Did we get rid of MP just in time?

[Brave Sir Robin]

Here's my theory:

 

Under Adkins we played a fluid passing game and clearly had a great, positive team spirit running throughout the squad. The only catch was that ultimately, at PL level, we got found out defensively.

 

In came MP, an expert in getting the whole team defending better, largely by playing further up the pitch and concentraring on keeping posession.

 

As MP had inherited a team that already had the right attitude and instinct for attacking play, the fact that he was less skilled at coaching that aspect of the game didn't matter too much initially and we reaped the rewards.

 

However, as time went on and the team's overall approach continued to evolve further away from Adkin's influence, towards MP's more patient style, the goals naturally dried up.

 

If this is the case, it might be a very good thing he's gone, and perfect timing to get someone in who's more skilled at inspiring spontaneity and finishing.

 

I guess time will tell...

[Saint Charlie]

He got rid of us.

 

This always happens when a player or Manager goes.

 

Fact is, he is/was a great Manager and it would have been great to have kept him.

[buctootim]

I guess you'd get an indication by looking at goals for and goals against for Espanyol during the three years he was there.

[Olallana]

Put a striker or two into our team/squad last year with a bit of movement and we would´ve been at least 10 points better off.

 

System was spot on, we just didn´t have the players up front to use it 100%.

[Frank's cousin]

Here's my theory:

 

Under Adkins we played a fluid passing game and clearly had a great, positive team spirit running throughout the squad. The only catch was that ultimately, at PL level, we got found out defensively.

 

In came MP, an expert in getting the whole team defending better, largely by playing further up the pitch and concentraring on keeping posession.

 

As MP had inherited a team that already had the right attitude and instinct for attacking play, the fact that he was less skilled at coaching that aspect of the game didn't matter too much initially and we reaped the rewards.

 

However, as time went on and the team's overall approach continued to evolve further away from Adkin's influence, towards MP's more patient style, the goals naturally dried up.

 

If this is the case, it might be a very good thing he's gone, and perfect timing to get someone in who's more skilled at inspiring spontaneity and finishing.

 

I guess time will tell...

 

Interesting thoughts but not sure I agree entirely. As I saw it we were fine against sides who were more open: the Betty sihes willing to commit players for watch and our pressing high up as well as having space when we attacked in numbers, was still very effective and in part teh reason IMHO that we won more away points than we had previously in prem era. At home and against those sides happy with a point, we still lacked that extra bit of quality to unlock solid defences... Often having all teh procession and being open to the sucker punch on the break.

 

i still think POCH did what he could with the squad we had, and having to contend with the injuries etc. we also had a young squad in general and often we were were guilty of nothing more than a bit of nativity.... Had he stayed and the squad stayed together + a couple of additions I would have expected continued development and progress.

 

 

having said that, if we get Koeman, we could see that development anyway, and I would have to take back what I have said about Kreuger and the board... And nether would being left with egg on face give me more pleasure ;-)

[Horley CTFC Saint]

Biggest concern for me was that we used to rule the first half and then ride out the second in far too many matches - a more balanced game approach would not go amiss

[Frank's cousin]

... I hate auto correct on the IPad .....

[Ohio Saint]

oops. see below.

[Ohio Saint]

He didn't want to be here, so he walked out. Whatever his positives were, being a reluctant manager over-rides every other consideration. Now that it's over, it's probably a good thing that he went sooner rather than later. A complete season with his heart not in it while he waited for a bigger club would have been terrible for us.

 

So yes. He got rid of us just in time IMO

[shurlock]

He didn't want to be here, so he walked out. Whatever his positives were, being a reluctant manager over-rides every other consideration. Now that it's over, it's probably a good thing that he went sooner rather than later. A complete season with his heart not in it while he waited for a bigger club would have been terrible for us.

 

So yes. He got rid of us just in time IMO

 

Agree.

[Saint_Abroad]

Put a striker or two into our team/squad last year with a bit of movement and we would´ve been at least 10 points better off.

 

System was spot on, we just didn´t have the players up front to use it 100%.

 

Agreed. Shaw and Chambers/Clyne would push up the wings with pace and no one would come up the middle to help. By the time someone showed up the back line was in place to defend the cross.

 

I got sick of seeing back passes too. Davis, Cork, and Schneiderlin to an extent, looked lost at the back and would instinctively pass it to Fonte or Lovren which exposed us to the counter attack.

Edited 7 June, 2014 by Saint_Abroad

[Leicestersaint]

I will not be surprised if he fails at Spurs - watch this space!!

