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[Window Cleaner]

How many times has it worked when a player has been denied a move to a much bigger club?

 

No idea but as he's been so seemingly determined to get a specific move I'd not like to see the consequences if it fails.

[DuncanRG]

How many times has it worked when a player has been denied a move to a much bigger club?

 

Normally works fine after some bridge building. Players realise they need to keep performing or they'll never get a move. If Suarez can come back stronger, Lallana can. Most are more professional than that - Ronaldo and Bale both stayed for an extra season before moving and played out of their skins. It's more about the dressing room dynamics for us if Lallana stays. I'm not sure he could realistically hold onto the captaincy.

 

I'm struggling to think of many examples of players not getting on with it at this level.

Edited 4 June, 2014 by DuncanRG

[CanadaSaint]

Normally works fine after some bridge building. Players realise they need to keep performing or they'll never get a move. If Suarez can come back stronger, Lallana can. Most are more professional than that - Ronaldo and Bale both stayed for an extra season before moving and played out of their skins. It's more about the dressing room dynamics for us if Lallana stays. I'm not sure he could realistically hold onto the captaincy.

 

I'm struggling to think of many examples of players not getting on with it at this level.

 

Oh, I think the club can play it with Lallana in such a way that he would be committed here - if they and the new manager want to keep him, given the "stories" about his attitude. For example, "Adam, what they were really offering was not just an insult to us - it was also an insult to you. If they viewed you as a starter they would have done better than that and they wouldn't have been so quick with the ultimatum. Your career is at a key stage - stay in the spotlight and keep developing with us, or potentially warm the bench at Liverpool. But you'd have some bridge mending to do here."

 

He may not like hearing that kind of thing, and losing the captaincy would probably hurt, but - unless he's completely burnt his bridges here - we either have to get proper value (compared with replacement cost) or keep hold of him IMO. After all, he's an England international and - in most people's eyes - a starter.

 

My frustration about the supposedly unanswered phone calls was not so much that his conduct deserved an answer but that it was a chance to give him some hard facts to chew on. Instead, he was left with his own (probably inflated) ego, the advice of people with other agendas, and a footballer's brain struggling to cope with all the real ramifications. But the time to convey that message was before he left for the WC.

[alpine_saint]

It's true if they're determined to go they probably should it's best for all parties. BUT before we get to that stage I'd like an ambitious and big name manager like Koeman to come in, meet the players and say 'I want to be top 6, do you want to be a part of that?'.

 

You may question the odds of coming top 6 but realistically a manager coming into a club that comfortably finished 8th has to go for that if he wants to get players on side. If players are still desperate to leave then, they can go for the right price. So long as there's some continuity, keeping at very least Boruc, Clyne, chambers, fonte, cork, wanyama, JWP, Davis, JRod, reed. It provides a very good platform to build on spend some money.

 

I like this post. Agree completely.

 

Seeing the list of players we have STILL got after the Mopo/SRL/Lallana/Shaw circus (sill hoping Lovren and Morgan will stay) in black-and-white, has cheered me up a lot.

 

Thanks !

[Dalek2003]

I like this post. Agree completely.

 

Seeing the list of players we have STILL got after the Mopo/SRL/Lallana/Shaw circus (sill hoping Lovren and Morgan will stay) in black-and-white, has cheered me up a lot.

 

Thanks !

 

Especially if we get three real quality replacements and Gaston comes good ! Would you get shot of Gaston and Osvaldo or give them a chance with a new manager ?

[alpine_saint]

Especially if we get three real quality replacements and Gaston comes good ! Would you get shot of Gaston and Osvaldo or give them a chance with a new manager ?

 

Sorry, the boat has left for me regarding them two; get shot whoever is in charge.

[Dalek2003]

Sorry, the boat has left for me regarding them two; get shot whoever is in charge.

 

I see where you are coming from. I suppose in that case cut our losses and get half the price we paid.

[so22saint]

I see where you are coming from. I suppose in that case cut our losses and get half the price we paid.

