have a kick-a-bout and keep fit a few hours a day, suggesting that he is being treated 'horrifically' is not something I am interested in taking seriously I at no point said BORUC was being treated horrifically. I said people seem to think it is fine for footballers to be treated however because they earn a lot
Sour Mash Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 My whole point is that i think koeman has handled entire situation wrongly. But he is the manager and he will sink or swim by his decisions. But what kind of message is he sending out here to rest of squad? If i buy someone then doesn't matter how good you are my purchase will play ahead of you. That is not good for squad harmony He is sending out the message that f he buys a player that he considers better than the current player in that position, he will play the player he considers better. The same policy used by pretty much every manager at every club for many years.
Bearsy Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 But what kind of message is he sending out here to rest of squad? If i buy someone then doesn't matter how good you are my purchase will play ahead of you To be fair most of our bros are gonna play pretty much regardless of form. How many open goals would Pelle have to miss before he gets dropped for Gallagher?
James Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 He is sending out the message that f he buys a player that he considers better than the current player in that position, he will play the player he considers better. The same policy used by pretty much every manager at every club for many years. Nail on the head.
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 It's not exactly saying that though is it? Forster is not going to be first choice purely because he was bought by Koeman, it's because Koeman views Forster as better (which is obvious seeing as he decided to spend big money). Clubs strengthen all the time, it's up to the existing players to up their game. RK said Forster will be no.1 on arrival, it's now up to Boruc to convince him he is wrong. Obviously at the moment the situation suits southampton. Two decent goalies. Maybe Forster will be amazing or maybe he'll concede some of goals i have seen him concede playing for celtic. Point you are all missing is that boruc will not win his place back no matter how hard he trains as Koeman does not rate him and is only interested in him warming the bench which boruc isnt interested in doing
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 He is sending out the message that f he buys a player that he considers better than the current player in that position, he will play the player he considers better. The same policy used by pretty much every manager at every club for many years. Right then fine. Boruc can leave and get on with his career for someone who does consider him good enough to be first choice. Koeman as i have said is gaffer so who plays is his choice.
Goatboy Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Obviously at the moment the situation suits southampton. Two decent goalies. Maybe Forster will be amazing or maybe he'll concede some of goals i have seen him concede playing for celtic. Point you are all missing is that boruc will not win his place back no matter how hard he trains as Koeman does not rate him and is only interested in him warming the bench which boruc isnt interested in doing So do you think the 'crap' Davis or Gazzaniga will be picked ahead of Artur?
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 So do you think the 'crap' Davis or Gazzaniga will be picked ahead of Artur? I think Artur is doing everything to get himself a new club and clubs only choice will be those two
Window Cleaner Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 As in all these situations Sunday will be the acid test. Forster will play then, we'll see how he gets on, know nothing about him myself.
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 As in all these situations Sunday will be the acid test. Forster will play then, we'll see how he gets on, know nothing about him myself. The season over all will be the acid test of how everything that has gone on affects the club
farawaysaint Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Right then fine. Boruc can leave and get on with his career for someone who does consider him good enough to be first choice. Koeman as i have said is gaffer so who plays is his choice. He has 1 year left on his contract and then can leave on a free and have his pick of any club as he'll be a massively attractive option. We are unlikely to be able to get much in the way of a fee for Artur and certainly not what he is worth to us as a player, the club would be mad to sell.
SimplyRed&White Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 When a club spends £10m on a player which I understand is the third highest ever paid for a goalkeeper then they must think he is worth his place starting. That does not mean Borac is not rated. To improve the side you do not buy bench warmers. You buy to strengthen the first team on the pitch and have an excellent alternative back up in the squad. That is what op class clubs do regularly. That is why squad players ear so much in those top teams. I am sue Borac is bitterly disappointed to find himself second choice but he is a professional and should work to regain his place and give good competition to Forster. If Forster does not come up to the high standard expected Borac will get back in. Koeman is a good manager and will pick the best player.
Window Cleaner Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 The season over all will be the acid test of how everything that has gone on affects the club Indeed it will, but the first couple of games will give us an idea of where we are. Liverpool away and West Brom at home, got 6 points from those games last season I think. 4 would be good this time round.
