Saints Pre Season Thread

[DuncanRG]

More than anything, today's game showed me how badly we need reinforcements at centre half, reinforcements up front and time to fit them all together. Unfortunately we won't get all three before next Sunday.

 

Leverkusen were a decent outfit though, impressed by them until they reached the penalty area. I think we'd have done much better going forward if we'd controlled midfield (with Morgan, perhaps), but they pressed us out of any possession and we were halfway on the break the whole time, which Pelle struggled with.

Edited 9 August, 2014 by DuncanRG

[Wes Tender]

You think Liverpool bemoaned losing Andy Carroll in the same way Saints fans are going to miss Lallana? Even though we sold Lallana for more than Liverpool sold Carroll? And Carroll will never, ever be considered a significant player in the history of LFC?

 

Riiiight.

 

You need to work on your analogies.

 

The point I made which went right over your head, was that the value of Lallana was massively inflated, in the same way that Carroll's was when he joined Liverpool. They spent £10 million more for Carroll than Lallana. For somebody so adept at sarcasm, I'm surprised that you fail to notice it when others use it.

 

Will Lallana be a significant player in our history? He left too early for that, but he might achieve a footnote stating that he showed enough promise for us to convince Liverpool that he was worth far more than he actually was. And as I say, we will have to wait and see whether he was so great that he couldn't be replaced by somebody as good or better for considerably less money.

[hypochondriac]

You said we were 2 decent signings from a shot at mid table.

 

A "shot" suggests a chance, 50-50 at best. Therefore we can expect that "shot" to be unlikely. Where does that put us? We are not lower midtable. We must be fighting relegation. That's assuming your two "decent" signings arrive. If not, are we doomed?

 

All this from one pre-season game. Genius.

 

How does 50/50 in your mind equate to unlikely? And where did I say I formed that opinion solely based on this one preseason game? Genius.

[Wes Tender]

No idea what your point is there. Totally lost me.

 

OK, so instead I'll challenge your statement from a different direction. We will not miss any player, regardless of their value, if we manage to replace them with somebody as good or better, will we? With me so far? And you state with some certainty that we will not be as good this season as we were last. You can't possibly know that. Nobody can. It might be your opinion, but please don't try and present it a fait accompli, it isn't.

[Latheal]

Personally, took a vow that will remain positive until Sept 1st and give the club the benefit of the doubt. Looking at our "current" 1st 11 I'm really struggling to see how we would be anywhere near relegation. We finished 8th. Have all the 12 teams below us really improved that much? And we really lost that much? I can see Newcastle and Crystal Palace being stronger, possibly West Ham. But the rest seem the same or worse off.

 

I share the same concerns of many posters about our defence, but I'm pretty sure Koeman does too. Hopefully that will be rectified I the next couple of weeks.

 

Of course Lallana, lambert and Lovren are massive losses. Truly believe that Tadic will be an adequate replacement for Lallana (give him a bit of time). Juries out on Pelle, but it's not as if Lambert was an out and out goalscorer last year. Jay was our biggest goal outlet, and no reason to believe he won't be back at some point this season.

 

Gaston's cameos this pre-season have been encouraging. Let's not forget, he was originally purchased to build a team around.

It's interesting to hear that people still moan about him losing the ball. So did Lallana. We forgave him, because he created so much. I'd love to see both Gaston and Tadic in the side, gives us a real creative threat. It's just whether we can keep the other end out, which I don't think we can at the moment. It is a bit of a bonus that both of them can shoot however. Something that infuriated me with Lallana.

 

We've still money to spend. Agree it's not going to be as fluid as last year, but hell, it's not relegation material. We're no worse than Hull last year. And they got into Europe.

[Saint Billy]

Thanks guys for the summaries.

[syd_barrett_saint]

A lot of people saying we lacked something up front. For me, it was exactly the same at the end of last season when J Rod was out. I think he's the most important player to replace going forward. No idea who that could be though.

[Smirking_Saint]

The point I made which went right over your head, was that the value of Lallana was massively inflated, in the same way that Carroll's was when he joined Liverpool. They spent £10 million more for Carroll than Lallana. For somebody so adept at sarcasm, I'm surprised that you fail to notice it when others use it.

 

Will Lallana be a significant player in our history? He left too early for that, but he might achieve a footnote stating that he showed enough promise for us to convince Liverpool that he was worth far more than he actually was. And as I say, we will have to wait and see whether he was so great that he couldn't be replaced by somebody as good or better for considerably less money.

