England v Uruguay

[skintsaint]

Indeed. I reckon Baines was about our worst player over the two games - not sure Shaw would/could have done any worse!

 

Frustrating as **** watching Baines last night...he gets into the last 3rd and normally for Everton he whips balls in most times, he has a great delivery on him....last night nearly everytime he just layed the ball back to either Gerrard or Henderson.

[Window Cleaner]

Frustrating as **** watching Baines last night...he gets into the last 3rd and normally for Everton he whips balls in most times, he has a great delivery on him....last night nearly everytime he just layed the ball back to either Gerrard or Henderson.

 

 

Perhaps that's what the coach told him to do eh. Should never have left Ashley Cole at home, that way Hodgson would have had an alternative at LB. Bad squad selection was always going to handicap England. We have to get to a point where the popular press doesn't pick the squad. Oh and stop taking walking wounded just in case they have miracle recoveries before the final which we wouldn't qualify for anyway. England could still have won last night...if they had Suarez,wasted too many 70% chances. Loads of shots on goal, only one beat the keeper. Suarez 2 shots, 2 goals.

[shurlock]

Perhaps that's what the coach told him to do eh. Should never have left Ashley Cole at home, that way Hodgson would have had an alternative at LB. Bad squad selection was always going to handicap England. We have to get to a point where the popular press doesn't pick the squad. Oh and stop taking walking wounded just in case they have miracle recoveries before the final which we wouldn't qualify for anyway. England could still have won last night...if they had Suarez,wasted too many 70% chances. Loads of shots on goal, only one beat the keeper. Suarez 2 shots, 2 goals.

 

By his standards, Suarez missed a sitter early in the 2nd half.

[skintsaint]

Perhaps that's what the coach told him to do eh.

 

Criminal if so.

[Window Cleaner]

By his standards, Suarez missed a sitter early in the 2nd half.

 

 

really, thought that was Cavani, might have been getting another tinny out of the fridge at that moment I suppose, can't get any maid service around here any more.

[Toadhall Saint]

By his standards, Suarez missed a sitter early in the 2nd half.

 

And he was annoyed. About it! Still 3 shots 2 goals not a bad return. The guy is world class - I'll be surprised if he's at Liverpool next season.

[Mallagroth]

the more i think about the happier I am that Saints players weren't massively involved in that dross. It could knock the confidence of those players who were.

[CB Fry]

Gerrard shocking, so much so that I wonder whether he is picking up winnings this morning. Baines at fault (in part) for all goals scored against us in this tournament. Rooney is carried so we are playing like a team with a man down. Hodgson like so many before him picked the team that brings the most guaranteed marketing revenue in rather than the team that can work together and win, why bother with the friendlies if you are only going to go and play Heskey (this year Welbeck or Rooney) anyway.

You're not giving up on the conspiracy bulls hit are you?

[Tamesaint]

But, of course, if any of thrse saviours of England are linked to moves to clubs higher up the league then they wouldn't get a game and they'd just sit on the bench.

 

Priceless!!

 

How old are you? You lose a debate on the lallana thread and you cannot let it go.

 

My son used to be like that. The good news for you is that when he reached 11 years old he matured and could let things go. Perhaps there is hope for you in the future.

[Window Cleaner]

And he was annoyed. About it! Still 3 shots 2 goals not a bad return. The guy is world class - I'll be surprised if he's at Liverpool next season.

 

According to some Uruguyan exile that we had commenting on Infosport after the game last night Suarez is still on 1 leg with injections.

[positivepete]

Yeah the idea is to play Southampton 4-2-3-1, but where our 2 defensive midfielders are expert ballwinners, England play Gerrard & Henderson. Where we like to have quick & aggressive wing-backs, England play Baines & Johnson, where we press hard to win the ball back high up the field, England like to sit back in rigid formation & hope for counter-attack.

 

Spot on Bearsy

[Mallagroth]

You're not giving up on the conspiracy bulls hit are you?

