Why are we so confident in Reeds judgement?

[OldNick]

Apart from Lovren all the players that are being chased were here before he came. Many of the duffers have been bought under his watch, why all of sudden is he seen as a superb judge?

[Baird of the land]

Pretty sure reeds been here for Boruc, clyne, lovren, yeshiva, wanyama, Davis, Jrod etc at least.

Personally I think the notion of castigating him personally for failed transfers is as silly as praising him personally for successes.

Scouting is a collective process.

[Nolan]

Because he has been in the same role since 2010 and Cortese would have sacked him if he wasn't good at what he does.

[CB Fry]

Apart from Lovren all the players that are being chased were here before he came. Many of the duffers have been bought under his watch, why all of sudden is he seen as a superb judge?

He isn't "all of a sudden being seen as a superb judge".

 

You've made up that assertion so you can get upset about it.

[Killers Knee]

he gets it right about 50% of the time

[david in sweden]

he gets it right about 50% of the time

 

what is the 50% that he's got wrong ?

[david in sweden]

Because he has been in the same role since 2010 and Cortese would have sacked him if he wasn't good at what he does.

 

EXACTLY, he' s one of the few who passed the " Cortese Test of Efficiency ". A lot of his work goes on behind the scenes and he's obviously got the talent for something in the area in which he works.

[angelman]

Why start a thread about whether you have confidence in him? Its really got nothing to do with you/us. The only person who needs confidence in him is the owner.

[UpweySaint]

Why start a thread about whether you have confidence in him? Its really got nothing to do with you/us. The only person who needs confidence in him is the owner.

 

If we only discussed things we, as fans, could genuinely expect to hold much influence over on this forum I imagine we would lose about 90% of the threads.

 

The chap has not asked if we should all sit down and decide Reed's future but is, perhaps a little cynically, seeking to gage the opinions of other fans on somebody so crucial to the running of our club.

 

If you really want to make things more relevant we could always pop the resulting chaos of this thread onto a few sides of A4 and post it to the board ...

 

Either way back on topic ....

 

Les Reed has been a part of a committee that has served us relatively well. You don't make the progress we have by making, generally, decent decisions. A couple of mistakes along the way for sure but, on the whole, our recruitment has been rather decent.

 

I was massively sceptical of Reed when he came in, his track record had blemishes, but he has done ok so far and I am quietly optimistic we may see some decent transfer activity soon enough.

[ant]

In answer to the question posed: empirical evidence.

 

Content of the OP is massively disingenuous.

[lifeintheslowlane]

he gets it right about 50% of the time

 

what is the 50% that he's got wrong ?

 

That is plainly a ridiculous notion...I've just done a detailed calculation and it works out that he gets it right 68.3% of the time.

[Wes Tender]

Apart from Lovren all the players that are being chased were here before he came. Many of the duffers have been bought under his watch, why all of sudden is he seen as a superb judge?

 

How much is down to Reed'd judgement and how much is down to the scouting reports and subsequently what the manager wants? Take the case of Osvaldo for example. Surely that is a case that Pochettino wanted him because of their past association and Reed rubber stamped it and got the paperwork sorted. The blame for that poor decision rests firmly on Pochettino's shoulders. How many of the other signings are directly attributable to Reed's decisions rather than to others?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

In answer to the question posed: empirical evidence.

 

Content of the OP is massively disingenuous.

 

What evidence is that then? He's been DoF once and that was at Fulham. Check out what happened if you want, but if you are of a nervous disposition its best avoided. His responsibilities have increased massively post-Cortese. Before he was a cog in the machine. Now he is the ultimate decision maker on all things football.

[Nolan]

What evidence is that then? He's been DoF once and that was at Fulham. Check out what happened if you want' date=' but if you are of a nervous disposition its best avoided. His responsibilities have increased massively post-Cortese. Before he was a cog in the machine. Now he is the ultimate decision maker on all things football.[/quote']

You're understating his original position at Saints... "On 16 April 2010 Reed was appointed Head of Football Development and Support overseeing four main areas: the Youth Academy, Scouting and Recruitment, Sports medicine and Science, and Kit and Equipment Management."

[Lallana's Left Peg]

You're understating his original position at Saints... "On 16 April 2010 Reed was appointed Head of Football Development and Support overseeing four main areas: the Youth Academy, Scouting and Recruitment, Sports medicine and Science, and Kit and Equipment Management."

 

My original point stands. He was never the decision maker. Now he is. So where is the evidence he gets things right?

[kpturner]

A few posts in and still nobody trawling up the Charlton stuff. Pleasantly surprised!

