England v Uruguay

[Katalinic]

 

 

Either way, it's time to make big changes at the FA/England team.

 

This is said every time we screw up at a major tournament and nothing ever changes. English football has stood still for years whilst the so called "lesser" nations have not only improved but overtaken us in respect of technicality with the ball.

[CB Fry]

I think the point you are missing that football is a team game with the emphasis on TEAM. Selecting a group of players from saints that have played / trained together as a team would in my opinion get a better result out of the last two England games than we witnessed.

 

im not suggesting that the 11 players would be my starting 11 just trying to provoke some thought to what an England side could achieve with players outside the standard England picks.

 

Clearly if I was selecting a first choice starting 11 a number of the starting 11 would feature but maybe not as many as were on show last night. Yes Ward-prowse wouldn't in reality be anywhere close to a strong first 11. my point is a strong team ethic is more important than picking your best 11 players.

 

how many players in other weaker teams than England have performed better through team spirit and togetherness of a squad?

You can make that point without selecting a load of random players that have no chance of making the current England team.

 

Why would the goalie relegated with Norwich be a significant improvement in England playing together as a TEAM versus the keeper who won the league?

 

And there are loads of players in the squad now that have trained together all season. But that team is Liverpool so it doesn't count, does it. Only Saints players have team spirit.

[Coxford_lou]

This is a good post.

 

Roy got carried away with the "play all our young wonderkids" calls, when really we should have played the most boring team imaginable and tried to grind it out, especially against Italy.

 

Italy gave us space to play and we flattered to deceive. Uruguay didn't let us knock it about and we went to pieces.

 

I feel sorry for Roy, but I think he got suckered into picking a team that The Sun wanted, rather than his own better judgement. Lashings of hindsight of course: Roy would have been slaughtered if Italy beat a "boring" England.

 

He'll probably quit now, but I would be happy if he didn't.

 

 

Yes, I agree with all this. I actually didn't think Rooney was so bad in this game, given he was surrounded and fouled at every opportunity. It's the Gascoigne-esque Sterling/Barkley runs that 90% of the time lead no where and give possession away that bother me. Uruguay had a game plan against us, but ours seemed to be nothing more than attack attack attack, which just seemed naive. I also wonder if Hogson's multiple trips to St Mary's were as much about studying Pochettino's tactics than watching our players, but not really daring or having the expertise to pull that style off, so attempted a diluted version. (Attacking, some pressing, but no high line). Not sure, just a thought.

 

At least Lallana and/or Lambert would have been looking for the intelligent through ball and retain possession, rather than the slightly mindless 'running at players'. We all asked for more attacking (or England 'going for it'), so we can't complain really.

[Turkish]

i was thinking of of team made up of players that didnt start or get picked in the squad that would beat the current england starting 11 and have damn decent chance of qualifying out of that group and came up with the following -

 

Ruddy

 

clyne terry shawcross shaw

cork wilshire

 

ward-prowse lallana jay rod

lambert

 

 

i know a couple had injuries but it really isnt rocket science. the key is mobility in midfield, pace out wide at full back, strength and defensive nowse at centre back and decent technique in your front four. yes its saints biased but the point is that it goes to show that thier are players out there who could play the system we adopted stt his world cup if you get over the ingrained problem we have of the press picking the team.

 

Got to agree with this. If you replaced Ruddy with Kelvin Davis, Chambers and jack Stephens in the centre back positions and Harry reed alongside Cork it'd be even better.

 

 

Unless what you mean by 'a team made up of players they didn't start' is actually a saints/Recent Ex Saints 11 with a few random players thrown in where we don't have a first choice English player in that position would be better than England.

[Lorne Malvo]

Would be typical of us to get through by Italy winning both their games and us beating Costa Rica. Its not that unbelievable that it may happen.

[Coxford_lou]

Another thing I would say is the quality of International football is so bloody high: it's easy to criticise individual players, and say Cork would have done better than Gerrard, Clyne better than Johnson, and maybe they will one day, but c**k ups get punished so much quicker at the World Cup. Both those players are pretty good at daft slip ups for Saints that they get away with, but would be brutal at world stage.

