Is It Worth Even Being Mildly Successful?

[KelvinsRightGlove]

It's okay Minty; this year we are going with neat minimal facial hair. Gone are the days of Lallana Under Beards, Cant-be-arsed-Stubble Strikers and Lumberjack-bearded CenterBacks (well, as soon as Jos gets sorted). Still hipster, but clean shaven hipsters!

 

Beards FTW!!

[the saint in winchester]

Good OP. Sadly, we are victims of our own success. One good season, and we get asset stripped by the big boys and our players want to play there.

Potential incomings (eg Caulker, based on the OP's comment) think we are a cash machine, knowing we have money in the bank, and demand unreasonable wages.

Was it worth it? I'm beginning to think, no, it wasn't.

 

ps. If Caulker really wants high wages, QPR can have him.

[Turkish]

Good OP. Sadly, we are victims of our own success. One good season, and we get asset stripped by the big boys and our players want to play there.

Potential incomings (eg Caulker, based on the OP's comment) think we are a cash machine, knowing we have money in the bank, and demand unreasonable wages.

Was it worth it? I'm beginning to think, no, it wasn't.

 

ps. If Caulker really wants high wages, QPR can have him.

 

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

[View From The Top]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

'kin spot on.

[ericb]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

Not sure i could put it better myself

[Patrick Bateman]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

Could not agree more!

 

That bloody FA Cup match ...

[sadoldgit]

Darwinism, survival of the fittest etc. Call it what you like. It has been this way for a long time and is made worse by the SKY money. If MLT were playing now I doubt very much if we would be able to keep hold of him. Cest la vie.

[derry]

To all those that are agonising at the moment there may well be a day of reckoning not that far away. Pochettino and especially Rogers are now under pressure. Lallana, Lambert, Lovren, and Shaw will find themselves under the biggest spotlight of their lives. Fail to deliver outstanding performances and they will suffer the consequences. A question will be answered, how much did the collective contribute to their performances and in the dog eat dog quest for top four will they cope. I for one am not convinced that their price is a true measure of their ability. Shaw is costly raw potential, if everything goes well MU's and England's left back for years to come. The others I'm not so sure.

[CB Fry]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

Amen brother.

[alpine_saint]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

Good post.

[Whitey Grandad]

Doing well in the cups didn't suit Pochettino's agenda. Would Tottenham have gone for him if we'd done well in the Cup but finished 10th in the League?

[ratio_decidendi]

Doing well in the cups didn't suit Pochettino's agenda. Would Tottenham have gone for him if we'd done well in the Cup but finished 10th in the League?

 

Erm... yep?

[OLDER BUT WISER]

The top 4 (5) will hoover up all they need to so that no other team can get into their cartel the only change to that will be when another situation like Man City happens.

[CB Saint]

Whilst being gutted about the team being dismantled, I absolutely loved watching us play last season. Rather that than turgid performances at the arse end of the league. So was it worth it? Yes IMO

[SW5 SAINT]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

Spot on...

[Dalek2003]

We can enjoy being a 'yoyo' club.

[corky morris]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

Said something similar after the Sunderland game. My view of MP was changed for the worse that day!

[Leicestersaint]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

This is my view - and it is why I am quite glad to see the back of Mr Pochettino.

[S-Clarke]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

Post of the year.

[adrian lord]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

 

You're right. Galling it is that all we have to show for it is tea, sympathy, and fading memories of a once naive team that had blossomed, grew in stature, and played some great football and for the first third of the season walked near the summit.

[Saint George]

There is a way to solve at least some of the problem.

 

Football in Europe has never been the same since the Bosman ruling.....But there is a simple way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

 

Just limit the number of transfers a Club can make in a year. With say a 3 player a year transfer limit, The big Clubs would no longer be able to hoover up all the available talent and would have to start looking more to their own academies to fill their squads.

 

With less clubs buying, Clubs like Southampton get to hold on to their talent at least a year or two longer

[Rasiak-9-]

The Cortese junkies were absolutely indignant that our unstoppable march up the table would ultimately result in us taking our rightful place in the champions league in our 50,000 capacity stadium with or team full of academy graduates all ignoring Man United and £100k a week because they loved the chairman. It hasn't quite panned out like that as those of us who had a realistic view said it wouldn't. The league cup was beneath us as we saved our players for the push for 7th, the FA cup, the Europa cup, well who needs it, we're better than that. So as the best players do what some of us always said they would and go and play for the top clubs earning the top money and we need to replace them, the cortese junkies are currently experiencing something similar to the scenario to the one in Trainspotting where Renton was locked in his room trying to get off the smack. They'll get over it, but its a long and difficult road.

