Polaroid Saint Posted 16 July, 2014 Share Posted 16 July, 2014 Cool. I was being a bit lazy and unclear with that riposte, everyone's entitled to their opinion! Sadly, in this instance, it appears it is Alpine's OPINION that a spat with a defender is a bigger contribution to a football tournament than an assist for a winning goal. Personally, I believe the two things can be objectively compared; one being meaningless and the other being key to the final result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Spoke to someone today who knows Gaston. Said that he fell out with Poch pre season last year, hence why his game time was limited. Will be interested to see whether we see his full talent under Koeman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascadia Saint Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Spoke to someone today who knows Gaston. Said that he fell out with Poch pre season last year, hence why his game time was limited. Will be interested to see whether we see his full talent under Koeman. I know it's been two fairly fruitless years already, but I would love to see Gaston come good this season. Be like a new signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Spoke to someone today who knows Gaston. Said that he fell out with Poch pre season last year, hence why his game time was limited. Will be interested to see whether we see his full talent under Koeman. Would be a massive success for Koeman if he could help Gaston realise some of that potential that is undoubtedly there. The optimist in me hopes for him to be a big hit this season. The cynic in me acknowledges that while he may not, at least he'll be given a fair chance this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JxgrSaint Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 He played with Taïder at Bologna didn't he? Maybe he was brought in for that reason as well? Having someone who knows his game as well as a new manager and new system will hopefully bring out the best in Gaston, obviously got heaps of talent but it's just not quite clicked at a Saints yet for whatever reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 8 August, 2014 Share Posted 8 August, 2014 Would be a massive success for Koeman if he could help Gaston realise some of that potential that is undoubtedly there. The optimist in me hopes for him to be a big hit this season. The cynic in me acknowledges that while he may not, at least he'll be given a fair chance this season... Hes looked a lot happier this pre-season, very smiley. I do think he might really click with the new management and system (and with Lallana gone). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 (edited) I have no prove but i think our former nice manager upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Our former nice manager is not all he appears to be Edited 9 August, 2014 by Viking Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonjoe Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 I have no prove but i think the Argie ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Argie ***** is not all he appears to be Nothing like a bit of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 (edited) Soton joe Just for you I have amended my post. I do not want to offend the politically correct forum police , I'm sorry our decent last manager was a a manager full if loyalty and dedication. Towards Southampton football club Ps I have had a few pints of scapa special tonight Edited 9 August, 2014 by Viking Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Soton joe Just for you I have amended my post. I do not want to offend the politically correct forum police , I'm sorry our decent last manager was a a manager full if loyalty and dedication. Towards Southampton football club Ps I have had a few pints of scapa special tonight Jaysus. They're all out tonight. You can be ****ed off at MP for leaving if you like. Bit the constant references to his country of birth are irrelevant. Lallana is English, he did it. I don't see people referring to him as an English *****. He's just a *****, same as Lallana, same as Lovren etc. all nationalities have there fair share of ***** and decent people. Such generalisations are just petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Oh sorry kelvins right glove Yes I agree he is a total **** sorry I referred to his country of origin , so remiss of me . It's the scapa special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Ahhh, accusations of racism. Strange thing racism. It gets bandied around like confetti these days depending on ones outlook. Nothing racist at all to me, xenophobic instead, but then that is a much longer word to write. Even then is it xenophobic or just a flippant use of country of origin as a descriptive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Ahhh, accusations of racism. Strange thing racism. It gets bandied around like confetti these days depending on ones outlook. Nothing racist at all to me, xenophobic instead, but then that is a much longer word to write. Even then is it xenophobic or just a flippant use of country of origin as a descriptive? Being xenophobic and racist aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both at the same time, just like Viking was in his original post. And just being flippant? I suggest you stop apologising for what most of us can see as particularly offensive and backward in this 'day and age'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Nothing like a bit of racism. Exactly. And that was nothing like a bit of racism. Poch is an Argie ****. I should know, I lived there for 9 years. I know some lovely Argies too (who even call themselves Argies in English). But also a lot of Argie ****s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Exactly. And that was nothing like a bit of racism. Poch is an Argie ****. I should know, I lived there for 9 years. I know some lovely Argies too (who even call themselves Argies in English). But also a lot of Argie ****s. Whether or not your friends use it, it's a term of racial disparagement. Would you call a Pakistani person a 'Paki' regardless of the fact of whether or not they identified with the term? Let's put it into context: "I have no prove but i think the Paki ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Paki ***** is not all he appears to be" So, is that racist or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Plenty of hate figures after this summer, not sure why one still at the club still receives such vitriol. No need for whipping boys this season chaps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Er, just to clarify, I was talking about Ramirez not Alpine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Whether or not your friends use it, it's a term of racial disparagement. Would you call a Pakistani person a 'Paki' regardless of the fact of whether or not they identified with the term? Let's put it into context: "I have no prove but i think the Paki ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Paki ***** is not all he appears to be" So, is that racist or not? Yes, "Paki" is racist. Well done on pointing that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 I don't think fitting him and Tadic together will be any easier. Doubt