[Nolan]

My original point stands. He was never the decision maker. Now he is. So where is the evidence he gets things right?

As I stated earlier. The fact that he is still employed. People get pushed out if they get things wrong.

[kpturner]

My original point stands. He was never the decision maker. Now he is. So where is the evidence he gets things right?

 

Where is the evidence he gets things wrong?

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Where is the evidence he gets things wrong?

 

Check out his term at Fulham as DoF.

[kpturner]

Check out his term at Fulham as DoF.

 

I really don't give a monkeys about his time at Fulham. There could be any number of unseen circumstances behind any issues there. The only thing that matters is the success (or otherwise) of his tenure with Southampton.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I really don't give a monkeys about his time at Fulham. There could be any number of unseen circumstances behind any issues there. The only thing that matters is the success (or otherwise) of his tenure with Southampton.

 

In which case lets judge him after he has fulfilled his existing role for a period of time. There is no evidence which suggests he has a track record at the level of responsibility he currently has. Previously he has set-up departments and processes for which I think he has done a great job. Now he also gets to make the decision that comes out the other side of those processes and that is quite something different altogether. Which players stay and go etc. Who the Manager is. Hiring and firing staff.

 

I am not quite convinced by him because he has no track record, however what concerns me a little more is that he is the only member on our Board with footballing experience. I find that a little worrying personally. It's not a good Governance model given football is our business.

[kpturner]

In which case lets judge him after he has fulfilled his existing role for a period of time. There is no evidence which suggests he has a track record at the level of responsibility he currently has. Previously he has set-up departments and processes for which I think he has done a great job. Now he also gets to make the decision that comes out the other side of those processes and that is quite something different altogether. Which players stay and go etc. Who the Manager is. Hiring and firing staff.

 

I am not quite convinced by him because he has no track record, however what concerns me a little more is that he is the only member on our Board with footballing experience. I find that a little worrying personally. It's not a good Governance model given football is our business.

 

Fair enough. That said, and although I may have to eat my words one day, I have no issues with Reed, his role, or the job he is doing (thus far).

[SaintRobbie]

At the start of the summer debacle, when Krueger screwed up his interview and Lambert left for a humiliating song from Liverpool, we looked to Les to steady the ship.

 

To judge his ability in my eyes he had to:

 

1. Get in a manager and pledge no more player sales unless the manager said so - after a spell of assessment.

 

2. Hold on to a Lallana as our captain and irreplaceable core.

 

3. Hold on to Lovren. (Too many of us on here remember how the loss of one centre back - killer - arguably saw us relegate from a position of strength. The last time we finished 8th we failed to reinforce then lost a key play then we fell rapidly.

 

4. Send a strong message of no further player sales.

 

5. Buy at least 3 strikers to replace Osvaldo, Lambert and Gallagher.

 

6. Find a new goalkeeper.

 

Record to date?

 

Appointed the best manager available. Everywhere else appears to be failing. But, we won't know until we relegate how he's done.

 

The real failure for me is what a lack of steel the man appears to be demonstrating. Seduced by over the odds fees and a record of bringing in players that are not good enough for the Premier League as much as bringing in successes.

 

Les - AGENTS AND PLAYERS WILL KEEP PRODDING YOU WITH DEMANDS AND TRANFER REQUESTS FOR BIG SIGN ON FEES WHILST THEY PROD SOFT FLESH. ONCE THEY PROD STEEL THEN THEY WILL STOP. CORTESE PROVIDED THE STEEL. Our first signing to steady the ship should be to go grovelling back to Cortese and bring him back and sack Krueger.

 

With tens of millions to replace our guaranteed performers we can only hope with Les Reed that we will replace half of them at best.

 

Overall? I put my faith in him to deliver. So far he's failing, massively. I don't even think he's given the manager chance to fully assess the players before selling them either. We are weak. A very weak club and the agents and players and clubs like Liverpool know it and are taking the ****. It's humiliating for us and for our players.... No wonder they want away.

 

There is a fire sale going on at St Mary's and what's left is not good enough to keep us in the league. Our signings are unpredictable at best. Les needs to show some steel.

 

.... but I can only see weakness. We need Cortese. For £1m a year he'd now save us from further humiliation. We need tough leadership and ambition. Our players know there isn't any. It's time to swallow our pride and bring him back.

