England v Uruguay

[FloridaMarlin]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

[SarniaSaint]

Didn't expect that LOLZ

[GAS]

Roy seemed to pick a team of holding midfielders and runners who he thought could get at the aging Uruguay defence. Problem was that none of the midfielders could actually control the ball or play a telling pass. Easy to defend against a player who takes to many touches or is just inept. We believed that Suarez was first unfit and they had nobody in the team good enough to get him the ball. Well there was cavanni and gerard. Childs play.

[DuncanRG]

Lampard and Gerrard in the same squad, or even in the squad, is not forward thinking - and as for Glenn Johnson.....he is the one player that makes me still optimistic of a call up.

 

I'll give you Lampard, but would you honestly have left out Gerrard or Johnson considering the alternatives?

 

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Don't buy this at all. Gerrard's just had one of his best ever seasons for Liverpool playing deep, but England don't play the system that enables him to do what he did best for them. For Liverpool he's thrived as the sole deep midfielder dictating the tempo with two team mates giving the legs and dropping back from time to time. That more than covered his lack of energy, even in the fast-paced PL, because he could use his passing to help the tempo. Quite similar to what Pirlo does for Italy, actually. But England play with a flat two and it just doesn't work. Some elements of the old Lampard/Gerrard mismatch in there.

 

Next tournament, whether it's Hodgson or not, we need to get away from a flat midfield two or four.

Edited 19 June, 2014 by DuncanRG

[Batman]

I'll give you Lampard, but would you honestly have left out Gerrard or Johnson considering the alternatives?

 

Johnson is probably not even the best right back at Liverpool

 

Players like welbeck, smalling... Jesus

At least smalling got no where near the pitch.

 

At least cleverly was not there. But it took him to be very very bad to be dropped to the standby list

[shurlock]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Spot on.

[Graffito]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Gerrard and Henderson did well for Liverpool this season. Not good tonight for England. Who would you replace Gerrard with for England?

[Katalinic]

I'll give you Lampard, but would you honestly have left out Gerrard or Johnson considering the alternatives?

 

 

 

Don't buy this at all. Gerrard's just had one of his best ever seasons for Liverpool playing deep, but England don't play the system that enables him to do what he did best for them.

 

Honestly, yes. I know that this might seem like it is with the benefit of hindsight but Johnson is Liverpool's weakest link by a mile, let alone England's and Gerrard's legs went the season before last although I know where you are coming from ref. systems - Pirlo's legs have also gone but he is brilliant in the role he is being asked to do.

[Graffito]

Honestly, yes. I know that this might seem like it is with the benefit of hindsight but Johnson is Liverpool's weakest link by a mile, let alone England's and Gerrard's legs went the season before last although I know where you are coming from ref. systems - Pirlo's legs have also gone but he is brilliant in the role he is being asked to do.

 

I saw no evidence that Pirlo's legs have gone. He's always left the leg work to others.

[Viking Warrior]

I thought Johnson was also at fault for the first Italian goal as well

Gerard can't stand him as a player and I now know why .

[aintforever]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

I disagree, I think where we are is the limit to England's ability, Roy has done an OK job.

[Viking Warrior]

I wonder what that game did for Adam llallanas confidence tonight

[redder freak]

Some Liverpool fans must be pleased. Their striker done good. That match showed why they had a good season last time. I wonder whether they'll manage to keep him again. Or will a bigger club come in for him? If Suarez leaves, we'll find out whether or not they were essentially a one man team. Roll on next season. COYRs!

[Lord Duckhunter]

Woy got carried away with liverpools season and the way their English players played this season. Forgetting that Suarez was the main reason for their sucsess, he went against his 30 years of managing and tried to turn himself into a different sort of manager.

 

We should of sat in against Italy and again today and been hard to beat, instead of that we were ****ing easy to beat. Unlike others on here I do think you can play Gerrard and Henderson but not as a central 2, play as a 3 . The only way you can be as open as we were is if you've got world class defenders, we have **** poor defenders that can only get by with plenty of protection. We should have played a 4-3-3 becoming a 4-5-1 when they had the ball. Why we persist with this "number 10" nonsense when we haven't got a world class 10 I dont know.