he'll do much for us but I'd love to be proved wrong Agree..... He will struggle again. These days you have to retain the ball, work hard and be skilful. Unfortunately Gaston only gets one out of three of those essentials right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 9 August, 2014 Author Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Whether or not your friends use it, it's a term of racial disparagement. Would you call a Pakistani person a 'Paki' regardless of the fact of whether or not they identified with the term? Let's put it into context: "I have no prove but i think the Paki ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Paki ***** is not all he appears to be" So, is that racist or not? Well that word is a known derogatory term whereas Argie is not. Anyway I am of the 'think Gaston will perform this season' brigade. But I have been for the last two years. I always felt Poch didn't like him. He played better under Adkins IMO. Fair play to him for appearing to want to stay as he could justify wanting to leave way more than the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Whether or not your friends use it, it's a term of racial disparagement. Would you call a Pakistani person a 'Paki' regardless of the fact of whether or not they identified with the term? Let's put it into context: "I have no prove but i think the Paki ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Paki ***** is not all he appears to be" So, is that racist or not? Ive got a black mate and we all call him jiggerbo and you know what? He absolutely loves it! He such a good lad a few years back we had a 18th century themed fancy dress party and he went as a slave. We all pretended to whip him and threw bananas at him. He tonight it was hilarious and so did we, stuck a few of the videos on Youtube and them dogooders made us take them down. No sense of humour some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Whether or not your friends use it, it's a term of racial disparagement. Would you call a Pakistani person a 'Paki' regardless of the fact of whether or not they identified with the term? Let's put it into context: "I have no prove but i think the Paki ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Paki ***** is not all he appears to be" So, is that racist or not? The term "Argie" isn't racist, get off your moral high horse and stop trying to lecture people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a1ex2001 Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Well that word is a known derogatory term whereas Argie is not. Anyway I am of the 'think Gaston will perform this season' brigade. But I have been for the last two years. I always felt Poch didn't like him. He played better under Adkins IMO. Fair play to him for appearing to want to stay as he could justify wanting to leave way more than the others. Exactly saying Argie is a derogatory term is like saying Brit is one, they simply are not and never have been. Back on topic, fingers crossed for Ramirez to come good this season, the club needs it and so does he! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Ramirez undoubtedly has lots of talent but not sure where he fits in the system. Would be best in one of the central midfield three but doesnt defend well enough. He was quality there vs Bmth but they barely pressured the ball. Out wide he isnt suited and in any case he would want to play on the right, cutting in on his left foot, but Tadic is there. Can only see him being mostly a sub again, but hope Im wrong as enjoy watching him. Plus he does create a lot of chances. Just seems to have lost that spark he had at the start. Bet he is excellent at his next club, the formation and league just isnt quite suited to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 The term 'Argie' is racist? Don't make me laugh, please! I'm Irish, is the term 'Paddy/Mick/Spud (take your pick) racist ? No, of course it's not! Ffs, get real:blush: Ps, hope GR thrives under the new boss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syd_barrett_saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Whether or not your friends use it, it's a term of racial disparagement. Would you call a Pakistani person a 'Paki' regardless of the fact of whether or not they identified with the term? Let's put it into context: "I have no prove but i think the Paki ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Paki ***** is not all he appears to be" So, is that racist or not? If you can't tell the difference between the use of the word Paki and the use of the word Argie, then you truly are a British ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Back to topic, I hope Urug Gaston Ramirez does well for us this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Being xenophobic and racist aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both at the same time, just like Viking was in his original post. And just being flippant? I suggest you stop apologising for what most of us can see as particularly offensive and backward in this 'day and age'. Thanks sweetie, but I wasn't apologizing for anyone. You need to see what is derogatory. A **** is. An Argie **** is as well. But Argie to me is not being racist. And tell me, what race are the Argies? Mostly now of European descent, as we are. Admittedly they are southern we are northern. and no doubt they have some indigenous blood in them. But basically I would have thought they were Caucasian like us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangermouth Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Being xenophobic and racist aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both at the same time, just like Viking was in his original post. And just being flippant? I suggest you stop apologising for what most of us can see as particularly offensive and backward in this 'day and age'. I disagree. In your narrow-minded, blinkered, programmed response way it may well be but its root is simply the English-speaking world's truncating of the word "Argentinian" with the suffix "ie", pronounced "ee" which occurs all the time and shows itself as an extreme in the plethory of anagrams that exist in current 'business' English. While its meaning is, of course, culture-bound and situation specific and so to ascribe something from the outside is more your overlaying your own views on others. The classic example is the male, often working-class (but nothing wrong with that, is there?), use of what is apparently invective as a means of showing familiarisation and friendship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Perhaps Mr Decidendi considers the term "Aussie" racist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Yes, "Paki" is racist. Well done on pointing that out. Not in Australia it isn't; Paki is used all the time in Oz to no offence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 The term 'Argie' is racist? Don't make me laugh, please! I'm Irish, is the term 'Paddy/Mick/Spud (take your pick) racist ? No, of course it's not! Ffs, get real:blush: Ps, hope GR thrives under the new boss! Paddy and Mick both have a long history as derogatory terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamberwellSaint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 