um pahars Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Sagna, Vermalan??, Van Persie, Song, Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy, Adebayor, Toure. 9 players that arsenal have lost over 3 years, to "bigger" clubs such as United, Barcelona & Man City. Before that they lost big names such as Henry & Cole. The natural pecking order is well established. I think the manner of our success was a killer for us, with the big clubs wanting ready made players and not willing to take a punt on our players as they were plying their trade in Divisions 2 & 3. But when they performed in the top flight, then it was cheque books at the ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Sagna, Vermalan??, Van Persie, Song, Fabregas, Nasri, Clichy, Adebayor, Toure. 9 players that arsenal have lost over 3 years, to "bigger" clubs such as United, Barcelona & Man City. Before that they lost big names such as Henry & Cole. The natural pecking order is well established. I think the manner of our success was a killer for us, with the big clubs wanting ready made players and not willing to take a punt on our players as they were plying their trade in Divisions 2 & 3. But when they performed in the top flight, then it was cheque books at the ready. Not in one close season transfer window though, that's the big difference. That's what I'm struggling to understand. Lots of circumstances coming together or something else that we're not privy to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Not in one close season transfer window though, that's the big difference. That's what I'm struggling to understand. Lots of circumstances coming together or something else that we're not privy to? Its not complicated, we had a number of players good enough for the clubs that came above us in the table last season and the players want the larger wages on offer and better chance of Champions League football. Saints don't want unhappy players at the club and have negotiated some large transfer fees for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 I like your theory best of all. It's not really much of a theory, I just think the board have been quite receptive to selling our most valuable players and quite like the cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 It's not really much of a theory, I just think the board have been quite receptive to selling our most valuable players and quite like the cash. I agree with the first bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 I agree with the first bit. Progress Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Its not complicated, we had a number of players good enough for the clubs that came above us in the table last season and the players want the larger wages on offer and better chance of Champions League football. Saints don't want unhappy players at the club and have negotiated some large transfer fees for them. Well I'm glad you've cleared that up. We can close half a dozen threads now. So these players that are leaving...they weren't good players leading up to the January transfer window or last year or the year prior? Just the last 4 months they've become sought after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Well I'm glad you've cleared that up. We can close half a dozen threads now. So these players that are leaving...they weren't good players leading up to the January transfer window or last year or the year prior? Just the last 4 months they've become sought after? I think our playing style under poch, how well we played against some of the big sides and the international recognition have all built up to the situation this summer. I do believe that the clubs have had a nod from Saints to know that the players are there for the right fee. Liverpool would never have actually planned to raid 3 players from Saints without knowing that it would and could be done fairly easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 No. They proved they were consistently good enough over last season, and deals are never likely in January, so clubs have been monitoring them and planning summer bids. Im not going to deny it's a depressing situation to anyone but it's not a complicated one. dont some people call David Marshall a one season wonder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 No. They proved they were consistently good enough over last season, and deals are never likely in January, so clubs have been monitoring them and planning summer bids. Im not going to deny it's a depressing situation to anyone but it's not a complicated one. If it's as simple and uncomplicated as that then so be it. Unprecedented though or is there another example of when a Premiership team lost 5 (I appreciate it's not 5 as yet but quite likely to be) key 1st team players in one transfer window? Other than of course a relegated team dumping their players for purely financial reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Not in one close season transfer window though, that's the big difference. That's what I'm struggling to understand. Lots of circumstances coming together or something else that we're not privy to? Pretty sure they lost Fabregas, Nasri & Clichy in one summer, which must have been a big hit. Don't think there is anything behind the scenes driving players away, instead they are simply being enticed by bigger clubs for bigger paycheques and bigger occasions. Sadly, all of our talent appeared in the shop window at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Well I'm glad you've cleared that up. We can close half a dozen threads now. So these players that are leaving...they weren't good players leading up to the January transfer window or last year or the year prior? Just the last 4 months they've become sought after? Two years ago, Schneirderlin, Lambert & Lallana had probably played two seasons in the Championship. Some "mid ranking" teams had sniffed around, but they weren't on the big boys radar. Shaw wasn't established in the first team and Lovren was halfway through a stop start stint at Lyon. I