England v Italy

[lloydie]

If wilshire got injured today and ruled out of the world cup i wouldnt loose a minutes sleep. Such a non-entity as a footballer and made out of glass. Seeing him come on was frustrating as hell!

[mcjwills]

My 1 p's worth, The youngsters played well, Baines was badly let down by the covering of Rooney, Glen Johnson is well Glen Johnson didn't do any better or worse than I thought he would. The Sturridge injury may hurt us real bad if not available next match. Rooney should be on the subs bench, but overall there certainly was encouragement for the future. If Suarez is not available on Thursday, we will have the beating of Uruguay.

[Pedro]

It could have been 4-1, hit the post and bar with one off the line but that's football, near misses don't count. I'm no expert or tactician but I would have thought a plan B when you are needing a goal is to bring on a natural goal scorer. Rooney was found a position opposed to dropping him but his cross for the goal was superb.

[John Boy Saint]

Does make me smile all the Rooney support, Baines was constantly looking for cover from Rooney in the first half but because he had a strop on for not being in his favouritest position he preferred to sulk rather than play as a team, great cross but then for a £300k pw footballer I would expect no less.

[Whitey Grandad]

Rooney couldn't even take a corner. End of discussion.

Edited 15 June, 2014 by Whitey Grandad

[krissyboy31]

Does make me smile all the Rooney support, Baines was constantly looking for cover from Rooney in the first half but because he had a strop on for not being in his favouritest position he preferred to sulk rather than play as a team, great cross but then for a £300k pw footballer I would expect no less.

 

Agreed. If there are players preferred in Rooney's best/favourite position he should have been left out. He was woefully inadequate in the defensive part of his game. Remember how long it took Lallana to learn/master that role?

[krissyboy31]

Rooney couldn't even take a corner. End if discussion.

 

Now that was funny!!

[Special K]

Without Jagielka and the crossbar it would have been 4-1 and the performance would have counted for f all as the focus would have been on the score. For me, Italy won at a canter, doing enough to get the points without stretching themselves and with important first choicers missing. I wasn't overly impressed with the team performance although individuals did well.

 

I also don't get this "performance is a substitute for result" nonsense. Major tournament progression requires wins, not fluffed lines. Hopefully they will play better on Thursday and put themselves in pole position for second place.

[Batman]

Amazes me how people still say Rooney is world class.

 

He really isn't, sadly

[S-Clarke]

Amazes me how people still say Rooney is world class.

 

He really isn't, sadly

 

Peaked too early, he's now just a mid-table PL player, who just happens to be earning 300k p/w. Go figure.

 

Doubt it's just me, but England just seem to flow much better without him in the side.

[krissyboy31]

Without Jagielka and the crossbar it would have been 4-1 and the performance would have counted for f all as the focus would have been on the score. For me, Italy won at a canter, doing enough to get the points without stretching themselves and with important first choicers missing. I wasn't overly impressed with the team performance although individuals did well.

 

I also don't get this "performance is a substitute for result" nonsense. Major tournament progression requires wins, not fluffed lines. Hopefully they will play better on Thursday and put themselves in pole position for second place.

You can pick out those moments but we actually had more chances and their keeper made more saves. It was a decent performance without being outstanding but it was infinitely better than the Italy match in The Euros, even if that was a draw after extra-time and this was a defeat.

[farawaysaint]

Amazes me how people still say Rooney is world class.

 

He really isn't, sadly

 

What always shocks me is that he's in the same pay bracket of the Messis and Ronaldos of this world Truly ridiculous.

[St Chalet]

What always shocks me is that he's in the same pay bracket of the Messis and Ronaldos of this world Truly ridiculous.

 

Clearly it is his agent who is 'World Class'.

[doddisalegend]

Peaked too early, he's now just a mid-table PL player, who just happens to be earning 300k p/w. Go figure.

 

Doubt it's just me, but England just seem to flow much better without him in the side.