 

lol no. Fair point, I am on a bit of a roll with the conspiracy ****.

 

Think it's because I just cannot see the logic in most of the decisions being made so am finding outlandish excuses for it rather than simple incompetence.

[ericofarabia]

Well, turns out that England were even shíttier than I thought. Undone by two goals from a supposedly unfit striker, that in both cases, managed to find enough space to score.

 

Spent much of last night calling pretty much the entire team and management names. Probably fitting that Rooney scored the goal. For the most part, it was a team performance of his individual headless chicken routine. Sterling's hair-do actually makes him look a bit like a rooster, so the image was difficult to shake.

 

Substitutes were wánk; quite why anyone thinks Barkley is the answer in a game you're losing is beyond me. Fairly clear that England could have done with Lallana a lot earlier in the game. As it was, Barkley didn't work out so Lallana and Lambert were thrown on in frustration. Didn't get any sense of a plan or a style. It was reactive, unimaginative boll*cks and if we finish the group with nil point, no-one is going to be surprised.

 

Please get Gerrard and Rooney out of the fkn team.

 

Wow!!

 

I love this version of Pap. More please.

[saint-crinny]

A lot of sense in this post. However you did leave Rooney out of your changes.... Rooney has been pretty dreadful now for a couple of years both in the England team and for his club. He is immobile and can't even control the ball when it's passed to him... His time is over too...

For Woy to pick the same team again after Italy was clearly a really por decision. ( yes. I know we played Rooney in the middle this time). We were not that good against Italy for. Christ sake!

While Im at it the complete media cocktail party over Sterling is mental. He runs around in circles up blind alleys with no end product!

Put someone in charge who can really rocognise the problems, and players who are actually good enough. Someone who will not let the media love in brigade pick the team!

My man is Hoddle who has been the only pundit to talk about the structure of the matches and talk sense about the personnel.

 

Interesting debate on Rooney - the constant drilling down into everything he does from the media has left him on a hiding to nothing in my opinion. It's an obsession from the media and to be honest, Roy did him no favours by playing him wide in the first game, where he was clearly not comfortable. He did quite well last night, simple tap in for the goal but a great run round the back to make it, plus he was unfortunate not to get another.

 

For me, he's a great player but not a world class player. He's certainly not a wide forward and I dont think he's a great 10 either - today's modern 10 has everything running through him, taking the ball and moving it quickly, and Rooney doesn't affect the game in that way.

 

At the end of the day, he's got 40 England goals and i'd prefer to see him in the number 9 role. He's a very good striker - he has shown that for both United and England, when he has played in that role (27 goals for United in one season in that role i think). He will score regularly for England if he plays there.

 

He is still one of our best players and will be so in the next qualifiers as well.

 

Sterling is raw and makes the wrong decisions at times, but he will be a decent player and needs time to develop - pace is so crucial and he has it in abundance.

[ericofarabia]

England still have a couple of options left ....... Window or aisle, Chicken or Beef.

 

[Mallagroth]

 

sorry couldn't resist...

[Smirking_Saint]

I heard Pearce on " my sporting life" and he came across as funny, down to earth and had some great stories about Cloughie. One that made me laugh should be used on today's superstars. Following his first call up , cloughie called him into his office . " Young man, do you think you're good enough for international football", he asked "I think so " replied Pearce, " well I ****ing don't". Replied Clough. Pearce credits moments like that with keeping his feet on the ground.

 

He also went on about his time running the u21' and how English players don't use the lower age group tournament to get experience of tournament football, whereas the Germans do.

 

Ive basically said this for years, all the time Jack glasslegs wilshere can refuse to play for the U21s and then walk into the senior side then we are sending out the wrong message, decide on our probable formation and play similar tactics at all age groups keeping the younger players playing games rather then sit on the bench

[angelman]

To me it all comes down to them thinking that they are God's gift to football because they play in PL. We are told it's the best league in the world etc etc so maybe they believe the hype.