 

I've said Lallana and Lambert should have been brought on, but we'll never know if they'd have flourished or just disappeared in what was a frenetic, foul ridden, pressurised game like that. It just ain't that easy.

[Graffito]

This is a good post.

 

Roy got carried away with the "play all our young wonderkids" calls, when really we should have played the most boring team imaginable and tried to grind it out, especially against Italy.

 

Italy gave us space to play and we flattered to deceive. Uruguay didn't let us knock it about and we went to pieces.

 

I feel sorry for Roy, but I think he got suckered into picking a team that The Sun wanted, rather than his own better judgement. Lashings of hindsight of course: Roy would have been slaughtered if Italy beat a "boring" England.

 

He'll probably quit now, but I would be happy if he didn't.

 

It wasn't just the Sun. Virtually everyone wanted England to go for it.

[CB Fry]

It wasn't just the Sun. Virtually everyone wanted England to go for it.

Oh absolutely, was using it as shorthand for popular opinion. There were no calls for James Milner pre either match.

[angelman]

I don't know what it is with England, but we seem to take skilled midfielders from their clubs, throw them together, and create something that you would not choose to play anywhere near the PL. The old one was that you couldn't play Lampard and Gerrard together, but in reality, you can't seemingly play anyone together. To me the midfield acts as a buffer for your defenders and a base for attack - have an ineffective midfield, and you're screwed.

[Graffito]

So can anybody tell me what the game plan was last night.....anybody that reads a game better than I, because fck knows what the strategy and tactics were. Please don't say they are based around picking Gerrard because that's not so.

[Professor]

It needs England to go out so that the media can stop their Gerrard and Rooney Love-in.

Hodgson is a good front man but I thought he could have used what he had to better effect in his team selection and use of substitutes, so if an early exit results in a change of manager, that's probably no bad thing. But more important, IMHO, is that the team is coached to play better passing and possession football. I'm sure we have players with the capability but if you compare England to Spain and Italy, our possession play was dreadful. Maybe Hodgson thought that having five players from one club (Liverpool) would solve the problem of getting them to play as a team, but it was a very long way from doing that.

[pap]

Well, turns out that England were even shíttier than I thought. Undone by two goals from a supposedly unfit striker, that in both cases, managed to find enough space to score.

 

Spent much of last night calling pretty much the entire team and management names. Probably fitting that Rooney scored the goal. For the most part, it was a team performance of his individual headless chicken routine. Sterling's hair-do actually makes him look a bit like a rooster, so the image was difficult to shake.

 

Substitutes were wánk; quite why anyone thinks Barkley is the answer in a game you're losing is beyond me. Fairly clear that England could have done with Lallana a lot earlier in the game. As it was, Barkley didn't work out so Lallana and Lambert were thrown on in frustration. Didn't get any sense of a plan or a style. It was reactive, unimaginative boll*cks and if we finish the group with nil point, no-one is going to be surprised.

 

Please get Gerrard and Rooney out of the fkn team.

[sandwichsaint]

Clearly we need a 5-a-side game between Liverpool and Saints to sort out the proper champions of English football:

 

Johnson / Gerrard / Hendo / Sturridge / Sterling

 

v

 

Clyne / Cork / Lallana / J Rod / Lambert

 

 

Liverpool win on big names/experience/pace

 

Saints win on team spirit/technique/rhythm/tempo/tactical awareness

[Sheaf Saint]

Please get Gerrard and Rooney out of the fkn team.

 

Gerrard will undoubtedly retire from England after this WC, which at least saves Roy from having to have the balls to drop him.

 

Rooney, on the other hand, will continue to cling on in desperation like a massive turd that just won't flush away.

[Bearsy]

So can anybody tell me what the game plan was last night.....anybody that reads a game better than I, because fck knows what the strategy and tactics were. Please don't say they are based around picking Gerrard because that's not so.

