saint_ed Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 For me the only way the Clasie story can be true is if we are about to lose Morgan.
MarkSFC Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 For me the only way the Clasie story can be true is if we are about to lose Morgan. Or maybe Cork. Morgan, Clasie, JWP, Victor, Reed, Davis. Pretty awesome. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DuncanRG Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 I really dont know where people get their figures from. How on earth is he worht £35M?? Yeah, I really don't get why people think he's worth so much. He's a brilliant player but defensive mids don't command huge fees and even so he's not that good. It's pretty clear to see why Shaw is/was our most valuable player by some way - age, potential, length of contract, nationality and the growing attacking responsibilities of his position. Schneiderlin doesn't have half of that adding to his value. If we sell I expect he'll go for around £20m.
saint_ed Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Or maybe Cork. Morgan, Clasie, JWP, Victor, Reed, Davis. Pretty awesome. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2-7-1 I'm a firm believer in controlling the midfield.
Pastor Patrón Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Yeah, I really don't get why people think he's worth so much. He's a brilliant player but defensive mids don't command huge fees and even so he's not that good. It's pretty clear to see why Shaw is/was our most valuable player by some way - age, potential, length of contract, nationality and the growing attacking responsibilities of his position. Schneiderlin doesn't have half of that adding to his value. If we sell I expect he'll go for around £20m. Because he's not for sale, we don't need the money and he doesn't seem the type to kick up a fuss if we turned down a bid. 35mill is silly money and we should only accept silly mine for him, 20mill isnt
Smirking_Saint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Yeah, I really don't get why people think he's worth so much. He's a brilliant player but defensive mids don't command huge fees and even so he's not that good. It's pretty clear to see why Shaw is/was our most valuable player by some way - age, potential, length of contract, nationality and the growing attacking responsibilities of his position. Schneiderlin doesn't have half of that adding to his value. If we sell I expect he'll go for around £20m. Possibly, IMO he is better than both lallana and shaw (different positions i know) and surely falls under the home grown category for squad registration, this must add the premium aswell. Personally I think he is our best player, lallana wasnt worth 25m, lovrens not worth 20m and in the same vain Schneiderlin isnt worth north of 20m but this should be a sellers market
Turkish Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Yeah, I really don't get why people think he's worth so much. He's a brilliant player but defensive mids don't command huge fees and even so he's not that good. It's pretty clear to see why Shaw is/was our most valuable player by some way - age, potential, length of contract, nationality and the growing attacking responsibilities of his position. Schneiderlin doesn't have half of that adding to his value. If we sell I expect he'll go for around £20m. He's an excellent player but Khaderia who plays in a simliar positon, plays for Real Madrid and has a world cup winners medal was being touted around at just below £20m.
Verbal Kint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He's an excellent player but Khaderia who plays in a simliar positon, plays for Real Madrid and has a world cup winners medal was being touted around at just below £20m. Khedira only has 12 months left on his contract
Turkish Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Khedira only has 12 months left on his contract when he moved from Stuttgart to Madrid 4 years ago (yes i know it was 4 years ago) he was still a German international and "only" cost 14m Euros.
sotonist Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 when he moved from Stuttgart to Madrid 4 years ago (yes i know it was 4 years ago) he was still a German international and "only" cost 14m Euros. he had 12 months left on his contract then as well.
Dig Dig Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 he had 12 months left on his contract then as well.
Turkish Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 he had 12 months left on his contract then as well. okay, Schinderlin is worth £35m and not a penny less. Ings is being quoted at £8m he has a year left on his contract so he must be worth £15m if he had longer.
