Admin in January

[trousers]

Absolutely.

 

Amazing so may dont get it. I wonder why they follow SFC at all and not ManYoo.

 

IF SFC dies, it dies. I will be sad, but my club will be the one that rises phoenix-like from the ashes with the word "Southampton" in the name somewhere, whatever division they are in.

 

Here, Here

[Hopkins]

So apparently i'm not allowed to start a thread so this one will do.

 

Spoke to a player today. Young first team centre back to be precise and he's pretty certain Lallana and Surman will NOT be leaving in January.

 

That is all.

[saint63]

Nothing changes - the usual drama queen's banging their drums until their match day silence at SMS. Gentlemen one very poor performance and here you are latching all your hopes on to it as a way of undermining the club and those trying to saving it. AFC Southampton - that's a scenario that will really have the punters flocking to Stoneham Lane, is it?

 

It was a shocking game but I think a large part of the blame for that performance was the shocking and inept displays from the likes of James, Lallana, McGoldrick and surprise surprise Mr 12kpw Skacel himself. If you want to sharpen your swords then can I respectfully suggest you aim them towards Skacel and McGoldrick for starters, as for most of the game we were playing with 9 men and a couple of disinterested, talentless and clueless players that have ever graced SMS and that really is saying something.

 

Surman's casual approach cost us their 2nd goal and his desire for 90% of the time to play it sideways or behind him he makes Ray Wilkins look penetrative with about 1% of his footballing brain. £3m for Surman and Lallana, yes please where do we sign?

 

Every team has a bad day, Bristol Rovers and Hull last season. Lets hope Jan realises that a few of the players need an enforced Christmas holiday and the attitude displayed by some of them today, Skacel in particular, perhaps that is the eventuality he actually played for. At least 5 of our players badly let us down today and hopefully the management recognise that fact and deal with it accordingly.

 

Only 1pt above relegation with half the season to play for it is better than being in the bottom 3 after 45 games and needing a win and some favours for survival.

 

Huffton, with respect but the quality of your posts would suggest your 'source' doesn't have a clue and is probably a disgruntled steward or member of the catering staff. People who really know this type of thing are unlikely to release information to someone as antagonistic as you and tbh I would have believed it more had it come from someone like Um Pahars whose views I have major issues with and can't see us sharing a beer anytime soon but at least he can support his arguments and snippets with some salient points and business knowledge inside or otherwise. Don't tell us, you were in the john at the time, Jesus (well it is Christmas) and I have a reputation as a troll.

 

Happy Christmas everyone I'm off on my hols.

 

What game were you watching?? Skacel was one of our our better players!!I prefer to judge players on performance rather than the size of their wages.

[BGF]

So apparently i'm not allowed to start a thread so this one will do.

 

Spoke to a player today. Young first team centre back to be precise and he's pretty certain Lallana and Surman will NOT be leaving in January.

 

That is all.

 

Ah but they could be sold & loaned back until the end of the season, therefore they wont be leaving in January.

[saintwarwick]

This pathetic acceptance that Lowe will pick all of the club up in administration is ridiculous.

 

The likes of Gavin Davies could outbid Lowe with his pocket money,and with others likely to be certain to make sure that they will thwart Lowe,he has no chance.

 

It could be that this certainty of being outbid in administration is the reason for Lowe coming back,as he knows administration will mean he loses the lot.

 

Then why has Gavin Davies not done anything about it?

[wild-saint]

I can foresee a situation where the highest bidder for the club offers a nominal £1, but a developer offers £8m or so for the stadium as housing.

 

Its not as simple as going into admin, having all the debts magically wiped away and starting with a fresh sheet.

 

Of course it is. Do you really think that a developer would buy the land and then hope (and thats a big HOPE) that the council would agree to change the use of the land to anything other than a sports stadium? Hiw uch would it cost to demolish and then fid they get no planning permission? Thats what will save the club as the only thing any new prospective owner could do with thier shiney new purchase is to rent it out to someone. I dont think anyone but saints would be interested.

[alpine_saint]

So apparently i'm not allowed to start a thread so this one will do.

 

Spoke to a player today. Young first team centre back to be precise and he's pretty certain Lallana and Surman will NOT be leaving in January.

 

That is all.

 

With all due respect, I find it highly unlikely that Lowe discusses business plans with "young first-team centre backs"

[alpine_saint]

Of course it is. Do you really think that a developer would buy the land and then hope (and thats a big HOPE) that the council would agree to change the use of the land to anything other than a sports stadium? Hiw uch would it cost to demolish and then fid they get no planning permission? Thats what will save the club as the only thing any new prospective owner could do with thier shiney new purchase is to rent it out to someone. I dont think anyone but saints would be interested.

 

My point exactly.

[alpine_saint]

Then why has Gavin Davies not done anything about it?

 

He didnt want to when Lowe was in charge before, he made that clear in his Echo piece.

 

I would suggest he doesnt want to now for the same reason.