[derry]

Frustrating as **** watching Baines last night...he gets into the last 3rd and normally for Everton he whips balls in most times, he has a great delivery on him....last night nearly everytime he just layed the ball back to either Gerrard or Henderson.

 

When Cavani received the ball before chipping to Suarez for the first goal Baines was just outside level with Jagielka. He could see Suarez and could have challenged him but when Suarez dropped off Jagielka, Baines was still standing watching and made no attempt to defend and give cover to Jagielka. He was still stationary when the ball was in the net.

 

He might be good on the ball but he is a **** poor defender. He was the last man in the line, the least he should have done as Suarez was the threat was block him off and challenge, spectating was crass.

[Kingsbridge Saint]

So many unnecessary second touches and then a pass back or sideways. No tempo. Played like they had all day. No confidence in marked team mates to trust them with a quick pass. Either the players are just chicken to take a few calculated risks or they have been told to play safety first. I know where my money is. Hodgson Out.

[igsey]

What irks me is all this hype before hand about how Roy's being brave and using a young squad, how exciting! The average age of the starting line up of both games was 27 years old; take Stirling out of that and it's 28. How is that a young, exciting team?

 

I don't understand the logic of taking a squad of 23 if you're only prepared to play the same 14-15 players. I'm still fairly amazed he didn't bring Milner on instead of Lambert.

[shurlock]

So many unnecessary second touches and then a pass back or sideways. No tempo. Played like they had all day. No confidence in marked team mates to trust them with a quick pass. Either the players are just chicken to take a few calculated risks or they have been told to play safety first. I know where my money is. Hodgson Out.

 

Exactly -and all the supposed saviours of the game -Barkley, Sterling, Sturridge, Rooney- were more guilty than anyone. A better Steve Davis would be ideal.

Edited 20 June, 2014 by shurlock

[Wrensup]

Exactly -and all the supposed saviours of the game -Barkley, Sterling, Sturridge, Rooney- were more guilty than anyone. A better Steve Davis would be ideal.

 

Or just an English one

[Window Cleaner]

What irks me is all this hype before hand about how Roy's being brave and using a young squad, how exciting! The average age of the starting line up of both games was 27 years old; take Stirling out of that and it's 28. How is that a young, exciting team?

 

I don't understand the logic of taking a squad of 23 if you're only prepared to play the same 14-15 players. I'm still fairly amazed he didn't bring Milner on instead of Lambert.

 

Well I expect he didn't count on losing against Italy and being up against the wall in only the second match. A squad of 23 including 3 keepers isn't too much provided you progress in the tournament, if you're going to get knocked out at the initial group stage you might as well only take 14 or 15, that's largely enough. After that accumulated yellow cards and injuries force you to use the depth of your group, I match suspension for just 2 cards idoesn't give you much scope especially in key areas like CM where players get cards often enough. Think there are a few suspended already after only 2 games max per pool. But Shaw was a poor choice, should have taken Cole and played him from the start, big game experience like CL and EL finals is useful enough in games such as England have had already. That's one of the England squad's biggest problems in my opinion, there are too many players without CL experience, it's what guides players in difficult situations, they've been there and done that. I know Deschamps is fanatically keen about it.

Edited 20 June, 2014 by Window Cleaner

[derry]

Hodgson is a very average manager. His team yesterday looked way out of date, passing slowly at the back with little or no movement then players at the front running up blind alleys. The tempo was slow, the pressing non-existent, the lack of movement and passing up front made it easy for Uruguay to block us and win the ball. Internationally Sturridge might score the odd goal but along with Sterling and Welbeck lacks awareness. We squander opportunities because we have no clinical finishers. Those three forwards need too many chances to score a goal and flatter to deceive. In football terms they are thick.

[shurlock]

Or just an English one

 

Mindful it was only a friendly but he was excellent against Uruguay in their recent friendly.