[Batman]

He got rid of us

[WealdSaint]

I was worried the way we always faded in the 2nd half last season. It was interesting to see that Man U had picked up on that when I watched the Giggs's diary the other night.

 

MoPo got rid of us for reasons we don't know yet. I fear for him at Spuds.

 

I will always hold a soft spot for Nigel Adkins who I view as a true gent, but MoPo is now "just another ex saint manager" to me.

[Ohio Saint]

For me, the shame is that I really liked him when he first arrived, and for quite a while after. It has to be said though that I thought the same about that brain dead moron beeyatch cow that was my ex wife. I'd like to see her boobs boil and her arse fall out. Much the same as I feel about MP now!

 

Edit: Re the above post. Adkins was more like that first girlfriend. You think of her fondly and forgive any of the bad stuff because you were both still learning the ways of the world together.

Edited 7 June, 2014 by Ohio Saint

[slickmick]

I will not be surprised if he fails at Spurs - watch this space!!

 

 

I think he will too. We were all ready playing the style of football that he inherited, but he took us up a notch.

At Spurs, he will have to start from scratch a bit. Maybe next season he will have more success if he's not fired by then.

[Batman]

I think he will too. We were all ready playing the style of football that he inherited, but he took us up a notch.

At Spurs, he will have to start from scratch a bit. Maybe next season he will have more success if he's not fired by then.

 

He won't have to start from scratch really

 

They hardly played like a pulis stoke side and they have some very good players

[Whitey Grandad]

I don't think the fans at Tottenham will put up with his patient posession-football build ups. They want swashbuckling all-out attacking.

[alpine_saint]

Here's my theory:

 

Under Adkins we played a fluid passing game and clearly had a great, positive team spirit running throughout the squad. The only catch was that ultimately, at PL level, we got found out defensively.

 

In came MP, an expert in getting the whole team defending better, largely by playing further up the pitch and concentraring on keeping posession.

 

As MP had inherited a team that already had the right attitude and instinct for attacking play, the fact that he was less skilled at coaching that aspect of the game didn't matter too much initially and we reaped the rewards.

 

However, as time went on and the team's overall approach continued to evolve further away from Adkin's influence, towards MP's more patient style, the goals naturally dried up.

 

If this is the case, it might be a very good thing he's gone, and perfect timing to get someone in who's more skilled at inspiring spontaneity and finishing.

 

I guess time will tell...

 

As others said, he got rid of us.

 

However there is some merit in what you say, and in the argument that if he had focused a bit better on attacking play we might have done even better. Maybe this departure will work out well for us, but we will never know.

 

Following on from what you say, and considering this sanctimonious attitude Spurs fans and club official have about the way they should play, it is not inconceivable that he is going to be in real trouble, real fast, and he could well be gone by Xmas.

[Heisenberg]

Espanyol improved after Pooch left and if we keep our squad together im convinced we will too.

 

The team spirit doesnt appear to be as strong as it was under Adkins and hopefully thats something Koeman can help rebuild.

 

Onwards and upwards. Coyr

[Kingsland Red]

Whilst I agree he got rid of us, I was wondering if we would ever crack the "park the bus" sides; and the Cardiff match proved to me Poch struggled with a Plan B.

Now the other Premier League managers have had a season of playing against a Poch side, I do wonder if his team, whoever they may be will not be caught out with balls behind the full backs and getting between the lines this coming season.

[The Kraken]

Espanyol improved after Pooch left and if we keep our squad together im convinced we will too.

 

The team spirit doesnt appear to be as strong as it was under Adkins and hopefully thats something Koeman can help rebuild.

 

Onwards and upwards. Coyr

 

We've already failed in that regard Glesgie, with further departures expected.

[Olallana]

Espanyol improved after Pooch left and if we keep our squad together im convinced we will too.

 

The team spirit doesnt appear to be as strong as it was under Adkins and hopefully thats something Koeman can help rebuild.

 

Onwards and upwards. Coyr

 

Yes, players has been miserable and unhappy. All those interviews, videos and pictures from the training ground is pure propaganda from the Stalin like media department we have.

[Heisenberg]

We've already failed in that regard Glesgie, with further departures expected.

 

Thats fine. Espanyol also lost 2-3 of there best players after Pooch left. They still improved and im convinced our squad will still be good enough. Need a decent manager on/off the pitch and hopefully Koeman's that man.

[shurlock]

Espanyol improved after Pooch left and if we keep our squad together im convinced we will too.

 

The team spirit doesnt appear to be as strong as it was under Adkins and hopefully thats something Koeman can help rebuild.

 

Onwards and upwards. Coyr

 

 

 

 

Its still here.

