Schneiderlin Transfer Rumours

[angelman]

Can someone tell me what the club's ambitions have been lowered from and what they now are?

[Saint_Abroad]

I'm sick to death of people saying the players are leaving for money. Why did he stay so long? I guess to you it's coincidence that he's leaving now that the club's ambitions have been lowered.

 

Still, blame the players being money grabbing and ignore the quotes from the likes of lovren talking about the club's lack of ambition if it makes you feel better.

 

So when Lallana said his dream move was Liverpool and he wanted to be there during this past season, he instinctively knew the Saints were lowering their ambitions? Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"?

[Saint Charlie]

Can someone tell me what the club's ambitions have been lowered from and what they now are?

 

Aiming for CL football to not really aiming for it.

 

Realism. Which doesn't thrill CL quality players unsuprisingly.

[sadoldgit]

Aiming for CL football? Really? Maybe now we have some realsistic ambitions like winning a domestic cup (something Cortese wasnt interested in but the fans are) and qualifying for Europe. Pochettino was never interested in that so it is ironic that is what he will be doing next season.

 

Realism, so where does that that sit? Realistic players will know a club like SFC are not going to break into the top 4 without changing their wage structure massively (and the transfer budget of course).

 

Another dig at the people running the club.

 

If they werent ambitious for the club we would have Steve Bruce instead of Ronald Koeman. As I keep saying to you, why dont you give them a chance and wait and see what happens and stop all this negative snipping? You hae absolutely NO idea what is going to happen. If it all goes pear shaped then you can give yourself a big slap on the back and tell us all you told us so!

[Bearsy]

Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"?

 

Well quite, the lowering of ambition if anything was lowering the ambition of spending more than we can afford, to spending what we can afford. I ain't got a problem with that tbh.

[doddisalegend]

Can someone tell me what the club's ambitions have been lowered from and what they now are?

 

Well I'm pretty sure Mopo said that Europa league held no interest for him but now he is gone the club said they were aiming for Europe so it looks like our ambitions have actually gone up......to getting into the Europa league

Edited 10 July, 2014 by doddisalegend

[Sour Mash]

Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints?

[SaintSteve]

I'm sick to death of people saying the players are leaving for money. Why did he stay so long? I guess to you it's coincidence that he's leaving now that the club's ambitions have been lowered.

 

Still, blame the players being money grabbing and ignore the quotes from the likes of lovren talking about the club's lack of ambition if it makes you feel better.

 

The reality is probably somewhere in-between... the players were happy working under a Cortese/MP regime where the objective was clearly CL football.

WE don't know why Cortese left but assuming it was related to funding required to achieve that dream; then the players will perceive a lack of ambition (hence Lovren/Schneiderlin comments) when he left. The money is a given when CL teams come in so its a win/win for the players.

Unfortunately, this was inevitable once Kruger stressed the self-sustaining model going forwards.. for sure, Liverpool did not follow that

between 2009-13.

[sadoldgit]

Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints?

 

How well does Lovren speak English? Maybe something got lost in translation?

[sadoldgit]

The reality is probably somewhere in-between... the players were happy working under a Cortese/MP regime where the objective was clearly CL football.

WE don't know why Cortese left but assuming it was related to funding required to achieve that dream; then the players will perceive a lack of ambition (hence Lovren/Schneiderlin comments) when he left. The money is a given when CL teams come in so its a win/win for the players.

Unfortunately, this was inevitable once Kruger stressed the self-sustaining model going forwards.. for sure, Liverpool did not follow that

between 2009-13.

 

If the traget was CL football what was the timeframe? That wasnt part of the much heralded 5 year plan. And I thought Cortese had signed up to the self sustaining model? Or was that just up to the point where he realised the CL football was going to cost a great deal more money than SFC could realistically afford?

[Professor]

It takes quite an exceptional player to be irreplaceable and its hard to see that a player who isn't first choice for his country is exceptional. What matters is that the fee is high enough.

[View From The Top]

Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints?

 

It would appear that very many of our hugely gullible fans did believe it. Idiots.

[CB Fry]

I'm sick to death of people saying the players are leaving for money. Why did he stay so long? I guess to you it's coincidence that he's leaving now that the club's ambitions have been lowered.

 

Still, blame the players being money grabbing and ignore the quotes from the likes of lovren talking about the club's lack of ambition if it makes you feel better.

