Some good football news at last....

[Polaroid Saint]

My attitude to Gerrard's England career can be summed up by looking at Gerrard's attitude to his England career;

 

The Liverpool midfielder said: "I have enjoyed every minute of representing my country. It's a sad day for me."

 

Here he is 'enjoying' one of those minutes:

and another:

and another:

 

and one of those 'enjoyable' minutes captaining his country versus Germany at South Africa 2010:

 

'Enjoying every minute' from Brazil 2014:

 

And one last one, enjoying 'an England minute' with a 'team mate':

 

 

In summery; I am glad you enjoyed every minute Stevie.

 

Unfortunately, I, for one, did not.

 

[CB Saint]

Heard today that he would like Rooney to follow him as Captain.

 

On these matters he should keep his gob shut as all he has done is create unnecessary problems for Roy if he (rightly) decides to give it to someone else.

[Smirking_Saint]

My attitude to Gerrard's England career can be summed up by looking at Gerrard's attitude to his England career;

 

The Liverpool midfielder said: "I have enjoyed every minute of representing my country. It's a sad day for me."

 

Here he is 'enjoying' one of those minutes:

and another:

and another:

 

and one of those 'enjoyable' minutes captaining his country versus Germany at South Africa 2010:

 

'Enjoying every minute' from Brazil 2014:

 

And one last one, enjoying 'an England minute' with a 'team mate':

 

 

In summery; I am glad you enjoyed every minute Stevie.

 

Unfortunately, I, for one, did not.

 

 

TBF atleast he always seemed passionate, I remember Lampard laughing and joking after the 4-1 defeat against germany.

 

Id say it was an underperforming team of crap tactics and pish managers, Ive not seen an England team in my lifetime that I consider anyone has 'performed' in, thats not a problem of the players per se as you have had the likes of shearer, terry, gazza, gerrard, scholes etc I find it more an issue with the FA and set up in general

[hypochondriac]

Anyone who gets over 100 caps for their country deserves some respect.

 

So he gets credit for being around a long time? I would prefer to judge him on his contribution in games. I think the fact he played so much says more about the judgement of the managers than his quality for england.

[hypochondriac]

TBF atleast he always seemed passionate, I remember Lampard laughing and joking after the 4-1 defeat against germany.

 

Id say it was an underperforming team of crap tactics and pish managers, Ive not seen an England team in my lifetime that I consider anyone has 'performed' in, thats not a problem of the players per se as you have had the likes of shearer, terry, gazza, gerrard, scholes etc I find it more an issue with the FA and set up in general

 

Ashley Cole was great for england.

[Polaroid Saint]

TBF atleast he always seemed passionate, I remember Lampard laughing and joking after the 4-1 defeat against germany.

 

Id say it was an underperforming team of crap tactics and pish managers, Ive not seen an England team in my lifetime that I consider anyone has 'performed' in, thats not a problem of the players per se as you have had the likes of shearer, terry, gazza, gerrard, scholes etc I find it more an issue with the FA and set up in general

 

 

I know, I believe you are right; there was always a genuine and obvious passion to the man. Nowhere near the worst offender of the Golden Shower Generation (see what I did there?!).

 

Only being harsh because of his (typically inane) statement that he 'enjoyed every minute'. Would have been decent and honest for the out-going captain to have acknowledged the hard times and disappointment of his tenure as captain and time as a player.

[The9]

So he gets credit for being around a long time? I would prefer to judge him on his contribution in games. I think the fact he played so much says more about the judgement of the managers than his quality for england.

 

After only a handful of players managing to do so prior to the 2000s, the glut of recent players reaching 100 caps says more about the problems within the English game than anything else - they're not playing more international games than their predecessors per season, they're just getting to hang around longer because there's no-one being given the chance to replace them.

[Smirking_Saint]

Ashley Cole was great for england.

 

He was a good player in a poor performing england team

[The9]

Have to agree to disagree there on both counts. Rooney especially has been a major factor in England being poor.

 

Since about 2006.

[sadoldgit]

So he gets credit for being around a long time? I would prefer to judge him on his contribution in games. I think the fact he played so much says more about the judgement of the managers than his quality for england.

 

He was around a long time because a number of different managers rated him. If he hadnt contributed he wouldnt have been there. Simples.

[hypochondriac]

Since about 2006.

 

Since euro 2004.

[sadoldgit]

Ashley Cole was great for england.

 

"Great" I would disagree. Good yes. His speed got him out of trouble (and having two decent centre halves). He got up the field but had little end product and should never have been let near a penalty. He wasnt called "Rashley" for nothing in his earlier days.

[hypochondriac]

After only a handful of players managing to do so prior to the 2000s, the glut of recent players reaching 100 caps says more about the problems within the English game than anything else - they're not playing more international games than their predecessors per season, they're just getting to hang around longer because there's no-one being given the chance to replace them.

 

Exactly. You summed it up well.

[hypochondriac]

He was a good player in a poor performing england team

 

So he did 'perform' then?