 

Whilst I'm inclined to agree with most of this, the only thing I would be slightly critical of is the lack of curiosity as to why an awful lot of people might have felt this way and as such, not been quite so receptive to the kind of realism you'd like to have injected.

 

I mean after all, even if you are completely right, what alternative do you present these fans with? That there is no longer any chance of their club winning a trophy beyond a cup that only grows in meaninglessness with the money in football floating further and further towards the very top? That whilst their ticket prices go up to pay for a supposedly higher standard of football and entertainment, they must accept that any player showing the ability to play for a team at the level to which they aspire will immediately leave? That there is essentially a massive cap on how far a club like Saints can go? That 8th really is the best we'll ever come up with?

 

And finally, with all that being true, that these fans still ought to support the club of their home town to the hilt and convince their sons to eschew the temptations of the small group of clubs that modern sports media considers relevant?

 

As I've touched on, as time goes on even fans of the smaller clubs are collectively growing less and less bothered by the cups. Only 15k were present at the Stadium of Light in an FA cup round of 16 match between two Premiership teams who both played the ressies. As such, a fan in his teenage/young twenties, who really remembers very little else about these competitions other than them being just another trinket added to the vast collection of trophies that the big clubs either casually scoop up or don't even bother to properly compete for could easily be forgiven for not being all that arsed about them either.

 

It isn't just the draw of Premiership glory, its utter desolate indifference at the alternative; that the best we can hope for is to feed off the scraps of the big clubs and hope that one day we win a trophy that none of the 'proper' teams bothered to seriously go for.

 

You're like the Richard Dawkins of mid-table football clubs Turkish, disappointing the faithful, making the (correct) point that their being disappointed doesn't affect whether something is true or not, but not presenting them with an alternative that they can live by!

[Whitey Grandad]

There is a way to solve at least some of the problem.

 

Football in Europe has never been the same since the Bosman ruling.....But there is a simple way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

 

Just limit the number of transfers a Club can make in a year. With say a 3 player a year transfer limit, The big Clubs would no longer be able to hoover up all the available talent and would have to start looking more to their own academies to fill their squads.

 

With less clubs buying, Clubs like Southampton get to hold on to their talent at least a year or two longer

 

In American Football as I understand it every club has the same total limit that they can spend on wages no matter how many players they have registered and the team that finished bottom has first pick of the college draft.

[andoru]

There is a way to solve at least some of the problem.

 

Football in Europe has never been the same since the Bosman ruling.....But there is a simple way to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

 

Just limit the number of transfers a Club can make in a year. With say a 3 player a year transfer limit, The big Clubs would no longer be able to hoover up all the available talent and would have to start looking more to their own academies to fill their squads.

 

With less clubs buying, Clubs like Southampton get to hold on to their talent at least a year or two longer

 

My idea has always been to limit Champions League and Europa League squads to those players who were a part of the squad that qualified for it. European football is always a season behind the domestic leagues. As things are, all players like Lallana and Lovren have to do is angle for a move to a club that's already qualified, so they sign straight into European football. They haven't earned it. If new signings were restricted to playing only in the league and domestic cups (e.g. FA Cup), maybe some players would be more hesitant about moving around. Think about it, would Lallana have been in such a hurry to sign for Liverpool last summer, after they'd finished 7th and didn't look like getting anywhere near the CL spots? I doubt it. He could still sign for Liverpool, but he'd only be eligible to play in the CL if Liverpool qualify for it next season. I think this might slow down, if not stop altogether, all the transfers for instant success that we see so much nowadays.

[angelman]

St G and Androu, both of your suggestions, while acknowledging things are ****, won't work. To me, there is only one possible solution to all this, one which will NEVER EVER be accepted, and that is a Europe wide wage cap. But then if that happens, who knows how many would then go to countries without wage caps - South/North America, Middle East, Far East, Australia...... It would need more than UEFA intervention and I can't see FIFA doing it. There's too much money at stake and where there's money, there are a lot of nefarious characters.