 

Yeah the idea is to play Southampton 4-2-3-1, but where our 2 defensive midfielders are expert ballwinners, England play Gerrard & Henderson. Where we like to have quick & aggressive wing-backs, England play Baines & Johnson, where we press hard to win the ball back high up the field, England like to sit back in rigid formation & hope for counter-attack.

[Badger]

This is said every time we screw up at a major tournament and nothing ever changes. English football has stood still for years whilst the so called "lesser" nations have not only improved but overtaken us in respect of technicality with the ball.

 

Unbelievable isn't it how the Dutch, Germans, French continually produce teams that are relatively successful and even entertaining to watch, but we've just stood still with the same mediocrity for forty years.

 

Of course we did break that mold with our 'golden generation' of Beckham, Owen et al during which time we won the square root of f^ck all, timidly going out at quarter final stages on penalties. Again players consumed by their own image and reputations rather than motivated to perform.

[angelman]

Yeah the idea is to play Southampton 4-2-3-1, but where our 2 defensive midfielders are expert ballwinners, England play Gerrard & Henderson. Where we like to have quick & aggressive wing-backs, England play Baines & Johnson, where we press hard to win the ball back high up the field, England like to sit back in rigid formation & hope for counter-attack.

 

Or was it to play Liverpool's 5 and everyone else slot around them?

[sandwichsaint]

Or was it to play Liverpool's 5 and everyone else slot around them?

 

Pretty much this

[OldNick]

I said before the Italy game that Sterling should not play from the start but to be used as a shock tactic with his pace. Each game his energy has been wasted early in the match.

We didnt play with the energy or freedom we had in the first game.

It seems to me our media and our players get it in their head that Pirlo, Balotelli and Suarezs of the world are so frightening that we just give them freedom. Why did we not kick Suarez in the air in the first 15 minutes? they would had it been our star player.

[Badger]

Or was it to play Liverpool's 5 and everyone else slot around them?

 

And accommodate Rooney and Wellbeck. Once this is done see how many places are up for grabs.

[shirleysfc]

At least Johnson was less w.a.n.k than he was against Italy. It says something when he's the best Liverpool performa in an England shirt!

[Bearsy]

Or was it to play Liverpool's 5 and everyone else slot around them?

 

Considering how Roy couldn't coach Liverpool well enough to beat stoke, it's prob no surprise he can't coach them to beat Italy + Uragay either

[Elias]

Too many Liverpool players in that team. Not sure just how Roy (and lots of the armchair football fans) thought that playing a girlfriend beating Jamaican toddler was better than giving Lallana a go.

 

Gerrard is past it, Henderson isn't an international quality central midfielder. Sturridge tried hard but wasted too many attacks with lame shots.

[Doctoroncall]

I don't think England have beaten a higher ranked team in a World Cup Tournament in something like 40 years over 90 minutes, so it was odds on England would crash out at the group stage with Italy and Uruguay in the group.

 

Perhaps to give us a better chance next time, the manager can at least set up the team with players that are experienced in playing in the positions they have been for their club rather than expecting them at the premier tournament against world class teams to play in a position that is not familiar.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Stuart Pearce is saying on the radio. We simply do not use the U21s enough.

 

When you look at Germany Portugal, holland, spain etc, they use the u21s miles better

 

Would shaw learn more going to Brazil sightseeing or playing all the games at the Toulon tournament??

 

 

Either way, it's time to make big changes at the FA/England team.

 

I heard Pearce on " my sporting life" and he came across as funny, down to earth and had some great stories about Cloughie. One that made me laugh should be used on today's superstars. Following his first call up , cloughie called him into his office . " Young man, do you think you're good enough for international football", he asked "I think so " replied Pearce, " well I ****ing don't". Replied Clough. Pearce credits moments like that with keeping his feet on the ground.

 

He also went on about his time running the u21' and how English players don't use the lower age group tournament to get experience of tournament football, whereas the Germans do.