 

Only Glenn Hoddle could fix that dilemma

[Dalek2003]

Only Glenn Hoddle could fix that dilemma

 

Troll

[Saint in Paradise]

Only Glenn Hoddle could fix that dilemma

 

:lol:

[sammysaint]

Gaston is the one i really feel can improve under the right manager and a good world cup and pre season.

 

Osvaldo unless he comes out says sorry shaking Fontes hand and Fonte forgives he is not to play another game for us again.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

Gaston is the one i really feel can improve under the right manager and a good world cup and pre season.

 

Osvaldo unless he comes out says sorry shaking Fontes hand and Fonte forgives he is not to play another game for us again.

 

Yeah there is another way which is sell Fonte. Money talks.

[Matthew Le God]

Osvaldo unless he comes out says sorry shaking Fontes hand and Fonte forgives he is not to play another game for us again.

 

Yeah there is another way which is sell Fonte. Money talks.

 

I doubt Fonte is the only one in the squad who has an issue with Osvaldo.

[Golac's Cunning Stunts]

I doubt Fonte is the only one in the squad who has an issue with Osvaldo.

 

Sell them too

[Matthew Le God]

Thats the logic of the Wise Woman from Blackadder II.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Well she was a woman and she was wise. That it be. That it be.

[Turkish]

Well she was a woman and she was wise. That it be. That it be.

 

Yes it is not that it be,you don't have talk in that stupid voice to me I'm not a tourist.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Oh, alright then. She's over there.

[Dr Who?]

This,I totally agree with.

 

Do not agree, it is up to the manager to manage this situation. Look at Luis Suárez at Liverpool, he wanted out and then was player of the season. Strong management from the top is what is needed. Unfortunately we do not have this anymore.

[Dr Who?]

Sell them too

 

Sell them all and see how much money we can get, to extend the stadium?

[sotonist]

How many times has it worked when a player has been denied a move to a much bigger club?

 

we were promoted twice in seasons when jason puncheon was having a tantrum and we broke our record premier league points score when osvaldo assaulted one of the most senior players at the club.

[Frank's cousin]

for the last 18 months we've had a whole squad of players falling over each other to get into the first team.

 

Academy graduates wanting to get playing time and others swearing loyalty to the badge.....

 

well the bottom line is..... if they don't want to play for Saints anymore, it's best they go ASAP and we get the best price we can.

 

having a discontent in the dressing room is the worst thing we need right now. Bring in those who want to play.

 

to those who want out .....thank you and goodbye !

 

Sorry david, cant agree. None of our players were considering leaving last year... OK so in part, none were desired by other clubs to te smae level, but it' also about having an environment in which they WANT to be.

 

Whatever folks think about NC and MP, whatever you believe is reality or BS level of the 'plan' - they created an environment in which players at all levels believed Saints was the best place for them.

 

If all of a sudden a high number of players want to leave, then in my book this more about changes in the environment that they dont like, so we need to look at that.

 

Fans go on about loyalty, but seriously, if anyone sill expects that from players they are seriously naive. Even MLT would have gone in this day and age, given the diaparity in wages and lure of CL competition... and if h had stayed, it would have said more about a 'comfort zone' than loyalty... To keep and attcat players, you need a be able to CONVINCE them its the right place for them and their career - yes with wages, but also with belief that success is possible if they willing to work collectively and hard.

[Window Cleaner]

to extend the stadium?

 

 

To do what? Fill up for Utd and Chelsea and have vast empty spaces against Stoke and Norwich. A few more thousand on the gate for a few matches will bring nothing much to the club. We need to sell out for every league game at SMS as it is first and create new demand for every game.

[angelman]

To do what? Fill up for Utd and Chelsea and have vast empty spaces against Stoke and Norwich. A few more thousand on the gate for a few matches will bring nothing much to the club. We need to sell out for every league game at SMS as it is first and create new demand for every game.

 

Increase size and the only way to fill the stadium would be to drop prices.

 

(and if they did ever extend, they would have to put a new bridge over the bloody railway lines. It's ridiculous that it takes so long to get over them).