 

If UEFA & PL are so keen to have FFP, then surely a wage cap makes entire sense, as this is the main expense for clubs.

[Saint Paul C]

I think that there a couple of relatively minor tweaks which could be made to the current structure of the league which unfairly assists the big four and restricts all other teams in the league from competing on a fairer basis.

 

Firstly, the division of TV money between clubs in the league needs to be changed. The current situation whereby clubs get a larger share of money based on the number of times that they have televised games needs to be ditched. This current arrangement effectively enables SKY to provide secondary sponsorship to a select few, thereby increasing their annual revenue and removing the possibility of a fair competition. All clubs in the league, regardless of the number of actual televised league games should receive exactly the same amount of TV money. If you look at this years numbers for example, the difference between the favoured clubs and the unfavoured clubs, like Saints, is tens on millions of pounds. This money enables the favoured clubs to circumvent the FFP rules and buy up players from less favoured but potentially competitive teams.

 

Secondly, all clubs competing in the league should have a mandatory squad size cap of say 28 players. This reduces the opportunity for clubs like Chelsea or Man City to buy up as many players as they like because those not named in the league squad would be unwilling to stay if they knew that the likely hood of game time was massively reduced. This would have a couple of secondary benefits in that the fees paid for players would be lower due to increased player churn and that there would be a greater number of decent players for smaller clubs like Saints, Villa etc.. to employ. To reinforce this cap, a freeze on the ability to clubs to loan to other teams in the same league should also be introduced. Teams in the champions/europa league would have an increased squad size, but only by say 4 - 6 players.

 

Also, stricter rules around what clubs can reasonably declare as revenue should be introduced to help control excessive transfer fees and escalating wages. These declarable sources should only include items such as ticket sales, TV revenue from league and domestic cup activities (excluding champs/europa), prize monies from previous season, player transfer fees received, directly attributable merchandise revenue (excluding secondary sources such as brand image rights) and a capped (as an agreed % of TV revenues) input of monies from owners in debentures/loans etc..

 

However, its highly unlikely that these types of reasonable rules would ever be accepted by the cartel of the big 4 and Sky.

[angelman]

St Paul, at least we are not like Spain where each club negociates their own deals, thus giving an unequal share massively skewed towards Barca/Real.

 

There is one more thing I would look at and overhaul and that is the loan system.

[Professor]

In the last 25 or 30 years, football has gone to the dogs and whose fault is that? It's our fault. The Fans. We still keep our dedicated allegiance to teams that are now mostly groups of foreign mercenaries playing in the colours of what used to be English Football Clubs. We still call them 'clubs' when in fact they are businesses, half of them owned by individuals with no interest in football the game, but only in football the money-making business. And yet we, the stupid fans (and I'm as stupid as the best of them) still trudge off to watch matches that leave a huge financial hole in our pockets, while allowing ourselves to be mugged for more money to buy hugely over-priced accessories. We blame Sky, we blame the FA and the Premier League bosses, we blame the agents who help players and managers get their snouts into the trough of TV money, but its actually our own fault! And what can we do about it? Nothing! We are addicts who can't do without our football fix and don't they all know it.....

[View From The Top]

In the last 25 or 30 years, football has gone to the dogs and whose fault is that? It's our fault. The Fans. We still keep our dedicated allegiance to teams that are now mostly groups of foreign mercenaries playing in the colours of what used to be English Football Clubs. We still call them 'clubs' when in fact they are businesses, half of them owned by individuals with no interest in football the game, but only in football the money-making business. And yet we, the stupid fans (and I'm as stupid as the best of them) still trudge off to watch matches that leave a huge financial hole in our pockets, while allowing ourselves to be mugged for more money to buy hugely over-priced accessories. We blame Sky, we blame the FA and the Premier League bosses, we blame the agents who help players and managers get their snouts into the trough of TV money, but its actually our own fault! And what can we do about it? Nothing! We are addicts who can't do without our football fix and don't they all know it.....

 

That's very true of the BPL but can we say the same about the lower divisions? I found L1 a breath of fresh air that reminded me of why I love my club. Local fans, supporting their local team and not a plastic glory fan in sight.

