The Echo - how much lower can they stoop?

[Fitzhugh Fella]

An hour after the Mail's Neil Ashton reported Lovren had e mailed a transfer request, the Echo jumped on the story and claimed they had spoken to someone close to DJ and it was true he had asked to leave. So I would like to ask, why didn't they break this story, yesterday, why did they wait until the Mail went public before leaping on the bandwagon?

 

It seems to me the Echo will do anything these days to try an get attention (or sales) and they don't really care if what they print is destructive. Just recently I stopped "getting" the Echo delivered to end a family tradition that goes back 100 years. They do still have some good journalists (Gordon Simpson I have massive respect for) but it seems others will whore themselves out to print anything that grabs headlines and attention and don't really care if it is factual or not. There is no integrity left at the Echo and the way they have salivated over any tittle tattle transfer talk they pick up on forums or twitter or whatever is just, frankly transparently pathetic.

 

They to me are down in the gutter with the Sun and the Mail - full of unbelievable crap. What a shame a large swathe of people living within the Echo distribution area still actually respect a paper that lost its way a long time ago. My Dad often says to me "but the Echo says" and I have to reply "they get it all off this forum Dad, they know nothing". He grew up in the 40s when the Echo was a serious newspaper.

[Batman]

what do you suggest? ban them?

[SO16_Saint]

Who actually buys The Echo (or any newspaper) these days?

[Colinjb]

It is an obsolete medium propped up by those who still trust it. (The older folks who know no better, like my Dad.)

[Wade Garrett]

Don't buy it, don't even look at it online. Used to, before it descended into total crap.

[SaintRobbie]

I'm with Fitz on this.

 

Very lazy. And very disappointing.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

what do you suggest? ban them?

 

No I would just like to be able to trust or accept a local newspaper had integrity ie I could sort of believe what they print had an element of truth. Is that too much to expect?

[Batman]

No I would just like to be able to trust or accept a local newspaper had integrity ie I could sort of believe what they print had an element of truth. Is that too much to expect?

they have been like this for years

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Who actually buys The Echo (or any newspaper) these days?

 

I do, sorry old habits. I get the Guardian and Observer but am becoming increasingly even they put agenda before facts. I still maintain the printed press have a big role to play.

[The Kraken]

No I would just like to be able to trust or accept a local newspaper had integrity ie I could sort of believe what they print had an element of truth. Is that too much to expect?

 

Which part of what they printed was made up?

[Viking Warrior]

Totally agree with your post Duncan . It used to be an excellent local paper with good honest and accurate reporting .

It's a shame graham Hiley is not still around but I guess he would glad he's no longer associated with its gutter press style journalism

[dubai_phil]

I do, sorry old habits. I get the Guardian and Observer but am becoming increasingly even they put agenda before facts. I still maintain the printed press have a big role to play.

 

Consider yourself VERY VERY lucky.

 

We have 7Days and The National and Gulf News.

 

At least you get to read papers that contain POLITICAL OPINIONS

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Which part of what they printed was made up?

 

Lovren had put in a transfer request? Maybe it was true but the timing of their story coming an hour after the Mails publication makes me think the Echo are perfecting bandwagon jumping with no morals to the actual truth.

[CB Saint]

The echo stopped printed genuine local news and stared with all the salacious carp about 15 years ago. Grubby little rag.

[Batman]

Lovren had put in a transfer request? Maybe it was true but the timing of their story coming an hour after the Mails publication makes me think the Echo are perfecting bandwagon jumping with no morals to the actual truth.

 

are they not allowed to bring local news to local people?

not everyone buys the mail

 

maybe it was the timing of the les reed video that should be viewed as suspect. maybe they knew this story would break today

Edited 11 June, 2014 by Batman

[Viking Warrior]

Duncan . What's Adam blackmores take on the echo /mail story re lovern

 

I know we had a spat the other day and judging by what you were saying he is a reliable and decent journalist re saints and I more than willing to eat a bit of humble pie re my Adam comments

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Totally agree with your post Duncan . It used to be an excellent local paper with good honest and accurate reporting .

