Replace and improve

[EBS1980]

So lambert has gone for £4m and Shaw rumoured to be off for £30M.

 

That's a lot of money to replace them both with and use to buy others to improve the depth of the squad.

 

Question is who do u buy to replace and improve?

[S-Clarke]

I'd go out and get Rodriguez from Wolfsburg if I'm honest. No one we buy will be anywhere near as good as Shaw, but Rodriguez is a damn good player and would be a very capable replacement. I don't think he'd cost £30m either!!! so we can use the rest on other area's.

 

But please, no Lex Immars types...

[Dig Dig]

No players of calibre we are trying to replace will come to saints regardless of how much we have to spend.

[S-Clarke]

No players of calibre we are trying to replace will come to saints regardless of how much we have to spend.

 

This is obviously true, but we can make a better squad of it, hopefully. Something we have really lacked in the last year or 2.

 

I still look at teams such as Everton and co who lost their Rodwells, Fellani's, Rooneys etc and continued to kick on with shrewd signings such as Mirralias, Oveido, Mccarthy.

 

It's possible to build a better team on the back of the ''stars'' going, but it's one hell of a first test for Koeman.

[doddisalegend]

No players of calibre we are trying to replace will come to saints regardless of how much we have to spend.

 

You don't think we can replace Lambert with someone better?

[doddisalegend]

This is obviously true, but we can make a better squad of it, hopefully. Something we have really lacked in the last year or 2.

 

I still look at teams such as Everton and co who lost their Rodwells, Fellani's, Rooneys etc and continued to kick on with shrewd signings such as Mirralias, Oveido, Mccarthy.

 

It's possible to build a better team on the back of the ''stars'' going, but it's one hell of a first test for Koeman.

 

Exactly. If we get 30 million for Shaw that would have paid for Victor and Lovern last season and still left 10 million. We might not have (arguably) the best left back in the PL but three decent new recruits might be more valuable to the team in the long run.

[Frank's cousin]

No players of calibre we are trying to replace will come to saints regardless of how much we have to spend.

 

This is our problem and why we should be fighting tooth and nail to keep them... The amount means nothing if we can't replace with players at least as good... We go backwards - yet too many seem to accept this as inevitable... When in reality we hold long term contracts, just not prepared to demand our players honour them... Player and agent power has become unbareable combined with the 'I want it now ' generation and greed associated with the game.... Lallana at 26, you can sort of understand, Shaw at 18... We'll f*ck him... It's this impatience to run, when he has so much time that makes him no different to any of the other mercenary t wats ...

[SuperSAINT]

I still look at teams such as Everton and co who lost their Rodwells, Fellani's, Rooneys etc and continued to kick on with shrewd signings such as Mirralias, Oveido, Mccarthy.

 

Everton are certainly the example to try and emulate. (Villa being the polar opposite).

 

It's going to be interesting...

[S-Clarke]

Everton are certainly the example to try and emulate. (Villa being the polar opposite).

 

It's going to be interesting...

 

Little more confident that we'll go down the Everton route. Villa sold their English lads (Young, Milner, Barry) for lots of money, but didn't reinvest it what so ever (I don't class signing Ashley Westwood and Joe Bennett as reinvesting!). I'm pretty sure we'll be reinvesting it.

[Badger]

No players of calibre we are trying to replace will come to saints regardless of how much we have to spend.

 

Agree about Rodriguez from Wolfsburg, no matter what we offer his club he will be seeking CL football.

 

That said, I'm sure we can improve the CB options, and possibly a decent replacement for RL up front (even if our style of play needs to be adapted).

[Saint Charlie]

Its not just replacing. Its making sure that whoever comes in is good enough to do the job from day one, especially with how the fixtures have fallen.

 

Must admit, it would be nice for the club to maybe comment that they have agreed a fee with Utd, especially seeing as it is out there now.

[St.JonB]

When you sell your best players you never improve.

 

 

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[S-Clarke]

Its not just replacing. Its making sure that whoever comes in is good enough to do the job from day one, especially with how the fixtures have fallen.

 

Must admit, it would be nice for the club to maybe comment that they have agreed a fee with Utd, especially seeing as it is out there now.

 

Would be stupid for them to say anything until it's done, dusted and complete.