 

We get back to the BPL and many like me have walked away. Unwilling to pay the prices to an organisation that panders to the middle classes with disposable income to burn and that does the bidding of TV without caring about the fans.

[Turkish]

Whilst I'm inclined to agree with most of this, the only thing I would be slightly critical of is the lack of curiosity as to why an awful lot of people might have felt this way and as such, not been quite so receptive to the kind of realism you'd like to have injected.

 

I mean after all, even if you are completely right, what alternative do you present these fans with? That there is no longer any chance of their club winning a trophy beyond a cup that only grows in meaninglessness with the money in football floating further and further towards the very top? That whilst their ticket prices go up to pay for a supposedly higher standard of football and entertainment, they must accept that any player showing the ability to play for a team at the level to which they aspire will immediately leave? That there is essentially a massive cap on how far a club like Saints can go? That 8th really is the best we'll ever come up with? And finally, with all that being true, that these fans still ought to support the club of their home town to the hilt and convince their sons to eschew the temptations of the small group of clubs that modern sports media considers relevant?

As I've touched on, as time goes on even fans of the smaller clubs are collectively growing less and less bothered by the cups. Only 15k were present at the Stadium of Light in an FA cup round of 16 match between two Premiership teams who both played the ressies. As such, a fan in his teenage/young twenties, who really remembers very little else about these competitions other than them being just another trinket added to the vast collection of trophies that the big clubs either casually scoop up or don't even bother to properly compete for could easily be forgiven for not being all that arsed about them either.

 

It isn't just the draw of Premiership glory, its utter desolate indifference at the alternative; that the best we can hope for is to feed off the scraps of the big clubs and hope that one day we win a trophy that none of the 'proper' teams bothered to seriously go for.

 

You're like the Richard Dawkins of mid-table football clubs Turkish, disappointing the faithful, making the (correct) point that their being disappointed doesn't affect whether something is true or not, but not presenting them with an alternative that they can live by!

 

That's the reality. The alternative that they live by is that if they want to win the league and champions league they support someone else.

[View From The Top]

Whilst I'm inclined to agree with most of this, the only thing I would be slightly critical of is the lack of curiosity as to why an awful lot of people might have felt this way and as such, not been quite so receptive to the kind of realism you'd like to have injected.

 

I mean after all, even if you are completely right, what alternative do you present these fans with? That there is no longer any chance of their club winning a trophy beyond a cup that only grows in meaninglessness with the money in football floating further and further towards the very top? That whilst their ticket prices go up to pay for a supposedly higher standard of football and entertainment, they must accept that any player showing the ability to play for a team at the level to which they aspire will immediately leave? That there is essentially a massive cap on how far a club like Saints can go? That 8th really is the best we'll ever come up with?

And finally, with all that being true, that these fans still ought to support the club of their home town to the hilt and convince their sons to eschew the temptations of the small group of clubs that modern sports media considers relevant?

 

As I've touched on, as time goes on even fans of the smaller clubs are collectively growing less and less bothered by the cups. Only 15k were present at the Stadium of Light in an FA cup round of 16 match between two Premiership teams who both played the ressies. As such, a fan in his teenage/young twenties, who really remembers very little else about these competitions other than them being just another trinket added to the vast collection of trophies that the big clubs either casually scoop up or don't even bother to properly compete for could easily be forgiven for not being all that arsed about them either.

 

It isn't just the draw of Premiership glory, its utter desolate indifference at the alternative; that the best we can hope for is to feed off the scraps of the big clubs and hope that one day we win a trophy that none of the 'proper' teams bothered to seriously go for.

 

You're like the Richard Dawkins of mid-table football clubs Turkish, disappointing the faithful, making the (correct) point that their being disappointed doesn't affect whether something is true or not, but not presenting them with an alternative that they can live by!

 

That's the truth though, just some don't seem willing to except it and dream that we can play UCL football.

[sadoldgit]

St Paul, at least we are not like Spain where each club negociates their own deals, thus giving an unequal share massively skewed towards Barca/Real.

 

There is one more thing I would look at and overhaul and that is the loan system.

 

I really do not like the loan system and cant understand why we allow Premiership clubs to loan players out to other Prem clubs. By all means loan players out to the Championship and below for experience, but not to your competitors.

