for_heaven's_Saint Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 A lot of my mates are Rangers fans, some with over 50 years of watching them. They regard Caulker the same way we do Callum Davenport. One who thought we were certainties for top 8 has just put a bet on us being relegated. That's how bad he was last season, very different to what Villa fans said about Bertrand. Personally I've always thought him very poor and can't understand this signing at all. Hope I'm wrong I think I'm happy to ignore the opinion of someone who puts money on us to go down because we signed 1 defender, who isn't even likely to be first choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Because we are still linked with other centre backs, because the people who know stuff on here have stated we are still in for other centre backs, because this is a temporary loan and is clearly cover for Gardos, because I have an iota of intelligence and can quite clearly see that we will get someone else in. Tell you what, how about if we don't get a centre back in, I'll give £30 to a charity of your choice and if we do then you do the same. Deal? Deal! The first bet I've made that I want to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintRichmond Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 But this clearly isn't the only centre back signing we are going to make. So your bawling looks idiotic... What makes you so sure ? Caulker was obviously NOT anywhere near our "preferred" list, and Jack Charlton retired years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 (edited) interesting that Koeman said he wants 2 or 3 more....which is good news really. Assume 1 of those 2 or 3 is another CB (VvD) what do you suppose the other player position(s) is/are? also, if Caulker does well, I would hope we dont leave it till it is open season before securing his services longer term. Edited 30 July, 2015 by Batman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 A lot of my mates are Rangers fans, some with over 50 years of watching them. They regard Caulker the same way we do Callum Davenport. One who thought we were certainties for top 8 has just put a bet on us being relegated. That's how bad he was last season, very different to what Villa fans said about Bertrand. Personally I've always thought him very poor and can't understand this signing at all. Hope I'm wrong Do they enjoy wasting money on random bets, or is this just a one off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 interesting that Koeman said he wants 2 or 3 more....which is good news really. Assume 1 of those 2 or 3 is another CB (VvD) what do you suppose the other player position(s) is/are? also, if Caulker does well, I would hope we dont leave it till it is open season before securing his services longer term. I reckon we'll bring in another midfielder maybe. Our front line looks impressive and if we get one more centre back in we look strong there as well. Maybe another CM to fight it out with Clasie and Vic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 The posts on here reek of the thread when we signed Bertrand and look how that turned out. I for one am delighted with Caulker. He's still young, has England experience but has just been in two sh1te teams over the last two seasons. I believe that under Koeman's guidance and along side Fonte, he could be a brilliant player for us this season. There's clearly a lot of talent there. Completely different situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 interesting that Koeman said he wants 2 or 3 more....which is good news really. Assume 1 of those 2 or 3 is another CB (VvD) what do you suppose the other player position(s) is/are? also, if Caulker does well, I would hope we dont leave it till it is open season before securing his services longer term. Yup. I also like how he said there just isn't any pressure from their side. Sounds like they know their targets, they've watched them / know that their personality and attitude would fit into saints team, have the money available and are in a strong position to negotiate to get our priority signings. ...which actually doesn't surprise me being a saints fan, but it's just good to know they are very optimistic about the summer. I think they're over toby situation and are now just pressing on with getting a replacement in. shuts up a lot of posters here about how behind the scenes it's panic and we're all over the place with bids/signings. Even Caulker, Reed said he'd been looking at him for years (when he was still at Spurs probably), and know that he's got the skills that just need the right environment to be nurtured and developed, rather than this being a panic emergency signing after the toby/gardos affair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Thanks for that, good effort but you do need to tidy up your debating skills. I'll gladly eat my words if we still spend a bit of cash on a proven CB like we were prepared to do with Toby, but if that is it as far as the CB's is concerned there has to be a reason why we are not spending out on that position. If that is it with Caulker on loan, Yoshida and an injured Gardos, we are in for a tough season especially if Fonte gets injured what with the extra games etc. We're clearly going to get another CB so change your sheets and man up FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Completely different situations. In what way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 The posts on here reek of the thread when we signed Bertrand and look how that turned out. I for one am delighted with Caulker. He's still young, has England experience but has just been in two sh1te teams over the last two seasons. I believe that