Goatboy Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 He has 1 year left on his contract and then can leave on a free and have his pick of any club as he'll be a massively attractive option. We are unlikely to be able to get much in the way of a fee for Artur and certainly not what he is worth to us as a player, the club would be mad to sell. Exactly, and Artur will be a much better proposition for clubs next year if he stays professional and keeps himself fit. It may have been easy to hang on to the no.1 shirt last year but how does he act when there is a challenge?
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 He has 1 year left on his contract and then can leave on a free and have his pick of any club as he'll be a massively attractive option. We are unlikely to be able to get much in the way of a fee for Artur and certainly not what he is worth to us as a player, the club would be mad to sell. Because saints want him sitting on bench as back up. In case of an injury to Forster
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Exactly, and Artur will be a much better proposition for clubs next year if he stays professional and keeps himself fit. It may have been easy to hang on to the no.1 shirt last year but how does he act when there is a challenge? I am TELLING you in your managers eyes there is no challenge
Colinjb Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 I am TELLING you in your managers eyes there is no challenge Regardless, it will still do him best to be professional and do his job.
Goatboy Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 I am TELLING you in your managers eyes there is no challenge The challenge is changing the manager's mind.
Saint Charlie Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Pretty much every club has a no 1 keeper and the idea of there being a serious challenge is just lip service. De Gea isn't being challenged by Lingard. Some of the very top sides have two good keepers, but could anyone see Begovic being dropped by Stoke, or Guzan by Villa? Of course not.
richard Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 (edited) I am TELLING you in your managers eyes there is no challenge Yes there is. If forster makes a couple of small but costly mistakes or gets injured then Boruc will be back in the team, guaranteed. That's what healthy competition for places is about. Edited 12 August, 2014 by richard EDIT: added the word costly.
Colinjb Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 (edited) Pretty much every club has a no 1 keeper and the idea of there being a serious challenge is just lip service. De Gea isn't being challenged by Lingard. Some of the very top sides have two good keepers, but could anyone see Begovic being dropped by Stoke, or Guzan by Villa? Of course not. No, but you still need a professional and capable number two who will push them. Guzan is backed up by Shay Given after all. Begovic by Jack Butland. De Gea was under serious pressure and actually dropped for a short time after making a few blunders, Lindegaard stood in for a few games in 2012 after he joined. We badly needed that depth to keep Artur on his toes and now we have the depth required in that position. If Artur doesn't have the attitude to knuckle down then it may be best for him to go, but only after we have brought in a more capable back-up who can keep that competition going. Edited 12 August, 2014 by Colinjb
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Naturally as saints fans you all want what is best for your club not individual players
UpweySaint Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Its a discussion. I'm not saying boruc has a right to play. There only though seems to be a few on here that see implications of damage this could cause in bigger picture. Ive even stated it is Koemans choice and he will be one who sinks or swims by his decisions The implications are clear but is that not a risk of making any new signing? It is part of football, it is a squad game. A new player comes in it us up to you to prove you are a better candidate for the position.
Colinjb Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 (edited) Naturally as saints fans you all want what is best for your club not individual players After the summer when so many of our loved stars f**ked us royally, Now more the ever the overall good of the club itself and our long term prospects will be more important then any of our individuals. My personal opinion of the footballer couldn't be much lower. Edited 12 August, 2014 by Colinjb
saint_ed Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Naturally as saints fans you all want what is best for your club not individual players We still love you Artur.
Jimmy_D Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 I am TELLING you in your managers eyes there is no challenge For "big money doesn't guarantee starting place"; see Ramirez. See also; Osvaldo. If Boruc is still the best keeper we have, he'll play. He's had a long time at Saints with no competition, so now he'll have to work for it.
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 For "big money doesn't guarantee starting place"; see Ramirez. See also; Osvaldo. If Boruc is still the best keeper we have, he'll play. He's had a long time at Saints with no competition, so now he'll have to work for it. Yes but Forster will be afforded that starting role - it is his to lose rather than to earn. Boruc is starting from a disadvantaged position in that respect.
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Yes but Forster will be afforded that starting role - it is his to lose rather than to earn. Boruc is starting from a disadvantaged position in that respect. Someone who actually see's the point. Thank you
farawaysaint Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Someone who actually see's the point. Thank you We are all agreeing with you on that point; we also all think Artur should stay, this is the point of contention, not that it is unfair if he is to lose his place in the starting line-up.