 

Sven would have had us sat in , probably got 2 draws and then onto beat Costa Rica to go through. Boring maybe, but the result is the be all and end all of everything. We have not got the players or the brains to blow away top teams. Cole should have been there, lallana instead of rooney and id have even played that scapegoat Milner to tighten up the midfield. I thought Roy got caught between 2 stools this campaign , he wasn't given the job because he was an attack minded free flowing type of guy. He got where he is by being organised and difficult to break down, why he decided to try and be something hr wasn't god only knows

 

Anyone who thinks we were unlucky tonight is deluding themselves.

[Rasiak-9-]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Holy mackerel is that head and shoulders the best post I've seen on any football forum in a long time. Absolutely bang on and wonderfully articulated.

 

Amen sir.

[Saint86]

This has zip all to do with ability of players, and everything to do with tactics and developing an effective system with what you have.

 

Every manager has failed at this since Hoddle and laughably Venables before him.

 

The FA and England set up are dinosaurs, and pick the same stagnant rubbish over and over again, promoting from within from the same stagnant train of thought.

 

The nonsense about youth development being dead in england is acting like one big smoke screen and distraction, they are pouring all their efforts into solving the lack of good youth systems and not addressing the major issue that they can't pick an exciting and forward thinking manager, nor can they pick players based on merit and not ego and reputation.

 

the result is stale, stagnant and predictable football that has seen our nation game go backwards for nearly 20years relative to everyone from Spain to Chile or even Australia.

 

Big change is needed (but will never come) right at the top, and on the nation psyche of the English game - which recently is hard to actually recognise as a style of play.

 

That is my 2 sense worth at least

 

What I did tonight, was compare how terrible England were to how attacking and dangerous we were under pochettino, we never really looked like scoring and all our chances were half chances, Uruguay carved us open a couple of times, and duly punished us with a half fit striker.

 

England haven't played a style of game they were comfortable with since 1998.

 

If people think we are going to beat Costa Rica I can only ask to have some of what you were smoking.

 

They are a fresh and exuberant side who will likely need to achieve just a point against us, with nothing to prove. Their players aren't world class, nor think they are, but they have an effective system with a lot of energy. We will have our work cut out to gain some pride, and if we do somehow win, we'll pay outselves on the back and say its a young team learning... its not... the only kid in that england team was frigging sterling. The rest was the same old usual bollarks.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Woy got carried away with liverpools season and the way their English players played this season. Forgetting that Suarez was the main reason for their sucsess, he went against his 30 years of managing and tried to turn himself into a different sort of manager.

 

We should of sat in against Italy and again today and been hard to beat, instead of that we were ****ing easy to beat. Unlike others on here I do think you can play Gerrard and Henderson but not as a central 2, play as a 3 . The only way you can be as open as we were is if you've got world class defenders, we have **** poor defenders that can only get by with plenty of protection. We should have played a 4-3-3 becoming a 4-5-1 when they had the ball. Why we persist with this "number 10" nonsense when we haven't got a world class 10 I dont know.

 

Sven would have had us sat in , probably got 2 draws and then onto beat Costa Rica to go through. Boring maybe, but the result is the be all and end all of everything. We have not got the players or the brains to blow away top teams. Cole should have been there, lallana instead of rooney and id have even played that scapegoat Milner to tighten up the midfield. I thought Roy got caught between 2 stools this campaign , he wasn't given the job because he was an attack minded free flowing type of guy. He got where he is by being organised and difficult to break down, why he decided to try and be something hr wasn't god only knows

 

Anyone who thinks we were unlucky tonight is deluding themselves.

 

Agree with pretty much all of this. Plus the fact that Woy chose who he thought were his best player, instead of his best team.

[mightysaints]

Gerald was ****e for both games.

 

 

Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

[Wade Garrett]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Absolutely spot on. While everyone in the pub was moaning about Jagielka, and the three men around the bloke who crossed for Uruguay's first goal, I was apoplectic with rage at Gerrard's powder puff challenge in the middle of the park that preceded that.