[Charlie Wayman]

Just when you think things cannot get worse wit England invariably of course they do. Still the lads had a lovely holiday in Brazil which is about as much as most of them seem to go out there for. There are no penalties for failure at international level so the WGAF attitude amongst this lot will continue to prevail. No longer is it worth arguing about detail there is something rotten about English football which we seem incapable of understanding let alone correcting. E can have no confidence at all that a so-called root and brach overall of the whole FA shebang would come up with anything better. Especially as Spain are also showing signs of turning up only to sign on. Methinks international football is dead in the water, now replaced by the true internationalism of the European Cup & Top European Leagues teams. Good job for Eufa quotas otherwise all the top PL teams would be devoid of England players.

 

Don't fret if you'd rather watch Chile & Mexico you soon will be as a team near you.

[supersonic]

Too many Liverpool players in that team. Not sure just how Roy (and lots of the armchair football fans) thought that playing a girlfriend beating Jamaican toddler was better than giving Lallana a go.

Gerrard is past it, Henderson isn't an international quality central midfielder. Sturridge tried hard but wasted too many attacks with lame shots.

 

completely unnecessary. He was cleared of all charges so I suggest you do your homework before making ridiculous statements. He's also English FYI

 

Sterling is a different player to Lallana, and was the type of player we needed last night with Uruguay's full backs. Felt sorry for Sterling, had to adapt his game because nobody would stay in the box for him to cross too. Thought he played ok - not brilliant, but showed flashes he can do it on the world stage and had the right attitude.

 

Agree about Henderson, but who else would we play? A half fit Wilshere?

[saint-crinny]

Chastening the way that we haven't progressed in four years. If we play Germany tomorrow, there is no doubt that it would be another 4-1 thrashing, minimum. We still can't receive the ball in a tight situation and we still concede from straight forward punts up the pitch.

 

Annoying the way Roy threatened to do things differently with the likes of Lallana and Barkley, and then bottled it when it came to the crunch.

 

For me, after the World Cup, it's time for Gerrard to call it a day - ho doesn't impact games anymore. Welbeck and Johnson need to be dropped.

 

Lallana needs to start ahead of Welbeck, Barkley into the centre in place of Gerrard.

 

Clyne into the squad and probably first choice at RB, Shaw should be brought in ahead of Baines as LB as for me, as much as i like the way he wants to play, he doesn't have the legs to do it at international level.

 

The holding midfield role is a tough call - don't think that is particularly Henderson's role, but i'm not going to go mad and suggest Cork should walk in there.

 

We have a relatively straightforward Euro qualifier group - it's time to make the right decisions and build a team up that plays international football.

[Doctoroncall]

I heard Pearce on " my sporting life" and he came across as funny, down to earth and had some great stories about Cloughie. One that made me laugh should be used on today's superstars. Following his first call up , cloughie called him into his office . " Young man, do you think you're good enough for international football", he asked "I think so " replied Pearce, " well I ****ing don't". Replied Clough. Pearce credits moments like that with keeping his feet on the ground.

 

He also went on about his time running the u21' and how English players don't use the lower age group tournament to get experience of tournament football, whereas the Germans do.

 

Baines hasn't had great games in the WCT, why didn't Roy choose Shaw for the Uruguay match or was it too much of a risk? If Cole had been in the squad, an easy change to make to challenge Baines to up his game and with little risk. Don't see the point of Shaw being there if he's not going to play.

[Ruffo]

I heard the pilots didn't even shut the engines down on the England plane, just refuelled for the return flight

[CB Fry]

Too many Liverpool players in that team. Not sure just how Roy (and lots of the armchair football fans) thought that playing a girlfriend beating Jamaican toddler was better than giving Lallana a go.

 

Gerrard is past it, Henderson isn't an international quality central midfielder. Sturridge tried hard but wasted too many attacks with lame shots.

 

You are needed on the Lallana transfer thread. There's a few geniuses on there that think Lallana would only be a benchwarmer at Liverpool, behind Sterling in the pecking order.

 

It's highly unlikely the results would be any different if Lallana was playing yesterday, he hardly lit up the game when he did rock up.