 

Fan in rewriting history after player leaves shocker

 

I think cb answered your point pretty well. Lallana was a big player for us and will undoubtedly be a big loss

[CB Fry]

The point I made which went right over your head, was that the value of Lallana was massively inflated, in the same way that Carroll's was when he joined Liverpool. They spent £10 million more for Carroll than Lallana. For somebody so adept at sarcasm, I'm surprised that you fail to notice it when others use it.

 

Will Lallana be a significant player in our history? He left too early for that, but he might achieve a footnote stating that he showed enough promise for us to convince Liverpool that he was worth far more than he actually was. And as I say, we will have to wait and see whether he was so great that he couldn't be replaced by somebody as good or better for considerably less money.

 

Liverpool bought Carroll for a lot of money, we sold Lallana for a lot of money. We will miss Lallana in a way no Liverpool who ever breathed oxygen missed Andy Carroll and his era defining six goals for Liverpool.

 

As I said, work on your comparisons because this one makes zero sense whatsoever. Nothing went over my head, you're just making a point with an appalling comparison at its heart.

 

And, lastly, him being terrible or legendary at Liverpool and/or our replacement being terrible or legendary for us makes zero difference to Lallana's significant contribution over the Leibherr era. Why would it? His contribution at Saints is over.

Edited 10 August, 2014 by CB Fry

[notnowcato]

How does 50/50 in your mind equate to unlikely? And where did I say I formed that opinion solely based on this one preseason game? Genius.

 

50-50 at best...

What two signings would give us this shot at survival?

The only solid piece of information you have to judge this side, should you wish to do so, are the pre season games. The rest is your opinion.

[Turkish]

The point I made which went right over your head, was that the value of Lallana was massively inflated, in the same way that Carroll's was when he joined Liverpool. They spent £10 million more for Carroll than Lallana. For somebody so adept at sarcasm, I'm surprised that you fail to notice it when others use it.

 

Will Lallana be a significant player in our history? He left too early for that, but he might achieve a footnote stating that he showed enough promise for us to convince Liverpool that he was worth far more than he actually was. And as I say, we will have to wait and see whether he was so great that he couldn't be replaced by somebody as good or better for considerably less money.

 

Will Lallana be a significant player in our history?

 

Well when in years to come people talk about the great saints team that went from bottom of league one to 8th in the premier league in 5 years the names that roll off the tongue will be Dale Stephens, Nicholas Bignall, john otsemebor. Most will have forgotten about Lallana.

[doddisalegend]

I forgot! Someone needs to take our manager clothes shopping!

 

Looked liked he'd been sailing a yacht up and down the Solent before kick off

[doddisalegend]

More than anything, today's game showed me how badly we need reinforcements at centre half, reinforcements up front and time to fit them all together. Unfortunately we won't get all three before next Sunday.

 

Leverkusen were a decent outfit though, impressed by them until they reached the penalty area. I think we'd have done much better going forward if we'd controlled midfield (with Morgan, perhaps), but they pressed us out of any possession and we were halfway on the break the whole time, which Pelle struggled with.

 

Yes the most notable thing was both teams seemed to lack a cutting edge up front. I liked Leverkusens tall bald CB (number 21 I think) anyone know who he was can we bid for him:p

[ericofarabia]

[video=youtube;-dWp0GdJJzU]

 

Is Artur doing an Asley Cole impersonation here?

 

Not sure what the story is behind it, but there are numerous, often very humerous, pics doing the rounds on Twitter with Ashley Cole photo shopped into them just on the peripheral of the main event looking like he is trying to get into the picture. It is always the same pic of him used, stood with hands behind his back and slightly leaning forwards.

 

Funniest ones for me so far have been him breaking the tape just ahead of the runners at the finish of a 100M race, various official team photos and on the pavement of The Beatles Abbey Road Album Cover.

[Wes Tender]

Fan in rewriting history after player leaves shocker.

I think cb answered your point pretty well. Lallana was a big player for us and will undoubtedly be a big loss

 

CB missed the point I was making, because i employed sarcasm. OK, he doesn't think that it was a good point even then, and when it comes to sarcasm I bow to the master.

So, you're another one who thinks that Lallana's departure leaves a gaping hole in our team that apparently cannot be filled by any other player. If we signed Messi to replace him, would we miss Lallana? Well, we have just signed two creative midfielders and Ramirez will also have a chance to finally show the flair that brought him to our attention. As my position is to wait and see whether these players prove to be as good or better than Lallana, how am I re-writing history?

[Wes Tender]

Yes the most notable thing was both teams seemed to lack a cutting edge up front. I liked Leverkusens tall bald CB (number 21 I think) anyone know who he was can we bid for him:p

 

I think that this is him.

 

http://www.bundesliga.com/en/liga/news/2013/0000284113.php

[CB Fry]

CB missed the point I was making, because i employed sarcasm. OK, he doesn't think that it was a good point even then, and when it comes to sarcasm I bow to the master.