Verbal Kint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 when he moved from Stuttgart to Madrid 4 years ago (yes i know it was 4 years ago) he was still a German international and "only" cost 14m Euros. And he was worth a lot more than that. Morgan is still pretty young, has 3 years left on his contract and is now a French international. We should hold out for big big money for him, just like we did with Shaw. I'd be disappointed with less than 25m, but I doubt he'll go for that much
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Yeah, I really don't get why people think he's worth so much. He's a brilliant player but defensive mids don't command huge fees and even so he's not that good. It's pretty clear to see why Shaw is/was our most valuable player by some way - age, potential, length of contract, nationality and the growing attacking responsibilities of his position. Schneiderlin doesn't have half of that adding to his value. If we sell I expect he'll go for around £20m. Schneiderlin is a player of sufficient quality that he could walk into pretty well any PL team and not look out of place. During the past couple of years, he has achieved some of the best stats in Europe for his passing, interceptions, tackling, etc. He is arguably the best player in our team in terms of what makes us tick and we are always the poorer for his absence. It isn't clear as you claim why Shaw was our most valuable player by some distance. Yes, he is young, English and a very competent defender who would almost certainly get better and be one of the best in England over the next decade. But a LB is not as vital to a team as a really good commanding midfielder whose distribution can create goal scoring chances in an instant. Players like Schneiderlin are pretty rare, so his value is justified if there are several top suitors vying for his signature and we want to keep him. Schneiderlin is the sort of player that could advance the potential of clubs like Arsenal and Spurs, so his fee could be justified. But from our point of view, as we would rather keep him, the price has to be set at a heavily inflated level that could scare off bidders and has little to do at all with some notional historical value that DMs usually go for.
buctootim Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Stupid argument - price depends on what else is available on the market. Any club looking to buy a DM is going to buy Khadera for £20m instead of Morgan for £35m. Its the selling club who carre about how long is left on a contract, the buyer only cares about the price. If we were looking to sell Morgan we might have to take less than £20m, which is part the reason we want to keep him.
Polaroid Saint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He Does Things That Only A Spider Can. Hence the potentially steep price tag. In all seriousness, Morgan is MY favourite Saint and has been since the Championship when he just grew massively as a more defensive player but retained a progressive attacking mindset. (I credit Adkins for this, but MS is clearly a 'student of the game' anyway). I get a wee bit too excited with every interception and clever hold off. Worse still, when he makes a ten yard dash forward from the centre circle only to calmly jog back again, I can't help but shout out at anyone who will listen how he has brilliantly created space for the attacking quartet by 'bouncing' the oppositions DM out of position. I am aware this is not normal behaviour.
ladysaint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He Does Things That Only A Spider Can. Hence the potentially steep price tag. In all seriousness, Morgan is MY favourite Saint and has been since the Championship when he just grew massively as a more defensive player but retained a progressive attacking mindset. (I credit Adkins for this, but MS is clearly a 'student of the game' anyway). I get a wee bit too excited with every interception and clever hold off. Worse still, when he makes a ten yard dash forward from the centre circle only to calmly jog back again, I can't help but shout out at anyone who will listen how he has brilliantly created space for the attacking quartet by 'bouncing' the oppositions DM out of position. I am aware this is not normal behaviour. I have the same problem when it comes to Morgan. He is definitely in my top 3 Saints players ever and will be devasted if he leaves. I think the lad has a bright future and have always said that one day he will captain his country.
sotonist Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Stupid argument - price depends on what else is available on the market. Any club looking to buy a DM is going to buy Khadera for £20m instead of Morgan for £35m. Its the selling club who carre about how long is left on a contract, the buyer only cares about the price. If we were looking to sell Morgan we might have to take less than £20m, which is part the reason we want to keep him. Any club looking to buy a DM is going to buy Khedira, except they can't afford his wages. Now any club looking to buy a DM is going to buy Schneiderlin, except they can't afford the fee.
DuncanRG Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 It isn't clear as you claim why Shaw was our most valuable player by some distance. Yes, he is young, English and a very competent defender who would almost certainly get better and be one of the best in England over the next decade. But a LB is not as vital to a team as a really good commanding midfielder whose distribution can create goal scoring chances in an instant. Players like Schneiderlin are pretty rare, so his value is justified if there are several top suitors vying for his signature and we want to keep him. Schneiderlin is the sort of player that could advance the potential of clubs like Arsenal and Spurs, so his fee could be justified. I think you're overdoing it there. Morgan can't create goal scoring chances in an instant, he's not Pirlo. Full backs are becoming more and more important to Premier League teams and in Shaw you've got someone who's *already* one of the best left backs in England, aged 19. He has got a good chance of being the best in the world during his career as an attacker and defender. Good as he is, I don't think Schneiderlin will ever reach those heights.