[sandwichsaint]

Just when you think things cannot get worse wit England invariably of course they do. Still the lads had a lovely holiday in Brazil which is about as much as most of them seem to go out there for. There are no penalties for failure at international level so the WGAF attitude amongst this lot will continue to prevail. No longer is it worth arguing about detail there is something rotten about English football which we seem incapable of understanding let alone correcting. E can have no confidence at all that a so-called root and brach overall of the whole FA shebang would come up with anything better. Especially as Spain are also showing signs of turning up only to sign on. Methinks international football is dead in the water, now replaced by the true internationalism of the European Cup & Top European Leagues teams. Good job for Eufa quotas otherwise all the top PL teams would be devoid of England players.

 

Don't fret if you'd rather watch Chile & Mexico you soon will be as a team near you.

 

I wouldn't be so sure, agree the big money and the big TV is mainly in the European leagues/Champs league but I think this WC has been an absolute breath of fresh air seeing new players and new teams, what it does show is that there is intelligent life beyond the PL and the CL. Players and fans love the WC, unfortunately it's all overseen by one of the most corrupt and dysfunctional bodies on the planet and it's now all up in the air what we do with Dubai - summer/winter/re-run?

 

Forget England, the PL, and the CL for a couple more weeks and enjoy what we are seeing in Brazil (refs need to tighten up though, ridiculous officiating so far in too many games).

[Wrensup]

Not sure just how Roy (and lots of the armchair football fans) thought that playing a girlfriend beating Jamaican toddler was better than giving Lallana a go.

 

Sound like a bit of a **** there mate. And Sterling wasn't the problem, it was Rooney and Welbeck, Sterling plays well in a CAM position for Liverpool and towards the end of the season he was in the middle more often than on the wings. Also he played well in the centre against Italy. So really it's Roys fault for moving him trying to accomadate Rooney and Welbeck, Lallana should have ahead of one of them I reckons.

[Miltonaggro]

Gerrard will undoubtedly retire from England after this WC, which at least saves Roy from having to have the balls to drop him.

 

Rooney, on the other hand, will continue to cling on in desperation like a massive turd that just won't flush away.

 

As excellent a Rooney analogy as I've heard, sir! Nice one.

[Ruffo]

All the World Cup does or any major award highlights why our top players leave to join 'big' clubs

 

To make the field means you most likely belong to a big club

[Elias]

completely unnecessary. He was cleared of all charges so I suggest you do your homework before making ridiculous statements. He's also English FYI

 

Sterling is a different player to Lallana, and was the type of player we needed last night with Uruguay's full backs. Felt sorry for Sterling, had to adapt his game because nobody would stay in the box for him to cross too. Thought he played ok - not brilliant, but showed flashes he can do it on the world stage and had the right attitude.

 

Agree about Henderson, but who else would we play? A half fit Wilshere?

 

Yep, born in the very English town of Kingston, Jamaica. Sterling does have an unsavoury reputation and footballers get cleared very often in court (Barnard, Gerrard, etc). He wasn't the problem in the game, he tried. He shouldn't have been played in the first place though. Lallana would have made more sense. Welbeck could have given way too.

 

England shouldn't have gone for speed in the game, wasted too much possession. If Roy wanted to play that system he should have known that it works best keeping hold of the ball and probing for weaknesses, not running into blind alleys and gifting the ball away. Maybe the squad should have been picked to find the best team.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Funny how everybody I talk to about England, names players that should be playing and funny enough they all come from the team they support. Clyne was kept out by a 19 year old in his debut season and jack cork is really not good enough. As for JWP, I presume the poster calling for his inclusion is either related or still drunk from last night. Reading this forum the answer to England's 45 year old problem is to pick all the English born players from England's 8th best team.

[Lorne Malvo]

Felt sorry for Sterling, had to adapt his game because nobody would stay in the box for him to cross too.

 

Probably because there were 2 more players to beat more likely.

[Pedro]

I don't particularly like John Terry but he is far better than what we got at the back and being there for corners. I think Suarez would have had a few bruises and possibly slowed down a bit had JT been there. The next generation of centre backs don't bode well for England IMO.