Edited 30 June, 2014 by SaintRobbie

[ant]

In which case lets judge him after he has fulfilled his existing role for a period of time. There is no evidence which suggests he has a track record at the level of responsibility he currently has. Previously he has set-up departments and processes for which I think he has done a great job. Now he also gets to make the decision that comes out the other side of those processes and that is quite something different altogether. Which players stay and go etc. Who the Manager is. Hiring and firing staff.

 

I am not quite convinced by him because he has no track record, however what concerns me a little more is that he is the only member on our Board with footballing experience. I find that a little worrying personally. It's not a good Governance model given football is our business.

 

All fair comment.

 

Alternatively you could look at it from the POV that Reed has earned his stripes and deserves a chance at the next level, rather than simply seeing it as him never having had this level of responsibility. How do you prove your worth a step up if never promoted thus?

 

I tend to agree in terms of Les being the only footballing man on the board. That said, many day-to-day processes in a football club will be little different to those of any other company and you'd hope that the likes of the Koemans and Sammy Lee will have influence through working with Reed, if not a direct say at board level.

[Nolan]

I am not quite convinced by him because he has no track record, however what concerns me a little more is that he is the only member on our Board with footballing experience. I find that a little worrying personally. It's not a good Governance model given football is our business.

 

Which is, of course, one more than when Cortese was in charge.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

All fair comment.

 

Alternatively you could look at it from the POV that Reed has earned his stripes and deserves a chance at the next level, rather than simply seeing it as him never having had this level of responsibility. How do you prove your worth a step up if never promoted thus?

 

I tend to agree in terms of Les being the only footballing man on the board. That said, many day-to-day processes in a football club will be little different to those of any other company and you'd hope that the likes of the Koemans and Sammy Lee will have influence through working with Reed, if not a direct say at board level.

 

I can understand why Reed was appointed - as you say he perhaps deserves a shot based on his other work at the club plus from a continuity perspective there is lots of value in retaining him. I just don't think it should be assumed all will go well - it's 50/50 from my perspective which is very worrying when you consider the amount of money that is about to be spent.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

Which is, of course, one more than when Cortese was in charge.

 

And also one of the reasons it was suggested the owner wanted a more sensible approach to things. So it appears we've gone from 1 person with football experience on the Board (Les Reed) to...one person with football experience on the Board (Les Reed). Only this time Les Reed makes the decisions and doesn't just have input.

[eurosaint]

I don't know what this forum is coming to, we can't even agree who the prime scapegoat should be ??

:)

[MarkSFC]

Not the time to judge. 31st August is the first time to do so.

My instinct is that he and the owner have very decent plans in place. You don't hire someone like Koeman with one. More importantly someone like Koeman isn't going to sign without knowing the whole situation. It's tough but we need to be patient!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bucks Saint]

At the start of the summer debacle, when Krueger screwed up his interview and Lambert left for a humiliating song from Liverpool, we looked to Les to steady the ship.

 

To judge his ability in my eyes he had to:

 

1. Get in a manager and pledge no more player sales unless the manager said so - after a spell of assessment.

 

2. Hold on to a Lallana as our captain and irreplaceable core.

 

3. Hold on to Lovren. (Too many of us on here remember how the loss of one centre back - killer - arguably saw us relegate from a position of strength. The last time we finished 8th we failed to reinforce then lost a key play then we fell rapidly.

 

4. Send a strong message of no further player sales.

 

5. Buy at least 3 strikers to replace Osvaldo, Lambert and Gallagher.

 

6. Find a new goalkeeper.

 

Record to date?

 

Appointed the best manager available. Everywhere else appears to be failing. But, we won't know until we relegate how he's done.

 

The real failure for me is what a lack of steel the man appears to be demonstrating. Seduced by over the odds fees and a record of bringing in players that are not good enough for the Premier League as much as bringing in successes.

 

Les - AGENTS AND PLAYERS WILL KEEP PRODDING YOU WITH DEMANDS AND TRANFER REQUESTS FOR BIG SIGN ON FEES WHILST THEY PROD SOFT FLESH. ONCE THEY PROD STEEL THEN THEY WILL STOP. CORTESE PROVIDED THE STEEL. Our first signing to steady the ship should be to go grovelling back to Cortese and bring him back and sack Krueger.

 

With tens of millions to replace our guaranteed performers we can only hope with Les Reed that we will replace half of them at best.

 

Overall? I put my faith in him to deliver. So far he's failing, massively. I don't even think he's given the manager chance to fully assess the players before selling them either. We are weak. A very weak club and the agents and players and clubs like Liverpool know it and are taking the ****. It's humiliating for us and for our players.... No wonder they want away.