wasn't sure how Lallana & Lambert would handle the step up to the Premier League, but thought Morgan would do OK. Shaw had potential and hadn't even heard of Lovren. As it turns out all 5 were outstanding in our second season up and performances against the "bigger" clubs enhanced their reputations. International recognition finally sealed their fate and the big boys came hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 Two years ago, Schneirderlin, Lambert & Lallana had probably played two seasons in the Championship. Some "mid ranking" teams had sniffed around, but they weren't on the big boys radar. Shaw wasn't established in the first team and Lovren was halfway through a stop start stint at Lyon. I wasn't sure how Lallana & Lambert would handle the step up to the Premier League, but thought Morgan would do OK. Shaw had potential and hadn't even heard of Lovren. As it turns out all 5 were outstanding in our second season up and performances against the "bigger" clubs enhanced their reputations. International recognition finally sealed their fate and the big boys came hunting. And our board bent over, lubed up and let out barely a wimper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And our board bent over, lubed up and let out barely a wimper perhaps they're quite into that however they could have shown a bit more resolution concerning transfers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And our board bent over, lubed up and let out barely a wimper You really are a *****, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 You really are a *****, Put me on ignore then DPS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Block34 Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 perhaps they're quite into that however they could have shown a bit more resolution concerning transfers. Just like 'our boys' could have said "No!" But perhaps they lub'd up as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And our board bent over, lubed up and let out barely a wimper Lambert aside, which I thought was a crap deal and we appeared too "nice", I wouldn't say Shaw for close to £30million and £20million for the "strike threatening, wantaway, eyes on Liverpool halfway through the season whilst still our Captain" Lallana, was barely a whimper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 July, 2014 Share Posted 21 July, 2014 And our board bent over, lubed up and let out barely a wimper Put me on ignore then DPS He's right though. You've turned into a petulant pussy last month or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 There really is so much crap out there about Schneiderlin. Here is a classic example of some femail blogger getting it badly wrong http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/07/21/jl-which-is-the-better-arsenal-target-schneiderlin-or-carvalho/ France international Schneiderlin is two years Carvalho’s senior and already has a season in the Premier League under his belt with the Saints for whom he only signed last summer. Schneiderlin impressed in his debut season at St Mary’s last term, making 33 appearances in the Premier League whilst Carvalho was thrust into the spotlight in Portugal making 29 appearances in the Primeira Liga. I'm sorry dear, but Schneiderlin and Saints have completed 2 full seasons in the Premier League and Schneiderlin has been with Saints for 6 years. If people are going to write blog articles for national consumption, then the least they can do is ensure that they get such basic facts right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 There really is so much crap out there about Schneiderlin. Here is a classic example of some femail blogger getting it badly wrong http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2014/07/21/jl-which-is-the-better-arsenal-target-schneiderlin-or-carvalho/ I'm sorry dear, but Schneiderlin and Saints have completed 2 full seasons in the Premier League and Schneiderlin has been with Saints for 6 years. If people are going to write blog articles for national consumption, then the least they can do is ensure that they get such basic facts right. That what ever you want to call it is terrible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 He's right though. You've turned into a petulant pussy last month or so. Im not being petulant just because I believe (and has been alluded to) that there is an issue in camp. My opinion isnt completely polarised is it ? I have always been very optimistic in the main on this board, and tried always to stay unbiased. I have contact with people at staplewood so always had a slight inside track. Its my personal opinion that although we were resigned to losing players we could have managed things better then we have. Is that petulant ? You should try calmy attempting to post how you percieve the situation to be only to be shot down ad infinitum with nothing more then 'its all money, its obvious' as proof ?! Ive not been banging on over and over, just said I dont think things are happy in camp. If that makes me petulant then oh well. FWIW Ive said I think KL has best interest at heart, we just were a mess for a few months and have niavely handled this situation. I think other posters should look at how they respond to those they disagree with to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Im not being petulant just because I believe (and has been alluded to) that there is an issue in camp. My opinion isnt completely polarised is it ? I have always been very optimistic in the main on this board, and tried always to stay unbiased. I have contact with people at staplewood so always had a slight inside track. Its my personal opinion that although we were resigned to losing players we could have managed things better then we have. Is that petulant ? You should try calmy attempting to post how you percieve the situation to be only to be shot down ad infinitum with nothing more then 'its all money, its obvious' as proof ?! Ive not been banging on over and over, just said I dont think things are happy in camp. If that makes me petulant then oh well. FWIW Ive said I think KL has best interest at heart, we just were a mess for a few months and have niavely handled this situation. I think other posters should look at how they respond to those they disagree with to be honest. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Lambert aside, which I thought was a crap deal and we appeared too "nice", I wouldn't say Shaw for close to £30million and £20million for the "strike threatening, wantaway, eyes on Liverpool halfway through the season whilst still our Captain" Lallana, was barely a whimper. I think that the fees were generally good, but Im hearing hungry eyes are on Lovren, chambers, schmeiderlin and even cork now There comes a point when you need to be strong and say enough is enough. I was resigned to Shaw and Lallana leaving but its getting rediculous now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 I think our playing style under poch, how well we played against some of the big sides and the international recognition have all built up to the situation this summer. I do believe that the clubs have had a nod from Saints to know that the players are there for the right fee. Liverpool would never have actually planned to raid 3 players from Saints without knowing that it would and could be done fairly easily. Fairly easily? Two parts to a player leaving, one the club wants to sell them and two, the player wants to leave. In the case of Liverpool, we were unfortunate that because we had several players good enough to be selected for the World Cup, there was an opportunity for Liverpool's captain to tap them up. I don't believe for one second that the club indicated that any of those players were available to buy. Thus when Gerrard did his bit, Lambert, Lallana and Shaw appeared on their radar as being amenable to the proposition that they could go to clubs like Liverpool and earn mega-wonga. Once Liverpool started to make it known to their media buddies that our star players wanted to leave, then the media circus began to operate, agents suggested that other top clubs were also interested and as a result Shaw went to Man Utd for a World record fee for a full back and Lallana also departed for a vastly inflated fee for somebody of his talent. Liverpool making an offer deemed to be derisory to us, coming back with a higher offer, us refusing again, them making an ultimatum to take it or leave it, doesn't exactly fit in with your analogy that it could be done fairly easily. And neither is the Lovren situation going fairly easily for them either. They might be making slow progress, but at a very high price financially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 I do believe that the clubs have had a nod from Saints to know that the players are there for the right fee. Liverpool would never have actually planned to raid 3 players from Saints without knowing that it would and could be done fairly easily. They certainly gave the nod for Lambert. Lots of talk about his 'dream move' but our board were obviously keen to sell in the first place. http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/jun/01/football-news-in-brief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 I think that the fees were generally good, but Im hearing hungry eyes are on Lovren, chambers, schmeiderlin and even cork now There comes a point when you need to be strong and say enough is enough. I was resigned to Shaw and Lallana leaving but its getting rediculous now. Agree again and I think that's a realistic reaction. We won't recover from the loss of Morgan and lovren this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Agree again and I think that's a realistic reaction. We won't recover from the loss of Morgan and lovren this season. Although immensely disappointing we could handle losing Schneiderlin IMO. Our CM is packed with options and I genuinely believe that Harrison Reed is going to be a star! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Morgan is class but a mdlidfield of Wanyama,Cork/Davis and JWP is easily top 10. Then you have Reed pushing for a place and Ramirez and Radix who could play centrally. I would be gutted to see Morgan leave, especially if Lovren is also off, but it really ought not to be a big problem. Centre back and left back are the areas that need attention. Even if Morgan left, I would have wing/forward as a greater priority than a replacement CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Morgan is class but a mdlidfield of Wanyama,Cork/Davis and JWP is easily top 10. Then you have Reed pushing for a place and Ramirez and Radix who could play centrally. I would be gutted to see Morgan leave, especially if Lovren is also off, but it really ought not to be a big problem. Centre back and left back are the areas that need attention. Even if Morgan left, I would have wing/forward as a greater priority than a replacement CM. Completely agree. My biggest concern regarding Morgan is who he ends up with. I can understand someone like Arsenal but I will not be able to stomach seeing him playing for Spuds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Although immensely disappointing we could handle losing Schneiderlin IMO. Our CM is packed with options and I genuinely believe that Harrison Reed is going to be a star! I think that we are stocked to cover it but I still think that he is our best player and losing him will be the biggest blow. None of the others are a patch on him imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 I was saying that we don't have a specific obligation to sell players under contract to saints. Several people on here reckon that we simply have to sell and that there is nothing we can do, we're just part of an unlucky set of circumstances which is ****** in my view. The other view is that it's all Cortese's fault after leaving the new board with such a difficult situation to inherit. Clearly nonesense as we were in a great spot, on and off the pitch. Incorrect. On the pitch yes but off the pitch Cortese spent too much on cr*p players with huge wages, too much on training ground of that stature, ludicrous expenses that would make politicians seem like angels and our commercial revenue was very poor for a club of our size. We were his play toy and it wasn't his money, great at appointing managers but I'm sure it wasn't all his say if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Well I'm glad you've cleared that up. We can close half a dozen threads now. So these players that are leaving...they weren't good players leading up to the January transfer window or last year or the year prior? Just the last 4 months they've become sought after? 