under Koeman's guidance and along side Fonte, he could be a brilliant player for us this season. There's clearly a lot of talent there. I am happy to admit I thought Bertrand was guaranteed toilet with a crappy attitude and wouldn't get better than he was for Villa the season before. Having seen how he's done for us (and how much we're going to miss him for the next month), I'm more than happy to give Caulker, who is certainly no worse than Bertrand was for Villa, the benefit of the doubt - at least until I've seen how he fits the side. For all his flaws and obvious mistakes, Yoshida is still mostly competent for a mid-to-bottom half Prem side, and Caulker is, at worst, competition for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Completely different situations. Very similar situations. Both English defenders who'd been highly touted then had a drop off in form, both signed to fill gaps from us losing important key players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 We're clearly going to get another CB so change your sheets and man up FFS. Why don't you read the following posts you ignorant prat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Caulker could turn out as the signing of the season. Two clubs paid £8m for him, he has played for England and for GB. He has numerous games in the Premier League. He is young, he is big and he is only 23. The move to Saints is a wonderful opportunity for him and Les says we have been tracking him for sometime. Everything points to a very good player here, providing he grabs the opportunity now. This. Might turn out great. If not, it stays a one season loan. Seems good business to me. (As long as we really do have a guaranteed right to sign him permanently if he does do well, unlike Toby Arsehole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 (edited) In what way? Bertrand was coming in as first choice; he was a replacement for a full England international and probably our brightest prospect (we had also been linked with some other high-profile fullbacks); Caulker doesn't have to meet the same standards, assuming he's filling in for Gardos, not TA. At the same time, Caulker is arguably more of a known quantity than Bertrand, so you can only push the 'potential' argument so far. I don't think Caulker will pull up many trees, under the influence of Koeman's fairy dust (or whatever the propaganda is on here) -and I'm more than OK with that as he's not being asked to. Edited 30 July, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maysie Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Bertrand was coming in as first choice; he was a replacement for a full England international and probably our brightest prospect (we had also been linked with some other high-profile fullbacks); Caulker doesn't have to meet the same standards, assuming he's filling in for Gardos, not TA. At the same time, Caulker is arguably more of a known quantity than Bertrand, so you can only push the 'potential' argument so far. I don't think Caulker will pull up many trees, under the influence of Koeman's fairy dust (or whatever the propaganda is on here) -and I'm more than OK with that as he's not being asked to. Lol, propoaganda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Seems like an astute signing to me although would like to see a quality natural left-sided CB come in too. I guess the real telling point will be if Jose get's injured and Caulker has to step up to the plate to cover for him - might be squeaky bum time then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 How can football fans have so diametrically opposing views of the same player ? I regard this as being a squad signing and will be worried if he is first-choice. But I am hoping he will make the most of the opportunity to improve this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 I'm going to put my money on him having a blinding season, only to get 'poached' by Liverpool in summer for £20m, kind of like Toby. He will then go on to be a hilarious flop at Anfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Bertrand was coming in as first choice; he was a replacement for a full England international and probably our brightest prospect (we had also been linked with some other high-profile fullbacks); Caulker doesn't have to meet the same standards, assuming he's filling in for Gardos, not TA. At the same time, Caulker is arguably more of a known quantity than Bertrand, so you can only push the 'potential' argument so far. I don't think Caulker will pull up many trees, under the influence of Koeman's fairy dust (or whatever the propaganda is on here) -and I'm more than OK with that as he's not being asked to. Yeah, there's a bunch of assumptions there. 1) There's no automatic assumption that he's not going to be a starter, just like Bertrand was. We have no idea, at the moment he's probably a first choice CB (of 2) competing with Yoshida. Also, last year plenty of people who should know better were claiming Targett would start. There is a slight difference in that there are 2 CB positions and only one LB, but that's about it. So not much difference there. 2) Caulker and Bertrand were around the same level of "known" on signing. Caulker is 23, Bertrand 25 (but was 24 when we signed him) Caulker has 188 appearances right now, and Bertrand had around 180 appearances before signing for Saints. They were at almost exactly the same stage of their development - a minor difference is Bertrand had around 35 top flight games to Caulker's 82, but that's mainly compensated for by Bertrand being higher profile from his first match for Chelsea. Again, in terms of similarities there are significant parallels, certainly not "completely different situations" - in fact more parallels than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 Quite clear from the OS article that he knows he is behind Jose and Yoshi initially. Clearly backup to Jose to cover for Gardos' injury. Very decent backup IMHO. We will certainly be getting a left side CB as well either to partner Jose or as bavkup to Yoshida. