Simon Carter not mincing his words

[saint-crinny]

Never a massive fan of journalists (speaking as an ex-journo myself) speaking "for the fans". If you're writing an opinion piece, rather than a news story, then make it clear that is what it is, your personal take, and don't assume you are the mouthpiece of the supporters as you'll invariably find out that you aren't.

 

There are some valid points in there for sure, not least about Reed and Ralph making some pretty schoolboy PR errors that have left us all despairing, but a quick look on here shows that as is nearly always the case, there are plenty of supporters on both sides of the fence.

 

Just broad-brushing us all as "disgruntled" is wide of the mark.

 

Oh, and get someone to check your work for basic grammar etc before you upload.

[Wes Tender]

Does anyone really still believe ewe wI'll get as good in and be able to build on last season?

 

 

Well, apart from getting in very possibly a better manager, I think that we might well have already signed a better player than Lallana. I believe that if we got Pelle in, we could just have a better striker than Lambert. For me, although Shaw might well prove to be the best LB in English football for the next decade, it is not inconceivable that he could be replaced with somebody else better right now, somebody more experienced and with a decent shot on him. I'm not convinced that Lovren cannot be improved on either. Schneiderlin is the one player we could struggle to replace and it is not even clear whether he will leave us yet. But otherwise I see no reason to suspect that we might not be able to build a better team to start the season than the one that we ended it with, especially having added other players to strengthen the squad's depth, providing more competition in some areas.

 

You've already written off the possibility, but we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

[Ohio Saint]

I have no opinion on the content of that article as i found it totally unreadable and just gave up within the first few lines. Most of the posters on this forum are more coherent!!!

[Batman]

Well, apart from getting in very possibly a better manager, I think that we might well have already signed a better player than Lallana. I believe that if we got Pelle in, we could just have a better striker than Lambert. For me, although Shaw might well prove to be the best LB in English football for the next decade, it is not inconceivable that he could be replaced with somebody else better right now, somebody more experienced and with a decent shot on him. I'm not convinced that Lovren cannot be improved on either. Schneiderlin is the one player we could struggle to replace and it is not even clear whether he will leave us yet. But otherwise I see no reason to suspect that we might not be able to build a better team to start the season than the one that we ended it with, especially having added other players to strengthen the squad's depth, providing more competition in some areas.

 

You've already written off the possibility, but we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

 

Better than Lallana

That is tadic a shoe-in for team of the year then

[Wes Tender]

Better than Lallana

That is tadic a shoe-in for team of the year then

 

More chance of him standing out with us in my opinion than Lallana has playing for Liverpool, so quite possibly.

[Batman]

More chance of him standing out with us in my opinion than Lallana has playing for Liverpool, so quite possibly.

 

You said he was better than Lallana

He is here to replace what Lallana brought to saints

 

That resulted in a spot in team of the season

 

Massive shoes to fill

[Wes Tender]

You said he was better than Lallana

He is here to replace what Lallana brought to saints

 

That resulted in a spot in team of the season

 

Massive shoes to fill

 

As usual, you haven't read my comment properly.

 

I think that we might well have already signed a better player than Lallana.

It is a personal opinion based on a published statistical comparison between the two players which show that Tadic has been more productive than Lallana both in number goals and assists, during a shorter timescale. The element of doubt that I clearly introduced, is to factor in the possibility that a player scoring in the Dutch top flight might not equate to a player scoring in the PL. But then again, Lambert was reckoned to be unilkely to be able to score in the PL just because he knocked them in for fun in the third division and then the second division, so perhaps if Pelle can knock them in for fun in Holland's top flight, no particular reason why he can't do it for us here too. Notice the use of the "perhaps" and "no reason" as caveats before you accuse me of stating my opinion as fact.

 

Lallana; big boots and an even bigger head.

[St Marco]

It is a personal opinion based on a published statistical comparison between the two players which show that Tadic has been more productive than Lallana both in number goals and assists, .

 

To be fair I don't think you can compare the two due to the fact the dutch league is very weak in comparison to the PL. Nobody has made it beyond the group stage since 2005 of the CL. And that's with some pretty average groups.