[Rasiak-9-]

Did you watch Chile yesterday?

 

Word. That was a team with two players who'll be playing in the Championship at centre-half and they've kept a clean sheet against the World Champions.

[Wade Garrett]

Gerrard and Henderson did well for Liverpool this season. Not good tonight for England. Who would you replace Gerrard with for England?

 

Jack Cork. We have 2 centre midfielders that aren't ball winners.

[igsey]

The sooner everybody, especially the media, stops comparing Gerrard to Pirlo the better. Gerrard can try all he like, but he's not at the same level as Pirlo, and it's time for him to hang up his England boots, and if he could take Mr. Hodgson with him on his way out, that would be great.

[suewhistle]

Just in from a social club, and thank gawd for the anaesthetic properties of Summer Lightening. Where to start? We were dire, in every phase of the game. Appalling defence, marking and tackling; absolutely dire passing, and where was the movement? As for speed of thought.. was there any anticipation from the player receiving the ball.The only decent player from Liverpool's contingent played for them.

 

I _will_ watch the Costa Rica game, but I think I'll really look forward to seeing my club side next season, and I so, so hope we win the first match of the season...

[Red]

Johnson is probably not even the best right back at Liverpool

 

Players like welbeck, smalling... Jesus

At least smalling got no where near the pitch.

 

At least cleverly was not there. But it took him to be very very bad to be dropped to the standby list

 

What game were you watching? Must have been a different one to me! Yes it was a very poor England performance but within that Johnson was England MoM for me - only one who did not make a mistake, went forward at every opportunity and bravely set up the goal. If only Baines had done the same.

 

I believe we have much better right backs, and did not agree with him being selected for the world cup squad, but in all fairness, Johnson is the very last player you can blame for today's defeat - either that or I have completely lost the plot :-)

[ericofarabia]

I'm mildly surprised that I really don't care.

 

In a way I guess I should be glad about all the crap surrounding lallana / shaw / lovren etc and the departure of SRL and Mopo.......... up until a few weeks ago I was looking forward to this World Cup like no other since 1970!!

 

I felt virtually zilch when AL came on as sub either game, as it was a sh!te decision both times, as was the Barkley one both times. Needing goals and Woy brings on midfielders each game. 3 mins for SRL .... what a bloody insult, but at least he eat Wheelchair to 3rd spot this time!!

 

Welbeck Henderson and Johnson would have been hard pushed to make the Saints subs bench and Gerrard would have been making HT tea.

 

SFC first .... England a distant 2nd.

[suewhistle]

SFC first .... England a distant 2nd.

 

Even more so than usual, I'd say. I'd agree with Red above that Johnson played well though...

[captainchris]

Honestly, yes. I know that this might seem like it is with the benefit of hindsight but Johnson is Liverpool's weakest link by a mile, let alone England's and Gerrard's legs went the season before last although I know where you are coming from ref. systems - Pirlo's legs have also gone but he is brilliant in the role he is being asked to do.

 

'Football People' need to wake up and smell the coffee. The do called experts all cozy round eachother and agree with each other whilst missing completely the detail ....

For the first goal Johnson was at fault for listing his man and then not closing him down . Two glaring mistakes. This allowed the left sided Uruguay player to cross into Suarez for the first goal. Johnson is clearly not good enough at this level, however because he plays for Liverpool that does not matter!

Henderson is at the very very best ordinary. Sterling was actually poor against Italy but his performance was completely over hyped. He runs into blind alleys continuously and has little end product. Welbeck has little football brain and whilst he is not as bad as those previously mentioned he is not able to make things happen at this level. Rooney is past it. Been living in hype for a couple of years now!

We need people who are able to see a game intimately not in a populist way but honestly and objectively with an

open mind that is not clouded by big reputations and which clubs they belong to.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The cosy buddy buddy analysis from the "experts" is a bloody joke. You can have expros on, but they need to say it how it is. They do in cricket, boycs in particular. He'd have laid into Hart informing the viewers that his mum could have saved the second with a stick of rhubarb . All this "unlucky" and "they did well", no wonder they think they're world class.