 

There is a fire sale going on at St Mary's and what's left is not good enough to keep us in the league. Our signings are unpredictable at best. Les needs to show some steel.

 

.... but I can only see weakness. We need Cortese. For £1m a year he'd now save us from further humiliation. We need tough leadership and ambition. Our players know there isn't any. It's time to swallow our pride and bring him back.

 

Gee, there is a ton of negativity and ill informed nonsense on here normally but this is plumbing new lows. Good to see that, among other fails, you think:

 

- players have no power at all and we could resist any proposed sales or moves no matter what, provided we have Cortese;

 

- that Koeman will not have had any discussions at interview, or since being hired, about players and who we might keep, sell or buy. Further that while finishing his holiday, he kept his phone and emails off and has only started any SFC work today.

 

Well done

Edited 30 June, 2014 by Bucks Saint

[david in sweden]

Apart from Lovren all the players that are being chased were here before he came.

Many of the duffers have been bought under his watch, why all of sudden is he seen as a superb judge?

 

I guess because he has the job in the first place.

 

btw ...which " duffers " are you referring to ....and do you know that LR had the final say in their signing ?

 

IF YOU SAY ; Osvaldo....surely that was Pochettino's call?. He obviously felt he could " tame " the fellow, who clearly belongs in the same psych.ward as Suarez

[SaintRobbie]

Gee, there is a ton of negativity and ill informed nonsense on here normally but this is plumbing new lows. Good to see that, among other fails, you think:

 

- players have no power at all and we could resist any proposed sales or moves no matter what, provided we have Cortese;

 

- that Koeman will not have had any discussions at interview, or since being hired, about players and who we might keep, sell or buy. Further that while finishing his holiday, he kept his phone and emails off and has only started any SFC work today.

 

Well done

 

There is one - possible positive - Koeman.

 

There are no other positives as we cannot guarantee replacing our best players despite the high fees we are demanding.

 

Players have all the power - well their agents and families do - the point is that Cortese was firmly in the driving seat before he left. NOT the players.

 

Has Koeman even met Shaw or Lallana? Has he met Lovren? Has he met Sneidelan? Pretty illinformed decision making from Koeman? Or always part of the Clubs plan?

 

Krueger is contributing nothing. Les Reeds jury's out. The most important appointment we could make now is leadership and steel.

[SaintRobbie]

I guess because he has the job in the first place.

 

btw ...which " duffers " are you referring to ....and do you know that LR had the final say in their signing ?

 

IF YOU SAY ; Osvaldo....surely that was Pochettino's call?. He obviously felt he could " tame " the fellow, who clearly belongs in the same psych.ward as Suarez

 

Good point on Osvaldo. No guarantees Koemans signings will replace our losses either.

[positivepete]

Les Reed is a well known innovator in football circles. His original appointment is what has led us to the current high standard of the academy and the new training ground. The Premier League blueprints for academies are based entirely on Les Reed's academy plans when he was at the FA. The FA did not have the nous to push the plans through. Leibherr's money and vision enabled Reed to show how it should be done.

 

We will always sell academy graduates, it is part of the business funding model that will enable us to be self funding. Rather that that than a fan loaned club like the lot down the road.

[Bucks Saint]

 

Players have all the power - well their agents and families do - the point is that Cortese was firmly in the driving seat before he left. NOT the players.

 

Les Reeds jury's out.

 

Yep, while Cortese was here he was inundated with offers from Top 4 clubs for our players, while they all queued up to ask for a move. Remind me, where is Ox?

 

As for Reed, an hour ago you said "So far he's failing, massively", so at least you are a man of rapidly changing views

[S-Clarke]

I'm not sure why he's held in such disdain by some of our fans, he has been a part of our rise as much as anyone else. Key in implementing the football development side of the club, and if Cortese is untouchable as so many believe, then by working so closely with Reed over the last 5 years is probably a decent indication to how he was thought of by Cortese.

 

During this summer of utter upheaval, we need to thank our lucky stars we still have continuity in the form of Reed.

[SaintRobbie]

Yep, while Cortese was here he was inundated with offers from Top 4 clubs for our players, while they all queued up to ask for a move. Remind me, where is Ox?

 

As for Reed, an hour ago you said "So far he's failing, massively", so at least you are a man of rapidly changing views

 

Not changing views at all. I was keen to give him a chance. So far he's got a manager and is losing on the remaining challenges he facing. Realism is always negative, never optimistic. I have said we need to give Les Reed á chance, he can still turn this round, but so far he is failing to keep the players. Jury's out is all I am saying.