It's a shame graham Hiley is not still around but I guess he would glad he's no longer associated with its gutter press style journalism

 

Yes but then Graham later left Saints because he no longer stand being told what to write by Lowe. He has found his true niche at Solent Uni although last time we spoke he was still coming to terms with how students conduct themselves.

[The Kraken]

Lovren had put in a transfer request? Maybe it was true but the timing of their story coming an hour after the Mails publication makes me think the Echo are perfecting bandwagon jumping with no morals to the actual truth.

What would you rather they had done? Ignored it? Tried to put a positive-only spin?

 

I get a bit lost when people criticise the Echo and other media for actually responding to and reporting the news. Does it really matter if they didn't break the story? They're hardly an investigative unit, they're a small local paper with limited but sometimes decent resource.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Duncan . What's Adam blackmores take on the echo /mail story re lovern

 

I know we had a spat the other day and judging by what you were saying he is a reliable and decent journalist re saints and I more than willing to eat a bit of humble pie re my Adam comments

 

 

Yet to comment which hopefully means he is at least investigating rather than Echo like repeating **** garnered off the web!

[Viking Warrior]

CB I thought it was early nineties that they went if the rails I thought it was about the time and I think when they moved to the news quest group or whoever it was . I think it was when Murray or what ever his name was the editor

[Viking Warrior]

Thanks for your response Duncan much appreciated

 

Mike

[Pancake]

What would you rather they had done? Ignored it? Tried to put a positive-only spin?

 

I believe the point was, that all they have done is vomit up a facsimile of the Mail article with a claim that they have a source close to Lovren. If that's the case, why didn't the break the story?

 

It's just sloppy churnalism. Not asking for positive spin at all, just proper research into is and not blatant fronting of stories from other agencies without legwork or proof of correctness.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

What would you rather they had done? Ignored it? Tried to put a positive-only spin?

 

I get a bit lost when people criticise the Echo and other media for actually responding to and reporting the news. Does it really matter if they didn't break the story? They're hardly an investigative unit, they're a small local paper with limited but sometimes decent resource.

 

Ignore it unless they had some kosher news? Listen the story might be true but sure as eggs are eggs, the Echo are following rather than leading. This city and this club needs a local paper that reports things as they are, not crap they pick up out of Twitter or this Forum.

[Pedro]

They run a full page feature about the Locks Heath Centre yesterday and the headline library picture was so old that the play park has long gone, Co-op now replaced by Waitrose and there is a Costa newly built on the forecourt, lazy journalism, an up to date photo should have been used. It's time Ian Murray was replaced.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I believe the point was, that all they have done is vomit up a facsimile of the Mail article with a claim that they have a source close to Lovren. If that's the case, why didn't the break the story?

 

It's just sloppy churnalism. Not asking for positive spin at all, just proper research into is and not blatant fronting of stories from other agencies without legwork or proof of correctness.

 

Indeed. good newspapers, honest journalists are vital to our democratic future and at present I feel our local newspaper is letting us down.

[The Kraken]

Ignore it unless they had some kosher news? Listen the story might be true but sure as eggs are eggs, the Echo are following rather than leading. This city and this club needs a local paper that reports things as they are, not crap they pick up out of Twitter or this Forum.

But it's only you that is saying they don't have kosher news. If what they say is true, that they verified the story with a source close to the player, then they need to report it. So they didn't break the story; so what? They'd probably get criticised if they did do that, for printing negative stories and creating instability.

 

They're a simple local paper, but for a branch of Saints fans they simply can't win. Report something, and they get criticised for not breaking a story and/or for printing negative stuff. Don't run the story and they'd get criticised for not being in the loop and being behind the times.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

They run a full page feature about the Locks Heath Centre yesterday and the headline library picture was so old that the play park has long gone, Co-op now replaced by Waitrose and there is a Costa newly built on the forecourt, lazy journalism, an up to date photo should have been used. It's time Ian Murray was replaced.

 

Agree 100 per cent

[The Kraken]

I believe the point was, that all they have done is vomit up a facsimile of the Mail article with a claim that they have a source close to Lovren. If that's the case, why didn't the break the story?

 

It's just sloppy churnalism. Not asking for positive spin at all, just proper research into is and not blatant fronting of stories from other agencies without legwork or proof of correctness.