 

That isn't saying if you are good in Holland you can't be good in England as that would be false. Look at Hannibal the Cannibal he has done very well. But even his strike rate is lower here then it was in Holland.

 

I think Tadic will do very well but it is a big step up in level of difficulty. Your basically playing world class teams every week.

[tedmaul]

Players will sign ... Patience

[eurosaint]

Should I know who Simon Carter is?

 

http://www.simoncarter.net/collections/index.aspx

[Polaroid Saint]

http://www.simoncarter.net/collections/index.aspx

 

We should get him in for the Watch contract, save a few grand on players signing.

 

Mind you, if I could justify the price tag to Mrs. Polaroid, I would get one of those dragonfly print shirts. Lovely.

[revolution saint]

Well, apart from getting in very possibly a better manager, I think that we might well have already signed a better player than Lallana. I believe that if we got Pelle in, we could just have a better striker than Lambert. For me, although Shaw might well prove to be the best LB in English football for the next decade, it is not inconceivable that he could be replaced with somebody else better right now, somebody more experienced and with a decent shot on him. I'm not convinced that Lovren cannot be improved on either. Schneiderlin is the one player we could struggle to replace and it is not even clear whether he will leave us yet. But otherwise I see no reason to suspect that we might not be able to build a better team to start the season than the one that we ended it with, especially having added other players to strengthen the squad's depth, providing more competition in some areas.

 

You've already written off the possibility, but we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

 

Wow, just how big are your rose tinted glasses? It must be strawberry fields forever wherever you look. Joking aside you're right when you say we'll just have to wait and see because no-one aside from Nostradumus can predict the future (and he was patchy at best).

 

But (always a but eh?) here's where we currently stand:

Lost our best premiership manager

Lost our captain and England International

Lost our leading goalscorer and England International

Lost our bright young thing and England International

Have an unsettled and want-to-leave best central defender

Have an unsettled and wants-to-leave best midfielder

 

None of those statements can be refuted, and none of them make you a better team. I'm not blaming the board, Les Reed or anyone for this situation - just pointing out that we are currently much weaker than we were at the end of last season. Common sense innit?

 

So, to get better we need to sign players (not always easy) and make sure they're better but cheaper. Well, good luck on doing that. Our recent big transfer record is more miss than hit and the task of overseeing their integration will be an untested manager in this division (and if you were being unkind a failure outside of Holland).

 

If you look at how we managed to do so well last season then it was based on a settled side and players used to playing together - we haven't lost it completely but we have lost an important part of that. Our best players with the exception of Lovren and Boruc were ones who had been here a while and benefited from that - we really haven't done that well at bringing new players in and getting them to perform - yet you seem to be suggesting that it's possible we could be better? Yep, possible but then so is the chance Harry Redknapp will avoid a cliche.

 

So I guess we will wait and see - I hope you're right and we do manage to get everything right. History and logic suggests we won't though. I imagine this will be seen as a "bedwetter" type post but whatever - the fact that I don't see this summer so far as being in any way positive for saints won't affect my support for them.

[sotonist]

But (always a but eh?) here's where we currently stand:

Lost our best premiership manager

Lost our captain and England International

Lost our leading goalscorer and England International

Lost our bright young thing and England International

Have an unsettled and want-to-leave best central defender

Have an unsettled and wants-to-leave best midfielder

 

None of those statements can be refuted

best premier league manager? arguable. pochettino had a different league and better resources available to him than strachan.

lost our leading scorer? until december yeah.

[sotonist]

and strachan managed to get a team to a cup final in the same year.

[adrian lord]

I suspect that the grammatical and structural crimes in the article were actually a result of this copy being on the website rather than the print paper itself, and set out by some work-experience teen, not the author themselves. If you read the Daily Telegraph website (or any other national daily for that matter) you will find the proof reading and layout to be well below print standards.

[Wes Tender]

Wow, just how big are your rose tinted glasses? It must be strawberry fields forever wherever you look. Joking aside you're right when you say we'll just have to wait and see because no-one aside from Nostradumus can predict the future (and he was patchy at best).