 

Still don't know what value Krueger has added compared to the potential deterrence Cortese would have.

[SaintRobbie]

I'm not sure why he's held in such disdain by some of our fans, he has been a part of our rise as much as anyone else. Key in implementing the football development side of the club, and if Cortese is untouchable as so many believe, then by working so closely with Reed over the last 5 years is probably a decent indication to how he was thought of by Cortese.

 

During this summer of utter upheaval, we need to thank our lucky stars we still have continuity in the form of Reed.

I think Reed is our only hope for the reason you say, I just need him to show the steel Cortese would've... And say NO MORE SALES.

 

I don't care if Lovren goes on strike. Some time he has to stop the rot.

[Mallagroth]

And also one of the reasons it was suggested the owner wanted a more sensible approach to things. So it appears we've gone from 1 person with football experience on the Board (Les Reed) to...one person with football experience on the Board (Les Reed). Only this time Les Reed makes the decisions and doesn't just have input.

 

Which also makes him more qualified than 90% of the posters on this forum. I'm confident he knows what he is doing and also that Kat is going to care infinitely more than us at how Les Reed is performing as it's her millions on the line. I reckon maybe we should have some faith in the people actually qualified to do the job.

(I'm not saying we shouldn't have an opinion or voice it, that is the point in SWF after all.)

[Matthew Le God]

Apart from Lovren all the players that are being chased were here before he came. Many of the duffers have been bought under his watch, why all of sudden is he seen as a superb judge?

 

Les Reed has been at Saints since April 2010 when we were in League 1. The club's progression since then should give you confidence in his ability. It is Reed that Cortese turned to for football matters.

[SaintRobbie]

Les Reed has been at Saints since April 2010 when we were in League 1. The club's progression since then should give you confidence in his ability. It is Reed that Cortese turned to for football matters.

 

I think that's a good post. If you are right (& I think you're on to something here) then, the qualities that Cortese and Reed had together worked. So what does Krueger actually bring to the party? Evenif Les Reed delivers this summer, who provides the ruthlessness to succeed and the ambition? It's not Krueger that's for sure.

[david in sweden]

I think that's a good post. If you are right (& I think you're on to something here) then, the qualities that Cortese and Reed had together worked.

 

So what does Krueger actually bring to the party? Even if Les Reed delivers this summer, who provides the ruthlessness to succeed and the ambition? It's not Krueger that's for sure.

 

 

 

The Chairmanship role varies a lot between clubs / individual personalities.

 

Rupert Lowe seemed to want a " hands-on " role in relation to player purchase ......

 

Nicola Cortese employed people with "know-how " who could do the job and he seemed quite satisfied with Les Reed's peformance for over 3 years.

 

Ralph Krueger has a truly international persona, has status and knows his way around the whole World. Even giving lectures politicians, economists and business people (take a look at Wikipedia / You Tube)

 

NONE of these three were " FOOTBALL " (in the accepted sense), but all made valuable contributions (at various times).

 

I don't expect to see Krueger " interfering " with radical policies, or making controversial decisions (ala Cortese), but i think longer term we will see the benefit of his nous in the sporting world.

[The9]

Les - AGENTS AND PLAYERS WILL KEEP PRODDING YOU WITH DEMANDS AND TRANFER REQUESTS FOR BIG SIGN ON FEES WHILST THEY PROD SOFT FLESH. ONCE THEY PROD STEEL THEN THEY WILL STOP. CORTESE PROVIDED THE STEEL. .

 

Except that occasion when we sold the only player anyone would have been interested in at the time.

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Pretty sure reeds been here for Boruc, clyne, lovren, yeshiva, wanyama, Davis, Jrod etc at least.

Personally I think the notion of castigating him personally for failed transfers is as silly as praising him personally for successes.

Scouting is a collective process.

This is why as it shows the bull**** quoted by the OP and the majority of people posting on this forum - uninformed, unintelligent and unbalanced!

[SaintRobbie]

Except that occasion when we sold the only player anyone would have been interested in at the time.

 

Player.

 

Not players.

[kpturner]

Player.

 

Not players.

 

Whoosh

[OldNick]

This is why as it shows the bull**** quoted by the OP and the majority of people posting on this forum - uninformed, unintelligent and unbalanced!

All in your humble opinion of course, or are you the all knowing god on here? I suspect you have overdosed on your arrogance pills

[hasper57saint]

Les Reed has been here for almost four years.I didn't hear the whinging last season about we haven't signed so and so (except from Alps) so why is now that he's become an overnight failure? And don't dare suggest you could do a better job!