[sadoldgit]

That's very true of the BPL but can we say the same about the lower divisions? I found L1 a breath of fresh air that reminded me of why I love my club. Local fans, supporting their local team and not a plastic glory fan in sight.

 

We get back to the BPL and many like me have walked away. Unwilling to pay the prices to an organisation that panders to the middle classes with disposable income to burn and that does the bidding of TV without caring about the fans.

 

I too enjoyed the time out of the top flight. Although it is good to see SFC back and competing with the best the Premiership is a souless place and it wouldnt have bothered me if we had stayed in the Championship longer. The amount of Mickey Mouse money being banded about for players is obscene and clearly many of them lose their grip on reality (we have had a few of those!).

 

Sadly I cant see it ever getting any better.

[Turkish]

I really do not like the loan system and cant understand why we allow Premiership clubs to loan players out to other Prem clubs. By all means loan players out to the Championship and below for experience, but not to your competitors.

 

"Dorkish" called this one a long time ago. It's a farce when you can have Chelsea loaning players to Everton and Liverpool.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?46651-The-Loan-system

[Professor]

Like sadoldgit, I enjoyed L1 and the following year in the Championship. When we got promoted to the EPL you couldn't help wondering if we would have enjoyed football more if we had stayed in the Championship. But a successful Championship team, one just failing to get promoted, is just as vulnerable to seeing its best players picked off by premier league sides. Last season was enjoyable for most of the year, but for most of us the pleasure was ultimately ruined by the way the manager and a few players behaved, which clearly they had been planning for some time. To talk about "Fair Play" is a joke because the TV money and the CL have distorted football so much, with a small group of ultra-wealthy clubs dominating, and with the power to destroy teams like ours with their financial muscle, so that for the rest it looks like a downhill path. I went to fewer games last year than the year before, mainly because the early season promise faded somewhat. Although I'll be at the friendly with Brighton, I expect to go to fewer matches again this season. I'll never stop following the saints but we might as well accept that we are in the EPL to make the numbers up and the only realistic target is to try to get above 11th spot, but forget about the top 6.

[OldNick]

It'd been worth it if we had something to show for it. A good cup run, a semi final, a final, bo*locks, who knows, even winning the damn thing. But no, that isn't what the management of SFC wanted and some of the fans were duped into believing that it was all about building for the next season where we take our rightful place in the top 4. It's a real shame that arugably the best team we've had in 30 years has got nothing to show for it but it's an even bigger shame that the management and some of our fans were too arrogant to think that the time to push for some silverware was then and that given the way the draw opened up in the FA Cup it'd be a long time before we'd get a better chance of winning a trophy.

if Lambert had not missed for 2yards and Al not also missed a sitter we may have got our wish. That's football, we should have beaten Sunderland but failed to take our chances and they scored with a superb strike

[Window Cleaner]

if Lambert had not missed for 2yards and Al not also missed a sitter we may have got our wish. That's football, we should have beaten Sunderland but failed to take our chances and they scored with a superb strike

 

 

Still we sold the culprits for a shedload, that'll teach them to go upsetting yer average fan's cup final dream.

[jawillwill]

if Lambert had not missed for 2yards and Al not also missed a sitter we may have got our wish. That's football, we should have beaten Sunderland but failed to take our chances and they scored with a superb strike

This is a stupid argument which I've heard countless times. Yes Lambert missed a sitter, but don't you think there's a good chance (albeit not a certainty) that we would have created more chances, been more likely to score and less likely to concede had we played a full strength team? I hate to agree with Turkish, but we may never have a better chance of winning silverware as we did last season

[Turkish]

This is a stupid argument which I've heard countless times. Yes Lambert missed a sitter, but don't you think there's a good chance (albeit not a certainty) that we would have created more chances, been more likely to score and less likely to concede had we played a full strength team? I hate to agree with Turkish, but we may never have a better chance of winning silverware as we did last season

 

Why on earth do you hate to agree with me?

[OldNick]

This is a stupid argument which I've heard countless times. Yes Lambert missed a sitter, but don't you think there's a good chance (albeit not a certainty) that we would have created more chances, been more likely to score and less likely to concede had we played a full strength team? I hate to agree with Turkish, but we may never have a better chance of winning silverware as we did last season

It is arrogance of a football fan that we believe that not only would we have rolled over Sunderland in their home patch but gone to Hull and did the same etc etc.