So, you're another one who thinks that Lallana's departure leaves a gaping hole in our team that apparently cannot be filled by any other player. If we signed Messi to replace him, would we miss Lallana? Well, we have just signed two creative midfielders and Ramirez will also have a chance to finally show the flair that brought him to our attention. As my position is to wait and see whether these players prove to be as good or better than Lallana, how am I re-writing history?

 

Who on earth has said Lallana leaves a gaping whole that cannot be filled by any other? Or anything remotely like that. You do need to work on your sarcasm, because it works better when there is a grain of truth.

 

Secondly, even if we did sign Messi and he scored 20 goals and set up 20 more I can't see how that diminishes the contribution Adam Lallana made to the rise of our club in the last five years. It doesn't.

[Minsk]

It wasn't a bad . srformance from us. It just looked aanother striking option the new players need just a little bit more time to adjust to the pace of the English game and to their team mates. We certainly weren't overawed by a good German team and I think we shaded the game in terms of possession and intent. There didn't appear to be much between Bertrand and Shaw and he looks a good signing with the same pace down the left. Clyne is quick down the right wing, where on balance the greater threats came from us. We have that strength on both wings, but need to add depth in case of injury or suspension to either player. The midfield was good, even without Morgan. The main thing that he gives that we lack without him is the telling defence-splitting through ball, but today we did manage to get behind their defence on several occasions. Pelle had some nice touches and has some class, but needs somebody like Rodriguez to play off. He's strong on the ball and holds it up well though.

 

There has been some criticism of Yoshida, but I thought that both he and Fonte were pretty solid and Boruc hardly had anything to do the whole match.

 

Mayuka looked as lively as usual, but runs around a bit like a headless chicken. Two or three times he was in the box, ball at his feet, then wasted it with a wayward pass back to a team mate, when a good pass laid on a plate would have reulted in a goal. Decent contribution from Davis as usual and Cork and Ramirez looked good when they came on too.

 

I'm not too far from agreeing with Le Goddard, that we are only a CB and striker short of being as strong or stronger than last season's team. But that's additional to Rodriguez coming back fit and Schneiderlin buckling down, and is a comparison of the starting 11 first team, just to qualify it. Additional depth in the squad could yet be achieved, something we lacked last season.

 

Good summary Wes. That"s pretty much how I saw the match too. We really do need another striker. Mayuka had at least 3 chances to level things up.

[Smirking_Saint]

CB missed the point I was making, because i employed sarcasm. OK, he doesn't think that it was a good point even then, and when it comes to sarcasm I bow to the master.

So, you're another one who thinks that Lallana's departure leaves a gaping hole in our team that apparently cannot be filled by any other player. If we signed Messi to replace him, would we miss Lallana? Well, we have just signed two creative midfielders and Ramirez will also have a chance to finally show the flair that brought him to our attention. As my position is to wait and see whether these players prove to be as good or better than Lallana, how am I re-writing history?

 

What the hell are you on about ? Where have I said losing lallana leaves a gaping hole ? I have merely pointed out that lallanas contributions last year were more then insignificant ?

 

Exactly what signing messi has to do with anything I dont know really ?

[SaintRobbie]

Having reflected on the performance yesterday it seems very clear why we are being linked with the players we are:

 

CB. Rojo. Clearly can cover on the left if needed, but looks a strong prospect at the back. Desperately needed.

 

CB2. Vlaar. Leader, Dutch so may come, and someone that Fonte can rely on to concentrate on his game rather than leading the back four. I love Fonte to bits, but he's no captain. We were missing pitch leadership/passion (granted it was a friendly and we may see that at Liverpool).

 

Striker: Hernandez. Outstanding box player. I think he'll score a pile of goals with Pelle dragging in the defenders - clearly you need two defenders to neutralise Pelle, he is immense. Hope we get him, the next Kevin Phillips to Pelle's Niall Quinn??

 

Right Back. We need a cover man - hence interest in the Derby RB. I thought Clyne was excellent yesterday, he usually makes one howler per game and didn't put a foot wrong we looked very dangerous on the right with him and Tadic linking up. Oh to have a box man target for them like Hernandez! But if he is out we are weak.

 

If we can secure those four we may finish mid-table this season if we can gel them fast, and I am impressed with our coaching staf, very impressed.

 

There are also players we should then look to offload too. Mayuka, either Hoeveld or Yoshida, Ramirez ? Probably in January for some hungrier players. But for now - four more Krueger, four more fast.