I think the person lying to himself to make them feel better is you son.

[alehouseboys]

So when Lallana said his dream move was Liverpool and he wanted to be there during this past season, he instinctively knew the Saints were lowering their ambitions? Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"?

 

I know it's not fashionable to defend Lallana right now but you may be closer to the truth than you realised? Before the FA Cup game up at Sunderland he was giving it the right big one to the TV nation about us really going for it, he seemed genuine, he knew we had a great opportunity. We all know what happened next and he was left looking a bit of a wopper. Was the seed sown that day?

[Toadhall Saint]

Does anyone honestly believe players were sticking around because they thought they were going to get Champions League football with Saints?

 

If your told things often enough then you can start to believe, after all Adolf Hitler convinced a whole nation that they were the master race and would rule the world. Got to be a lot easier with a few football players (especially some of the thicker ones).

[Wes Tender]

If your told things often enough then you can start to believe, after all Adolf Hitler convinced a whole nation that they were the master race and would rule the world. Got to be a lot easier with a few football players (especially some of the thicker ones).

 

Godwin's Law!

[CB Fry]

I know it's not fashionable to defend Lallana right now but you may be closer to the truth than you realised? Before the FA Cup game up at Sunderland he was giving it the right big one to the TV nation about us really going for it, he seemed genuine, he knew we had a great opportunity. We all know what happened next and he was left looking a bit of a wopper. Was the seed sown that day?

 

No. Liverpool wanted to buy him and he wanted to go. That's what "happened next".

[madruss]

Godwin's Law!

Yep, the argument and therefore the whole thread has now terminated!

[Verbal Kint]

I know it's not fashionable to defend Lallana right now but you may be closer to the truth than you realised? Before the FA Cup game up at Sunderland he was giving it the right big one to the TV nation about us really going for it, he seemed genuine, he knew we had a great opportunity. We all know what happened next and he was left looking a bit of a wopper. Was the seed sown that day?

 

Or, Lallana was suddenly in a position where he was being offered to double/treble his wages and decided to go on strike to get his fat new contract?

[pangy]

If Morgan is off what can we expect to actually receive for him,he is easily worth £25m plus in my opinion but what are notorious cheapskates like Arsenal and Spurs going to offer,I have a feeling we will let him go for peanuts £10-£15m

[S-Clarke]

If Morgan is off what can we expect to actually receive for him,he is easily worth £25m plus in my opinion but what are notorious cheapskates like Arsenal and Spurs going to offer,I have a feeling we will let him go for peanuts £10-£15m

 

£15m seems to be the going price for him, for some reason unbeknown to me.

[farawaysaint]

If Morgan is off what can we expect to actually receive for him,he is easily worth £25m plus in my opinion but what are notorious cheapskates like Arsenal and Spurs going to offer,I have a feeling we will let him go for peanuts £10-£15m

 

Arsenal reportedly were willing to offer 30mill for him + Dejan so they value him at about 10 million.

[pangy]

If he does go for 10-15m that would be a serious kick in the teeth for the fans,worth double that

[derry]

So when Lallana said his dream move was Liverpool and he wanted to be there during this past season, he instinctively knew the Saints were lowering their ambitions? Kat, Ralph and Les probably told Poch in the late fall "take your foot off the accelerator, let's quit this winning stuff"?

 

Total rubbish! Adam's father posed a hypothetical question to Weston Saint before the MU game. 'If you were offered double the money and CL football what would you do?' That summed it up nicely. The money was obviously the decider.

[pangy]

Who is Adams father ?

[derry]

Who is Adams father ?

 

David Lallana.

[derry]

Arsenal reportedly were willing to offer 30mill for him + Dejan so they value him at about 10 million.

 

It'll be another 'not a penny less than £25m!'

[pangy]

David Lallana.

 

 

Nice one. Did he post on here or was it a face to face convo

[derry]

Nice one. Did he post on here or was it a face to face convo

 

Face to face, we usually talk to him at home games or rather used to as he'll be following Adam at Liverpool.

[Super Carlton]

Who is Adams father ?

 

Steven Gerrard.

[buctootim]

How well does Lovren speak English? Maybe something got lost in translation?

 

They told him "We've got a 50% chance of Championship football next season" and then he signed. Easy mistake.