 

But (always a but eh?) here's where we currently stand:

Lost our best premiership manager

Lost our captain and England International

Lost our leading goalscorer and England International

Lost our bright young thing and England International

Have an unsettled and want-to-leave best central defender

Have an unsettled and wants-to-leave best midfielder

 

None of those statements can be refuted, and none of them make you a better team. I'm not blaming the board, Les Reed or anyone for this situation - just pointing out that we are currently much weaker than we were at the end of last season. Common sense innit?

 

So, to get better we need to sign players (not always easy) and make sure they're better but cheaper. Well, good luck on doing that. Our recent big transfer record is more miss than hit and the task of overseeing their integration will be an untested manager in this division (and if you were being unkind a failure outside of Holland).

 

If you look at how we managed to do so well last season then it was based on a settled side and players used to playing together - we haven't lost it completely but we have lost an important part of that. Our best players with the exception of Lovren and Boruc were ones who had been here a while and benefited from that - we really haven't done that well at bringing new players in and getting them to perform - yet you seem to be suggesting that it's possible we could be better? Yep, possible but then so is the chance Harry Redknapp will avoid a cliche.

 

So I guess we will wait and see - I hope you're right and we do manage to get everything right. History and logic suggests we won't though. I imagine this will be seen as a "bedwetter" type post but whatever - the fact that I don't see this summer so far as being in any way positive for saints won't affect my support for them.

 

I don't mind your post, because it is accepting that it is indeed possible that we might yet produce a team that is better than the team that finished the last season, although in your opinion it is unlikely. And you back up your opinion with reasoned arguments and accept that we will have to wait and see how things turn out.

 

I agree that I might possibly be over-optimistic, but then I pride myself on being a fairly good judge of character and believe that from what I have seen of Koeman so far, he strikes me as having a lot more about him than Pochettino did, more honest and open too. As good as those players seemed for us, recent events have proven that as important as team unity is, the behaviour of Lovren and Lallana in particular has been disruptive, so I am almost relieved to see them go, if Lovren leaves as well. If the likes of them can be replaced with such players who are true professionals with the character of Davis, Cork and Fonte, we won't be doing too badly if they can play a bit too.

 

As I have said before, it might take a while to bed in the new players, it might not. These players allegedly wish to leave because of the imagined lack of ambition of the board post-Cortese and yet were unprepared to have the common courtesy to hear the new manager's ambitions for his new team. That tells me that they for pure greed, rather than for the excuses they tried to get us to believe. Although some of our fans have also already predicted relegation because they believe it is unlikely that we will be able to replace the players who have gone, I am entirely happy to give Koeman and the board the opportunity to prove what they say, that they aim to continue our upward trajectory.

[Wes Tender]

lost our leading scorer? until december yeah.

 

I'm guessing that he meant Lambert, who more often than not had been our leading goalscorer?

 

And I agree with you about Strachan. What could he have achieved with the Liebherr money, considering what he achieved under the pauper Lowe regime.

[brmbrm]

He really should mince his words: mince them, stir them round then chuck them on the paper. They would be more likely to be readable.

 

See what i did there? Two sentences in one paragraph. Sentences are not the same as paragraphs. See - I have gone and been and done it again.

 

Note also how the general subject of each paragraph is different.

 

And he makes money from writing for FFS sake? Unpossible!

[revolution saint]

He really should mince his words: mince them, stir them round then chuck them on the paper. They would be more likely to be readable.

 

See what i did there? Two sentences in one paragraph. Sentences are not the same as paragraphs. See - I have gone and been and done it again.

 

Note also how the general subject of each paragraph is different.

 

And he makes money from writing for FFS sake? Unpossible!

 

To be honest grammar is a humble refuge for an argument against the content. I'm sure the lounge will provide many opportunities to vent your spleen against journalism though.