I agree we may have created more, who was missing . JRod and Boruc spring to mind not sure if Morgan as well. Following saints I have got used to not great expectations. I would concede that the draw opened up, but you can't guarantee we would have got through.

A question, in the draw would our number on the ball been the same as Sunderlands had we won? If not the draw we would have had may have drawn us Arsenal

[Rasiak-9-]

That's the reality. The alternative that they live by is that if they want to win the league and champions league they support someone else.

 

That's the truth though, just some don't seem willing to except it and dream that we can play UCL football.

 

Yes, yes, yes we get that its true, but assuming you're right; why convince any young children to follow Saints? Why should we continue paying our hefty Season Ticket prices to watch a club for which immobility is the best we can hope for? Where's the fun in it? Why not just go with the flow and get an armchair and a Sky subscription? You might have memories and nostalgia for the 'good old days' to fall back on but there's an increasingly large number of Saints supporters who don't.

 

Its one thing accepting it, its another thing learning to enjoy it.

[Turkish]

Yes, yes, yes we get that its true, but assuming you're right; why convince any young children to follow Saints? Why should we continue paying our hefty Season Ticket prices to watch a club for which immobility is the best we can hope for? Where's the fun in it? Why not just go with the flow and get an armchair and a Sky subscription? You might have memories and nostalgia for the 'good old days' to fall back on but there's an increasingly large number of Saints supporters who don't.

 

Its one thing accepting it, its another thing learning to enjoy it.

 

Plenty have followed saints in the past without Cortese and his champions league dream. Why do fans of 87 clubs in the country who have no chance of playing in the champions league bother? If you don't know the answer and If you want titles support Man City.

Edited 23 July, 2014 by Turkish

[The9]

Speak for yourself, I'm no hypocrite and don't want any rules to benefit us at the expense of others.

 

And I can't grow a beard, let alone a cool one.

 

Well you already are by supporting a team that benefits from the Academy rules (and you're already not on the beard team for some reason).

[The9]

In the last 25 or 30 years, football has gone to the dogs and whose fault is that? It's our fault. The Fans. We still keep our dedicated allegiance to teams that are now mostly groups of foreign mercenaries playing in the colours of what used to be English Football Clubs. We still call them 'clubs' when in fact they are businesses, half of them owned by individuals with no interest in football the game, but only in football the money-making business. And yet we, the stupid fans (and I'm as stupid as the best of them) still trudge off to watch matches that leave a huge financial hole in our pockets, while allowing ourselves to be mugged for more money to buy hugely over-priced accessories. We blame Sky, we blame the FA and the Premier League bosses, we blame the agents who help players and managers get their snouts into the trough of TV money, but its actually our own fault! And what can we do about it? Nothing! We are addicts who can't do without our football fix and don't they all know it.....

 

Except that Premier League football doesn't need "the fans" in the stadiums at all any more, it can go on as a TV product in Malaysia in front of no-one with the clubs still getting 80% of their revenue even if not a single one of us gave a monkey's any more. The problem with football is not the fans, it's the money that caused the top clubs to want a Superleague in the 80s and led to the FA supporting a breakaway from the Football League, which in turn led to the Premier League doing everything for the benefit of a few. Of course.

[Grey Crab]

This is a stupid argument which I've heard countless times. Yes Lambert missed a sitter, but don't you think there's a good chance (albeit not a certainty) that we would have created more chances, been more likely to score and less likely to concede had we played a full strength team? I hate to agree with Turkish, but we may never have a better chance of winning silverware as we did last season

 

That's an even stupider argument because it agrees with Turkish.

[OldNick]

Except that Premier League football doesn't need "the fans" in the stadiums at all any more, it can go on as a TV product in Malaysia in front of no-one with the clubs still getting 80% of their revenue even if not a single one of us gave a monkey's any more. The problem with football is not the fans, it's the money that caused the top clubs to want a Superleague in the 80s and led to the FA supporting a breakaway from the Football League, which in turn led to the Premier League doing everything for the benefit of a few. Of course.