2 years prem experience, second year much improved, especially Lallana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint IQ Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Agree again and I think that's a realistic reaction. We won't recover from the loss of Morgan and lovren this season. I think Lallana and Lovren will be our biggest losses even though Morgan is the best of the lot, as mentioned many times our squad is packed with CM/DMs. Lovrens commanding decisive yet composed defending and lallana's creativity is going to be very hard to replace. Hope Tadic and Ramirez can step up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 I think that we are stocked to cover it but I still think that he is our best player and losing him will be the biggest blow. None of the others are a patch on him imo Agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Lovren is far easier to replace than Schneiderlin, especially for the money that we are likely to get for him. Schneiderlin is an exceptional player, much more in the rarified air. So we really ought to either say categorically that he isn't for sale, or set the price at a level that would make most rival managers' eyes water. Talk of Arsenal reckoning that he could be bought for 16 million is ridiculous. Tell Wenger £30 million and he's yours. Tell Pochettino to bugger off, we won't sell him to Spurs for any amount of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Lovren is far easier to replace than Schneiderlin, especially for the money that we are likely to get for him. Schneiderlin is an exceptional player, much more in the rarified air. So we really ought to either say categorically that he isn't for sale, or set the price at a level that would make most rival managers' eyes water. Talk of Arsenal reckoning that he could be bought for 16 million is ridiculous. Tell Wenger £30 million and he's yours. Tell Pochettino to bugger off, we won't sell him to Spurs for any amount of money. Meanwhile, in the land that isn't Wes' fantasy, if he leaves he will go for about 20 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Meanwhile, in the land that isn't Wes' fantasy, if he leaves he will go for about 20 million. What's the matter? A bit miffed that I don't agree with your opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 I think that we are stocked to cover it but I still think that he is our best player and losing him will be the biggest blow. None of the others are a patch on him imo I also agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 What's the matter? A bit miffed that I don't agree with your opinion? No, just think it's bizarre you think we will be pricing Morgan at 30 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 No, just think it's bizarre you think we will be pricing Morgan at 30 million. Not enough goals for that price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pangy Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Not enough goals for that price. You don't really expect your DM's to score that many,of all the players we have sold/possibly selling Morgan is the only one that is worth £30m......but yet he looks like going for the least Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasonb Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Put me on ignore then DPS Unbelievable Jeff is Dibden Purlieu Saint??! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 22 July, 2014 Share Posted 22 July, 2014 Unbelievable Jeff is Dibden Purlieu Saint??! You didnt know ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 You didnt know ? I thought he was me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 I thought he was me? Nah, I'm you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 Koeman on Schneiderlin: "He is not on his way out. He is still on holiday and will come back this weekend. There are only rumours about him. There are no bids for him and that is the situation." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceandfriendly Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 That quote is just confirmation that when we receive an acceptable bid he'll be off. And I agree he's by far our best player yet looks to go for the least amount. If Lallana and Shaw are worth 25 and 30 mil then Morgan is worth at least 35. He's much more valuable than those two. Better player too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webby Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 That quote is just confirmation that when we receive an acceptable bid he'll be off. And I agree he's by far our best player yet looks to go for the least amount. If Lallana and Shaw are worth 25 and 30 mil then Morgan is worth at least 35. He's much more valuable than those two. Better player too. Yep. I cannot believe that Van Gaal hasnt been sniffing around him. He'd walk into Man u's midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 23 July, 2014 Share Posted 23 July, 2014 That quote is just confirmation that when we receive an acceptable bid he'll be off. And I agree he's by far our best player yet looks to go for the least amount. If Lallana and Shaw are worth 25 and 30 mil then Morgan is worth at least 35. He's much more valuable than those two. Better player too. I really dont know where people get their figures from. How on earth is he worht £35M?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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