 

Agree. I'm not suggesting Lambert is as good an individual player as Rooney but sometimes the best team isn't made up of the best players. Few times Lambert has played for England he always looks to be making the best choices for the team Rooney always seem to play for himself first and the team second.........at least that's how it looks to me.

[FloridaMarlin]

I don't think anybody is being too critical of the younger players. The problem appears to be with the elder statesmen.

 

Of course you need experienced players, but it must be a concern how much influence Gerrard appears to have in team selection, and his own contribution to it.

 

I think Gerrard's role is a cheat's position. The spin is that he's re-invented himself in this deep-lying role, when the reality is that he no longer has the legs to play at the top flight. His role consists largely of sitting in front of the defence, picking the ball up and pinging long-range passes out to the wing. Compare his effectiveness to the of Pirlo, whose role is similar.

 

Because he hasn't got the legs, he can't cover the width of the pitch (never mind the length) and he and Henderson were so narrow in front of the defence you could have covered them with a tablecloth. Because they were narrow, Italy worked out pretty quickly that coupled with Rooney's lack of defensive responsibility, there was going to be space in front of Baines and they and exploited it.

 

Hodgson has nailed his colours to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy, and doesn't know how to extricate himself from it. The senior players - Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Johnson - are the ones who have underperformed in previous tournaments, but for whatever reason, continue to be picked. The exception was Cole who, ironically, might have been the best of the old guard.

 

Of course, some of the protection of Rooney has already started and Hodgson will ship most of the flak as the Rooney apologists claim it was the manager's fault for playing Rooney out of position.

 

Perhaps the truth is that England have better players - Sterling - who can play where Rooney would prefer to play and Hodgson's reluctance to drop Rooney sees him shoehorn Shrek in wherever he can. It begs the question that if Rooney is being played out of position, are there better players in that position who should be playing?

 

And if you want further evidence that it was the old guard who let England down, contrast and compare the contributions from England's senior players to Italy's last night.

 

Gerrard, Rooney and Johnson v Pirlo, de Rossi and Chiellini. I rest my case, m'lud.

[Leicestersaint]

Clearly there are a lot of people on this forum that don't know much about football, those that are slating the England performance. Take a look at the papers this morning, almost universally saying that it was a good performance.

 

Or is it just that some people seem to take pleasure in moaning?

 

This is a rather arrogant comment. If you seriously think we should be influenced by the media commentators I wonder what planet you inhabit. I thought the comments by Ferdinand, Shearer and Henry (and Lineker and whoever the twerp of a commentator was) were trite and inane. What are Rooney and Wellbeck doing in the side? We were tactically inept with wide open spaces down out left flank, Shaw would have done better than Baines but the left back needs some help from the midfielder and Rooney was no help at all. I am also rather underwhelmed by Gerrard and Henderson. Hopefully we can tweak the formation and include a few different players otherwise we're going out I fear.

[Saint Billy]

I don't think anybody is being too critical of the younger players. The problem appears to be with the elder statesmen.

 

Of course you need experienced players, but it must be a concern how much influence Gerrard appears to have in team selection, and his own contribution to it.

 

I think Gerrard's role is a cheat's position. The spin is that he's re-invented himself in this deep-lying role, when the reality is that he no longer has the legs to play at the top flight. His role consists largely of sitting in front of the defence, picking the ball up and pinging long-range passes out to the wing. Compare his effectiveness to the of Pirlo, whose role is similar.

 

Because he hasn't got the legs, he can't cover the width of the pitch (never mind the length) and he and Henderson were so narrow in front of the defence you could have covered them with a tablecloth. Because they were narrow, Italy worked out pretty quickly that coupled with Rooney's lack of defensive responsibility, there was going to be space in front of Baines and they and exploited it.

 

Hodgson has nailed his colours to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy, and doesn't know how to extricate himself from it. The senior players - Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Johnson - are the ones who have underperformed in previous tournaments, but for whatever reason, continue to be picked. The exception was Cole who, ironically, might have been the best of the old guard.

 

Of course, some of the protection of Rooney has already started and Hodgson will ship most of the flak as the Rooney apologists claim it was the manager's fault for playing Rooney out of position.