Edited 10 August, 2014 by SaintRobbie

[SaintRobbie]

Oh and I can't understand why Isgrove is not attracting more praise. I thought he stood out in the first 20 minutes as one of our better players. Reminded me a little of Shaw, physically he's changed - looking like a bloody good rugby fly half!

 

There's potential there.

[TwoPints]

Good summary Wes. That"s pretty much how I saw the match too. We really do need another striker. Mayuka had at least 3 chances to level things up.

Yep. This looks about right to me.

[Wes Tender]

Who on earth has said Lallana leaves a gaping whole that cannot be filled by any other? Or anything remotely like that. You do need to work on your sarcasm, because it works better when there is a grain of truth.

 

Secondly, even if we did sign Messi and he scored 20 goals and set up 20 more I can't see how that diminishes the contribution Adam Lallana made to the rise of our club in the last five years. It doesn't.

 

Any team is going to miss a £25m players influence. However it's dressed up, we will not be as good next season as we were last season. It's pointless expecting otherwise as it'll set-up for ultimate frustration.

 

We'll be ok league wise, but we won't be as good.

 

It says we will miss Lallana's influence. Infers that he was worth £25 million, and is followed by the statement that we will not be as good next season and that there is no point in believing otherwise. This is just one such statement among many that I can't be arsed to trawl back to that insinuated that the players lost could not or would not be replaced with equivalent or better players.

 

So I counter argue that he was not worth £25 million, that if he and the others are replaced by players as good or better, we will not miss them and will probably do as well or better as a result. I have always then said that we needed to see what signings were made by the closure of the transfer deadline before assessing where we were or might be this season. Please point out where I have denigrated Lallana's contribution to us before he left us.

 

Which part of that do you disagree with?

[Goatboy]

Having reflected on the performance yesterday it seems very clear why we are being linked with the players we are:

 

CB. Rojo. Clearly can cover on the left if needed, but looks a strong prospect at the back. Desperately needed.

 

CB2. Vlaar. Leader, Dutch so may come, and someone that Fonte can rely on to concentrate on his game rather than leading the back four. I love Fonte to bits, but he's no captain. We were missing pitch leadership/passion (granted it was a friendly and we may see that at Liverpool).

 

Striker: Hernandez. Outstanding box player. I think he'll score a pile of goals with Pelle dragging in the defenders - clearly you need two defenders to neutralise Pelle, he is immense. Hope we get him, the next Kevin Phillips to Pelle's Niall Quinn??

 

Right Back. We need a cover man - hence interest in the Derby RB.

 

If we can secure those three or four we may finish mid-table this season if we can gel them fast, and I am impressed with our coaching staf, very impressed.

 

There are also players we should then look to offload too. Mayuka, either Hoeveld or Yoshida, Ramirez ? Probably in January for some hungrier players. But for now - four more Krueger, four more fast.

 

It's the Leeds right back, we won't get any of the others you mentioned and won't sell any of those 4. Other than that, spot on as usual.

[pangy]

I hear people wanging on about Hernandez,where will he play in this 433?

 

I can't see him holding the line on his own and can't see him playing out wide.

 

This is why Utd throw him on as a impact sub when they chase a game

[Wes Tender]

Lallana was a big player for us and will undoubtedly be a big loss

 

If we replace him with a player as good or better, why will he be a big loss? I really do struggle to understand this point you are making. The Messi mention was used as an illustrative example. Although it is an extreme example, as we aren't going to sign him, the point is that if Lallana was replaced by Messi, would you miss Lallana? Well, would you? If not, then it follows logically that provided that the Lallana replacements are as good or better than him, then he will not be a big loss. Especially as we got £25 million for him to re-invest in the team.

[SaintRobbie]

I hear people wanging on about Hernandez,where will he play in this 433?

 

I can't see him holding the line on his own and can't see him playing out wide.

 

This is why Utd throw him on as a impact sub when they chase a game

 

Because he gives us the option to switch to 4-4-2 not just as an impact player from the bench but to to set up before kick off if necessary.

 

Have to be able to switch tactics. Mayuka couldn't achieved that yesterday, he looked uncomfortable in his role and spent too long on the ball trying to set up others. Needs to be greedier and better drilled with Pelle.

Edited 10 August, 2014 by SaintRobbie

[SaintRobbie]

If we replace him with a player as good or better, why will he be a big loss? I really do struggle to understand this point you are making. The Messi mention was used as an illustrative example. Although it is an extreme example, as we aren't going to sign him, the point is that if Lallana was replaced by Messi, would you miss Lallana? Well, would you? If not, then it follows logically that provided that the Lallana replacements are as good or better than him, then he will not be a big loss. Especially as we got £25 million for him to re-invest in the team.