 

In the same way, why haven't Man Utd come out to say they've agreed a fee with us? At the moment, it could well be the media jumping the gun as per usual - but obviously it will happen, but it's not close enough for any official club rubber stampings yet.

[Frank's cousin]

Exactly. If we get 30 million for Shaw that would have paid for Victor and Lovern last season and still left 10 million. We might not have (arguably) the best left back in the PL but three decent new recruits might be more valuable to the team in the long run.

 

Disagree... We underestimate how important the LB. position is... Because decent ones are rare the price is stupid... Because if you look at All successful sides they have quality on BOTH flanks enabling more attacking options... Partly why we were good last season... And back in 2003 when Mazza and Bridge... We were one of the few sides that carried a threat on both sides and that contributed to the progress and relative success... Only got to look at us being average at best when Shaw did not play....

 

If what some folks seem to believe that KL is SERIOUS. About progress, you don't let 18 year old talent leave for 30mil ... Sorry you just don't. Maybe if stuck in the CCC or L1 but not a side that just finished 8th in the Prem with a youthful side that had not reached its full potential...

[S-Clarke]

Disagree... We underestimate how important the LB. position is... Because decent ones are rare the price is stupid... Because if you look at All successful sides they have quality on BOTH flanks enabling more attacking options... Partly why we were good last season... And back in 2003 when Mazza and Bridge... We were one of the few sides that carried a threat on both sides and that contributed to the progress and relative success... Only got to look at us being average at best when Shaw did not play....

 

If what some folks seem to believe that KL is SERIOUS. About progress, you don't let 18 year old talent leave for 30mil ... Sorry you just don't. Maybe if stuck in the CCC or L1 but not a side that just finished 8th in the Prem with a youthful side that had not reached its full potential...

 

When the player himself has made his mind up, it's a very difficult deal to turn down. It looks to me as if the club have played hard ball and have kept their word - they've done it in the clubs way and on our time scale, not anyone else's. They've got the best possible deal for a left back who clearly felt it was time to leave.

 

All clubs will sell their best players, it's the nature of football. Ronaldo at Man Utd, Torres at Chelsea, Suarez will still leave Liverpool IMO. Bale from Spurs....Fellani from Everton...it's just the way it is. It's all about how you grow and build from it, Shaw could leave us with a sound legacy if we use it correctly.

 

The sale of Oxo at the time was a bummer, but we grew from it and we built from it. We're now a much stronger outfit from when he was here, OK it will be harder for us to get stronger from here - but the club seem to have a plan.

Edited 26 June, 2014 by S-Clarke

[Dig Dig]

You don't think we can replace Lambert with someone better?

 

I think that whoever plays centre forward for us next season won't be as good as Lambert.

[saint77]

When the player himself has made his mind up, it's a very difficult deal to turn down. It looks to me as if the club have played hard ball and have kept their word - they've done it in the clubs way and on our time scale, not anyone else's. They've got the best possible deal for a left back who clearly felt it was time to leave.

 

All clubs will sell their best players, it's the nature of football. Ronaldo at Man Utd, Torres at Chelsea, Suarez will still leave Liverpool IMO. Bale from Spurs....Fellani from Everton...it's just the way it is. It's all about how you grow and build from it, Shaw could leave us with a sound legacy if we use it correctly.

 

The sale of Oxo at the time was a bummer, but we grew from it and we built from it. We're now a much stronger outfit from when he was here, OK it will be harder for us to get stronger from here - but the club seem to have a plan.

 

Exactly this

[Saint Charlie]

I think that whoever plays centre forward for us next season won't be as good as Lambert.

 

Agree. Amazing how as soon as players or Managers leave people diminish their abilities. Only the other day someone said Walcott hasnt really kicked on since leaving Saints.

[ratio_decidendi]

I think that whoever plays centre forward for us next season won't be as good as Lambert.

 

With 14 goals throughout the season and 10 assists, I'd be inclined to agree with you. However, it's not the highest tally and, as he did this season, I expect Rodriguez to be just slightly better in the centre forward role.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Can't buy-in team spirit. Can't buy-in what the Academy lads learn and take into the 1st team. I don't have a problem with Lambert going - he's done his tour of duty. Shaw is a different proposition entirely. We'll not replace these things with £34m. I hope Koeman is as good a Manager as his CV indicates he is.