 

Perhaps the truth is that England have better players - Sterling - who can play where Rooney would prefer to play and Hodgson's reluctance to drop Rooney sees him shoehorn Shrek in wherever he can. It begs the question that if Rooney is being played out of position, are there better players in that position who should be playing?

 

And if you want further evidence that it was the old guard who let England down, contrast and compare the contributions from England's senior players to Italy's last night.

 

Gerrard, Rooney and Johnson v Pirlo, de Rossi and Chiellini. I rest my case, m'lud.

 

Absolutely spot on!

[Wade Garrett]

This is a rather arrogant comment. If you seriously think we should be influenced by the media commentators I wonder what planet you inhabit. I thought the comments by Ferdinand, Shearer and Henry (and Lineker and whoever the twerp of a commentator was) were trite and inane. What are Rooney and Wellbeck doing in the side? We were tactically inept with wide open spaces down out left flank, Shaw would have done better than Baines but the left back needs some help from the midfielder and Rooney was no help at all. I am also rather underwhelmed by Gerrard and Henderson. Hopefully we can tweak the formation and include a few different players otherwise we're going out I fear.

 

To be fair, the pundits view of Rooney seemed to be that he tried hard but was sh*t.

[Whitey Grandad]

To be fair, the pundits view of Rooney seemed to be that he tried hard but was sh*t.

 

Yes, very trying.

[iansums]

This is a rather arrogant comment. If you seriously think we should be influenced by the media commentators I wonder what planet you inhabit. I thought the comments by Ferdinand, Shearer and Henry (and Lineker and whoever the twerp of a commentator was) were trite and inane. What are Rooney and Wellbeck doing in the side? We were tactically inept with wide open spaces down out left flank, Shaw would have done better than Baines but the left back needs some help from the midfielder and Rooney was no help at all. I am also rather underwhelmed by Gerrard and Henderson. Hopefully we can tweak the formation and include a few different players otherwise we're going out I fear.

Read my post again. I did not say you should be influenced by the media but if the consensus of the press reaction is that it was a good performance then I think that tells you something.

 

Yours is the typical over the top reaction to a defeat. People need to realise we are simply not in the top level of International football now. Sad but true.

 

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

[Batman]

quite funny listening to adrian durham saying the performance was alright and does not get all the 'buzz'

 

he made a good point that Rooney has such a grip on the squad.

he was playing pretty poorly yet stayed on. Also, that Lambert NOT lallana should have came on for sturridge

 

I also agreed with him that our preparations must not have been right with a few players going down with cramp, yet the older italians were fine.

also, how on earth did we AGAIN, allow Pirlo to stroll around the pitch like he owned it. Not as if we were not warned

 

I think the issue down our left was alarming. It was happening ALL game and they finally scored from it in the 2nd half.

 

Thought Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley were good. Rooney, Gerrard and baines were crap

 

interesting thought, a few taters on the radio said that Shaw would have been the better defender against italy given the lack of cover from our midfield. They noticed that baines tucked in far too much and did not have the pace to intercept their attackers until it was too late

[1576]

Didn't Rodrigues run a pub in totton after he retired?

 

As others said was the King Rufus in Eling. Used to go in there with my mum and dad as a 7/8/9 year old can't remember which and the absolute outstanding moment for me was being able to hold the ball used in the cup final which was kept in a cabinet behind the bar.

[Chez]

 

Perhaps the truth is that England have better players - Sterling - who can play where Rooney would prefer to play and Hodgson's reluctance to drop Rooney sees him shoehorn Shrek in wherever he can. It begs the question that if Rooney is being played out of position, are there better players in that position who should be playing?.

 

With Wellbeck doing pretty well IMO on the right, who then plays left wing?