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Stupid argument - price depends on what else is available on the market. Any club looking to buy a DM is going to buy Khadera for £20m instead of Morgan for £35m. Its the selling club who carre about how long is left on a contract, the buyer only cares about the price. If we were looking to sell Morgan we might have to take less than £20m, which is part the reason we want to keep him. It really isn't as simple as you infer. Current rumours have it that Arsenal are now looking at William Carvalho for £24 million. Although there is apparently a buy out clause in his contract for £35 million. Arsenal target Khedira looks likely to go to Monaco, because he might be used as a makeweight in a deal for James Rodrigues who might cost £75 million. Schneiderlin is seen as the cheap option by Arsenal, a figure of £16 million being bandied about as his value. But then a player's value isn't what some club thinks it should be, it is what the buyer is prepared to pay and the seller is prepared to accept. In the case of Scheiderlin, I'm sure that we would be entirely content to keep him, unless we are offered an eye-wateringly high premium price for him. Let Spurs and Arsenal and others try and buy Khedira instead for lower money. There is only one of him, so two or three clubs can't have him. In the same way, Liverpool could have had Kroos for less than they paid for Lallana. We did fine there to get Tadic and have lots of change in our pockets, but I don't see many names in the frame as decent replacements for Schneiderlin for much less money.
angelman Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Why would MS's value be any less than that of AL? His defensive record over the past two seasons to me is the equal (if not more) to the goals/assists of AL.
saint_ed Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Why would MS's value be any less than that of AL? His defensive record over the past two seasons to me is the equal (if not more) to the goals/assists of AL. Because goals and assists are a far more tangible commodity in a game of football. Yes Morgan is one of the best at interceptions etc but its almost impossible to directly link that to clean sheets for example.
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 I think you're overdoing it there. Morgan can't create goal scoring chances in an instant, he's not Pirlo. Full backs are becoming more and more important to Premier League teams and in Shaw you've got someone who's *already* one of the best left backs in England, aged 19. He has got a good chance of being the best in the world during his career as an attacker and defender. Good as he is, I don't think Schneiderlin will ever reach those heights. Schneiderlin has another 11 years to become another Pirlo. How good was Pirlo at 24? Many times last season I've seen him make killer passes that have put a player through on goal, perhaps you missed them. You champion Shaw to become one of the best LBs in the World over the next decade and I'll champion Schneiderlin to become one of the best DMs in the World over the same period. OK? Schneiderlin has already produced some of the best stats in Europe for his playing position. You don't think that he will reach the heights that Shaw will, I do. We'll just have to wait a few years to see who's right.
angelman Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Because goals and assists are a far more tangible commodity in a game of football. Yes Morgan is one of the best at interceptions etc but its almost impossible to directly link that to clean sheets for example. Yes of course, but I think that that is probably in the eyes of fans, not managers.
Saint Garrett Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He is an incredible footballer. When he doesn't play we miss him massively. He could play for any team in the world and wouldn't struggle at all. Should sell at our terms (£25m+) or not at all.
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 I thought he was me? Am I not you? No-ones told me. I can confirm that I used to CB Fry though.
LostBoys Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 No bids according to Koeman and i hope it stays that way
Wiggles31 Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He is an incredible footballer. When he doesn't play we miss him massively. He could play for any team in the world and wouldn't struggle at all. Should sell at our terms (£25m+) or not at all. Agreed. He is the best CM we've had in years and one of the best in the league undoubtedly. Despite having very decent cover in the middle it would be a huge blow to lose Morgan and his value is only going to increase as he plays for France. Label a £30m price tag on him and that should fend off the vultures.... Unless Madrid are interested!
Lord Duckhunter Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He could play for any team in the world and wouldn't struggle at all. Should sell at our terms (£25m+) or not at all. Take off your red and white glasses. He's a good player, but he wouldn't get in the Barca or Madrid sides, he cant get in the French side . I doubt very much whether anyone would pay £25 mil for him, which they would do if he was a CM who could play for any team in the world.
SimplyRed&White Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 No bids according to Koeman and i hope it stays that wayThey said that about Shaw & Lallana but it turned out to be a lie.
Smirking_Saint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 If we arent looking to sell then the price is what we want. Using Kroos and Khedira as examples is just daft, transfer fees in the whole arent comparable. Is Morgan worth more then 20m ? No, but we arent looking to sell so he is worth whatever price a. We attach and b. The buyer is willing to pay
Turkish Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 If we arent looking to sell then the price is what we want. Using Kroos and Khedira as examples is just daft, transfer fees in the whole arent comparable. Is Morgan worth more then 20m ? No, but we arent looking to sell so he is worth whatever price a. We attach and b. The buyer is willing to pay Comparing him with khedira is far less daft than saying if Lallana is worth £25m then Morgan is worth £35m
buctootim Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Or maybe Cork. Morgan, Clasie, JWP, Victor, Reed, Davis. Pretty awesome Only awesome if you want lots of 0-0 matches.