[Jack]

Masters of Failure. I just think we've got some very unintelligent players. We got in some good positions at times then made bad decisions at crucial times. Obviously defensive errors was our ultimate downfall.

[BadgerBadger]

time for a shake up of how the FA runs the show from grass roots upwards

[tobes8]

I thought Johnson was also at fault for the first Italian goal as well

Gerard can't stand him as a player and I now know why .

 

Personally i thought baines went to sleep, from his position he should have seen that cahill was one on one against suarez but he just stopped.

[wild-saint]

i was thinking of of team made up of players that didnt start or get picked in the squad that would beat the current england starting 11 and have damn decent chance of qualifying out of that group and came up with the following -

 

Ruddy

 

clyne terry shawcross shaw

cork wilshire

 

ward-prowse lallana jay rod

lambert

 

 

i know a couple had injuries but it really isnt rocket science. the key is mobility in midfield, pace out wide at full back, strength and defensive nowse at centre back and decent technique in your front four. yes its saints biased but the point is that it goes to show that thier are players out there who could play the system we adopted stt his world cup if you get over the ingrained problem we have of the press picking the team.

[Andy Durman]

Well he ain't no Jack Cork.........

 

This, This and This

 

Jack Cork must be in the next England squad. The thing jack brings is tempo. So often we walked the ball around.

 

England need to play with far more urgency and take the game to them.

[CB Fry]

i was thinking of of team made up of players that didnt start or get picked in the squad that would beat the current england starting 11 and have damn decent chance of qualifying out of that group and came up with the following -

 

Ruddy

 

clyne terry shawcross shaw

cork wilshire

 

ward-prowse lallana jay rod

lambert

 

 

i know a couple had injuries but it really isnt rocket science. the key is mobility in midfield, pace out wide at full back, strength and defensive nowse at centre back and decent technique in your front four. yes its saints biased but the point is that it goes to show that thier are players out there who could play the system we adopted stt his world cup if you get over the ingrained problem we have of the press picking the team.

 

This, This and This

 

Jack Cork must be in the next England squad. The thing jack brings is tempo. So often we walked the ball around.

 

England need to play with far more urgency and take the game to them.

If only a load of Saints players played instead everything would be fine.

 

James Ward-Prowse? FFS.

[John Boy Saint]

I blame Greg Dyke he said we would win nowt before 2022 and the. In the draw running his finger across his throat so that gave the players a lazy easy out.

[Jack]

i was thinking of of team made up of players that didnt start or get picked in the squad that would beat the current england starting 11 and have damn decent chance of qualifying out of that group and came up with the following -

 

Ruddy

 

clyne terry shawcross shaw

cork wilshire

 

ward-prowse lallana jay rod

lambert

 

 

i know a couple had injuries but it really isnt rocket science. the key is mobility in midfield, pace out wide at full back, strength and defensive nowse at centre back and decent technique in your front four. yes its saints biased but the point is that it goes to show that thier are players out there who could play the system we adopted stt his world cup if you get over the ingrained problem we have of the press picking the team.

 

You lost me at Shawcross. He's a million miles away from being international standard. Ditto JWP at the moment but he's got time on his side.

 

I think maybe it would've been a different story if we had had John Terry in for Jagielka. Yes he's old, and a c*nt, but he's much better than Jagielka and had a decent understanding with Cahill last season.

[CB Fry]

Woy got carried away with liverpools season and the way their English players played this season. Forgetting that Suarez was the main reason for their sucsess, he went against his 30 years of managing and tried to turn himself into a different sort of manager.

 

We should of sat in against Italy and again today and been hard to beat, instead of that we were ****ing easy to beat. Unlike others on here I do think you can play Gerrard and Henderson but not as a central 2, play as a 3 . The only way you can be as open as we were is if you've got world class defenders, we have **** poor defenders that can only get by with plenty of protection. We should have played a 4-3-3 becoming a 4-5-1 when they had the ball. Why we persist with this "number 10" nonsense when we haven't got a world class 10 I dont know.