[shurlock]

quite funny listening to adrian durham saying the performance was alright and does not get all the 'buzz'

 

he made a good point that Rooney has such a grip on the squad.

he was playing pretty poorly yet stayed on. Also, that Lambert NOT lallana should have came on for sturridge

 

I also agreed with him that our preparations must not have been right with a few players going down with cramp, yet the older italians were fine.

also, how on earth did we AGAIN, allow Pirlo to stroll around the pitch like he owned it. Not as if we were not warned

 

I think the issue down our left was alarming. It was happening ALL game and they finally scored from it in the 2nd half.

 

Thought Sterling, Sturridge, Barkley were good. Rooney, Gerrard and baines were crap

 

interesting thought, a few taters on the radio said that Shaw would have been the better defender against italy given the lack of cover from our midfield. They noticed that baines tucked in far too much and did not have the pace to intercept their attackers until it was too late

 

It's like Fox -you tend to tuck in more if you don't have the pace to play tight. You need those few extra yards cushion.

[FloridaMarlin]

This is a rather arrogant comment. If you seriously think we should be influenced by the media commentators I wonder what planet you inhabit. I thought the comments by Ferdinand, Shearer and Henry (and Lineker and whoever the twerp of a commentator was) were trite and inane. What are Rooney and Wellbeck doing in the side? We were tactically inept with wide open spaces down out left flank, Shaw would have done better than Baines but the left back needs some help from the midfielder and Rooney was no help at all. I am also rather underwhelmed by Gerrard and Henderson. Hopefully we can tweak the formation and include a few different players otherwise we're going out I fear.

 

It's always interesting to listen to the pundits and you could develop serious paranoia if you take everything they say at face value.

 

However,I don't think it's stretching a point to say that former players will always defend their old team-mates.

 

Ferdinand's efforts to defend Rooney swung from desperate to embarrassing, and short of him pulling out a gun on the pitch and shooting somebody dead, Rio will back him to the hilt.

 

And without being paranoid, there is a strong Manc-Scouse axis of pundits who will always big up their buddies. But thus, it has always been.

[SarniaSaint]

Great Result for me just showed that all the big club Super Stars are CARP on the world stage.

[Goatboy]

I don't think anybody is being too critical of the younger players. The problem appears to be with the elder statesmen.

 

Of course you need experienced players, but it must be a concern how much influence Gerrard appears to have in team selection, and his own contribution to it.

 

I think Gerrard's role is a cheat's position. The spin is that he's re-invented himself in this deep-lying role, when the reality is that he no longer has the legs to play at the top flight. His role consists largely of sitting in front of the defence, picking the ball up and pinging long-range passes out to the wing. Compare his effectiveness to the of Pirlo, whose role is similar.

 

Because he hasn't got the legs, he can't cover the width of the pitch (never mind the length) and he and Henderson were so narrow in front of the defence you could have covered them with a tablecloth. Because they were narrow, Italy worked out pretty quickly that coupled with Rooney's lack of defensive responsibility, there was going to be space in front of Baines and they and exploited it.

 

Hodgson has nailed his colours to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy, and doesn't know how to extricate himself from it. The senior players - Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Johnson - are the ones who have underperformed in previous tournaments, but for whatever reason, continue to be picked. The exception was Cole who, ironically, might have been the best of the old guard.

 

Of course, some of the protection of Rooney has already started and Hodgson will ship most of the flak as the Rooney apologists claim it was the manager's fault for playing Rooney out of position.

 

Perhaps the truth is that England have better players - Sterling - who can play where Rooney would prefer to play and Hodgson's reluctance to drop Rooney sees him shoehorn Shrek in wherever he can. It begs the question that if Rooney is being played out of position, are there better players in that position who should be playing?

 

And if you want further evidence that it was the old guard who let England down, contrast and compare the contributions from England's senior players to Italy's last night.

 

Gerrard, Rooney and Johnson v Pirlo, de Rossi and Chiellini. I rest my case, m'lud.

 

Agree with most of this.

[PhilippineSaint]

There are three people in that starting line up who failed to deliver Iwont go into details as most of them have aalready been covered in previous posts but the following names

 

Rooney

Welbeck

Gerrard

 

none of these should be starting the next game on performances but I bet all three do.