[supersonic]

Yep, born in the very English town of Kingston, Jamaica. Sterling does have an unsavoury reputation and footballers get cleared very often in court (Barnard, Gerrard, etc). He wasn't the problem in the game, he tried. He shouldn't have been played in the first place though. Lallana would have made more sense. Welbeck could have given way too.

 

England shouldn't have gone for speed in the game, wasted too much possession. If Roy wanted to play that system he should have known that it works best keeping hold of the ball and probing for weaknesses, not running into blind alleys and gifting the ball away. Maybe the squad should have been picked to find the best team.

 

What does where he was born have to do with it? he's English. Did you say the same thing about Barnes, Hargreaves, Zaha,Terry Butcher, even Matt Le Tissier and Graeme Le Saux weren't born in England - they're still English.

 

In terms of the court case, he went to court and got cleared of all charges. I'll trust the courts judgement with all the evidence rather than some keyboard warrior who clearly has an agenda against Sterling. I can only think it was your sister, or you don't like people born outside of the UK?

[CB Fry]

Funny how everybody I talk to about England, names players that should be playing and funny enough they all come from the team they support. Clyne was kept out by a 19 year old in his debut season and jack cork is really not good enough. As for JWP, I presume the poster calling for his inclusion is either related or still drunk from last night. Reading this forum the answer to England's 45 year old problem is to pick all the English born players from England's 8th best team.

But, of course, if any of thrse saviours of England are linked to moves to clubs higher up the league then they wouldn't get a game and they'd just sit on the bench.

[Scummer]

Hodgson doesn't seem to know what style of football he wants the team to play. If we are going to play a possession game we need players who are good at working in tight spaces and can thread a pass. What we don't need are pacy attackers. What we've done in both games is hold the ball, the opposition drop back and get organised, meaning that when we get the ball to Sterling, Sturridge etc there's no space left for them to run into and they just get crowded out. Fast players work best in a counter-attacking setup where we break quickly and get the ball forward early.

 

I'm also not sure about this idea that we've got a really young team. Inexperienced perhaps, but I don't think the average age is all that young is it?

[Jez]

I fail to understand why Roy or his assistant were at St. Mary's nearly every week yet when it came to he didn't trust Lallana, Lambert and to a lesser extent Shaw to do the job for him !

 

5 minutes for Rickie and barely half an hour for Lallana whilst Wellbeck and co serve up the same old crap.

 

Indeed. I reckon Baines was about our worst player over the two games - not sure Shaw would/could have done any worse!

[captainchris]

Chastening the way that we haven't progressed in four years. If we play Germany tomorrow, there is no doubt that it would be another 4-1 thrashing, minimum. We still can't receive the ball in a tight situation and we still concede from straight forward punts up the pitch.

 

Annoying the way Roy threatened to do things differently with the likes of Lallana and Barkley, and then bottled it when it came to the crunch.

 

For me, after the World Cup, it's time for Gerrard to call it a day - ho doesn't impact games anymore. Welbeck and Johnson need to be dropped.

 

Lallana needs to start ahead of Welbeck, Barkley into the centre in place of Gerrard.

 

Clyne into the squad and probably first choice at RB, Shaw should be brought in ahead of Baines as LB as for me, as much as i like the way he wants to play, he doesn't have the legs to do it at international level.

 

The holding midfield role is a tough call - don't think that is particularly Henderson's role, but i'm not going to go mad and suggest Cork should walk in there.

 

We have a relatively straightforward Euro qualifier group - it's time to make the right decisions and build a team up that plays international football.

A lot of sense in this post. However you did leave Rooney out of your changes.... Rooney has been pretty dreadful now for a couple of years both in the England team and for his club. He is immobile and can't even control the ball when it's passed to him... His time is over too...

For Woy to pick the same team again after Italy was clearly a really por decision. ( yes. I know we played Rooney in the middle this time). We were not that good against Italy for. Christ sake!

While Im at it the complete media cocktail party over Sterling is mental. He runs around in circles up blind alleys with no end product!

Put someone in charge who can really rocognise the problems, and players who are actually good enough. Someone who will not let the media love in brigade pick the team!