 

Sven would have had us sat in , probably got 2 draws and then onto beat Costa Rica to go through. Boring maybe, but the result is the be all and end all of everything. We have not got the players or the brains to blow away top teams. Cole should have been there, lallana instead of rooney and id have even played that scapegoat Milner to tighten up the midfield. I thought Roy got caught between 2 stools this campaign , he wasn't given the job because he was an attack minded free flowing type of guy. He got where he is by being organised and difficult to break down, why he decided to try and be something hr wasn't god only knows

 

Anyone who thinks we were unlucky tonight is deluding themselves.

This is a good post.

 

Roy got carried away with the "play all our young wonderkids" calls, when really we should have played the most boring team imaginable and tried to grind it out, especially against Italy.

 

Italy gave us space to play and we flattered to deceive. Uruguay didn't let us knock it about and we went to pieces.

 

I feel sorry for Roy, but I think he got suckered into picking a team that The Sun wanted, rather than his own better judgement. Lashings of hindsight of course: Roy would have been slaughtered if Italy beat a "boring" England.

 

He'll probably quit now, but I would be happy if he didn't.

[Cabrone]

Been watching England in their last 9 world cups and it's always the same script, fans gnash their teeth over penalties, unlucky free kicks, sendings off, dodgy goal line decisions, bad ref decisions, formations etc etc but the real truth is England just aren't good enough and never have been.

 

We don't pass the ball quick enough, we don't close down quick enough, we have always been suspect to defensive lapses and we have always lacked a top quality striker - yes we've had good strikers but never a Suarez. Rooney needs a load of chances to convert, Suarez needs 1.

 

Unlike 2010 at least the team gave it their best but it's not good enough to trouble any of the top teams.

 

For a country that has one of the, if not the most moneyed leagues on the planet you'd have thought we could produce players that can really compete but we never can, are they coached to death? Are young English players being pushed aside for cheaper imports or are we for some reason simply unable to find players that can really do it?

 

Sometimes I wonder if we shouldn't just merge England, Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland to team UK to see if we had a better chance.

 

At the moment there is only 1 genuine world class player of British origin and he's Welsh and will never play in a world cup as it is. He's the kind of player that could have made a difference last night but he's probably sitting on a beach somewhere.

[Professor]

Some extremely good observant and incisive posts here. Hodgson, or his successor, could do worse than read this page of the forum, seriously well set out constructive comment.

[david in sweden]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

 

well said Florida Marlin, it saved me writing a few extra paragraphs.

 

Roy tried and failed, but Gerrard has looked out-of-sorts for a while now. (May sound harsh, but he indiredtly lost Liverpool the Prem. title in the Anfield game v. Chelsea).

 

Henderson was almost invisible. Stood around in midfield waiting for the ball to come his way, and fearing the inevitable crunching tackle, and Barkley was no better.

 

Last night, we saw the difference between a Liverpool side playing with Suarez, and a Liverpool side playing against him.

Sturridge and Sterling look good in the L'pool side when he's there, but they looked like rabbits caught in the headlights, without him in their side especially when Uruguayans tackled hard.

 

I thought the Spanish ref. was a disgrace. Had that been a Prem. game with even an average ref.... Uruguay would have finished with 7 men on the field.

[rooney]

This, This and This

 

Jack Cork must be in the next England squad. The thing jack brings is tempo. So often we walked the ball around.

 

England need to play with far more urgency and take the game to them.

How anyone can play Henderson instead of Jack Cork is beyond me. Jack has played International Football (under 21's et al) and was of course in the GB squad for the Olympics.

[Smirking_Saint]

Changed your tune on Gerrard quite a bit. Otherwise agree with what you've written.

 

I have in an England sense, its difficult as passing wise he is still Englands best midfielder, but playing him in just a bank of two and still allowing the FBs to bomb on was suicide. Others have said aswell as me, to accomodate him (which I would do too) would be to play him in a bank of three, we didnt.. The team was ultimately disjointed and midfield overrun

[alpine_saint]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Agree with all this, as I said after the first game, where i also commented that Jack Cork would have done better than Gerrard if we really needed this role.