[Frank's cousin]

Well, apart from getting in very possibly a better manager, I think that we might well have already signed a better player than Lallana. I believe that if we got Pelle in, we could just have a better striker than Lambert. For me, although Shaw might well prove to be the best LB in English football for the next decade, it is not inconceivable that he could be replaced with somebody else better right now, somebody more experienced and with a decent shot on him. I'm not convinced that Lovren cannot be improved on either. Schneiderlin is the one player we could struggle to replace and it is not even clear whether he will leave us yet. But otherwise I see no reason to suspect that we might not be able to build a better team to start the season than the one that we ended it with, especially having added other players to strengthen the squad's depth, providing more competition in some areas.

 

You've already written off the possibility, but we'll just have to wait and see, won't we?

 

Wes, again I admire your pragmatism and positivity on this one, and like all hope you are right ad that we spend well and can get a decent squad together before the start of the season. However, I do unfortunately feel that;

 

a) we will spend less on squad additions than we have brought in through sales

b) there will certainly be non 'extra'- our net spend will be negative

c) from what we saw last season, some of those academy kids have a long way to go - great that we have them and great to slowly bring them in early, but a big difference between using an 18. Year old because they are ready and using them because you have to

d) transfers tend to be always have risk attached and most clubs are happy to get a 'lovren' in 2.... Some of the additions we get will fail.... So it is always better having players who you know can deliver, rather than selling and HOPING they can

e) Simply dont believe we will see players who are better than what we sold.... If we do, the scouting will have been exceptional, they will all need to settle in quick luck will have been on our side..... Better internationals of the quality of Lambert, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren, and potentially Schneiderlin.... Simply won't go to a 'mid table side that. Selling it's better players and won't be paying the 80k a week +. Are you really hopeful that we will get 5-6 better than that? Sorry I don't see it happening

f) Finally, most argued last season that we lacked squad depth and this restricted us in terms of our progress. Not only have we so far seen these departures and more likely, they are our BEST players, we would need 8 or 9 of the 10-12mil quality and hope they all become decent squad members, with 5 or 6 being able to replace our best for us to be improved on last season...

 

All in all we can only live in hope, rather than expectation.

 

Sure this is what football and players have become for clubs of our size - any relative success will always sadly mean best players are gone before we see what we could really achieve.... Life goes on and in the grand scheme of things it is 'only football' and therefore not that important....

[Wes Tender]

Wes, again I admire your pragmatism and positivity on this one, and like all hope you are right ad that we spend well and can get a decent squad together before the start of the season. However, I do unfortunately feel that;

 

a) we will spend less on squad additions than we have brought in through sales

b) there will certainly be non 'extra'- our net spend will be negative

c) from what we saw last season, some of those academy kids have a long way to go - great that we have them and great to slowly bring them in early, but a big difference between using an 18. Year old because they are ready and using them because you have to

d) transfers tend to be always have risk attached and most clubs are happy to get a 'lovren' in 2.... Some of the additions we get will fail.... So it is always better having players who you know can deliver, rather than selling and HOPING they can

e) Simply dont believe we will see players who are better than what we sold.... If we do, the scouting will have been exceptional, they will all need to settle in quick luck will have been on our side..... Better internationals of the quality of Lambert, Shaw, Lallana, Lovren, and potentially Schneiderlin.... Simply won't go to a 'mid table side that. Selling it's better players and won't be paying the 80k a week +. Are you really hopeful that we will get 5-6 better than that? Sorry I don't see it happening

f) Finally, most argued last season that we lacked squad depth and this restricted us in terms of our progress. Not only have we so far seen these departures and more likely, they are our BEST players, we would need 8 or 9 of the 10-12mil quality and hope they all become decent squad members, with 5 or 6 being able to replace our best for us to be improved on last season...

 

All in all we can only live in hope, rather than expectation.

 

Sure this is what football and players have become for clubs of our size - any relative success will always sadly mean best players are gone before we see what we could really achieve.... Life goes on and in the grand scheme of things it is 'only football' and therefore not that important....

 

It is probably true that if one starts off a project thinking that the likely result will be failure, then you are well on the way to it failing before you even commence. Cortese was derided initially for his ambition and then grudgingly it has been admitted that his positivity was infectious and drove the team to achievements that have surprised a lot of people.