[EBS1980]

So if we lost Lambo and Shaw and signed Bertrand and Lukaku (and had £5m left over) would u be happy?

[Shandy_Top_89]

Its not the situation any of us would have wanted, but we can build a better squad off the back of this. Koeman is also a big enough name to attract some decent names that could surprise us.

[derry]

We had a good team last season but were very thin if injuries occurred. We certainly could do with another centre back, somebody to score goals from midfield, more goals and cutting edge up front. An international class goalkeeper to compete with Boruc is a necessity. We now can get at least one left back. If any of Lallana, Lovren or Schneiderlin leave we can replace them but ideally they stay. It will initially be difficult to blend and replicate the teamwork of last year but it can be done. It may be that the strengthening of the squad and improved contracts might steady the ship.

[a1ex2001]

So if we lost Lambo and Shaw and signed Bertrand and Lukaku (and had £5m left over) would u be happy?

 

Yes! I agree with everyone that it is sad to see him go but the club have no choice when players want to go they go and getting a world record transfer fee for a teenager is pretty good business. It's sad that the very cream of the academy lads will probably always move on but hopefully they will leave us financially sound and we can all enjoy the next generation and the slightly lesser players like Lallana who stick around longer.

 

Wish people would stop mentioning the goal and assist figures for lambert they really are nothing special once you knock off those from free kicks and penalties which should be easy enough to replace.

[Give it to Ron]

When you sell your best players you never improve.

 

 

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Everton and Athletico Madrid prove thats not always true!

[kpturner]

When you sell your best players you never improve.

 

 

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Way too simplistic. It's true if you don't replace them shrewdly, but plenty of teams have sold key players and improved. Off the top of my head, Athletico Madrid, Dortmund and, closer to home, a Everton and Swansea in recent years.

[benjii]

I think that whoever plays centre forward for us next season won't be as good as Lambert.

 

That would be very disappointing, given he was our weakest link.

[Toon Saint]

That would be very disappointing, given he was our weakest link.

 

Care to justify that ridiculous statement?

[Turkish]

Players leave, when clubs like Man United come knocking at their door all you can do is hold out for the best fee possible. We can't compete with what they can offer. Despite what some of the mentalists on here think by getting a world record fee for a full back and one of the biggest ever fees in the world for a teenager we've done just that. Where they now earn their corn is spending the money and whatever else we have a good replacement and other players to improve the squad as a whole.

[benjii]

Care to justify that ridiculous statement?

 

Sure.

 

In my opinion, he played worse over the course of the season than any of the other regular starters. The difference between us and the teams above us, apart from squad depth, was a potent top flight striker.

[Saint Charlie]

Sure.

 

In my opinion, he played worse over the course of the season than any of the other regular starters. The difference between us and the teams above us, apart from squad depth, was a potent top flight striker.

 

And the fact we had virtually no chance of a win when Hooiveld or Gazzaniga played.

[Toon Saint]

Sure.

 

In my opinion, he played worse over the course of the season than any of the other regular starters. The difference between us and the teams above us, apart from squad depth, was a potent top flight striker.

 

He scored or set up 23 goals last season which is 43% of our total. Baffles me how you can think he contributed less than any other starter. Yes, we could have done with extra striking options (Osvaldo was supposed to be that) but it is a bit strange to call him the weakest link - why would Liverpool have come in for him, if he marked us out as poorer than the teams above us? As talisman, target-man, playmaker, and reliable goalscorer all rolled into one, I bet we will miss him an awful lot.

[Baird of the land]

Obviously can't replace shaw with anyone of same quality. Best case scenario is getting someone competent or promising and that targett is competent academy player.

[Dig Dig]

Why do we need to sell our best players to build squad depth? Surely we would have been in a great position to do that anyway. I don't get the logic.

[Deano6]

I think that whoever plays centre forward for us next season won't be as good as Lambert.

 

Lambert will be 33 next season. The year after 34. We need to make a signing who will be better than a 34 year old Rickie Lambert next year. I think it's do-able.

[Saint Charlie]

Why do we need to sell our best players to build squad depth? Surely we would have been in a great position to do that anyway. I don't get the logic.

 

We could sign 7 players, have a worse first team and still no real depth in key areas.

[Goatboy]

So basically what we need this season is patience and giving expensive new signings time to settle in.