 

I think he means that Lallana brought passion and leadership as well as a technically good player. I agree with you that you can technically replace him but it will take a year or two under Koeman for a dressing room talisman to emerge. Takes time to build low level leadership as it relies on peer acceptance through personality as well as example.

 

So, I can see smirking saints point.

[CB Fry]

Please point out where I have denigrated Lallana's contribution to us before he left us.

 

...how about a dismissive reference to him being a "footnote", and a sneering snipe at his price tag and how he isn't "so great" that he can't be replaced.

 

Plus of course the link with Andy Carroll to solidify the view in your head with high profile failure and wastes of money. Yep, reads like you are a massive fan of Adam Lallana and valued his contribution over the last five years.

 

Cue Wes saying that I misunderstood his post, of course.

 

 

Will Lallana be a significant player in our history? He left too early for that, but he might achieve a footnote stating that he showed enough promise for us to convince Liverpool that he was worth far more than he actually was. And as I say, we will have to wait and see whether he was so great that he couldn't be replaced by somebody as good or better for considerably less money.

Edited 10 August, 2014 by CB Fry

[Beckenham Saint]

Is Artur doing an Asley Cole impersonation here?

 

Not sure what the story is behind it, but there are numerous, often very humerous, pics doing the rounds on Twitter with Ashley Cole photo shopped into them just on the peripheral of the main event looking like he is trying to get into the picture. It is always the same pic of him used, stood with hands behind his back and slightly leaning forwards.

 

Funniest ones for me so far have been him breaking the tape just ahead of the runners at the finish of a 100M race, various official team photos and on the pavement of The Beatles Abbey Road Album Cover.

 

 

They all stem from this, the Roma team photo where Ashley looks to have really settled in well with his new team mates! My favourite one has to be the one with him looking in through the window behind Cheryl Cole and her new fella...

 

 

Was at the game yesterday, I can't believe how stupid some of our fans are. Bloke behind me came up with "If Pelle is a like-for-like Lambert replacement, then I am a like-for-like replacement for Mike Tyson." Seriously, the amount of rubbish coming out of his mouth, I wish he'd bitten my ears off so I couldn't hear him.

 

Pelle looked great at winning the ball in the air (he loves a chested pass, doesn't he!) so just needs someone to pick up his knock-downs and then he will start to be really handy. Think J-Rod will link up well with him. Wanyama was an absolute tank, won almost every tackle he went in for. Thought Tadic and Clyne have clearly struck up a good partnership.

 

Massively impressed with Taider, is clearly a quality player, but then, he came from Inter Milan, so i didn't expect anything less. Really excited to see him play this year, and really hoping Ramirez gets a solid run as he and Taider were the players that looked like making the difference yesterday when they came on.

[positivepete]

I think that this is him.

 

http://www.bundesliga.com/en/liga/news/2013/0000284113.php

 

Yep. He was outstanding yesterday. Two superb tackles in the first half when we were about to create real goal scoring opportunities and a general authority holding together their back line. Can we sign one like him please?

[millbrooktonian]

I took my 4 year old grandson to his first game yesterday ,plenty of why questions and difficult to keep him focused on the game ,but a lovely experience taking a new generation .I told him when I first took his mum to a game she thought super saint the dog played for us !

It was great to see so many little people at the game ,kitted out in sInts shirts etc .

Well don the club for getting pricing right ,which was reflected in the good attendance .Looking forward to the season COYR

[Oldeuboi]

Yep. He was outstanding yesterday. Two superb tackles in the first half when we were about to create real goal scoring opportunities and a general authority holding together their back line. Can we sign one like him please?

 

Agreed. Toprak was on of the best defenders in the Bundesliga last season (Bayer were rock solid title contenders until an implosion) and yesterday was no exception. If we got a defender like him, I'd be massively surprised, but delighted.

 

Was a shame to see Son Heung Min fail to really impose himself on the game, he's usually explosive and one of the best marksmen with both feet. Clyne and Bertrand did a really good job on one of the hottest young prospects in world football.

[Rich102]

Bit late but mixed feelings about yesterday. Quick thoughts:

 

Positives

- Tadic looks class, especially playing on the right with Clyne. Taider also looked good when he came on.

- Bertrand looked solid at LB. Not obviously at Shaw's level but more than good enough for an upper mid table side.

- Ramirez looked fitter and a bit more interested when he came on, and played well. Fonte and S.Davis were also excellent.

 

Negatives

- We miss J-Rod badly on the left. Would love to see Isgrove step up but I don't think he's quite got the quality.

- Pelle looks decent but will need much more service into the box to be effective. Made me realise how good Lambert was at holding the ball up and linking up play.