My man is Hoddle who has been the only pundit to talk about the structure of the matches and talk sense about the personnel.

[Elias]

What does where he was born have to do with it? he's English. Did you say the same thing about Barnes, Hargreaves, Zaha,Terry Butcher, even Matt Le Tissier and Graeme Le Saux weren't born in England - they're still English.

 

In terms of the court case, he went to court and got cleared of all charges. I'll trust the courts judgement with all the evidence rather than some keyboard warrior who clearly has an agenda against Sterling. I can only think it was your sister, or you don't like people born outside of the UK?

 

 

I do like people born outside of the UK. Many offer a lot of positive qualities to Britain. Doesn't make them English though necessarily. Anyone regardless of creed or colour if born in England is English. A diverse and representative English team is a good thing.

 

Hargreaves was the most blatant poach of the lot, never even lived in England. Channel Islanders have little choice but to play for England.

 

Nice of you to bring family into this, real classy.

[Wrensup]

What I never understand is in 4-2-3-1 the 2 are ment to be defensive and tacklers yes?

Then why do we play Henderson and Gerrard, who both can't defend or tackle well.

Best two english Defensive midfielders I would say were Barry and Cork last season, I would have liked to see them in the team as they can actually do the job they're ment to do!

And people who are saying Barkley or Wilshire are Gerrard's succussor are wrong because they should be in the '3' not the '2' of the midfield.

Edited 20 June, 2014 by Wrensup

[corky morris]

Just proves to me that English players are nowhere near as good as they think they are!

We couldn't keep the ball.

That said, the centre half should have been sent off.

[stthrobber]

I think England played some pretty pedestrian football which mirrored the personality of the coach, Hodgson.

 

He took our 3 Saints players and used them extensively in warm up matches, then barely bothered with them in the tournament, giving them cameo roles when it was too late for them to have any effect.

 

It bothers me greatly that our team was littered with players like Jagielka, Baines, Johnson, Wilshere, Welbeck, Henderson and to a certain extent, Sturridge. The latter may yet develop into a very good international level striker, but at the moment, he is still young and quite raw.

 

I think the rest of them are pedestrian at best and I wonder how much difference it would have made if we had the same players under a different coach?

 

Sterling is still developing as is Barkley, who needs to learn to be more creative, ie pass the bleedin' ball occasionally.

 

What worries me is that the best players available to Hodgson last night are simply not good enough at this level, and we should be looking at clubs like Manchester City, Arsenal and Chelsea in particular who seem to buy in and fill their teams with foreign players, but don't seem to bring the best English and British players through enough. OK Arsenal have Walcott and the Ox, and we know where they came from, but I think it was Didi Hamann who said that in Britain, we ignore our British youth players because we automatically assume that the foreign players are better.

 

The Premier League is full of foreign coaches because they are better than our home grown ones, and the foreign players, rather than helping us develop the skills of our youngsters, are keeping them out of their teams and that is ultimately to the detriment of England and Scotland because our "best" players don't get regular football at the top clubs.

 

The only club that seems to buck the trend is us, and when Hodgson had the chance to use our players, he put in Welbeck instead of Lallana, and I've yet to see Welbeck do anything for England that shows me he is good enough

[Mallagroth]

Gerrard shocking, so much so that I wonder whether he is picking up winnings this morning. Baines at fault (in part) for all goals scored against us in this tournament. Rooney is carried so we are playing like a team with a man down. Hodgson like so many before him picked the team that brings the most guaranteed marketing revenue in rather than the team that can work together and win, why bother with the friendlies if you are only going to go and play Heskey (this year Welbeck or Rooney) anyway.

[supersonic]

I do like people born outside of the UK. Many offer a lot of positive qualities to Britain. Doesn't make them English though necessarily. Anyone regardless of creed or colour if born in England is English. A diverse and representative English team is a good thing.

 

Hargreaves was the most blatant poach of the lot, never even lived in England. Channel Islanders have little choice but to play for England.

 

Nice of you to bring family into this, real classy.

 

Channel Islanders can play for any of the home nations. Why bring up where Sterling was born if it makes no difference?