 

Also agree with the comment that why the F**k did Woy more or less set up a Greenham Common Peace camp at SMS and then not actually use the players and tactics that he saw that would have served him a helluva lot better than the p*ss-poor fare he served up.

 

The England team will always be dominated and handicapped by FA politics.

[alpine_saint]

well said Florida Marlin

 

Last night, we saw the difference between a Liverpool side playing with Suarez, and a Liverpool side playing against him.

 

Which means however much they try to loot us, they are f**ked next season if he ups sticks and goes to Real.

 

Suarez may be thinking after last night that he has made his point and its time to move on away from a team of chokers.

[Smirking_Saint]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Thats a pretty good analysis, though as I said playing Gerrar is a gamble Id have taken though you would have needed to either use defensive minded FBs or employ 3 in the middle. How Hodgson missed that I dont know. It can work with two there by the way, but that would mean Henderson would have to be an exceptional midfielder covering around everywhere (think schneiderlin) and he simply isnt.

 

As for the two goals blaming gerrard is a bit OTT, he had involvement, but it depends how far you go to look for blame. Essentially the first was a combination of Johnson failing to close down, cahill getting drawn in and I dont really know what jagielka was doing. The second was essentially poor positioning from Jagielka, whether he was overconfident that Gerrard would win it or what I dont know, he half followed Cavani and was lost.

[trousers]

We'll lose to Uruguay; Italy will beat Costa Rica. Then Italy will beat Uruguay and we'll beat Costa Rica and go through on goal difference.

What could possibly go wrong....?

All going to plan so far....

[alpine_saint]

All going to plan so far....

 

I'd rather we went out, because Colombia will muller us in the second round.

[wildsaint]

If only a load of Saints players played instead everything would be fine.

 

James Ward-Prowse? FFS.

 

I think the point you are missing that football is a team game with the emphasis on TEAM. Selecting a group of players from saints that have played / trained together as a team would in my opinion get a better result out of the last two England games than we witnessed.

 

im not suggesting that the 11 players would be my starting 11 just trying to provoke some thought to what an England side could achieve with players outside the standard England picks.

 

Clearly if I was selecting a first choice starting 11 a number of the starting 11 would feature but maybe not as many as were on show last night. Yes Ward-prowse wouldn't in reality be anywhere close to a strong first 11. my point is a strong team ethic is more important than picking your best 11 players.

 

how many players in other weaker teams than England have performed better through team spirit and togetherness of a squad?

[Batman]

Stuart Pearce is saying on the radio. We simply do not use the U21s enough.

 

When you look at Germany Portugal, holland, spain etc, they use the u21s miles better

 

Would shaw learn more going to Brazil sightseeing or playing all the games at the Toulon tournament??

 

 

Either way, it's time to make big changes at the FA/England team.

[Miltonaggro]

As i said after the Italy game, Hodgson's big problem is that he has nailed his colours firmly to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy and doesn't know how to get out of it.

 

England's whole system is based around picking Gerrard in the deep-lying role in which he has supposedly re-invented himself. Of course, he re-invented himself after Pirlo tore him a new one in the Euros two years ago and he realised his legs had gone.

 

Picking Gerrard in that role means you have to have a minder to do his leg work for him, in this case Henderson.

 

Not only can Gerrard not get up and down the pitch, as I said in the Italy aftermath, he struggles to get across it. That means in a similar formation to Saints, if the full-backs push on, there are inevitably gaps behind them that Gerrard can't cover.

 

Two things he failed to do tonight cost England goals. He missed a tackle in the first half, and missed the header in the second.

 

For whatever reason, Hodgson believed the hype about Gerrard re-inventing himself and being England's version of Pirlo and picked a team to fit in around him.

 

And when a strong personality like Gerrard knows he's being pandered to, he'll exploit it and he exerts an undue influence over Hodgson.

 

That team for the first two England game was as much Gerrard's team as Hodgson's.

 

Spot on Florida!