- In general we didn't look as capable of suffocating the game as we were last year. Obviously it's early days for this squad, but Koeman seems to want to rely on the wingers more, and be more direct going forwards (more longer balls to Pelle). This might work in some games, but I think we're going to end up conceding a lot more than last year whoever we play at the back. Should be more exciting but I'm not sure this kind of system will work as well in the PL as it did in Holland.

 

In short, we should have no relegation worries, but we're clearly weaker both as individuals and a team. This probably isn't news, but it was a bit sad to see all the same. Still, given that a painful adjustment had to be made at some point I think we've come out of it pretty well and, dare I say it, the board and the management probably deserve more credit then they're getting.

[Wes Tender]

...how about a dismissive reference to him being a "footnote", and a sneering snipe at his price tag and how he isn't "so great" that he can't be replaced.

 

Plus of course the link with Andy Carroll to solidify the view in your head with high profile failure and wastes of money. Yep, reads like you are a massive fan of Adam Lallana and valued his contribution over the last five years.

 

Cue Wes saying that I misunderstood his post, of course.

 

History gives perspective, which is what the footnote referred to. Players like those on the forum banner have passed the test of time and will be remembered as club greats. I don't think that one can make out a case that Lallana can be included in that banner, but if you think you can, then go ahead.

 

Do you think that he is irreplaceable with another player as good or better, for less money? Was he worth £25 million? Was that just right, too much, or should we have held out for more? Come on, let's have your thoughts on this, instead of you trying to pick holes in my opinion, let's have yours.

[croydonsaint]

 

They all stem from this, the Roma team photo where Ashley looks to have really settled in well with his new team mates! My favourite one has to be the one with him looking in through the window behind Cheryl Cole and her new fella...

 

 

Was at the game yesterday, I can't believe how stupid some of our fans are. Bloke behind me came up with "If Pelle is a like-for-like Lambert replacement, then I am a like-for-like replacement for Mike Tyson." Seriously, the amount of rubbish coming out of his mouth, I wish he'd bitten my ears off so I couldn't hear him.

 

Pelle looked great at winning the ball in the air (he loves a chested pass, doesn't he!) so just needs someone to pick up his knock-downs and then he will start to be really handy. Think J-Rod will link up well with him. Wanyama was an absolute tank, won almost every tackle he went in for. Thought Tadic and Clyne have clearly struck up a good partnership.

 

Massively impressed with Taider, is clearly a quality player, but then, he came from Inter Milan, so i didn't expect anything less. Really excited to see him play this year, and really hoping Ramirez gets a solid run as he and Taider were the players that looked like making the difference yesterday when they came on.

 

great post Becks

[CB Fry]

History gives perspective, which is what the footnote referred to. Players like those on the forum banner have passed the test of time and will be remembered as club greats. I don't think that one can make out a case that Lallana can be included in that banner, but if you think you can, then go ahead.

 

Do you think that he is irreplaceable with another player as good or better, for less money? Was he worth £25 million? Was that just right, too much, or should we have held out for more? Come on, let's have your thoughts on this, instead of you trying to pick holes in my opinion, let's have yours.

I knew, just knew, my description of Lallana as "significant" in our recent history would be worked up by you into a comparison with the likes of Matt Le Tissier and other club greats in order to make a cheap point. Sorry, too obvious, too easy. Weak.

 

Adam Lallana was an excellent player for us, especially last season when he made the Premier League team of the season and earned England call ups and a lucrative transfer.

 

People saying he will be difficult for us to replace is a pretty anodyne point, but seems to have prompted you to flailing about making ridiculous straw man comparisons to Andy Carroll (what?), and now Saints all time legends (eh?) as well as other irrelevancies such as his transfer fee and, err, Andy Carroll's transfer fee.

 

The world remains bemused by what point you are trying to make. I'd suggest you give up on this one.

Edited 10 August, 2014 by CB Fry

[lickierambert]

General thoughts from yesterday:

 

-I think we'll be ok. Not as good as last year, but ok.

-We need at least 1 CB, but this much is obvious.

-Gut feeling is that Pelle will struggle. I hope not but can't see him replacing Lambert's 15 goals.

-We need a striker. I'd be very happy with Hernandez or (more realistically) Ings.

-Tadic looks pretty good. Wouldn't mind him and Ramirez starting together at some point.

-Bertrand looked decent. Not in Shaw's class, but he'll do just fine for the time being.

-Finally, I wish the season started in 3 weeks, not one. We're a little undercooked which isn't ideal when going to Anfield but I'm reasonably optimistic as a whole.

[Whitey Grandad]

General thoughts from yesterday:

 

-I think we'll be ok. Not as good as last year, but ok.