 

Regarding the points you make:-

 

a) I don't agree. We might spend less on the players we have or will sell, but that is not surprising, given that we have achieved exceptionally inflated prices for them. But our expenditure will also be on other players needed to add depth to the squad and to replace the players who have left because they are not deemed good enough any longer. There is no evidence yet from the board that they will not spend that money.

 

b) Surely this is the same as point a), isn't it?

 

c) Has there been any evidence yet that the manager will introduce academy players who are not yet ready. Every time an academy player has been introduced so far, eyebrows are raised and there are dark mutterings that he isn't ready. And yet that applied to Walcott, to Bale, to Oxlade, J W-P, Shaw and Chambers. Where is the evidence that we "have to" use any academy player yet?

 

d) Of course transfers are risky. But equally Lovren who you cite was risky too, as he was under a bit of a cloud at Nice and we took a gamble on him. So somebody wants to buy him because of his form here and yet he could easily revert to his form at Nice, in fact his behaviour recently indicates that he might be a loose cannon. As I said earlier, if you buy players with the character of Davis, Fonte and Cork, you are on safer ground, but probably not as exciting. Of course it is better to keep the players you know can perform, but then that is a fantasy, as if they are that good, then they will be attractive to the top teams, as we have found out. But based on your argument, that is also a risk for those top clubs too.

 

e) I understand that we do indeed have an excellent scouting network. Your list of better internationals is amusing, as we got Lambert from the third division, Lallana and Shaw from our academy and took a gamble on Lovren bearing in mind he was out of favour at Nice. Schneiderlin was also a gamble on a raw kid, who we developed into the player he now is. A good spot by our scouts, eh? Players like that won't go to a top ten PL club? There are only 7 clubs above us at the moment and they can only accommodate so many players each in their squads. There are more players who want to play in the EPL than there are places for them. They might use us as a stepping-stone to better things, but then such is life.

 

F) As you say, most argued that we lacked squad depth, so I'm sure that is also plainly apparent to the board and the manager. As well as the vastly inflated fees that we have commanded from the sale of those who have departed, we also have a large sum of money from the broadcast rights. You don't believe that we will spend most of it on improving the squad, whereas I do, although it might be prudent to keep some of it back for the January transfer window.

 

As you say, we will have to wait and see.

[brmbrm]

To be honest grammar is a humble refuge for an argument against the content. I'm sure the lounge will provide many opportunities to vent your spleen against journalism though.

 

OK. The content is unsubstantiated and opinionated misleading presented as fact. Crap journalism, but he has some blank paper to fill I supppose and it is probably the best he can manage.

[doddisalegend]

To be fair I don't think you can compare the two due to the fact the dutch league is very weak in comparison to the PL. Nobody has made it beyond the group stage since 2005 of the CL. And that's with some pretty average groups.

 

That isn't saying if you are good in Holland you can't be good in England as that would be false. Look at Hannibal the Cannibal he has done very well. But even his strike rate is lower here then it was in Holland.

 

I think Tadic will do very well but it is a big step up in level of difficulty. You're basically playing world class teams every week.

 

Hull, Crystal palace and Burnley fans will love you for that:D...I would say there are about 4 world class teams in the PL.

[Professor]

The three players who have gone were effectively England B internationals, none being in the first choice starting XI. Shaw will continue to develop and is by far the biggest loss but that the other two are replaceable is evidenced by the rapid signing of Tadic and the signing this weekend of Pelle. If Koeman can deal with the Lovren/Schneiderlin situations there are grounds to feel optimistic about the quality of the team. Possibly the toughest test for next season is the strengthening by other clubs that were above us last year because ultimately how well you do depends not just on your own team but on how good the others are.

[Batman]

The three players who have gone were effectively England B internationals, none being in the first choice starting XI. Shaw will continue to develop and is by far the biggest loss but that the other two are replaceable is evidenced by the rapid signing of Tadic and the signing this weekend of Pelle. If Koeman can deal with the Lovren/Schneiderlin situations there are grounds to feel optimistic about the quality of the team. Possibly the toughest test for next season is the strengthening by other clubs that were above us last year because ultimately how well you do depends not just on your own team but on how good the others are.