[Noodles34]

I don't think anybody is being too critical of the younger players. The problem appears to be with the elder statesmen.

 

Of course you need experienced players, but it must be a concern how much influence Gerrard appears to have in team selection, and his own contribution to it.

 

I think Gerrard's role is a cheat's position. The spin is that he's re-invented himself in this deep-lying role, when the reality is that he no longer has the legs to play at the top flight. His role consists largely of sitting in front of the defence, picking the ball up and pinging long-range passes out to the wing. Compare his effectiveness to the of Pirlo, whose role is similar.

 

Because he hasn't got the legs, he can't cover the width of the pitch (never mind the length) and he and Henderson were so narrow in front of the defence you could have covered them with a tablecloth. Because they were narrow, Italy worked out pretty quickly that coupled with Rooney's lack of defensive responsibility, there was going to be space in front of Baines and they and exploited it.

 

Hodgson has nailed his colours to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy, and doesn't know how to extricate himself from it. The senior players - Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Johnson - are the ones who have underperformed in previous tournaments, but for whatever reason, continue to be picked. The exception was Cole who, ironically, might have been the best of the old guard.

 

Of course, some of the protection of Rooney has already started and Hodgson will ship most of the flak as the Rooney apologists claim it was the manager's fault for playing Rooney out of position.

 

Perhaps the truth is that England have better players - Sterling - who can play where Rooney would prefer to play and Hodgson's reluctance to drop Rooney sees him shoehorn Shrek in wherever he can. It begs the question that if Rooney is being played out of position, are there better players in that position who should be playing?

 

And if you want further evidence that it was the old guard who let England down, contrast and compare the contributions from England's senior players to Italy's last night.

 

Gerrard, Rooney and Johnson v Pirlo, de Rossi and Chiellini. I rest my case, m'lud.

 

Well said, a very good assessment

[Noodles34]

There are three people in that starting line up who failed to deliver Iwont go into details as most of them have aalready been covered in previous posts but the following names

 

Rooney

Welbeck

Gerrard

 

none of these should be starting the next game on performances but I bet all three do.

 

not Wellbecks biggest fan by any stretch, but he did well the other night, certainly did his job and seemed the only one to understand that we had to close down Pirlo.

i couldn't believe what we did with Pirlo. For the first 10/15 minutes we were on him, Wellbeck or Henderson, then we just seemed to stop doing that and once again he just ran the show, not because he is so great (he is though), but because we let him. Can you imagine the Germans doing the same?

 

still, 4 points could still do it!

[alpine_saint]

I don't think anybody is being too critical of the younger players. The problem appears to be with the elder statesmen.

 

Of course you need experienced players, but it must be a concern how much influence Gerrard appears to have in team selection, and his own contribution to it.

 

I think Gerrard's role is a cheat's position. The spin is that he's re-invented himself in this deep-lying role, when the reality is that he no longer has the legs to play at the top flight. His role consists largely of sitting in front of the defence, picking the ball up and pinging long-range passes out to the wing. Compare his effectiveness to the of Pirlo, whose role is similar.

 

Because he hasn't got the legs, he can't cover the width of the pitch (never mind the length) and he and Henderson were so narrow in front of the defence you could have covered them with a tablecloth. Because they were narrow, Italy worked out pretty quickly that coupled with Rooney's lack of defensive responsibility, there was going to be space in front of Baines and they and exploited it.

 

Hodgson has nailed his colours to the mast of Gerrard's captaincy, and doesn't know how to extricate himself from it. The senior players - Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Johnson - are the ones who have underperformed in previous tournaments, but for whatever reason, continue to be picked. The exception was Cole who, ironically, might have been the best of the old guard.

 

Of course, some of the protection of Rooney has already started and Hodgson will ship most of the flak as the Rooney apologists claim it was the manager's fault for playing Rooney out of position.

 

Perhaps the truth is that England have better players - Sterling - who can play where Rooney would prefer to play and Hodgson's reluctance to drop Rooney sees him shoehorn Shrek in wherever he can. It begs the question that if Rooney is being played out of position, are there better players in that position who should be playing?