-We need at least 1 CB, but this much is obvious.

-Gut feeling is that Pelle will struggle. I hope not but can't see him replacing Lambert's 15 goals.

-We need a striker. I'd be very happy with Hernandez or (more realistically) Ings.

-Tadic looks pretty good. Wouldn't mind him and Ramirez starting together at some point.

-Bertrand looked decent. Not in Shaw's class, but he'll do just fine for the time being.

-Finally, I wish the season started in 3 weeks, not one. We're a little undercooked which isn't ideal when going to Anfield but I'm reasonably optimistic as a whole.

 

All fair points. As for Pellè and replacing Lambert's 15 it depends on whether he takes the penalties. How many of the 15 were they?

[Saints foreva]

All fair points. As for Pellè and replacing Lambert's 15 it depends on whether he takes the penalties. How many of the 15 were they?

 

3 I think. WBA, Hull and Man City.

[Batman]

chambers starts for arsenal

 

not bad for an apparent reserve defender

[CWD]

We did ok yesterday. My big concern is the complete lack of chances created from open play. Apart from Ramirez's shot we really created nothing that didn't stem from a set play which highlights the need for a couple more attackers. In the end Clyne was our biggest attacking threat (what a player he is - consistently superb).

 

Would love to be proved wrong but I don't think Isgrove is going to make the grade. We really need a winger to fill that hole while Jay is injured. Redmond would be a good signing.

 

Still, we look very strong in the middle of the park with Davis and Wanyama their usual commanding selves, although I thought Ward-Prowse struggled a bit and would rather see Cork start against Liverpool. Taider looked impressive too, and if Morgan can sort himself out then we look great for that midfield 3.

 

Fonte was excellent and clearly thrived off the extra crowd love he was getting, although Yoshida looked shakey. Not bad, just shakey.

 

Going forward is where I worry. Tadic looks a good player but I'd like to see him try to beat his man more. If our wide players are always cutting inside then it means Pelle spends most of his time with his back to goal, which he did a lot yesterday. Pelle will do well but he needs people running ahead of him, otherwise he looks a bit lost. I was pleased that RK saw this and brought on Mayuka to play with him, but obviously Mayuka is rubbish so was never going to be a lot of help.

 

I would break the bank for Hernandez. Him and Pelle would be like having Crouch and Phillips again!

[Sour Mash]

chambers starts for arsenal

 

not bad for an apparent reserve defender

I don't think he will start most weeks for Arsenal or would have for us if Clyne remained fit.

[waylander]

Bit late but mixed feelings about yesterday. Quick thoughts:

 

Positives

- Tadic looks class, especially playing on the right with Clyne. Taider also looked good when he came on.

- Bertrand looked solid at LB. Not obviously at Shaw's level but more than good enough for an upper mid table side.

- Ramirez looked fitter and a bit more interested when he came on, and played well. Fonte and S.Davis were also excellent.

 

Negatives

- We miss J-Rod badly on the left. Would love to see Isgrove step up but I don't think he's quite got the quality.

- Pelle looks decent but will need much more service into the box to be effective. Made me realise how good Lambert was at holding the ball up and linking up play.

- In general we didn't look as capable of suffocating the game as we were last year. Obviously it's early days for this squad, but Koeman seems to want to rely on the wingers more, and be more direct going forwards (more longer balls to Pelle). This might work in some games, but I think we're going to end up conceding a lot more than last year whoever we play at the back. Should be more exciting but I'm not sure this kind of system will work as well in the PL as it did in Holland.

 

In short, we should have no relegation worries, but we're clearly weaker both as individuals and a team. This probably isn't news, but it was a bit sad to see all the same. Still, given that a painful adjustment had to be made at some point I think we've come out of it pretty well and, dare I say it, the board and the management probably deserve more credit then they're getting.

 

Give him time. You are remembering J-Rod as he was last season before he was injured. It took him a long time to get to that level. Remember how he was when he first arrived.

[Saint Charlie]

Give him time. You are remembering J-Rod as he was last season before he was injured. It took him a long time to get to that level. Remember how he was when he first arrived.

 

He wasn't exactly awful when he first arrived, just not used well. He has certainly improved but was miles better when he signed for us than Isgrove is now.

 

Isgrove could be a handy sub, good option to have, but if he is a starter then we have gone backwards in that sort of area. We let Puncheon to for £1m and he is miles better than Isgrove is at the moment. If he isn't ready now then he shouldn't be in the team.

[lickierambert]

All fair points. As for Pellè and replacing Lambert's 15 it depends on whether he takes the penalties. How many of the 15 were they?