 

In between ? Maybe he expected this sort of thing to happen as soon it became apparent that Lowe and the rest of the Lavender Hill Mob were not going to sell their shares.

[NickG]

plc -available for sale -anyone really interested can buy us anf oust Lowe. (been done before!)

[miserableoldgit]

With all due respect, I find it highly unlikely that Lowe discusses business plans with "young first-team centre backs"

Probably not but it is possible that the players talk to each other and both Surman and Lallana MAY have some idea already regarding their own future.

[Victor]

With all due respect, I find it highly unlikely that Lowe discusses business plans with "young first-team centre backs"

 

But do you not think it likely that the young first team centre-back discusses things with his team mates? Lowe may want them sold, but contractually they are allowed an opinion on their own futures.

[mcjwills]

This is excellent news isn't it?

 

We'd have no debts, so could restructure the playing side, and Lowe could get the team that he deserves

 

And we could look forward to may more relegation battles playingh teams like the mighty Aldershot in 2 seasons time.

[Chez]

It was Surman, I watched it this morning - don't ask why

 

to be exact it was a poor pass from Surman to Gasmi that was underhit. Gasmi certainly could have made a challenge, he probably would not have won it, but he bottled it and the rest is hist-o-ry.

[Charlie Wayman]

So apparently i'm not allowed to start a thread so this one will do.

 

Spoke to a player today. Young first team centre back to be precise and he's pretty certain Lallana and Surman will NOT be leaving in January.

 

That is all.

 

Probably because they are not good enough for the premiership and will only attract interest from CCC teams. Nearly all clubs in the CCC will be seeking to REDUCE their wages bills in Jan with much off-loading and not much new buying so bids very unlikely.

 

No doubt Lowe has already sounded out his pals and got stone-walled; (£2M laddie, do me a favour, **** off!) hence no money coming in January; hence banks force foreclosure; hence the rumours.

[eelpie]

We had this debate a few months ago, and I believe it was pointed out that there would still be a further points deduction next season. Can anyone clarify?

[1976_Child]

This is excellent news isn't it?

 

We'd have no debts, so could restructure the playing side, and Lowe could get the team that he deserves

 

Errr not sure it works like that! Wish that it did. Being in administration does NOT mean that one's debts are wiped away. The assets would be sold and/or a buyer found. And, as in the case of Woolworths, if no buyer is found to pay off the debts then the business (club) is shut down. Which I guess would mean that the playing side would be restructured in a sense as they would all be handed their P45's.....

 

let's hope it don't happen

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Errr not sure it works like that! Wish that it did. Being in administration does NOT mean that one's debts are wiped away. The assets would be sold and/or a buyer found. And, as in the case of Woolworths, if no buyer is found to pay off the debts then the business (club) is shut down. Which I guess would mean that the playing side would be restructured in a sense as they would all be handed their P45's.....

 

let's hope it don't happen

 

I think that whoever proposes to take over has to have a plan (obviously?) to propose a CVA? Which sees creditors get a 'dividend' on their debt? So people like HMRC get a good wedge to shut up and accept and then 'lesser; creditors have little choice in accepting the proposal.

 

I think it's the CVA which caused Leeds extra problems with the Taxman.

 

A CVA lets the company continue to trade, under certain conditions, but with limits on what they can actually do (transfers in) until the CVA is satisfied and they are discharged. At this point the club then gets it's bond back from the league.

 

That's my simplistic take on it.

[bridge too far]

I think that whoever proposes to take over has to have a plan (obviously?) to propose a CVA? Which sees creditors get a 'dividend' on their debt? So people like HMRC get a good wedge to shut up and accept and then 'lesser; creditors have little choice in accepting the proposal.

 

I think it's the CVA which caused Leeds extra problems with the Taxman.

 

A CVA lets the company continue to trade, under certain conditions, but with limits on what they can actually do (transfers in) until the CVA is satisfied and they are discharged. At this point the club then gets it's bond back from the league.

 

That's my simplistic take on it.

 

And I think the Football League won't grant the 'golden share' certificate to allow the team to take part in the division if the CVA isn't agreed?

 

Or it could be 'golden shower' as far as our lot are concerned :oops:

Edited 23 December, 2008 by bridge too far

[Wade Garrett]

This pathetic acceptance that Lowe will pick all of the club up in administration is ridiculous.

 

The likes of Gavin Davies could outbid Lowe with his pocket money,and with others likely to be certain to make sure that they will thwart Lowe,he has no chance.

 

It could be that this certainty of being outbid in administration is the reason for Lowe coming back,as he knows administration will mean he loses the lot.

 

I am uncomfortable about admin, as it could give Lowe the chance to pick the club up for a song.

 

I don't think Gavyn Davies loves the club as much as he says. Lowe is a pygmy in comparison, yet Davies has done nothing.

[Big Bad Bob]

We had this debate a few months ago, and I believe it was pointed out that there would still be a further points deduction next season. Can anyone clarify?