The PL needs the fans to create the atmosphere, when the crowds dwindle the attraction to overseas viewers will wain IMO

[Rasiak-9-]

Plenty have followed saints in the past without Cortese and his champions league dream. Why do fans of 87 clubs in the country who have no chance of playing in the champions league bother? If you don't know the answer and If you want titles support Man City.

 

A crowd getting older and older and older, with gates dwindling and dwindling and dwindling.

[Turkish]

A crowd getting older and older and older, with gates dwindling and dwindling and dwindling.

 

At what age did you start supporting saints and why?

[Frank's cousin]

The Cortese junkies were absolutely indignant that our unstoppable march up the table would ultimately result in us taking our rightful place in the champions league in our 50,000 capacity stadium with or team full of academy graduates all ignoring Man United and £100k a week because they loved the chairman. It hasn't quite panned out like that as those of us who had a realistic view said it wouldn't. The league cup was beneath us as we saved our players for the push for 7th, the FA cup, the Europa cup, well who needs it, we're better than that. So as the best players do what some of us always said they would and go and play for the top clubs earning the top money and we need to replace them, the cortese junkies are currently experiencing something similar to the scenario to the one in Trainspotting where Renton was locked in his room trying to get off the smack. They'll get over it, but its a long and difficult road.

 

 

Gotta bite, , I know I shouldn't, but you need feeding. First up, let's put the CoC junkies bit to bed - let's see if you can get this first time... Yes I know it can be a struggle, but try, go on... You will feel so much better for it, I promise you. So that we can not get side tracked let's get the Cup thing out of the way. POCH fecked up. If you want to suggest deliberately to get knocked out, that's your opinion - personally, if think he underestimated the opponent and stuck out a side he thought would win... But let's agree to disagree and move on...

 

Cortese... Ah yes the arch villain of the piece. Such a devious Machiavellian chancre he'll bet on CL by spending Dear Katharina's hard earned inheritance - what a filthy blagard he be.... Evil to the core as not only was he wanting to turn poor Kat into a pauper, but he made us play in red as well.... But no, these were not the worst of his crimes .... His real serious evil was his stated ambition.... One that you, Fry and a few of your little possy seem to struggle with because you seem to be unable to look at ambition objectively, or understand what it means.

 

Ambition - a desire to achieve something - the setting of a goal or series of goals and if circumstances allow, doing what you can to achieve said aims.... Now, surely we can agree that ambition is a good thing? Yes? ...tell me, what were your thoughts when in 2003 our dear chairman Lowe refused young Mr Strachan 12mil for Saha and Malbranque? Did you also dislike that nasty man for telling a fib and suggesting he declined as he did not want Fulham as a rival to have 12 mil? Or were you one of a handful of 'Lowe Luvvies' such as myself who knew the real reason was quite simply that we did not have the cash, we're being run within our means and did not want to build debt even if only to pay for those transfers over a number of years? .... Please tel me you were a Lowe Luvvie deep down, so that your current stance is consistent with the past....

 

At that time us 'luvvies' who surprisingly were indifferent to Lowe as a man, but supportive of the debt free, living within our means culture were thin on the ground and subject to a fair bit of 'banter'.... Oh how times have changed. It must have been an epiphany, a change of heart of seismic proportions as now, suddenly everyone is says they like our stance and support dear Kat as she squares the circle and pays the builders and other clubs today, rather than tomorrow which was Nasty Nics stance... But hey, we have kinda covered that in the past

 

Let's come back to the evil short arse's despicable desire to share his lofty 'ambition' - something that obviously causes you such offence, as you can go a post without mentioning its innate evil... Hats off to you for persistence, but suggest you need to think about ambition a little more. Here is an interesting concept for you; ambition and having one not restricted to the relative probability of success. Stop and digest that for a moment. Try and understand it and what it means.... To help you here, it means that if you restrict you ambition to what is likely, probable etc, it's not ambition. It's an achievable target... Which is the very least we should include in out yearly goals... The more challenging, the more difficult , in some ways the more improbable your ambition is, the better. It drives people to chemise more than they felt capable of. It's a classic story: to paraphrase an old fable, it's not reaching the top that is important, it's the trying and what you learn from the process... If you do t find that a worthwhile objective, then now to can say, but it will resonate with many. It you set low ambition, say happy with 10th, don't be surprised if we never achieve better.