Edited 7 June, 2014 by shurlock

[Batman]

Thats fine. Espanyol also lost 2-3 of there best players after Pooch left. They still improved and im convinced our squad will still be good enough. Need a decent manager on/off the pitch and hopefully Koeman's that man.

 

Sweet, top 6 in the bag then

[Heisenberg]

Sweet, top 6 in the bag then

 

Lets take things slow. How about 7th and a decent cup run?

 

We could realistically lose Lambert, Shaw and Lallana and still have a better squad than half the prem. If we replace the outs with decent ins, then who knows.

 

Coyr

[Wes Tender]

Adkins teams played some exciting football and we weren't far adrift of a good team under him. The defence was a bit suspect, but the attack wasn't too bad. Adkins would already have had a better defence had he had Lovren and Boruc with Shaw and Clyne/Chambers and Wanyama in front of them. Pochettino introduced something extra with the high pressing game, which wasn't anything new as he learned it from Bielsa, but it was new in the Premiership and worked well initially. But after a while, the canny managers worked out how to counter it and although the top teams were more gung-ho about keeping their usual attacking style of play which suited us, the lower down teams just parked the bus inviting us to break them down and then hitting us on the break.

 

Pochettino just didn't have a plan B, as others have mentioned, especially if key elements of the plan like Rodriguez were missing up top, or if there were other key injuries to the defence, as with Lovren and Boruc. If we get in somebody like Koeman, It is to be hoped that he will see the success we have had from our high-pressing game and yet have the tactical nous to fine-tune it with some astute additions to the team, but also the ability to get results against those teams who park the bus to counter our strengths.

 

Pochettino was generally good, but Adkins was pretty good for us too. There really is not reason to doubt that Koeman, or whoever else we appoint will not be an improvement also.

[shurlock]

Adkins teams played some exciting football and we weren't far adrift of a good team under him. The defence was a bit suspect, but the attack wasn't too bad. Adkins would already have had a better defence had he had Lovren and Boruc with Shaw and Clyne/Chambers and Wanyama in front of them. Pochettino introduced something extra with the high pressing game, which wasn't anything new as he learned it from Bielsa, but it was new in the Premiership and worked well initially. But after a while, the canny managers worked out how to counter it and although the top teams were more gung-ho about keeping their usual attacking style of play which suited us, the lower down teams just parked the bus inviting us to break them down and then hitting us on the break.

 

Pochettino just didn't have a plan B, as others have mentioned, especially if key elements of the plan like Rodriguez were missing up top, or if there were other key injuries to the defence, as with Lovren and Boruc. If we get in somebody like Koeman, It is to be hoped that he will see the success we have had from our high-pressing game and yet have the tactical nous to fine-tune it with some astute additions to the team, but also the ability to get results against those teams who park the bus to counter our strengths.

 

Pochettino was generally good, but Adkins was pretty good for us too. There really is not reason to doubt that Koeman, or whoever else we appoint will not be an improvement also.

 

You do realise we averaged slightly more goals under Poch than Adkins? You forget some truly dire and one-dimensional performances under Nige -Wigan and Sunderland at home spring to mind. And who wouldn't miss Jrod - teams miss full-internationals, especially when their squad is so thin. That has nothing to do with the absence of a plan B.

[Whitey Grandad]

I've always felt that we were a bit one-paced under MP. I'd like to see us mix things up a bit more often.

[St Chalet]

Let us be honest, he got rid of us.

 

Had he have stayed and bought well in the Summer we'd be challenging for top 6. That said I see him a ruthless individual who appears to have developed a bunker mentality with team (that's why him and Cortese got on).

 

So in a way it was better to happen now than in a years time.

[Mowgli]

Yes, players has been miserable and unhappy. All those interviews, videos and pictures from the training ground is pure propaganda from the Stalin like media department we have.

 

You know as well as the rest of us that one or two players were not doing so well under MP. Hooiveld, cork and Clyne to name three who found they no longer had a guaranteed first team place. Other left on transfer on loan. He was a test manager but you can't keep everyone happy so the optimists will always see a new manager as an opportunity for some to prove their worth.

[Mowgli]

That should read great manager

[DuncanRG]

You know as well as the rest of us that one or two players were not doing so well under MP. Hooiveld, cork and Clyne to name three who found they no longer had a guaranteed first team place. Other left on transfer on loan. He was a test manager but you can't keep everyone happy so the optimists will always see a new manager as an opportunity for some to prove their worth.

 

Nobody's happy when they're not playing. What's important is that they keep working hard, stay professional and do well when they're called upon, which those players undoubtedly have done.