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 (edited) Yeah, there's a bunch of assumptions there. 1) There's no automatic assumption that he's not going to be a starter, just like Bertrand was. We have no idea, at the moment he's probably a first choice CB (of 2) competing with Yoshida. Also, last year plenty of people who should know better were claiming Targett would start. There is a slight difference in that there are 2 CB positions and only one LB, but that's about it. So not much difference there. 2) Caulker and Bertrand were around the same level of "known" on signing. Caulker is 23, Bertrand 25 (but was 24 when we signed him) Caulker has 188 appearances right now, and Bertrand had around 180 appearances before signing for Saints. They were at almost exactly the same stage of their development - a minor difference is Bertrand had around 35 top flight games to Caulker's 82, but that's mainly compensated for by Bertrand being higher profile from his first match for Chelsea. Again, in terms of similarities there are significant parallels, certainly not "completely different situations" - in fact more parallels than not. Both remain reasonable assumptions, granted the first is slightly stronger than the second. 1. Not buying the coy, slippery "at the moment". Most are expecting us to sign another CB, one of sufficient calibre to replace TA (you do too, no doubt); and if we do, it'll completely change the dynamic and competition for places. In the short-term, Yoshida will be the incumbent for the third spot and will have to be dislodged. Either way the drop off from the starting two CBs to the other two will be pretty sizeable if the new CB justifies his likely transfer fee. Conversely, the lack of an option to buy speaks volumes about our initial expectations for Caulker. Bertrand was the starter. There were some who were making Targett the starter; but let's not pretend they weren't also the types who cream themselves over every Academy prospect, the types who were heralding Reed as Schneiderlins heir apparent. Most realistically accepted that Targett who had yet to make his first-team debut, was not starter material. At most, the flexibilities entailed by Bertrand's loan would give Targett space to emerge. By contrast, Caulker is joining a stable of very experienced CBs. 2. There are differences in levels of "known" (even you allude to them). Caulker has played more than twice as many prem games as Bertrand. Progressing through Chelsea's ranks to a CL final suggested something about the lad's potential; that he also looked less than impressive at times may have been due to the constant insecurity of going out on loan and the fear of failure that goes with the big club turf. Who knew. Caulker, by contrast, has enjoyed a steady flow of first-team football -in effect, everything a young footballer could hope for. True he's younger than Bertrand, (only slightly) creating some uncertainty about his ceiling; but that doesn't begin to match Bertrand's unknowns. You might say that Caulker has been unlucky to play for s***e sides; but at some point, you have to ask whether he's part of the reason these teams were so s**te. Chickens and eggs and all that. Of course, none of this makes him a bad pick-up Edited 30 July, 2015 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarniaSaint Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 You only have to look at the managers of Cardiff and QPR to see why he went from "the greatest thing since sliced bread" to his mixed up reputation. Personally I think he's at the right club to resurrect his career and sign permanently in Jan.........we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 If we're looking at another centre back I can see Stephens and Turnbull going back out on loan again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 30 July, 2015 Share Posted 30 July, 2015 The lack of a loan to buy option tells me more about our recent experience with that clause than anything, also if Caulker's contract is up in a year or two it makes no sense to tie ourselves to a deal, especially when QPR could bounce back and want to play him again next season. All of which have nothing to do with his ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 31 July, 2015 Share Posted 31 July, 2015 The lack of a loan to buy option tells me more about our recent experience with that clause than anything, also if Caulker's contract is up in a year or two it makes no sense to tie ourselves to a deal, especially when QPR could bounce back and want to play him again next season. All of which have nothing to do with his ability. I imagine, nothing more than my own opinion, that a lot will depend on QPR coming back up or not. And I am sure that things will be structured somewhat differently than the agreement with Atletico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 31 July, 2015 Share Posted 31 July, 2015 Just having a noggin or 2 in a bar on holiday & get talking to 2 guys from Swansea . They reckon he was different class for them , couldn't praise him highly enough . They reckon he's a perfect match for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le Tissier Posted 31 July, 2015 Share Posted 31 July, 2015 Give him back to swansea and swap him for cork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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