[Saint Rees]

Isn't the Koeman presser tomorrow? hopefully find out about the Morgan situation and a lot more from that

[rickylambert]

Sorry am I being really stupid, but has a bid actually been put out/accepted if not that why are people so worried?

[doddisalegend]

Who is Adams father ?

 

[Sour Mash]

No-one on here has a clue how much might or might not have been bid for Schneiderlin.

[KingdomCome]

Who is Adams father ?

Adam is the first human so technically he doesn't have a father.

[CB Fry]

No-one on here has a clue how much might or might not have been bid for Schneiderlin.

Please can I be the first to fabricate the fee were are demanding? - I'm going to say we have been told that we want not a penny less than forty million.

 

I can then get absolutely furious about the club not achieving said made up fee, and I can get all arsey pretending the club said they were definitely going to hold out for that fee so are a bunch of gutless liars.

 

I think that's how it works, right?

[St_Tel49]

But in Morgan's case I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to replace him with Reed. Not sure how that might work out.

If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do.

[Dig Dig]

Can't blame him if he wants to go to Spurs with the lure of Champions League football. NOTHING the club can do to stop him.

[Chez]

But in Morgan's case I wouldn't be surprised to see us try to replace him with Reed. Not sure how that might work out.

 

Badly. The idea that Shaw and Morgan can be replaced by target and reed next season is the quickest route to the championship. We are talking about two of the bets performing players in the league last season. We need to be bringing in some top notch replacements otherwise we will struggle IMO.

[Chez]

If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do.

 

Only idiots were concerned about the left back slot last summer as it was blindingly obvious that we had a gem in Shaw who played a comsiderable number of games the season before.

[austsaint]

If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do.

 

Yet Shaw is a rare, exceptional talent with the physical development to match his skill, which means we not only got away without an experienced LB but had a special player right from the off. Hard to see that happening with Targett, Gallagher, Reed and even JWP. Too much reliance on the kids could be a strategy to regret.

[Lorne Malvo]

Yep, you win nothing with kids.

[doddisalegend]

Youth is a major part of the club ethic now I think people need to get used to youth players stepping up to the 1st team. I'm pretty sure one of RKs major plus points for the club was his bring through of youth players at Feyenoord. If people are going to expect like for like replacements for every player that leaves they are going to disappointed IMO If the club thinks there is a viable replacement in the academy they will promote them to the 1st team over buying a replacement.

[Turkish]

If they do then it is because they think he can do it. A lot of people were getting upset last year when we lost out on Buttner and made no attempt to get anyone else. Shaw didn't turn out too bad! Perhaps we should trust the judgement of the staff - they know more about the players than we do.

 

Buttner was the summer before, our promotion season and at that time Shaw hadn't made a first team appearance, so quite rightly some people, me included were concerned that we were starting our first season back with a left back who wasn't good enough and another who was 17 and never played a first team game. I'm sure our knowitallers with the benefit of hindsight will sneer and how ridiculous this was and that Shaw was guaranteed to be brilliant, that anyone that says otherwise is a clown who doesn't know what they're on about and no doubt insert a few laughing emotioncons to emphasise the point. The fact is though that you just don't know how a kid will fit in to the first team, like Shaw they might slot in straight away, but there are countless other examples where that doesn't happen and they need a bit more time. It seems the club weren't overly confident either otherwise we wouldn't have been trying to sign Buttner is the first place.

[saint1977]

Yet Shaw is a rare, exceptional talent with the physical development to match his skill, which means we not only got away without an experienced LB but had a special player right from the off. Hard to see that happening with Targett, Gallagher, Reed and even JWP. Too much reliance on the kids could be a strategy to regret.

 

Absolutely this. CM is the position where we might get away with it but LB, CB, wide areas and strikers and GK all need strengthening this window to ensure we are competitive and not bottom at Xmas. I've been one of this site's most positive posters but sorry, that's the reality. We will need to replace all the positions lost bar perhaps Morgan and we may need more replacements is certain positions where we were already thin e.g. CB. Anything else is aiming for relegation. Shaw was a bit of a one-off, JWP is being eased into the team over 2-3 seasons and we'll probably need to do the same with Targett, McQueen. Don't know about Reed but his physical development is well behind Shaw's.