[hypochondriac]

He was around a long time because a number of different managers rated him. If he hadnt contributed he wouldnt have been there. Simples.

 

Loads of them contributed very little and been able to amass loads of caps based on their reputation and not much else. It's a big part of the problem and one reason we have been so poor.

[Smirking_Saint]

So he did 'perform' then?

 

In the same way as the others did, saying gerrard didnt perform is pretty much crap anyway.

 

He was a good left back, much better for his club though, mainly because england in general are crap

[sadoldgit]

I can agree with both points of view here.

 

Gerrard's contribution to the national team is overrated due to club form and media 'love in' with his club. Can I recall any great moments of his time playing for England ? No. At least Beckham - who also lead England in a period of non achievement - has a few spectacular free kicks that stand out.

 

He may deserve some "respect" , but lets not go overboard about another underachiever for the national side. He offered "commitment", but little else.

 

Lahm also retired from international football with about the same number of caps. What has Lahm won in that time, and how many finals/semi-finals has he played in ? Compare that to Gerrard to put some perspective on it.

 

Gerrard may have been a decent servant for England, but no no means an England legend.

 

It was Gerrard's misfortune to be born English and not German. Lahm would have won nothing if he had been English.

[hypochondriac]

In the same way as the others did, saying gerrard didnt perform is pretty much crap anyway.

 

He was a good left back, much better for his club though, mainly because england in general are crap

 

Disagree. I think in almost every England game and tournament Ashley was good or decent. Unlike almost all the others in the team who were underwhelming. Gerrard had very few decent games for england from what I remember.

[Smirking_Saint]

Loads of them contributed very little and been able to amass loads of caps based on their reputation and not much else. It's a big part of the problem and one reason we have been so poor.

 

You need to ask yourself, behind all of this big cap earners are there ? Regardless of their abilities ? Genuine question not point scoring ?

 

Behind say, gerrard/beckham/rooney etc who is there ? Regardless of both of our percieved ability levels of those three behind them is very little at all, thats englands real problems. That and an insistance to play all of our stars regardless of whether they can play together or fit the system

[Smirking_Saint]

Disagree. I think in almost every England game and tournament Ashley was good or decent. Unlike almost all the others in the team who were underwhelming. Gerrard had very few decent games for england from what I remember.

 

Its pretty hard to tactically **** up the left back position though

[hypochondriac]

You need to ask yourself, behind all of this big cap earners are there ? Regardless of their abilities ? Genuine question not point scoring ?

 

Behind say, gerrard/beckham/rooney etc who is there ? Regardless of both of our percieved ability levels of those three behind them is very little at all, thats englands real problems. That and an insistance to play all of our stars regardless of whether they can play together or fit the system

 

I would have played the likes of huddlestone over Gerrard in DM at the world cup. Even cork would have been better.

[sadoldgit]

After only a handful of players managing to do so prior to the 2000s, the glut of recent players reaching 100 caps says more about the problems within the English game than anything else - they're not playing more international games than their predecessors per season, they're just getting to hang around longer because there's no-one being given the chance to replace them.

 

Isnt that the problem though? No one was better than Gerrard (in doing what Gerrard does best). They are scratching around for a captain now because there is no one good enough or respected enough (so they give it to Rooney FFS). If better players than Gerrard or Lampard were about neither would have gone to the WC. Where are the English midfielders coming through that score as many goals as those two from midfield?

[hypochondriac]

Isnt that the problem though? No one was better than Gerrard (in doing what Gerrard does best). They are scratching around for a captain now because there is no one good enough or respected enough (so they give it to Rooney FFS). If better players than Gerrard or Lampard were about neither would have gone to the WC. Where are the English midfielders coming through that score as many goals as those two from midfield?

 

Well supposedly respected Gerrard has presided over dismal failure so I reckon pretty much anyone would be fine as captain (not rooney).

[sadoldgit]

I know, I believe you are right; there was always a genuine and obvious passion to the man. Nowhere near the worst offender of the Golden Shower Generation (see what I did there?!).

 

Only being harsh because of his (typically inane) statement that he 'enjoyed every minute'. Would have been decent and honest for the out-going captain to have acknowledged the hard times and disappointment of his tenure as captain and time as a player.

 

He has done. He also accepts that he wasnt always at his best in an England shirt (and he wasnt alone in that). He is clearly still very upset by the recent WC. Whatever people think of him, he clearly does care and it must be hard for a player of his stature to live with those disappointments (as someone who has known great success at club level).

[Smirking_Saint]

I would have played the likes of huddlestone over Gerrard in DM at the world cup. Even cork would have been better.

 

Thanks for sort of making my point. Gerrard and henderson are not natural DMs, Gerrard is more of a playmaker now, like Pirlo for Italy, for Liverpool generally his responsibilities are to help break up play and keep the ball moving, hendo plays further forward.