 

Yeah good luck with that. Alpine will have come up with a playground nickname for all the foreign ones by half time in the first game.

 

Can I bagsy D**k Van Shyte?

[Chez]

When you sell your best players you never improve.

 

 

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Agreed. If we wanted a stronger squad you retain your best players and replace your weakest with the massive tv money.

[Chez]

And the fact we had virtually no chance of a win when Hooiveld or Gazzaniga played.

 

That's a very good point.

[Saint_clark]

This is obviously true, but we can make a better squad of it, hopefully. Something we have really lacked in the last year or 2.

 

.

 

Sacrificing individual quality for surplus mediocrity, lead up to 04/05 anyone?

 

There's no reason in my mind we can't keep the quality and STILL have strength in depth. Over than short sightedness, of course.

[offix]

When the player himself has made his mind up, it's a very difficult deal to turn down. It looks to me as if the club have played hard ball and have kept their word - they've done it in the clubs way and on our time scale, not anyone else's. They've got the best possible deal for a left back who clearly felt it was time to leave.

 

All clubs will sell their best players, it's the nature of football. Ronaldo at Man Utd, Torres at Chelsea, Suarez will still leave Liverpool IMO. Bale from Spurs....Fellani from Everton...it's just the way it is. It's all about how you grow and build from it, Shaw could leave us with a sound legacy if we use it correctly.

 

The sale of Oxo at the time was a bummer, but we grew from it and we built from it. We're now a much stronger outfit from when he was here, OK it will be harder for us to get stronger from here - but the club seem to have a plan.

 

Totally agree. No need to panic. The club did well, and Koeman and Rees will give us some good surprises before the season starts

[Saint Charlie]

Totally agree. No need to panic. The club did well, and Koeman and Rees will give us some good surprises before the season starts

 

I agree on the individual case but the difference is Liverpool won't lose Suarez, Gerrard, Sterling, Sturridge and Rodgers all in one summer.

 

That is the difference here, its quite unprecedented to lose possibly four or five of the best players and a very successful Manager like we are (potentially) faced with.

 

Plus, whilst we lose players to clubs, we can't look to tbose clubs for replacements like a Liverpool or United could.

[Frank's cousin]

When the player himself has made his mind up, it's a very difficult deal to turn down. It looks to me as if the club have played hard ball and have kept their word - they've done it in the clubs way and on our time scale, not anyone else's. They've got the best possible deal for a left back who clearly felt it was time to leave.

 

All clubs will sell their best players, it's the nature of football. Ronaldo at Man Utd, Torres at Chelsea, Suarez will still leave Liverpool IMO. Bale from Spurs....Fellani from Everton...it's just the way it is. It's all about how you grow and build from it, Shaw could leave us with a sound legacy if we use it correctly.

 

The sale of Oxo at the time was a bummer, but we grew from it and we built from it. We're now a much stronger outfit from when he was here, OK it will be harder for us to get stronger from here - but the club seem to have a plan.

 

Clarkey, admire the optimism, but not so sure of your blind faith towards the board.. First up there IS a difefrence between us selling Shaw and Man U/Liverpool selling best players - and that difference is that they still attract replacements of the same calibre or better... we will NOT have a LB better than shaw at the start of next season... and that makes the side we put out weaker...

 

...at what point will fans understand that selling Lambert, Shaw, possibly lalllana, Lovren and who ever else will mean we have a huge hole - and with JRod out till nov/dec even with reasonable replacements - how long to gell? Part of out success was that this spine had been together for some time.

 

Ultimately we cant do anything about it and yes we carry on supporting the side as normal... but the fact remains that if we were serious about progressing as Les seem to keep mentioning and suggests is KLs aim to, we would not have sold an 18 year old academy graduate who signed a 5 year deal only last year at the first opportunity.

 

I just wish the board would stop treating fans like they are idiots and just say that 'as long as we stay in the prem, we will be happy'.... because selling your best talent, and worse potentially selling the entire spine is NOT going to see us progress no matter how much money we get in... trouble is, there are many fans for whom such a lack of serious ambition is no longer making us happy.

[Minty]

Oh stop it Frank. We have no divine right to anything. And pretty much any club in the world except the biggest would've accepted £30m for an 18-year-old. The board aren't treating fans like idiots, fans are just behaving like spoilt brats and can't handle the real world. Yes it's disappointing to lose players, but sh!t happens.