[alpine_saint]

Gaston is the one i really feel can improve under the right manager and a good world cup and pre season.

 

 

Why do you think that ?

[Big Bad Bob]

Gaston is the one i really feel can improve under the right manager and a good world cup and pre season.

 

Osvaldo unless he comes out says sorry shaking Fontes hand and Fonte forgives he is not to play another game for us again.

 

Why do you think that ?

 

Can't talk for sammy but for me he hasn't had a proper run in the team and has been a bit injury prone. When he has come on and been at proper fitness he has shown a lot of promise.

 

We juts need him to stay fit and play regularly and I think you'll see a less gash Gaston..

[Heisenberg]

Danger of risking / hoping / praying that Gaston does finally deliver is his contract is running down fast. He signed a 4 year contract at the end of August 2012.

If he fails to deliver for us again next year, he will have just 1 year left on his contract - how much could we realistically recover then?

According to the below website we paid £13,38 Mill for him. take 3 years of underperforming + 1 year left on contract, wed be lucky to get £3m back for him next summer?

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-southampton/transfers/verein/180/saison_id/2012

 

he could end up costing us £20m!! £10m in transfer fees + a further £10m in wages over 3 years. ouch

Edited 5 June, 2014 by Heisenberg

[JackanorySFC]

Danger of risking / hoping / praying that Gaston does finally deliver is his contract is running down fast. He signed a 4 year contract at the end of August 2012.

If he fails to deliver for us again next year, he will have just 1 year left on his contract - how much could we realistically recover then?

According to the below website we paid £13,38 Mill for him. take 3 years of underperforming + 1 year left on contract, wed be lucky to get £3m back for him next summer?

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-southampton/transfers/verein/180/saison_id/2012

 

he could end up costing us £20m!! £10m in transfer fees + a further £10m in wages over 3 years. ouch

 

Not that you'd know, living in Glasgow, or Alpine living in his asylum, but a fair few of us that go to every game rate the guy. He is clearly very talented and after recovering from his injury was a victim of the success the lads that were starting every week were having.

 

As I say, you need to go to games to appreciate it, but when he plays and gets on the ball there's a buzz about the place. He loses it quite often, the same idiots that moan about that also moan that Cork "only passes sideways" - he's a risk taker. At Saints we've always had a risk taker or 2, I love players like that. I'm pleased we bought him, good to see my ST money go towards a player of his obvious talent, if Lallana goes a lot of responsibility will be on him and he'll need our support. Luckily the stadium has more people like me that get behind our lads than keyboard nutters like you that get a semi from re registering on internet message boards posting 1000's of times a day in a futile attempt to wind people up you've never met in real life.

 

Up the Saints

[View From The Top]

Danger of risking / hoping / praying that Gaston does finally deliver is his contract is running down fast. He signed a 4 year contract at the end of August 2012.

If he fails to deliver for us again next year, he will have just 1 year left on his contract - how much could we realistically recover then?

According to the below website we paid £13,38 Mill for him. take 3 years of underperforming + 1 year left on contract, wed be lucky to get £3m back for him next summer?

 

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-southampton/transfers/verein/180/saison_id/2012

 

he could end up costing us £20m!! £10m in transfer fees + a further £10m in wages over 3 years. ouch

 

Used to be a poster called Glasgow Saint, a right wa*ker, but before your time obviously, who used to go on about bo**oxs like that.

[View From The Top]

Not that you'd know, living in Glasgow, or Alpine living in his asylum, but a fair few of us that go to every game rate the guy. He is clearly very talented and after recovering from his injury was a victim of the success the lads that were starting every week were having.

 

As I say, you need to go to games to appreciate it, but when he plays and gets on the ball there's a buzz about the place. He loses it quite often, the same idiots that moan about that also moan that Cork "only passes sideways" - he's a risk taker. At Saints we've always had a risk taker or 2, I love players like that. I'm pleased we bought him, good to see my ST money go towards a player of his obvious talent, if Lallana goes a lot of responsibility will be on him and he'll need our support. Luckily the stadium has more people like me that get behind our lads than keyboard nutters like you that get a semi from re registering on internet message boards posting 1000's of times a day in a futile attempt to wind people up you've never met in real life.