Again, what difference does it make if they break the story? does that make it more valid? should they only run with stories they break the news on, and ignore others that have already come out?

 

I genuinely don't know what you think the Echo should have done once the story was broken. Instead of turning back time and breaking it themselves.

[Viking Warrior]

Ian Murray has never been pro saints . I know it stems from the Lowe days . And yes I remember why graham left the saints. The Lowe factor telling him what to write

[Viking Warrior]

I agree with you petrol re Ian Murray . Has he really lasted that long .

[Fitzhugh Fella]

But it's only you that is saying they don't have kosher news. If what they say is true, that they verified the story with a source close to the player, then they need to report it. So they didn't break the story; so what? They'd probably get criticised if they did do that, for printing negative stories and creating instability.

 

They're a simple local paper, but for a branch of Saints fans they simply can't win. Report something, and they get criticised for not breaking a story and/or for printing negative stuff. Don't run the story and they'd get criticised for not being in the loop and being behind the times.

 

The Echo are 100% reactive though, that is my point. They react to the Daily's stories and never source their own. They have no idea what the word "proactive" means They are always 24 hours behind what is discussed on here. They are not providing the service a local newspaper should. A good local newspaper should have its local football club in the palm of its hands. The Echo is a rag.

[Goatboy]

Consider yourself VERY VERY lucky.

 

We have 7Days and The National and Gulf News.

 

At least you get to read papers that contain POLITICAL OPINIONS

 

Used to enjoy the Gulf News crossword;)

[buctootim]

Indeed. good newspapers, honest journalists are vital to our democratic future and at present I feel our local newspaper is letting us down.

 

Its not letting us down - its struggling to cut costs and survive. The media world has changed. People have shown they aren't prepared to pay for research and objectivity but instead will go to whatever story has gone viral or appears first on google. You get what you pay for, and people dont want to pay.

[The Kraken]

The Echo are 100% reactive though, that is my point. They react to the Daily's stories and never source their own. They have no idea what the word "proactive" means They are always 24 hours behind what is discussed on here. They are not providing the service a local newspaper should. A good local newspaper should have its local football club in the palm of its hands. The Echo is a rag.

And my point is, so what? They're a small local paper. They have very limited (and dwindling) resources.

 

Seriously, with unrealistic expectations such as your own, and an over-willingness to stick the knife in, they simply can't win. It's also quite funny yet ironic that they're described as 24 hours behind the news yet in the same thread are being criticised for immediately responding to news just released into the public domain.

[saintmatt]

I just wish they'd stop their obsession with starting a new paragraph after every sentence ffs!

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Its not letting us down - its struggling to cut costs and survive. The media world has changed. People have shown they aren't prepared to pay for research and objectivity but instead will go to whatever story has gone viral or appears first on google. You get what you pay for, and people dont want to pay.

 

Fair point

[captainchris]

A poor paper these days with terrible editing. They insist on writing an article which is a total mystery until you get to about half way down it too. A very irritating a childish attempt to keep you reading but actually bored the t--s off you...

Also continually repeat the same stories twice in the same issue ...

Was a tradition in our house for decades - don't buy it now...

[Polaroid Saint]

are they not allowed to bring local news to local people?

not everyone buys the mail

 

maybe it was the timing of the les reed video that should be viewed as suspect. maybe they knew this story would break today

 

[Polaroid Saint]

I just wish they'd stop their obsession with starting a new paragraph after every sentence ffs!

 

This is normal journalese. They are called 'pars' and are used in most day to day reports in most papers and online. Pars is both 'short for paragraph' and itself a 'short paragraph'. Used in PR a lot as well as in journalism.

 

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

[GAS]

And my point is, so what? They're a small local paper. They have very limited (and dwindling) resources.

 

Seriously, with unrealistic expectations such as your own, and an over-willingness to stick the knife in, they simply can't win. It's also quite funny yet ironic that they're described as 24 hours behind the news yet in the same thread are being criticised for immediately responding to news just released into the public domain.

Is it 100% certain that Lovren has put in the transfer request. Isn't that the crux of the matter?

[Jonnyboy]

Consider yourself VERY VERY lucky.