 

Seriously mate. Some of the biggest pile of shyte written on here for a while

[Legod Second Coming]

It should be like this:

 

Both chairman Ralph Krueger and director Les Reed.

 

Made statements.

 

That were quickly used to beat them with.

 

When their words were exposed.

 

As hollow ones.

 

The final word is wholly superfluous.

 

It should have read:

 

"When their words were exposed as hollow."

 

I hate bad writing. Really, really hate it. The quality of journalism in the world today has been ruined by social media and the belief that everyone can communicate simply because they have the tools so to do.

 

We all have cars, it does not make us Ayrton Senna...

[sadoldgit]

Seriously mate. Some of the biggest pile of shyte written on here for a while

 

Really? I dont think the post was unreasonable. Lambert will never start an International and Lallana was a bit player in the WC and if he was going to be a shoe in you would think it would have been in Brazil. There is no reason not to feel optimistic as we have a decent manager on board and are clearly looking to build a decent squad. Unless of course you are a bed-wetter in which case the sky has fallen in and there is no point in living. Surely supporting a football club is all about hope over expectation. There are some serious no hopers on here which makes me wonder why they both.

[Frank's cousin]

Really? I dont think the post was unreasonable. Lambert will never start an International and Lallana was a bit player in the WC and if he was going to be a shoe in you would think it would have been in Brazil. There is no reason not to feel optimistic as we have a decent manager on board and are clearly looking to build a decent squad. Unless of course you are a bed-wetter in which case the sky has fallen in and there is no point in living. Surely supporting a football club is all about hope over expectation. There are some serious no hopers on here which makes me wonder why they both.

 

its all about perspective.... in life the whole episode is meaningless, its just football and no one should get themselves all worked up about it... but when discussing Saints and what as happened, its only reasonable to be critical, that even with decent new players, bedding in, settling etc and the risk that not all will work out, i think we will be weaker.... and yet we must pick up points early given the way the fixtures have fallen... ultimately saints go on whatever....

[Wes Tender]

Seriously mate. Some of the biggest pile of shyte written on here for a while

 

And frankly this is amongst the most juvenile put-downs without backing it up with any counter argument that there has been on here for quite a while. None of the points he made were that unreasonable as opinions.

 

I know that your opinion is that the three players we lost to the glory clubs are irreplaceable, but if you aren't prepared to even accept the possibility that they just might be bettered by those who replace them, then your viewpoint is rather blinkered.

 

Try reading it again and this time observe the "if","possibly", "there are grounds", before you go off at half-cock. It is making you look stupid.

[david in sweden]

......nothing quite like drumming up lots of controversial issues ....especially in the "silly season "....(sorry the close season)..... is there Simon (Carter)?.

 

You look (according to your Echo pic)...to be a bit younger than my two sons, and they learned to stop wetting their nappies on these issues a long time ago.

 

Trying to organise transfers and get the right players in place isn't an overnight job, and we'll be lucky if half the job's done by August.

 

Dragging up issues between... players - The Board - managers (past and present) is surely a commonplace situation in most clubs - isn't it ?

 

What a good job everything works so well in your office ! No-one complaining about YOU, or your boss ....or wanting a higher salary or wanting to leave the Divine Echo.

 

Thank goodness you aren't running SFC. Why not wait until you have something positive to write about Saints ....or do you enjoy ignoring that sort of " good news " ?.

[Polaroid Saint]

The final word is wholly superfluous.

 

It should have read:

 

"When their words were exposed as hollow."

 

I hate bad writing. Really, really hate it. The quality of journalism in the world today has been ruined by social media and the belief that everyone can communicate simply because they have the tools so to do.

 

We all have cars, it does not make us Ayrton Senna...

Love that last phrase and I shall nick it! Well said.

[The9]

Yuck, one line paragraphs.