 

Err 3 I think. West Brom away, Man City away and Hull at home? I may have missed one

[Wiggles31]

Bit late but mixed feelings about yesterday. Quick thoughts:

 

Positives

- Tadic looks class, especially playing on the right with Clyne. Taider also looked good when he came on.

- Bertrand looked solid at LB. Not obviously at Shaw's level but more than good enough for an upper mid table side.

- Ramirez looked fitter and a bit more interested when he came on, and played well. Fonte and S.Davis were also excellent.

 

Negatives

- We miss J-Rod badly on the left. Would love to see Isgrove step up but I don't think he's quite got the quality.

- Pelle looks decent but will need much more service into the box to be effective. Made me realise how good Lambert was at holding the ball up and linking up play.

- In general we didn't look as capable of suffocating the game as we were last year. Obviously it's early days for this squad, but Koeman seems to want to rely on the wingers more, and be more direct going forwards (more longer balls to Pelle). This might work in some games, but I think we're going to end up conceding a lot more than last year whoever we play at the back. Should be more exciting but I'm not sure this kind of system will work as well in the PL as it did in Holland.

 

In short, we should have no relegation worries, but we're clearly weaker both as individuals and a team. This probably isn't news, but it was a bit sad to see all the same. Still, given that a painful adjustment had to be made at some point I think we've come out of it pretty well and, dare I say it, the board and the management probably deserve more credit then they're getting.

 

Couldn't make the game so thanks for a very well balanced post. Good to know not everyone on here is bipolar.

[Whitey Grandad]

Err 3 I think. West Brom away, Man City away and Hull at home? I may have missed one

 

Thanks for that. I thought it would be too difficult for me on my ipad but it was 2 away and 1 at home.

 

Liverpool got 12, Chelsea 7, Man City 7, Arsenal 3

[Wes Tender]

I knew, just knew, my description of Lallana as "significant" in our recent history would be worked up by you into a comparison with the likes of Matt Le Tissier and other club greats in order to make a cheap point. Sorry, too obvious, too easy. Weak.

 

Adam Lallana was an excellent player for us, especially last season when he made the Premier League team of the season and earned England call ups and a lucrative transfer.

 

People saying he will be difficult for us to replace is a pretty anodyne point, but seems to have prompted you to flailing about making ridiculous straw man comparisons to Andy Carroll (what?), and now Saints all time legends (eh?) as well as other irrelevancies such as his transfer fee and, err, Andy Carroll's transfer fee.

 

The world remains bemused by what point you are trying to make. I'd suggest you give up on this one.

 

Well, excuse me for thinking that Lallana's contribution to our history would be measured against other Saints players' records to give it some perspective. Silly me.

 

I asked you a couple of questions. Do you think that Lallana is irreplaceable with another player as good or better for less money. Did you think that Lallana was worth the £25 million Liverpool paid for him? Or are you going to hide behind the excuse that in your opinion it is just too anodyne for you to bother with, but you are quite happy nevertheless to stick your oar into my opinions on it.

 

And I admire the sheer arrogance of you inferring that the whole world is at one with you. I'm afraid that it isn't me against the world, it's just you and a few others.

[CB Fry]

Well, excuse me for thinking that Lallana's contribution to our history would be measured against other Saints players' records to give it some perspective. Silly me.

 

I asked you a couple of questions. Do you think that Lallana is irreplaceable with another player as good or better for less money. Did you think that Lallana was worth the £25 million Liverpool paid for him? Or are you going to hide behind the excuse that in your opinion it is just too anodyne for you to bother with, but you are quite happy nevertheless to stick your oar into my opinions on it.

 

And I admire the sheer arrogance of you inferring that the whole world is at one with you. I'm afraid that it isn't me against the world, it's just you and a few others.

 

Which of these two things is more relevant, in August 2014?

 

a) Adam Lallana has been one of the best players for Southampton FC over the last five years, and was in the Premier League team of the season last season, that ended in May 2014, you know, the season a few weeks before this new season starts.

 

or

 

b) Adam Lallana is not as good as Terry Paine.

 

So jolly well done patting yourself on the back for all that clever historical perspective you have but it is utterly meaningless irrelevance.

 

Lallana was one of our best current players and will be tough to replace in season 2014-5 regardless of whether you think he ain't a patch on Ron Davies.

 

And I've answered the transfer fee point already - whether we got 20, 25 or 30 million for him doesn't make him easier to replace. So your view that Liverpool have overpaid doesn't make him easier to replace for us. Yet more total irrelevance. Question, again, dealt with.

 

And stop making out that anyone is saying Adam Lallana is irreplaceable. I'm not, no one is. No one.

 

And we'll done on taking the bait again, I like giving you easy shots. I think everyone can all agree you are easy to predict.