[70's Mike]

We could sign 7 players, have a worse first team and still no real depth in key areas.

 

as in 2004

[badgerx16]

...we would not have sold an 18 year old academy graduate who signed a 5 year deal only last year at the first opportunity.

 

A player who has had his head turned by being picked for his country and having £5million a year dangled under his nose by arguably the 'biggest club in the world'. How on Earth were we supposed to compete ? ( Notwithstanding the £30 million plus transfer fee ).

[Gemmel]

but the fact remains that if we were serious about progressing as Les seem to keep mentioning and suggests is KLs aim to' date=' [b']we would not have sold an 18 year old academy graduate who signed a 5 year deal only last year at the first opportunity.[/b].

 

That's just rubbish Frank and very naïve.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that part of his initial contract allowed to leave when he wanted against an agreed criteria. The footballing world was gushing about him before he signed 18 and could have walked into a massive contract at Chelsea with a huge signing on fee........ May be out of all of this, it is Luke that has looked after Saints!!

 

Anyway if the money is spent well, we can be stronger.

 

Whether we like it or not, there is a pecking order in football. Even before the biting incident, if Barca wanted Suarez they would have got him. Utd wanted Shaw... They got him

[S-Clarke]

Clarkey, admire the optimism, but not so sure of your blind faith towards the board.. First up there IS a difefrence between us selling Shaw and Man U/Liverpool selling best players - and that difference is that they still attract replacements of the same calibre or better... we will NOT have a LB better than shaw at the start of next season... and that makes the side we put out weaker...

 

...at what point will fans understand that selling Lambert, Shaw, possibly lalllana, Lovren and who ever else will mean we have a huge hole - and with JRod out till nov/dec even with reasonable replacements - how long to gell? Part of out success was that this spine had been together for some time.

 

Ultimately we cant do anything about it and yes we carry on supporting the side as normal... but the fact remains that if we were serious about progressing as Les seem to keep mentioning and suggests is KLs aim to, we would not have sold an 18 year old academy graduate who signed a 5 year deal only last year at the first opportunity.

 

I just wish the board would stop treating fans like they are idiots and just say that 'as long as we stay in the prem, we will be happy'.... because selling your best talent, and worse potentially selling the entire spine is NOT going to see us progress no matter how much money we get in... trouble is, there are many fans for whom such a lack of serious ambition is no longer making us happy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I still have my question marks over the board - notably a certain RK, who I really have no time for - but I think we should trust Reed, that's my feeling and take on it. He has been true to his word.

 

At the end of the day you also need to take an eye away from the club....and look at the players. They've all had amazing seasons, we only finished 8th. They will have been tracked and monitored by much bigger clubs than us. Talking and chats will have gone on in the background with agents and so on, so the players would have known that there are opportunities to move on this year - and also the financial awards of doing so. The players have clearly made it clear to the club of their intentions - they wanted to go, and so did MP. The club have them been put in a pretty tricky decision in terms of getting the best deals, but I think they've managed it thus far. In excess of £30m for an 18 year old left back is epic, but it will be very sad not to see him play for us any more.

 

But I think the major issue here is talk of the champions league - I think too many people saw that as a possibility, when it frankly wasn't. Players will therefore leave for clubs who can offer that, and of course the additional $$$ which is obviously just as important these days.

 

I think we will all be pleasantly surprised and quite excited by the additions we bring in. So let's just wait and see, Les has kept his word so far.

[sadoldgit]

I agree on the individual case but the difference is Liverpool won't lose Suarez, Gerrard, Sterling, Sturridge and Rodgers all in one summer.That is the difference here, its quite unprecedented to lose possibly four or five of the best players and a very successful Manager like we are (potentially) faced with.Plus, whilst we lose players to clubs, we can't look to tbose clubs for replacements like a Liverpool or United could.

Of course they wont. They have Champions League football and are a very big club. We dont and we arent. Very successful manager? Pochettino? We finished 8th and didnt win any cups. A good season but very successful, I dont think so. Over the years we have picked up some gems - Pahars springs to mind. There is no reason why we cant end up with a strong squad and kick on. We can never compete with wages but we can make shrewd signings. Lets see who comes in.