 

And if you want further evidence that it was the old guard who let England down, contrast and compare the contributions from England's senior players to Italy's last night.

 

Gerrard, Rooney and Johnson v Pirlo, de Rossi and Chiellini. I rest my case, m'lud.

 

Jack Cork would be doing a better job than Gerrard.

[Smirking_Saint]

There are three people in that starting line up who failed to deliver Iwont go into details as most of them have aalready been covered in previous posts but the following names

 

Rooney

Welbeck

Gerrard

 

none of these should be starting the next game on performances but I bet all three do.

 

Gerrard and Rooney were pretty poor. As was Baines. Im assuming Welbeck just gets lumped into the mix as for some reason its fashionable to say he was **** when in reality he was far from it against Italy

[Special K]

Read my post again. I did not say you should be influenced by the media but if the consensus of the press reaction is that it was a good performance then I think that tells you something.

 

Yours is the typical over the top reaction to a defeat. People need to realise we are simply not in the top level of International football now. Sad but true.

 

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

I think your post was arrogant - at least in part - saying that it was clear that "a lot of people on the forum know nothing about football". If that isn't arrogance, then i'd welcome a suggestion as to what is?

[Noodles34]

Jack Cork would be doing a better job than Gerrard.

 

jesus, and Sam Gallagher would have done better than Sturridge?

[doddisalegend]

I think your post was arrogant - at least in part - saying that it was clear that "a lot of people on the forum know nothing about football". If that isn't arrogance, then i'd welcome a suggestion as to what is?

 

Ah the old favourite if you don't agree with me you know nothing about football line ............

[alpine_saint]

jesus, and Sam Gallagher would have done better than Sturridge?

 

Noope, and I fail to see the frankly hysterical analogy you've drawn there...

[Goatboy]

jesus, and Sam Gallagher would have done better than Sturridge?

 

Nailed on to score from a cross.

[doddisalegend]

jesus, and Sam Gallagher would have done better than Sturridge?

 

In fairness I'm a big Cork fan and felt he would have been a decent squad shout for England in the WC playing alongside Stevie G but I thought Henderson had a good game against Italy and is in the team on merit would rather have Cork in the team than Wilshire if I'm honest.

[iansums]

I think your post was arrogant - at least in part - saying that it was clear that "a lot of people on the forum know nothing about football". If that isn't arrogance, then i'd welcome a suggestion as to what is?

 

It would help if you quoted me correctly. I don't disagree with the fact that my statement was arrogant but I stand by it. After reading this forum for a number of years I have come to that conclusion.

[a1ex2001]

Got to love football fans, the more I read this forum the more I'm convinced I'm wright to think the majority are idiots!

 

It was a decent England performance and a draw would probably have been a fare result on the balance of play. Loving the 4-1 crowd counting free kicks against the crossbar and shots cleared off the line. If those count then our free kicks on the edge of the area definitely do as a miss is as good as a mile and with a little luck on another day they would have gone in then add Rooney missing when it was easier to score and we are back to evens.

 

Get a grip people it was a decent showing and if we maintain those standards we have a good chance of going through with only Italy (one of the best sides in the world) above us in the group!

[iansums]

Got to love football fans, the more I read this forum the more I'm convinced I'm wright to think the majority are idiots!

 

It was a decent England performance and a draw would probably have been a fare result on the balance of play. Loving the 4-1 crowd counting free kicks against the crossbar and shots cleared off the line. If those count then our free kicks on the edge of the area definitely do as a miss is as good as a mile and with a little luck on another day they would have gone in then add Rooney missing when it was easier to score and we are back to evens.

 

Get a grip people it was a decent showing and if we maintain those standards we have a good chance of going through with only Italy (one of the best sides in the world) above us in the group!

 

That's a far too balanced view for this forum.

[Noodles34]

Noope, and I fail to see the frankly hysterical analogy you've drawn there...

 

because its a common misconception that Southampton players are the only alternative, what saying Tom Huddlestone would have done a better job there, thats all.