 

I hate that.

 

True story.

 

Quite.

 

As a result.

 

I didn't read it.

[goneawol]

Ronald Koeman, the new manager of Southampton, has told his central defender Dejan Lovren that he is not for sale and he wants him back for training. Lovren is trying to force through a move to Liverpool, or even Manchester United.

 

This was always going to happen, once Southampton cashed in on Luke Shaw, Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert, and allowed manager Mauricio Pochettino to leave for Tottenham Hotspur. Lovren knows Southampton’s moment has passed.

 

The best the club can hope for next season is stagnation — it will be an outstanding achievement if Koeman can take them forward having lost key elements of the team. Why, then, would Lovren hang around for what is more likely to be managed decline?

 

Koeman’s message is that Southampton are no longer a selling club, but we know this is not true. More importantly, so does Lovren and every other good player on the books.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2690540/Alexis-Sanchez-great-signing-Arsenal-hes-not-quite-Luis-Suarez.html

 

[Wes Tender]

Ronald Koeman, the new manager of Southampton, has told his central defender Dejan Lovren that he is not for sale and he wants him back for training. Lovren is trying to force through a move to Liverpool, or even Manchester United.

 

This was always going to happen, once Southampton cashed in on Luke Shaw, Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert, and allowed manager Mauricio Pochettino to leave for Tottenham Hotspur. Lovren knows Southampton’s moment has passed.

 

The best the club can hope for next season is stagnation — it will be an outstanding achievement if Koeman can take them forward having lost key elements of the team. Why, then, would Lovren hang around for what is more likely to be managed decline?

 

 

Koeman’s message is that Southampton are no longer a selling club, but we know this is not true. More importantly, so does Lovren and every other good player on the books.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2690540/Alexis-Sanchez-great-signing-Arsenal-hes-not-quite-Luis-Suarez.html

 

How did this oaf get the Sports writer of the year award?

 

By stagnation, presumably he means that we could achieve eighth again.

 

So we lost key elements of the team. But we received massively inflated fees for them and it doesn't seem to have occurred to him that if we use that money wisely, there is the possibility that we can actually replace them with better players for less money and then spend the surplus on other players to strengthen the squad still further.

 

So it will be a massive achievement for Koeman if he can take us forward, but then there is the presumption that what Pochettino did, Koeman cannot improve upon if those players are adequately replaced. Likely managed decline? Well, let's wait and see.

 

Samuels needs some assistance in understanding the meaning of the statement that we are no longer a selling club. It means that we do not need to sell players to balance the books. He seems to be too used to the idea from the Lowe days and it hasn't penetrated yet that we have wealthy owners. Also, although he seems to have realised that "having cashed in" (as if that was a necessity) on those players, we have a huge sum of money at Koeman's disposal, so that is why he emphasises that we are not a selling club.

 

But then of course, every English club is a selling club from the perspective that none of them can keep a player that wishes to leave. Perhaps the oaf should have accused Manchester United, Liverpool and Arsenal of being selling clubs too when their star players left.

[farawaysaint]

Ronald Koeman, the new manager of Southampton, has told his central defender Dejan Lovren that he is not for sale and he wants him back for training. Lovren is trying to force through a move to Liverpool, or even Manchester United.

 

This was always going to happen, once Southampton cashed in on Luke Shaw, Adam Lallana and Rickie Lambert, and allowed manager Mauricio Pochettino to leave for Tottenham Hotspur. Lovren knows Southampton’s moment has passed.

 

The best the club can hope for next season is stagnation — it will be an outstanding achievement if Koeman can take them forward having lost key elements of the team. Why, then, would Lovren hang around for what is more likely to be managed decline?