 

Up the Saints

 

You're not alone. I also thing the lad is utter class. However, he needs to man up this year and show us all that he can lead.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

Used to be a poster called Glasgow Saint, a right wa*ker, but before your time obviously, who used to go on about bo**oxs like that.

 

[sadoldgit]

Sorry david, cant agree. None of our players were considering leaving last year... OK so in part, none were desired by other clubs to te smae level, but it' also about having an environment in which they WANT to be.

 

Whatever folks think about NC and MP, whatever you believe is reality or BS level of the 'plan' - they created an environment in which players at all levels believed Saints was the best place for them.

 

If all of a sudden a high number of players want to leave, then in my book this more about changes in the environment that they dont like, so we need to look at that.

 

Fans go on about loyalty, but seriously, if anyone sill expects that from players they are seriously naive. Even MLT would have gone in this day and age, given the diaparity in wages and lure of CL competition... and if h had stayed, it would have said more about a 'comfort zone' than loyalty... To keep and attcat players, you need a be able to CONVINCE them its the right place for them and their career - yes with wages, but also with belief that success is possible if they willing to work collectively and hard.

 

 

Sorry FC but how do you know that no players wanted to leave last season? Transer talk in and out was almost non existant under Cortese. We are hearing now that Poch had his favourites so I wouldnt be surprised if some of the fringe players were happy. Ramirez was rumoured to be on his way a few times.

[trousers]

Not that you'd know, living in Glasgow, or Alpine living in his asylum, but a fair few of us that go to every game rate the guy. He is clearly very talented and after recovering from his injury was a victim of the success the lads that were starting every week were having.

 

As I say, you need to go to games to appreciate it, but when he plays and gets on the ball there's a buzz about the place. He loses it quite often, the same idiots that moan about that also moan that Cork "only passes sideways" - he's a risk taker. At Saints we've always had a risk taker or 2, I love players like that. I'm pleased we bought him, good to see my ST money go towards a player of his obvious talent, if Lallana goes a lot of responsibility will be on him and he'll need our support. Luckily the stadium has more people like me that get behind our lads than keyboard nutters like you that get a semi from re registering on internet message boards posting 1000's of times a day in a futile attempt to wind people up you've never met in real life.

 

Up the Saints

 

^ This

[Heisenberg]

Not that you'd know, living in Glasgow, or Alpine living in his asylum, but a fair few of us that go to every game rate the guy. He is clearly very talented and after recovering from his injury was a victim of the success the lads that were starting every week were having.

 

As I say, you need to go to games to appreciate it, but when he plays and gets on the ball there's a buzz about the place. He loses it quite often, the same idiots that moan about that also moan that Cork "only passes sideways" - he's a risk taker. At Saints we've always had a risk taker or 2, I love players like that. I'm pleased we bought him, good to see my ST money go towards a player of his obvious talent, if Lallana goes a lot of responsibility will be on him and he'll need our support. Luckily the stadium has more people like me that get behind our lads than keyboard nutters like you that get a semi from re registering on internet message boards posting 1000's of times a day in a futile attempt to wind people up you've never met in real life.

 

Up the Saints

 

Im all for taking risks, but after 2 years and potentially gambling on a £20 million loss..... thats where I as a Saints fan draw the line.

 

He's not worth a £20 million gamble - no chance.

[hypochondriac]

Again, why have the mods allowed Glasgow to reregister if he has been banned?

[Minty]

You're not alone. I also thing the lad is utter class. However, he needs to man up this year and show us all that he can lead.

 

Absolutely. I think there is an issue with mental toughness, consistency, and ball retention (mainly that he can hold on to it too long at times, giving opposition more chance to tackle) but these are things that can be improved, and indeed would be improved just with some regular game time. What is clear is that when he is on the ball and gets his head up, he can produce the goods.

[hans gruber]

The reports I read , said he was pretty good last night for Uruguay.