MarkSFC Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Only awesome if you want lots of 0-0 matches. You don't play them all. Fool. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wes Tender Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Take off your red and white glasses. He's a good player, but he wouldn't get in the Barca or Madrid sides, he cant get in the French side . I doubt very much whether anyone would pay £25 mil for him, which they would do if he was a CM who could play for any team in the world. I agree that maybe Barca or Real Madrid might have better at the moment, but he could certainly play for any team in the PL and not look out of place, which is where I pitched him. He did get into the French side at the World CUp, didn't he? Perhaps you missed it. And he was arguably their best player in that match. It isn't his fault that Didier Deschamps is a bit of an idiot with his own favourites. I'm not bothered if we set the price at £25 million and teams thought him not to be worth it. In fact I'd be delighted.
Dig Dig Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Comparing fee's with any player is stupid. You can find one example but then others which completely contradict that view. Ross McCormack went for 11M FFS so no fee should be a surprise.
Saint Garrett Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Take off your red and white glasses. He's a good player, but he wouldn't get in the Barca or Madrid sides, he cant get in the French side . I doubt very much whether anyone would pay £25 mil for him, which they would do if he was a CM who could play for any team in the world. I genuinely don't think he'd struggle in the Barca/Real team. Is he "world class" no, but all I said is that he wouldn't look out of place.
DuncanRG Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He'd struggle against a Barca/Real team, which is how you should really judge a player if you want to talk about them playing at the top level.
Dig Dig Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He'd struggle against a Barca/Real team, which is how you should really judge a player if you want to talk about them playing at the top level. Well Wanyama was awesome against Barca and isn't as good as Morgan.
Window Cleaner Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 They said that about Shaw & Lallana but it turned out to be a lie. Really ? He stated in his interview the other day that Reed told him Lallana,Lambert and Shaw were going at their first meeting. Put a date on that and you'll know how far the bullsh*t dates back.
Saint Charlie Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Well Wanyama was awesome against Barca and isn't as good as Morgan. Jake Thomson once bossed Real Madrid in a youth tournament and now plays for AFC Porchester.
Smirking_Saint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Comparing him with khedira is far less daft than saying if Lallana is worth £25m then Morgan is worth £35m Its still pretty daft. David luiz 50m/lovren 9m or 20m Kroos 20m/ lallana 35m Is just daft, you simply cannot compare transfer values
Smirking_Saint Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 He'd struggle against a Barca/Real team, which is how you should really judge a player if you want to talk about them playing at the top level. This arguement is pointless as there is just no way of knowing that. He looked ok vs utd in lg 1 for instance.
Window Cleaner Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Its still pretty daft. David luiz 50m/lovren 9m or 20m Kroos 20m/ lallana 35m Is just daft, you simply cannot compare transfer values Because they often depend on release clauses. David Luis cost PSG 48.7 million euros, not 50 million £ I suspect Morgan has a release clause, couldn't stab at the amount though. It's very common with extra-UK players.
Tommy Mulgrew Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 I'm worried by the mention, in today's press article about Ron Vlaar, that RK is prepared to offer RV the Saints captaincy. Surely that should go to Morgan.
Whitey Grandad Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 I'm worried by the mention, in today's press article about Ron Vlaar, that RK is prepared to offer RV the Saints captaincy. Surely that should go to Morgan. Not if he's talking of leaving.
Deano6 Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Because they often depend on release clauses. David Luis cost PSG 48.7 million euros, not 50 million £ I suspect Morgan has a release clause, couldn't stab at the amount though. It's very common with extra-UK players. We need to get hold of some extra-UK players. The normal-English lot are all off at the first sniff of interest!
cellone Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Extra U.K. Players come from the bits round the edge of England.
Badger Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Extra U.K. Players come from the bits round the edge of England. If they are all as good as that bloke from the Channel Islands in the 90's for us, we should try getting one or two more.
cellone Posted 23 July, 2014 Posted 23 July, 2014 Think of the untapped potential on the Isle of Man and Orkney.
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