 

I have yet to meet anyone face to face who has met NC and liked him as a person. I doubt I would like him as a person, as these types of driven business types do tend to be arseholes. But I admire what he achieved and admire his desire to aim high, irrespective of what was probable or not. A culture of delivering home grown talent combined with some experience is nothing new, but if it was easy everyone would be doing it... We did. The evil shortages going was never the a problem. It's the seemingly lack of desire of those who took over to have equally challenging, difficult and yes lofty ambition and drive us beyond our 'natural place' that I have an issue with... Nothing more, nothing less. They show that, they drive this club forward, then great.

[Turkish]

Gotta bite, , I know I shouldn't, but you need feeding. First up, let's put the CoC junkies bit to bed - let's see if you can get this first time... Yes I know it can be a struggle, but try, go on... You will feel so much better for it, I promise you. So that we can not get side tracked let's get the Cup thing out of the way. POCH fecked up. If you want to suggest deliberately to get knocked out, that's your opinion - personally, if think he underestimated the opponent and stuck out a side he thought would win... But let's agree to disagree and move on...

 

Cortese... Ah yes the arch villain of the piece. Such a devious Machiavellian chancre he'll bet on CL by spending Dear Katharina's hard earned inheritance - what a filthy blagard he be.... Evil to the core as not only was he wanting to turn poor Kat into a pauper, but he made us play in red as well.... But no, these were not the worst of his crimes .... His real serious evil was his stated ambition.... One that you, Fry and a few of your little possy seem to struggle with because you seem to be unable to look at ambition objectively, or understand what it means.

 

Ambition - a desire to achieve something - the setting of a goal or series of goals and if circumstances allow, doing what you can to achieve said aims.... Now, surely we can agree that ambition is a good thing? Yes? ...tell me, what were your thoughts when in 2003 our dear chairman Lowe refused young Mr Strachan 12mil for Saha and Malbranque? Did you also dislike that nasty man for telling a fib and suggesting he declined as he did not want Fulham as a rival to have 12 mil? Or were you one of a handful of 'Lowe Luvvies' such as myself who knew the real reason was quite simply that we did not have the cash, we're being run within our means and did not want to build debt even if only to pay for those transfers over a number of years? .... Please tel me you were a Lowe Luvvie deep down, so that your current stance is consistent with the past....

 

At that time us 'luvvies' who surprisingly were indifferent to Lowe as a man, but supportive of the debt free, living within our means culture were thin on the ground and subject to a fair bit of 'banter'.... Oh how times have changed. It must have been an epiphany, a change of heart of seismic proportions as now, suddenly everyone is says they like our stance and support dear Kat as she squares the circle and pays the builders and other clubs today, rather than tomorrow which was Nasty Nics stance... But hey, we have kinda covered that in the past

 

Let's come back to the evil short arse's despicable desire to share his lofty 'ambition' - something that obviously causes you such offence, as you can go a post without mentioning its innate evil... Hats off to you for persistence, but suggest you need to think about ambition a little more. Here is an interesting concept for you; ambition and having one not restricted to the relative probability of success. Stop and digest that for a moment. Try and understand it and what it means.... To help you here, it means that if you restrict you ambition to what is likely, probable etc, it's not ambition. It's an achievable target... Which is the very least we should include in out yearly goals... The more challenging, the more difficult , in some ways the more improbable your ambition is, the better. It drives people to chemise more than they felt capable of. It's a classic story: to paraphrase an old fable, it's not reaching the top that is important, it's the trying and what you learn from the process... If you do t find that a worthwhile objective, then now to can say, but it will resonate with many. It you set low ambition, say happy with 10th, don't be surprised if we never achieve better.

 

I have yet to meet anyone face to face who has met NC and liked him as a person. I doubt I would like him as a person, as these types of driven business types do tend to be arseholes. But I admire what he achieved and admire his desire to aim high, irrespective of what was probable or not. A culture of delivering home grown talent combined with some experience is nothing new, but if it was easy everyone would be doing it... We did. The evil shortages going was never the a problem. It's the seemingly lack of desire of those who took over to have equally challenging, difficult and yes lofty ambition and drive us beyond our 'natural place' that I have an issue with... Nothing more, nothing less. They show that, they drive this club forward, then great.

 

What on earth are you going on about?