 

Just like lallana was like a new recruit this season for saints, IMO gaston has a chance to shine. The guy is class, but unfortunately so far he has been 30 percent super and 70 percent crap. With a change of manager if they gel it could work out really well.

[Whitey Grandad]

Not that you'd know, living in Glasgow, or Alpine living in his asylum, but a fair few of us that go to every game rate the guy. He is clearly very talented and after recovering from his injury was a victim of the success the lads that were starting every week were having.

 

As I say, you need to go to games to appreciate it, but when he plays and gets on the ball there's a buzz about the place. He loses it quite often, the same idiots that moan about that also moan that Cork "only passes sideways" - he's a risk taker. At Saints we've always had a risk taker or 2, I love players like that. I'm pleased we bought him, good to see my ST money go towards a player of his obvious talent, if Lallana goes a lot of responsibility will be on him and he'll need our support. Luckily the stadium has more people like me that get behind our lads than keyboard nutters like you that get a semi from re registering on internet message boards posting 1000's of times a day in a futile attempt to wind people up you've never met in real life.

 

Up the Saints

 

^ Thus

[saint1977]

Absolutely. I think there is an issue with mental toughness, consistency, and ball retention (mainly that he can hold on to it too long at times, giving opposition more chance to tackle) but these are things that can be improved, and indeed would be improved just with some regular game time. What is clear is that when he is on the ball and gets his head up, he can produce the goods.

 

Could well come out the shadows when (not if) AL leaves plus maybe a change of formation depending on who the new manager is. He was sensational in some of the early games, got that dead leg IIRC v Newcastle and although he was good v Arsenal and Everton home, never consistently got going again and then MP changed the system around. Overall, MPs changes were much for the better but with a new, pacier front line to drop behind and no AL, this could be Gaston's second chance to impress.

[alpine_saint]

Im all for taking risks, but after 2 years and potentially gambling on a £20 million loss..... thats where I as a Saints fan draw the line.

 

He's not worth a £20 million gamble - no chance.

 

Yep, thats like spunking away all the money we are likely to get for Lallana; all for nothing.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading about Gaston ."He was sensational" , no he wasn't. "He is utter class" , no he's not. He has not produced , he has flattered to deceive since day one. Football is more than looking good and having a few nice touches , he's like a Uruguayan Mr Woo. Nigel didn't really play him, neither did Poch and I doubt if the new guy will. If we're relying on him next season, we'll really be in the shiete.

[Goatboy]

Not that you'd know, living in Glasgow, or Alpine living in his asylum, but a fair few of us that go to every game rate the guy. He is clearly very talented and after recovering from his injury was a victim of the success the lads that were starting every week were having.

 

As I say, you need to go to games to appreciate it, but when he plays and gets on the ball there's a buzz about the place. He loses it quite often, the same idiots that moan about that also moan that Cork "only passes sideways" - he's a risk taker. At Saints we've always had a risk taker or 2, I love players like that. I'm pleased we bought him, good to see my ST money go towards a player of his obvious talent, if Lallana goes a lot of responsibility will be on him and he'll need our support. Luckily the stadium has more people like me that get behind our lads than keyboard nutters like you that get a semi from re registering on internet message boards posting 1000's of times a day in a futile attempt to wind people up you've never met in real life.

 

Up the Saints

 

This.

[Goatboy]

Again, why have the mods allowed Glasgow to reregister if he has been banned?

 

And this.

[Minty]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading about Gaston ."He was sensational" , no he wasn't. "He is utter class" , no he's not. He has not produced , he has flattered to deceive since day one. Football is more than looking good and having a few nice touches , he's like a Uruguayan Mr Woo. Nigel didn't really play him, neither did Poch and I doubt if the new guy will. If we're relying on him next season, we'll really be in the shiete.

 

Making sweeping statements doesn't help (on either side of the argument) and I have highlighted the areas where I think he has let himself down, but also why I think he *can* become a solid player for us. I agree that he has not really 'produced' yet, but I still think he has some class and ability which we are yet to see the best of.