[Baird of the land]

Once again for me playing both Rooney and Sturridge looked idiotic. Rooney scored when moved up front but then while he was involved in the goal moving sturridge out wide made him far less effective. At some point england needs to learn to pick players for positions based on their suitability for that position rather than forcing big names into same lineup. Still they would have got at least a drawer with any kind of defence or keeper other than those that played last night. Next euros are perfect time to rebuild for world cup, don't pick anyone over 30 immediately.

[Window Cleaner]

Once again for me playing both Rooney and Sturridge looked idiotic. Rooney scored when moved up front but then while he was involved in the goal moving sturridge out wide made him far less effective. At some point england needs to learn to pick players for positions based on their suitability for that position rather than forcing big names into same lineup. Still they would have got at least a drawer with any kind of defence or keeper other than those that played last night. Next euros are perfect time to rebuild for world cup, don't pick anyone over 30 immediately.

 

 

Hart had no chance with either goal, Suarez doesn't miss those, you could put whoever you like between the sticks and all other things being equal Suarez would have scored both times. Change the defence and maybe not who knows but Hart wasn't at fault.

[derry]

Once again for me playing both Rooney and Sturridge looked idiotic. Rooney scored when moved up front but then while he was involved in the goal moving sturridge out wide made him far less effective. At some point england needs to learn to pick players for positions based on their suitability for that position rather than forcing big names into same lineup. Still they would have got at least a drawer with any kind of defence or keeper other than those that played last night. Next euros are perfect time to rebuild for world cup, don't pick anyone over 30 immediately.

 

Basically he picked his best eleven as he saw it, however he made no effort to pick players that formed a blend that would make the team performance better than the sum of the parts. We were just an eleven slung together. Some managers get it Hodgson doesn't.

[Saint_Ash]

Hart had no chance with either goal, Suarez doesn't miss those, you could put whoever you like between the sticks and all other things being equal Suarez would have scored both times. Change the defence and maybe not who knows but Hart wasn't at fault.

 

 

Apart from he could've saved the second goal if he was brave and stood tall and didn't limbo under the ball, probably scared it might take some hairs out and he couldn't do the head and shoulders adverts anymore.

[Bearsy]

Apart from he could've saved the second goal if he was brave and stood tall and didn't limbo under the ball, probably scared it might take some hairs out and he couldn't do the head and shoulders adverts anymore.

 

I thought he done really well to get out the way of that. Only a keeper with world class reaction speed could have avoided that ball.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

To me it all comes down to them thinking that they are God's gift to football because they play in PL. We are told it's the best league in the world etc etc so maybe they believe the hype.

 

What you going to go for next in the great 'Uninformed England fans bingo'. I'll give you some.

 

- Too many foreigners in the Prem

- They're all bill big balls and don't care

- Not enough passion - they don't want to win

- They all get paid too much - if they were on the minimum wage they'd care more

 

Seriously, these are just b0llocks rent-a-quote reasons.

 

The real reason we didn't win in both our games are a lack of decent players, and under-preparation to plan for pressing football. That's it. The funniest thing is the media and the fans apparently had no expectations and certainly didn't expect us to go through, but we had a chance. We played ok against Italy, and poorly last night, and it was all down to very small margins in both games.

 

The players will be utterly gutted that it looks like they're going out, for sure.

[angelman]

Jeff, while you can jog on, I was referring to U21.

[Bearsy]

What you going to go for next in the great 'Uninformed England fans bingo'.

 

Watching england games at pub are even worse than SMS for getting stuck next to some **** talking utter ********. Young John Motson stood next to me was complaining loudly in yam-yam accent for 10 minutes bout how suarez second goal was clearly offside if they'd only show proper replay angle we would all see, before i finally relented and punched him in head.

[shurlock]

Yeah the idea is to play Southampton 4-2-3-1, but where our 2 defensive midfielders are expert ballwinners, England play Gerrard & Henderson. Where we like to have quick & aggressive wing-backs, England play Baines & Johnson, where we press hard to win the ball back high up the field, England like to sit back in rigid formation & hope for counter-attack.