 

(Well, Hooiveld wasn't great but he didn't throw a strop)

 

If all you get is a couple of grumbles from players who aren't getting a game then you're presiding over a harmonious squad. By all accounts we've had that over the last few years and it sounds like Pochettino only strengthened our unity.

[croydonsaint]

I do think MP is a decent coach. The team was certainly ready for what he brought to us, but he was lucky with the spirit and the team that he inherited from Nigel's very good work. I think the hard work had been done for him. Personally I am not unhappy he has left and sadly for him he will I think struggle next season to have the impact he had with us. He is quite young still and he has made a mistake in leaving and in years to come he will look back at his time with us and realise how stupid he was to leave. As long as we take on a better replacement and I think we will, we will continue to move forward.

MP has made his bed and because of the disloyalty he showed in leaving a year early I do find it hard to feel sorry for him.

[Batman]

Saying MP was just decent is a assume disservice really

 

Until he came, lambert would have been our only real hope of the England squad. We should have had 4 and a great deal of that was MP getting the best out of certain players

 

As a coach, I thought he was excellent

[shurlock]

Saying MP was just decent is a assume disservice really

 

Until he came, lambert would have been our only real hope of the England squad. We should have had 4 and a great deal of that was MP getting the best out of certain players

 

As a coach, I thought he was excellent

 

Agree -should have had 5 (Clyne) and perhaps 6 (Cork).

[Heisenberg]

Saying MP was just decent is a assume disservice really

 

Until he came, lambert would have been our only real hope of the England squad. We should have had 4 and a great deal of that was MP getting the best out of certain players

 

As a coach, I thought he was excellent

 

Shaw was always going to get called up at some stage and Lallana was called up in Sept 2012 under Adkins

[shurlock]

Shaw was always going to get called up at some stage and Lallana was called up in Sept 2012 under Adkins

 

Unlikely any of those, including Lambert, would have gone to the WC. Lallana didn't even get off the bench in the meaningless friendly you mention

[Batman]

Unlikely any of those, including Lambert, would have gone to the WC. Lallana didn't even get off the bench in the meaningless friendly you mention

 

He was not even dressed in kit.

He was called up after a round of injuries and took part in a few training sessions

[croydonsaint]

Saying MP was just decent is a assume disservice really

 

Until he came, lambert would have been our only real hope of the England squad. We should have had 4 and a great deal of that was MP getting the best out of certain players

 

As a coach, I thought he was excellent

 

I stand by my comment that he is a decent coach, but he was lucky with the timing of when he came to us. I do not think it was as much what he coached into the players as others outside the club realising what we had. They were all the same players before he came. I actually think our players did more for him than he did for us and he will regret leaving when he did. I am certain of this. Luckily not our problem and am looking forward to next season with an even better coach in place.....

[Heisenberg]

Unlikely any of those, including Lambert, would have gone to the WC. Lallana didn't even get off the bench in the meaningless friendly you mention

 

Impossible to say for sure, we will never know. But batman was suggesting lambert was our only real hope. Just pointing out that Lallana was on the fringes 2 years ago and Shaw was a guarantee at some stage given his talent.

 

You mention Jack Cork in your post (38 ) above, but i actually think although class last season he was better the season before, perhaps because he played more regularly though? Cork was a regular in the u21's and of course got the olympic call up, before Pooch came in

[Batman]

Impossible to say for sure, we will never know. But batman was suggesting lambert was our only real hope. Just pointing out that Lallana was on the fringes 2 years ago and Shaw was a guarantee at some stage given his talent.

 

You mention Jack Cork in your post (38 ) above, but i actually think although class last season he was better the season before, perhaps because he played more regularly though? Cork was a regular in the u21's and of course got the olympic call up, before Pooch came in

 

You are right, cork should be there now

[Lord Duckhunter]

Some of the performances last season were up there with the best of lawries days. Hull and Newcastle at home, Fulham second half away. Our away stats speak for themselves and we were in every game last season, even under lawrie we had some stinkers when we got battered.

 

That said , he didn't build the side he inherited it. He made certain players better and we were an extremely well coached side. On occasions we lost games we should have won, dropped points by continuing to play the same way instead of changing slightly and changing tactically during the game. I always got the impression that if sides could stay in the game and then adjust their game to neutralize ours, they could overcome us. All Jose did was throw 2 men up front, go a bit longer and both games went away from us.

 

I loved Nigel but clearly Poch was a step up. How he gets on at spurs will be interesting. He had a group here who wanted to learn and were receptive to ideas, as well as some great senior pros, not just Rickie, but Kelvin , Steve Davis and even Guly was happy to muck in when needed. Spurs has been a graveyard for managers, players who think they're better than they are, senior pros who think they should be playing and a structure that is puzzling. I think that unless he's prepared to be a bit more flexible he could struggle, but he's Levy's man so I think he'll get more time than people think. Sack him early and levy may have to go as well.