I know it's been two fairly fruitless years already, but I would love to see Gaston come good this season. Be like a new signing. I think that's an important point to avoid wrist-slitting: Compared with the squad that has played all the pre-season games, with a bit of luck and a bit of judgement on Koeman's part, we also have Rodriguez (proven top flight striker) and Schneiderlin (proven top flight and international midfielder) to return, and compared with last season, a brilliant player like Ramirez who might just need better man-management than he was getting. There have been mutterings of a Pochettino's-favourites-clique last season, which might explain some of the toy-throwing from Morgan and Lovren and might augur well for the team with a more open approach from Koeman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Ive got a black mate and we all call him jiggerbo and you know what? He absolutely loves it! He such a good lad a few years back we had a 18th century themed fancy dress party and he went as a slave. We all pretended to whip him and threw bananas at him. He tonight it was hilarious and so did we, stuck a few of the videos on Youtube and them dogooders made us take them down. No sense of humour some people. Top trolling Turks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Perhaps Mr Decidendi considers the term "Aussie" racist? I think context is important. The fact this country and Argentina went to war thirty years ago and still have unresolved issues concerning the sovereignty of the Malvina's, then one might suspect an element of distrust and hostility to creep into casual language use, particularly slang. Its all about the descriptive noun or adjective accompanying the word, but in general I would say derogatory terms change depending on who is speaking, who they are speaking to and where and when they are saying it. But enough of my kike reasoning; here is Tim Minchin to put it all in context properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Exactly saying Argie is a derogatory term is like saying Brit is one, they simply are not and never have been However you dress it up, MP was rarely referred to as "The Argie" last season. Now he has left (in a way that has irked many Saints fans) he is often being referred to as "The Argie". It is not exactly being used as a term of endearment - it is being used as a way to express one's dislike for the bloke. Therefore "derogatory" is perhaps an apt way of putting it, even if "racist" might be OTT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 When I lived in aussie land I was always called 'Pommie' and quite ofrten 'pommie bas*ard' Was that racist or just normal fun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 He has apologised and edited the message. Can we get back on topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 The fact this country and Argentina went to war thirty years ago and still have unresolved issues concerning the sovereignty of the Malvina's, I'm sure you meant to type The Falklands. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 When I lived in aussie land I was always called 'Pommie' and quite ofrten 'pommie bas*ard' Was that racist or just normal fun? Neither - it was derogatory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 I'm sure you meant to type The Falklands. Right? GOTCHA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Spoke to someone today who knows Gaston. Said that he fell out with Poch pre season last year, hence why his game time was limited. Will be interested to see whether we see his full talent under Koeman. Isn't there some, ah, history between Uruguay and the argies? Did he say whether that had anything to do with it? And yes, I'd love to see him do well here, fantastic talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpweySaint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Whether or not your friends use it, it's a term of racial disparagement. Would you call a Pakistani person a 'Paki' regardless of the fact of whether or not they identified with the term? Let's put it into context: "I have no prove but i think the Paki ***** upset a few of our players last season Spud players should heed the warning The Paki ***** is not all he appears to be" So, is that racist or not? That is rather black and white. I think it often depends on the context - I don't know Viking personally so would not want to pass a judgement either way but saying it must be a racist statement because 'paki' is deemed to be one is a simplistic notion. Are we offended by the short-hand Brits? Or are Americans by Yanks? Often, no. It's about context and intent. If he uses the term Argie as shorthand for Argentine and then refers to Poch as a c**t, that's fine. If he says he is an Argie therefore he is a c**t, it's not .... Anyway like others still hoping Gaston comes good. Have always thought he would come good and has the ability but this season really is make or break for him in the English game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddings and Monkeys Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 GOTCHA! Sorry - didn't know it was a game we were playing. (FFS) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 I like Gaston a lot and hope this is a cracking season for him. I also really like his Special Tea and hope that, following a successful season for Ramirez, I can buy a Saints branded 'Mate' bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Sorry - didn't know it was a game we were playing. (FFS) Sorry I should have added a smiley; it is a joke (satire even!) in reference to you mentioning the Falklands in response to my mentioning the Malvinas. If you don't get the comment, I am sure others will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katalinic Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 Sorry - didn't know it was a game we were playing. (FFS) I think its more a reference to the sinking of the Belgrano and The Sun headline at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratio_decidendi Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 I guess after reading everyone's comments, I suppose I was originally a bit heavy handed. There are grey areas when it comes to terms like this, and it's clearly a sensitive debate. Call me fickle, but there's been some good points raised. To some extent, I take back what I originally posted. My opinion now is that for many people, owing to previous conflict, the term Argie can be deemed as offensive (and even racist in some cases), yet the degree of 'offensiveness' is unlikely to ever be as strong as the word Paki in our current British context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 GOTCHA! Are you a Sun editor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 9 August, 2014 Share Posted 9 August, 2014 I saw Gaston play against Bournemouth - playing a deeper role than we've previously seen with Tadic in front of him. He was the puppet master - pulling all the strings , with everything coming through him and pure class. I've got a feeling that he is going to be a big player for us this season (And yes, part of that is hope) and that a few forum members will need to rethink their opinions of him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now