 

It's not as black and white as some make out IMO. But this thread probably shouldn't become solely about Ramirez.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

Yep, thats like spunking away all the money we are likely to get for Lallana; all for nothing.

 

Yet, when he was playing, semi-regularly, the season prior he contributed more than Puncheon.

 

Yet you, and your pal Glasgow (who you seem to lack the awareness is taking the p!ss), spent all last season harping on about how foolish it was to let the player that actually did less go.

 

Because he cost less. I know logic is far from your strong suit, but that is ridiculous, even by your standards. Let's just fill the team with players that do less, but cost less, and are of course English. Otherwise, Alpine & Glasgow will worry about all that money they give to the club not going to games, and b!tching like 5 year old girls on here, being wasted.

 

Yes, Gaston has not delivered to what everyone expected of him. He has been a little lightweight and struggled for fitness. But equally, saying he has done nothing is just as stupid.

 

He is a good player, and there are times when we could have used him last year. It makes me laugh how the people that slate him, also moan about possession football, and as someone said before Cork sideways passing. Yet, when someone tries the killer ball to open up a defence (aka the more risky ball, and the one more likely to lose possession) he is slated.

 

What's that lads, you don't know what you want? Moaning for the sake of it? Completely contradicting yourself?

 

Well, spank my arse and call me Shirley, isn't that a shocker?!

[hans gruber]

I can't believe some of the stuff I'm reading about Gaston ."He was sensational" , no he wasn't. "He is utter class" , no he's not. He has not produced , he has flattered to deceive since day one. Football is more than looking good and having a few nice touches , he's like a Uruguayan Mr Woo. Nigel didn't really play him, neither did Poch and I doubt if the new guy will. If we're relying on him next season, we'll really be in the shiete.

 

 

Sorry but you are wrong.

 

Do you think lallana or lambert could get a game for Uruguay?

 

No me neither

[Big Bad Bob]

Sorry but you are wrong.

 

Do you think lallana or lambert could get a game for Uruguay?

 

No me neither

 

 

Ummmm........

[Lord Duckhunter]

Sorry but you are wrong.

 

Do you think lallana or lambert could get a game for Uruguay?

 

No me neither

 

Gaston can't get a game for us.

[david in sweden]

To .......frank's cousin 227, and sadoldgit 237...........interesting that you had different comments, but I think we're all on the same path.

 

There's no doubt all this newspaper gossip is unsettling to players and fans alike, whereas it may well be " misinformation " to quote Les Reed, (or just a money-making gimmick to feed the bookies).

Personally.... I think most players will stay but the likes of Shaw and Lallana will have " issues " to sort out with the club, but as I said before no matter WHO it is, if they're not happy with the situation then we are better off without them if they are to become a negative influence in the dressing room. No-one likes to work with a colleague who's a " moaner ".

 

Of course Pochettino jumping ship hasn't helped and no-one (outside of the Board) really knows who his successor will be, and until we know we won't know the players' reactions.

Having got used to MP, players will wonder if the new guy will be a kind uncle or an ugly ogre, but that's life in football. If the new guy is good at his job he'll settle the squad down quickly.

 

We finished 8th .....an excellent result (historically) so there is an element of ..." if it aint broke - don't fix it "

 

We know that we need replacements. We were already short of strikers when JayRod got injured.. and now that Rickie has gone .....Sam is the only striker left who's pulled on a first team shirt.

Whether the new people are from Les' wish list.... or the new manager's is immaterial - if they fit in.

 

In the event of losing Shaw and/or Lallana new names will appear anyway....and everyone's hinted at another CB and a Boruc' type clone as good goalie competition so there will be new names on the team sheet anyway, I just don't think we should persist for ages with those who aren't 100% convinced that they want to be here.

[hans gruber]

Gaston can't get a game for us.

 

 

Duck

 

I understand you are angry because he hasn't delivered. I agree. But he has class, his first season actually wasn't bad either really, second season for whatever reason/excuse he didn't deliver. Class isn't his problem. Hopefully under new management his application/fitness/ desire , whatever will improve. If not I vote we smash his kneecaps.