 

This all day long.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Jeff, while you can jog on, I was referring to U21.

 

What Under 21's? Sterling?

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Watching england games at pub are even worse than SMS for getting stuck next to some **** talking utter ********. Young John Motson stood next to me was complaining loudly in yam-yam accent for 10 minutes bout how suarez second goal was clearly offside if they'd only show proper replay angle we would all see, before i finally relented and punched him in head.

 

Twitter this morning has been unreal, England fans are frankly morons who just echo the idiotic press. It happened on here with the Saints 'Meltdown', and it happens with England even when we have done pretty much as expected.

[OldNick]

Once again for me playing both Rooney and Sturridge looked idiotic. Rooney scored when moved up front but then while he was involved in the goal moving sturridge out wide made him far less effective. At some point england needs to learn to pick players for positions based on their suitability for that position rather than forcing big names into same lineup. Still they would have got at least a drawer with any kind of defence or keeper other than those that played last night. Next euros are perfect time to rebuild for world cup, don't pick anyone over 30 immediately.

Rooney should have been left where he was during the Italy game as his goal and the goal he created both came from him being on the left. Playing Sturridge out wide was madness

[Graffito]

Watching england games at pub are even worse than SMS for getting stuck next to some **** talking utter ********. Young John Motson stood next to me was complaining loudly in yam-yam accent for 10 minutes bout how suarez second goal was clearly offside if they'd only show proper replay angle we would all see, before i finally relented and punched him in head.

 

Thanks for that. First laugh since last night.

[angelman]

What Under 21's? Sterling?

 

Why not look at the post before mine, which is discussing the U21 team/situation.

[Unbelievable Jeff]

Why not look at the post before mine, which is discussing the U21 team/situation.

 

Why not quote the post? Perhaps you won't be misquoted then?

 

Either way, the post still stands (although perhaps not directed at you), I hate it when people use clichéd reasons that aren't applicable.

[scotty]

Thanks for that. First laugh since last night.

 

Have another one on me, this cheered me up;

 

http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/39-world-cup-2014/929146-world-cup-report-england-v-uruguay

[saint michael]

Suarez horrible little man

[Deano6]

It's annoying that I have to hate Suarez for footballing reasons again now.

[FloridaMarlin]

To me it all comes down to them thinking that they are God's gift to football because they play in PL. We are told it's the best league in the world etc etc so maybe they believe the hype.

 

And therein lies the problem with the England national team.

 

The self-styled best league in the world will be crowing that it supplied more players for World Cup squads than any other league.

 

120 players in the finals ply their trade in the FA, the next best is Italy with 82, then Germany 77.

 

Take out the 22 players in the England squad from that 120 and that leaves 98 foreign players in the top flight. Don't blame the clubs for signing those players, blame the system.

 

The Premier League's dog-eat-dog nature provides clubs with the financial wherewithal, and excuse not to spend valuable time and resources developing domestic young talent.

 

The huge rewards in the Premier League are not conducive to long-termism and patient development. Why spend time and resources on developing a young player and bringing him through when thanks to the largesse of Sky and BT you can go out and buy a ready-made product off the shelf of your nearest European or South American quicki-mart?

 

The TV companies don't dole out huge wads of cash to screen games featuring up-and-coming youngsters, they want clubs to spend their money on big-name overseas players. After all, it's what makes the Premier League the self-styled Best League in the World.

 

And of course, it suits the TV companies to have some of the world's top players in the EPL, they can sell their packages predicated on the great players you will be able to see on the haunted fishtank in the corner of your room.

 

It's win-win for the TV companies, win-win for the viewer and pretty much win-win for the clubs. The loser is the long-term future of the England football team and development of English players who can't get into their club's first teams. especially when clubs are becoming increasingly ambivalent about international football. Liverpool don't want Suarez playing at the World Cup and risking his knee. Citeh must wince every time somebody tackles Aguero, and who can blame them when they are investing £100,000 a week in the player?