 

Koeman’s message is that Southampton are no longer a selling club, but we know this is not true. More importantly, so does Lovren and every other good player on the books.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2690540/Alexis-Sanchez-great-signing-Arsenal-hes-not-quite-Luis-Suarez.html

 

 

[MarkSFC]

I know this may be hard to understand for some but there is a difference between selling some players and being a selling club. Arguably and arbitrary difference but having a business model that relies on selling is the definition of a 'selling club' whereas selling players at opportune moments for the betterment of all concerned but obviously mainly the club which without do not impact on budgets or operations negatively is the action of a healthy 'non-selling' club. We are far nearer if not wholly in the latter camp.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[badgerx16]

We've replaced a manager who has won bugger all with a manager who has actually won things as a player and a manager, we've replaced somebody we signed as a League 1 'journeyman' with a striker our new manager knows and trusts, we've ripped off Man Utd with the fee for a teenager with 1 full season behind him, we've overcharged Liverpool for Lallana the Strop and replaced him with Tadic, and now we've put the shutters down on further player exits as the preseason starts, whilst hopefully looking to cash in on our transfer bounty and strengthen the squad.

Yep, looks like the 'Sports writer of the year' has clearly got his finger right on the pulse there, LOL.

[Polaroid Saint]

There is no obligation under UK law to print the truth. None at all.

 

Providing what you write doesn't defame or incite hatred or criminal behaviour, then you are free to express whatever you like, however you like.

[The9]

Koeman’s message is that Southampton are no longer a selling club, but we know this is not true. More importantly, so does Lovren and every other good player on the books.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2690540/Alexis-Sanchez-great-signing-Arsenal-hes-not-quite-Luis-Suarez.html

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From a chat I had with one of the youth players' parents a few weeks back, one of the main problems seems to be precisely that the top few clubs do see us as a stepping stone and that's exactly the message the agent was feeding to the parents; "Saints are a (very good) feeder club". If parents are being told their kids should leave when they get in the first team years before they're even in the first team, and they've been planning for a move if they're good enough from years before, that's a very difficult message for the club to control. Not sure I should say which agent, but let's just say it isn't difficult to work out if you think of an academy product that's rapidly stepped out of the academy into a large transfer.

[buctootim]

From a chat I had with one of the youth players' parents a few weeks back, one of the main problems seems to be precisely that the top few clubs do see us as a stepping stone and that's exactly the message the agent was feeding to the parents; "Saints are a (very good) feeder club". If parents are being told their kids should leave when they get in the first team years before they're even in the first team, and they've been planning for a move if they're good enough from years before, that's a very difficult message for the club to control. Not sure I should say which agent, but let's just say it isn't difficult to work out if you think of an academy product that's rapidly stepped out of the academy into a large transfer.

 

For those we have developed since 8, the players and the parents should be grateful the club have made their son into a professional well paid footballer. They clearly owe us some loyalty and at least a couple of years in the first team. For those picked up later at 14 or 16 when their talent was already evident maybe just a whacking big fee is sufficient compensation nad not selling on would deter promising players from coming here in the first place.

[The9]

For those we have developed since 8, the players and the parents should be grateful the club have made their son into a professional well paid footballer. They clearly owe us some loyalty and at least a couple of years in the first team. For those picked up later at 14 or 16 when their talent was already evident maybe just a whacking big fee is sufficient compensation nad not selling on would deter promising players from coming here in the first place.

 

The point being, none of the academy kids' parents are likely to see it like that. One of the parents (who I don't know but is a friend of a friend) outright told me on FB how she perceived it, and the thought process was purely of Saints as a feeder club. If that's already the plan for a teenager who's been in the system for years, good luck undoing that thought process if it actually comes to fruition.

 

The other "problem" of course, is that due to Saints' successes with academy products, there are practically no instances of kids being sold by Saints to big clubs where they have failed - the conveyor belt has churned out Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Shaw (and at least one other) in the meantime.

 

You'd also be hard pressed to say the "class of '07" types featuring the likes of Surman, Dyer, Cranie, Blackstock, Best, M Mills etc ever went for a big deal in the first place and then failed to have served as a warning. In fact, Saints seem to generally sell players to precisely the right level, probably because only teams at the right level are interested in them to begin with. Looking at Surman's stalled career at Wolves/Norwich is probably the only example, and that one was a sale out of dire necessity. So fundamentally, to the onlooker, "leaving Saints" probably always looks like a good thing.