 

As for Nigel, he's been sold a pig in a poke at Reading. He'd be a great manager for Norwich or west brom. By taking the reading job he's basically consigned himself as a lower league manager, which is a shame. He should have stayed out of the game until a Fulham, west brom or Norwich came calling.

[Mr X]

Some of the performances last season were up there with the best of lawries days. Hull and Newcastle at home, Fulham second half away. Our away stats speak for themselves and we were in every game last season, even under lawrie we had some stinkers when we got battered.

 

That said , he didn't build the side he inherited it. He made certain players better and we were an extremely well coached side. On occasions we lost games we should have won, dropped points by continuing to play the same way instead of changing slightly and changing tactically during the game. I always got the impression that if sides could stay in the game and then adjust their game to neutralize ours, they could overcome us. All Jose did was throw 2 men up front, go a bit longer and both games went away from us.

 

I loved Nigel but clearly Poch was a step up. How he gets on at spurs will be interesting. He had a group here who wanted to learn and were receptive to ideas, as well as some great senior pros, not just Rickie, but Kelvin , Steve Davis and even Guly was happy to muck in when needed. Spurs has been a graveyard for managers, players who think they're better than they are, senior pros who think they should be playing and a structure that is puzzling. I think that unless he's prepared to be a bit more flexible he could struggle, but he's Levy's man so I think he'll get more time than people think. Sack him early and levy may have to go as well.

 

As for Nigel, he's been sold a pig in a poke at Reading. He'd be a great manager for Norwich or west brom. By taking the reading job he's basically consigned himself as a lower league manager, which is a shame. He should have stayed out of the game until a Fulham, west brom or Norwich came calling.

 

Why do you say this surely he can proove himself at any club?

[Lord Duckhunter]

Why do you say this surely he can proove himself at any club?

 

Once you've failed your next job is really important,particularly if you've lost a job at a level you've not been before. Look at Moyes , if he gets it wrong next time after failing at a bigger club he's toast. Reading was an accident waiting to happen with a dodgy Russian taking over from Madaski. Norwich would be a perfect fit for him IMO.

[deadpanmatt]

Obviously I would rather we kept him than not, but I was thinking the other day that his one negative was his big signings. Assuming that he decided who to sign last summer, Wanyama and Osvaldo have not impressed in my view, with Lovren being the only stand out purchase. Most of the Saints success stories have been players that either Atkins or Pardew bought, who perhaps Poch improved through tactics and training. Maybe part of why he left was because the board were unwilling to find another Poch summer spending spree with £15 million of dead wood on loan at Juve last season.

[deadpanmatt]

Fund, not find!

[pap]

Some of the performances last season were up there with the best of lawries days. Hull and Newcastle at home, Fulham second half away. Our away stats speak for themselves and we were in every game last season, even under lawrie we had some stinkers when we got battered.

 

That said , he didn't build the side he inherited it. He made certain players better and we were an extremely well coached side. On occasions we lost games we should have won, dropped points by continuing to play the same way instead of changing slightly and changing tactically during the game. I always got the impression that if sides could stay in the game and then adjust their game to neutralize ours, they could overcome us. All Jose did was throw 2 men up front, go a bit longer and both games went away from us.

 

I loved Nigel but clearly Poch was a step up. How he gets on at spurs will be interesting. He had a group here who wanted to learn and were receptive to ideas, as well as some great senior pros, not just Rickie, but Kelvin , Steve Davis and even Guly was happy to muck in when needed. Spurs has been a graveyard for managers, players who think they're better than they are, senior pros who think they should be playing and a structure that is puzzling. I think that unless he's prepared to be a bit more flexible he could struggle, but he's Levy's man so I think he'll get more time than people think. Sack him early and levy may have to go as well.

 

As for Nigel, he's been sold a pig in a poke at Reading. He'd be a great manager for Norwich or west brom. By taking the reading job he's basically consigned himself as a lower league manager, which is a shame. He should have stayed out of the game until a Fulham, west brom or Norwich came calling.

 

 

NA was hard done by, but can't really have any complaints post the merciless sacking.

 

The bloke had a lot of goodwill, a decent reputation and decided to go and spend it all in Reading.

[sammysaint]

His only negative was playing players out of postion with no natural width and pace, bar that he was a good manager, and wish we kept him, but as others said he left us at the right time.

 

I hope if Koeman comes in we play the attacking pacey football he has been playing in Holland.