 

If you feel sorry for Hodgson now (and I do, even allowing for some of the mistakes he has made) what faces an England manager 10 years down the line?

 

You can only build a pyramid high if the base is broad and development of players is always a numbers game. It stands to reason that if fewer young English players are getting into squads populated foreign players courtesy of TV money, then the quality of England players available to any manager is going to be lessened. We're seeing that now after 20 years or so of the Premier League. What's it going to be like over the next 20?

 

Most people agree our big problems at the moment are at the heart of our defence, and a lack of a predatory goalscorer. But do you see any of the next generation of English centre-backs currently plying their trade in the Premier League (Stones at Everton, perhaps). Where is our Luis Suarez?

 

It's easy to point the finger at the FA and tell them to do something about it, but what can they do? They are pretty much hamstrung, and at the behest of the clubs and the Premier League.

 

The only way I can see a sea-change is if the Premier League and its clubs are reigned in and forced to adopt a quota system, but that ain't going to happen. As a special shareholder in the PL, the FA are limited to veto power during the election of the chairman and chief executive and when new rules are adopted by the league, so the PL can effectively tell the FA to get lost.

 

We effectively have the England football team our system deserves. We don't have the collective and national mentality of, say the Germans. The DFB - not the clubs- still holds power in Germany and their view is that a successful national team benefits all domestic football. So the clubs work with the DFB towards producing a successful German team, knowing the trickle-down benefits.

 

Until Premier League clubs have their hand forced to realise that, the England team will suffer. Clubs will always be self-centred and as long as the hand that feeds them keeps lobbing a rich diet at them, they are not going to bite it.

[Smirking_Saint]

Good listen except for his last sentance

 

http://tlks.pt/YCopRx

[Baird of the land]

Hart had no chance with either goal, Suarez doesn't miss those, you could put whoever you like between the sticks and all other things being equal Suarez would have scored both times. Change the defence and maybe not who knows but Hart wasn't at fault.

 

Disagree on the 2nd. Excellent finish but Keeper has to stay big in that situation for me. Far more blame on centre backs of course.

[Window Cleaner]

Disagree on the 2nd. Excellent finish but Keeper has to stay big in that situation for me. Far more blame on centre backs of course.

 

Interestingly (or perhaps not) they had a chap on TF1 last night who said that he knows a bit about Suarez (can't remember why) and that he has a sort of built in instinctive radar for these things, he knows where the keeper is without looking and knows exactly where to put the ball to beat him, could be poetic licence and all that but all of the experts seemed to be in complete agreement with him.

[Window Cleaner]

Good listen except for his last sentance

 

http://tlks.pt/YCopRx

 

I can't help but agree with him, although being I Saints follower for many years I just can't see that Lambert or Shaw amongst others had their place in this 23. Should have taken Cole (always said that) and he should have taken a real winger instead of Lambert, doesn't really matter who, as long as he can get down a flank and past the defender.

Johnson showed them what to do eventually, imagine if we'd had a real winger doing that for 90 minutes. Spain left their wingers at home as well and look at the result. It's true that you can play without recognised wide men, but there you need better players in CM than Gerrard and Henderson because if you're going to throw your FBs forward a lot then the 2 CMs need to be rock solid...and fast. Still if Walcott and JRod weren't injured then I think England's campaign might have been better.

[Bearsy]

Interestingly (or perhaps not) they had a chap on TF1 last night who said that he knows a bit about Suarez (can't remember why) and that he has a sort of built in instinctive radar for these things, he knows where the keeper is without looking and knows exactly where to put the ball to beat him, could be poetic licence and all that but all of the experts seemed to be in complete agreement with him.

 

prob knew where joe hart was from the astringent stench of Head & Shoulders shampoo