 

So, what does Woy do !? Plays them both infront of defence for catastrophic consequences, Gerrard in the whole had an excellent season playing deep for LFC, some of the media were saying he was europes best there on earlyish season form (i dont know if i agreed by the way) by the end of the season he looked exhausted, he litteraly gave everything to LFC and I think it was obvious at the end how tired he was. Hodgson then brought him to the WC and again he looked tired to me.

 

Now, ok, he is past it now but the england CM is lacking, he could have done a job, Woy played 433 in warm ups and we looked ok, against Costa Rica he played 3 in there and we looked much better so why try to get away with a static two in the WC !?

 

Im not saying SG was good enough in the WC at all, he wasnt, but Woy managed to make things worse IMHO

[sadoldgit]

Well supposedly respected Gerrard has presided over dismal failure so I reckon pretty much anyone would be fine as captain (not rooney).

 

Would you be saying the same if he was captain of SFC? I suspect you and many like you have got it in for him because he plays for Liverpool and they are nicking our players. Still at the end of the day the people who know football better than you or I respect him. It isnt Gerrads fault that England have been so poor and if he had been lucky enough to be born and in and play for Germany I expect the same people who are slagging him off now would be singing his praises.

[Saint Mikey]

When I heard Rooney touted as the next captain, I thought - Really? FFS. Then I thought, who is there with any level of experience that should be captain?

 

Cahill? Is he captain material? Was he at Bolton? Jagielka's not good enough. There's no-one in CM with any experience now. I wouldn't give to Hart either - he needs to concentrate on GK'ing. Flags up how poor our squad is at this moment in time.

 

As the English fan loves a player that runs around aimlessly showing 'heart' - maybe Rooney is a good fit. Either that or call-up Lee Cattermole and make him captain...

[hypochondriac]

Would you be saying the same if he was captain of SFC? I suspect you and many like you have got it in for him because he plays for Liverpool and they are nicking our players. Still at the end of the day the people who know football better than you or I respect him. It isnt Gerrads fault that England have been so poor and if he had been lucky enough to be born and in and play for Germany I expect the same people who are slagging him off now would be singing his praises.

 

Wtf has SFC got to do with England? Why do you keep bringing it up? Gerrard isn't anything to do with SFC and how he does for his club is irrelevant. I would have said this a year or two ago, absolutely nothing at all to do with them amassing saints players. I'm sure not everyone within football respect him but of course when a player bigged up in the media retires they will get quotes to support their viewpoint. Many England fans have said words to the effect of good riddance and I agree with them.

[hypochondriac]

Thanks for sort of making my point. Gerrard and henderson are not natural DMs, Gerrard is more of a playmaker now, like Pirlo for Italy, for Liverpool generally his responsibilities are to help break up play and keep the ball moving, hendo plays further forward.

 

So, what does Woy do !? Plays them both infront of defence for catastrophic consequences, Gerrard in the whole had an excellent season playing deep for LFC, some of the media were saying he was europes best there on earlyish season form (i dont know if i agreed by the way) by the end of the season he looked exhausted, he litteraly gave everything to LFC and I think it was obvious at the end how tired he was. Hodgson then brought him to the WC and again he looked tired to me.

 

Now, ok, he is past it now but the england CM is lacking, he could have done a job, Woy played 433 in warm ups and we looked ok, against Costa Rica he played 3 in there and we looked much better so why try to get away with a static two in the WC !?

 

Im not saying SG was good enough in the WC at all, he wasnt, but Woy managed to make things worse IMHO

 

I disagree. I think he would have been poor wherever he played and shouldn't have played. I may be would have had him in the squad at a push.

[sadoldgit]

Wtf has SFC got to do with England? Why do you keep bringing it up? Gerrard isn't anything to do with SFC and how he does for his club is irrelevant. I would have said this a year or two ago, absolutely nothing at all to do with them amassing saints players. I'm sure not everyone within football respect him but of course when a player bigged up in the media retires they will get quotes to support their viewpoint. Many England fans have said words to the effect of good riddance and I agree with them.

 

The point I was making is that if he played for us your attitude towards him would be totally different. Yes his career at International level could have been a lot better and would have been if he had been Spanish or German and played in better teams. The bloke is a quality player. He is respected by people who know the game because he is a quality player. You can slag him off all you like but England will struggle to find an upcoming complete midfielder like him.

[hypochondriac]

The point I was making is that if he played for us your attitude towards him would be totally different. Yes his career at International level could have been a lot better and would have been if he had been Spanish or German and played in better teams. The bloke is a quality player. He is respected by people who know the game because he is a quality player. You can slag him off all you like but England will struggle to find an upcoming complete midfielder like him.

 

So what you are saying is that if he was in my club team my judgement would be impaired as I would be biased towards him. In that case then yes that would probably be the case. He isn't a saint though so I can assess him bases on the results I care about (England.) he has been poor for England and I would prefer we performed as a team like Germany rather than a collection of individuals. Gerrard has often shown he is not a team player so I think he will be easily replaced but England will still be rubbish so it doesn't really matter.