[CB Saint]

Absolutely this. CM is the position where we might get away with it but LB, CB, wide areas and strikers and GK all need strengthening this window to ensure we are competitive and not bottom at Xmas. I've been one of this site's most positive posters but sorry, that's the reality. We will need to replace all the positions lost bar perhaps Morgan and we may need more replacements is certain positions where we were already thin e.g. CB. Anything else is aiming for relegation. Shaw was a bit of a one-off, JWP is being eased into the team over 2-3 seasons and we'll probably need to do the same with Targett, McQueen. Don't know about Reed but his physical development is well behind Shaw's.

 

Not sure how much more he is going to grow tbh. He is most likely to sit in the pocket rocket category.

[saint1977]

Not sure how much more he is going to grow tbh. He is most likely to sit in the pocket rocket category.

 

Which is fine if we have Wanyama in there to balance it out. The best players always rise to the top, regardless of size etc so if Reed is as good as people say, it won't hold him back. Some of S-Clarke's comments about the club not being concerned about LB is a real concern though, expecting Targett to be Shaw MKII is a hell of an ask and even then, it doesn't leave us any cover at all if he's injured, Clyne at LB is OK for the odd game but not a 2 or 3 match stretch. I'm not going to join the bedwetters but share Sour Mash's moderate worries on the other thread about the pace of recruitment - we need to be seeing a couple of arrivals a week for the next 2-3 weeks if we are going to have a shot at doing anything other than finishing fourth from bottom.

[Wes Tender]

Absolutely this. CM is the position where we might get away with it but LB, CB, wide areas and strikers and GK all need strengthening this window to ensure we are competitive and not bottom at Xmas. I've been one of this site's most positive posters but sorry, that's the reality. We will need to replace all the positions lost bar perhaps Morgan and we may need more replacements is certain positions where we were already thin e.g. CB. Anything else is aiming for relegation. Shaw was a bit of a one-off, JWP is being eased into the team over 2-3 seasons and we'll probably need to do the same with Targett, McQueen. Don't know about Reed but his physical development is well behind Shaw's.

 

Perhaps it would be instructive for you to look back to the beginning of our first season back in the Premiership, when we played Manchester City, to gain some perspective.This was our team:-

 

K Davis, J Hooiveld, D Fox, J Fonte, N Clyne, J Ward-Prowse (S Davis, 65), J Puncheon (B Sharp, 86), A Lallana, M Schneiderlin, G Do Prado, J Rodriguez (R Lambert, 55)

Subs not used: P Gazzaniga, D Seaborne, L Shaw, F Richardson

 

And have Man City strengthened since then? Have a look at their team that day and I would say not.

 

Ward-Prowse had just been introduced into the first team and didn't look out of place then. When you consider that we player Kelvin, Hooiveld, Fox and Guly and look at our substitutions and subs bench, it is quite an eye-opener compared to what we have now, even without Lallana, Lambert and Shaw (who was only a sub then and pretty well an unknown quantity). Factor in also the subsequent two changes of manager since Adkins.

 

I am sure that we will strengthen in all those areas you suggest and have made a damned good start at it with Tadic for Lallana. But talk about relegation/bottom at Christmas if we don't strengthen in all of those areas is just nonsense.

[farawaysaint]

Perhaps it would be instructive for you to look back to the beginning of our first season back in the Premiership, when we played Manchester City, to gain some perspective.This was our team:-

 

K Davis, J Hooiveld, D Fox, J Fonte, N Clyne, J Ward-Prowse (S Davis, 65), J Puncheon (B Sharp, 86), A Lallana, M Schneiderlin, G Do Prado, J Rodriguez (R Lambert, 55)

Subs not used: P Gazzaniga, D Seaborne, L Shaw, F Richardson

 

And have Man City strengthened since then? Have a look at their team that day and I would say not.

 

Ward-Prowse had just been introduced into the first team and didn't look out of place then. When you consider that we player Kelvin, Hooiveld, Fox and Guly and look at our substitutions and subs bench, it is quite an eye-opener compared to what we have now, even without Lallana, Lambert and Shaw (who was only a sub then and pretty well an unknown quantity). Factor in also the subsequent two changes of manager since Adkins.

 

I am sure that we will strengthen in all those areas you suggest and have made a damned good start at it with Tadic for Lallana. But talk about relegation/bottom at Christmas if we don't strengthen in all of those areas is just nonsense.

 

Erm, weren't we bottom with that team?