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 We are all agreeing with you on that point; we also all think Artur should stay, this is the point of contention, not that it is unfair if he is to lose his place in the starting line-up. Why should he sit on the saints bench when he could have sat on bayerns for a lot more money? But turned them down as he wants to play every week and play for his country. If club refuse to let him go then he will be a professional about it
Batman Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Why should he sit on the saints bench when he could have sat on bayerns for a lot more money? But turned them down as he wants to play every week and play for his country. If club refuse to let him go then he will be a professional about it he cant, unless he wants to be 3rd choice
farawaysaint Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Why should he sit on the saints bench when he could have sat on bayerns for a lot more money? But turned them down as he wants to play every week and play for his country. If club refuse to let him go then he will be a professional about it I'm pleased to hear it, Artur is one of my all-time favourite Saints players, (a bold statement I know but I love the mad bugger) he's a great character and a brilliant keeper, I'd much prefer if he left on good terms.
Jimmy_D Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Forster will still have to prove himself better in training as well I'd imagine, but considering we've just broken the record for a British keeper, I'd hope that he would be able to do that.
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 he cant, unless he wants to be 3rd choice Bayern wanted him to be 2nd. Anyway that doesn't matter. Point is even if he is not allowed to leave he will not be striking or throwing his toys out pram like rest of your players who were and are desperate to leave which is why half of you have such an issue with footballers
farawaysaint Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 We still love you Artur. Considering the posting times I rather hope Artur is training rather than posting on here through his cellphone constantly
Colinjb Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Considering the posting times I rather hope Artur is training rather than posting on here through his cellphone constantly
Batman Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 plenty here rate FF above Boruc during his time at celtic http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/9127241/48/
JackFrost Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 SSN have confirmed Forster will be starting on Sunday
farawaysaint Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Makes sense to loan artur out with a re call option. Really? What club would be happy with that? "Here, have a first choice keeper but we want him back if ours get's hurt."
SaintRobbie Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Koeman has announced Forster starting on Saturday as Saints #1 keeper. SSN
iansums Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 (edited) Bayern wanted him to be 2nd. Anyway that doesn't matter. Point is even if he is not allowed to leave he will not be striking or throwing his toys out pram like rest of your players who were and are desperate to leave which is why half of you have such an issue with footballers I have to say Mrs B, I'm not sure it was a good idea to login to a football fans forum. You're going to read some things which you're not going to like. That doesn't mean Artur wasn't a popular player with the fans but some of us can be a little disparaging at times. Now run along and finish that ironing. Edited 12 August, 2014 by iansums fat fingers, small phone
KingdomCome Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Why? Because everyone thinks they should put up with whatever because they get paid a lot of money. Put up with whatever? No Accept that he will have to fight for his first team position and that there may be others who are better than him? Yes I'm sure if he outperforms FF in training it will not be long before he is back in the first team
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Put up with whatever? No Accept that he will have to fight for his first team position and that there may be others who are better than him? Yes I'm sure if he outperforms FF in training it will not be long before he is back in the first team Goalies outperform on the pitch during games, not training
KingdomCome Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Goalies outperform on the pitch during games, and training Fixed that for you. There's no doubt that Boruc is right to feel aggrieved, but the club have not done anything wrong. Boruc needs to use the sense of injustice to his benefit to help force his way back. He's one of my favourite players of last year (although the number remaining might seem slim pickings) and I would love the guy even more if he remains as professional as he has been.
irene Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 Fixed that for you. There's no doubt that Boruc is right to feel aggrieved, but the club have not done anything wrong. Boruc needs to use the sense of injustice to his benefit to help force his way back. He's one of my favourite players of last year (although the number remaining might seem slim pickings) and I would love the guy even more if he remains as professional as he has been. His professionalism will not be an issue. But he is entitled to want to leave for first team football
farawaysaint Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 His professionalism will not be an issue. But he is entitled to want to leave for first team football Of course he is, the club is also entitled to say no as they will not get enough money for him.
KingdomCome Posted 12 August, 2014 Posted 12 August, 2014 His professionalism will not be an issue. But he is entitled to want to leave for first team football Fair enough, which is why I think a fair few have questioned FF's signing. We needed a back-up, not a replacement. Would be a sad day to lose Boruc.
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