 

We have 7Days and The National and Gulf News.

 

At least you get to read papers that contain POLITICAL OPINIONS

 

What's their page 3 like?

[sadoldgit]

The club have said ignore the Mail the Mirror and the Echo. If he put the request in on 30th May why is it big news now. Someone has an agenda.

[oldskoolsi]

It seems a pretty logical thing for them to do. Another paper breaks a story they didn't know anything about. The Echo Logically then would contact someone in the know to confirm or deny it. The ITK person confirms it so they print it.

[trousers]

It seems a pretty logical thing for them to do. Another paper breaks a story they didn't know anything about. The Echo Logically then would contact someone in the know to confirm or deny it. The ITK person confirms it so they print it.

Yep, that's how it works when in 'reactive mode'. I think FF was simply suggesting that the Echo could be more 'proactive' in seeking these kind of stories from their contacts.

[alpine_saint]

An hour after the Mail's Neil Ashton reported Lovren had e mailed a transfer request, the Echo jumped on the story and claimed they had spoken to someone close to DJ and it was true he had asked to leave. So I would like to ask, why didn't they break this story, yesterday, why did they wait until the Mail went public before leaping on the bandwagon?

 

It seems to me the Echo will do anything these days to try an get attention (or sales) and they don't really care if what they print is destructive. Just recently I stopped "getting" the Echo delivered to end a family tradition that goes back 100 years. They do still have some good journalists (Gordon Simpson I have massive respect for) but it seems others will whore themselves out to print anything that grabs headlines and attention and don't really care if it is factual or not. There is no integrity left at the Echo and the way they have salivated over any tittle tattle transfer talk they pick up on forums or twitter or whatever is just, frankly transparently pathetic.

 

They to me are down in the gutter with the Sun and the Mail - full of unbelievable crap. What a shame a large swathe of people living within the Echo distribution area still actually respect a paper that lost its way a long time ago. My Dad often says to me "but the Echo says" and I have to reply "they get it all off this forum Dad, they know nothing". He grew up in the 40s when the Echo was a serious newspaper.

 

Classic "blame the messenger".

 

NC left, and the new regime arent up to the job of selling a vision and protecting the clubs assets.

 

Be careful what you wish for - you may get it. Hope you and the NC haters are very happy; at least we might be playing in stripes again soon - if we have a kit supplier...

[CB Fry]

Classic "blame the messenger".

 

NC left, and the new regime arent up to the job of selling a vision and protecting the clubs assets.

 

Be careful what you wish for - you may get it. Hope you and the NC haters are very happy; at least we might be playing in stripes again soon - if we have a kit supplier...

Get your Alpine bingo cards out.

 

200th sneering reference to having stripes back.

 

Eyes down.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Alpine, I only blame the messenger when the message is deemed to be A) unreliable, B) timed to deliberately cause trouble or unrest and C) is second hand

Always said over the last 5 years with Cortese at the helm, it would end in tears

[Saint Fan CaM]

Its not letting us down - its struggling to cut costs and survive. The media world has changed. People have shown they aren't prepared to pay for research and objectivity but instead will go to whatever story has gone viral or appears first on google. You get what you pay for, and people dont want to pay.

 

Yes absolutely this. Although a small percentage of people will pay for extreme tittle tattle and dirt. Keeps the Sun in business.

[OldNick]

Why the attack on the Echo Duncan. I assume they are not being very conducive to publicising your book. The Echo can only get access if the club decide they want to. I assume they will only publish player unrest after I has been made public, I doubt they are wishing to publish anything that would upset the club if they want to get back in favour. A very difficult dilemma for them Iwould think.

[scotty]

Its not letting us down - its struggling to cut costs and survive. The media world has changed. People have shown they aren't prepared to pay for research and objectivity but instead will go to whatever story has gone viral or appears first on google. You get what you pay for, and people dont want to pay.

 

This, absolutely. They are operating in an obsolete medium. How they can afford to pay journos at all is beyond me, its no wonder they cull their "news" from free sources. I still advertise my business in a few papers, (not the echo, I worked out years ago that was money down the drain,) but nowadays even the ones that used to be worth advertising in are becoming less and less worthwhile.