 

The further points deduction is uusually for 'not coming out of administration properly' ie via a CVA.

 

Generally a CVA is not possible as the major debtor is (generally) the Inland Revenue. They don't like the way the Football league want Football Debtors paid in full first and then a CVA for non-football debtors, hence they don't tend to agree to CVAs, therefore club not coming out of admin properly.

 

That's what I understand anyway, I may be wrong

[Gemmel]

I don't think we are near administration.

In the prem, 22,000 was the break even figure bandied around and then 19000 for the championship (We are a very differet squad to when this figure was first discussed)....... The squad on the payroll isn't a proper championship side and with the exception of Skachel and Ewell, most of our big earners are being paid by other clubs. We are taking on new coaches and trainees and left for the palace game on the Saturday before the monday match, (about £5,000 i reckon) every junior Saint got a parcel where the postage alone was over a £1 ....... small things i know, but not the sign of a bust club. Lowe himself has starte making mutterings about the finances now being managable with just Norwich Union left to agree new terms.

Don't get me wrong, i know we are skint and have debts, but i don't think it's at administartion levels. Administration would serve no purpose for our two main creditors, so unless we have fooked the tax man over, I don't think (IMHO) that either Barclays or NU would want us or put us in adminisration

[Window Cleaner]

 

 

Perhaps hedgefunding isn't what it used to be.

Can't remember just how much Fulcrum lost on SemprMacro before they sacked

the Goldman Sachs wallahs.

[Frank's cousin]

Please help me out here.... I wa sjust wiondering why anyone with any sense is interested in in investing in football? We have heard the usual grumblings of the likes of Davies 'not interested whilst Lowe is here' - sorry Alps but this is ****** - he is just not interested in wasting his money full stop. The ONLY way a club of our size can make money is by LIVING WITHIN ITS MEANS IN THE PREM. This means turning a small profit of about 1.5 mil a year and restricting wages within a structure based on performance and only really spending income from player sales on transfers. That way you investment gets you a very modest return. EG exactlythe model we had under Lowe in the prem.

 

This however does not work to keep you there, as we have seen, with clubs needing annual investment in ever better players just to stand still - which is fine for the top 4 with international appeal and Champions league income, or those with a sugar daddy who has retired and is spunking away his childrens inheritance on his last hoorah, every one else just gets into bigger debt.

 

The alternative is of course to invest in academies and youth and hope that this instills some grater loyalty and that young players who grow up together have that competitive edge associated with homegrown talent - and also invest in the infrastructure and sports science to provide every possible advantage that is usually beyond the revenue streams of a mid table provincial prem club.... sound a bit familiar that does it not?

 

I suggest that if anyone but Lowe had recently purchased the club and said the words above as their vision and strategy for remaining competitive in the prem, would they be applauded or would they be immediately castigated and ridiculed?

 

I dont believe Lowe's mistakes were in the strategy, but in the implementation - the manager merry-go-round, etc. The problem here was simple - the traditional and old school experienced managers dont want to be told that the startegy is this, and here is how its going to be and work within these restrictions - they want the freedom to do as they pleae and spunk whatever money they wish up the wall - whereas the strategy requires coaches who are fully committed to bringing through talent and happy to manage by getting the best from the squad rather than squad churn - often encouraged by the greedy agents and the greedy players themselves.

 

BUt as we inow, until the majority of clubs come together and say enough is enough, we will not be held to ransome by players and agents, the strategy has an additional flaw - you get left behind and most likely relegated whilst teh kids are developing - and then on relegation the agents stream in, the bets players leave, the best kids are exploited elsewhere as the huge income loss determines who stays and who goes..... a sad familiar tale.

 

So ultimately, unless someone is willing to LOSE(invest) say 20 mil a season to provide additional income over and above TV revenues and gates in the prem, we would yo yo or always be where we usually were struggling against relegation. The good Strachan season was the anomoly - and like all small clubs if you have a good season, it attracts the vultures and th best playesr (bridge etc) are off to the bigger stages. Same happened to Levejkusen after a champions league final - off go 3 players to Bayern Munich.... no one is immune apart form the big clubs.

 

So my guess thats why we wont see Davies involved - he sees the bigger picture and the way fans react and blame the board for what is an almost impossible situation now - fans expectations no matter how reasonable now, would be raised if we were to get a sniff of promotion and then unless we saw massive investmnet of someones personal funds , be dashed in the weekly defeats.

 

And lest be honest, with out prem football, the gates will continue to decline as the media and cultural pressures persist in creating a football culture of bigger is better and the extra revenues generated by Sky by when showing the top 4 justifies their promotion of the prem as a 4 club league - why would any kid want to support a club outside this elite --- 'what a loser' etc...

 

So Alps, a couple f points for you to get your teeth into;

 

1. I have never supported any individual over another - I have supported a strategy - even though i can see its flaws - and i have always been weary of those with silver tongues and nice fan friendly platitudes and gestures, but little strategy

 

2. I dont think Lowe is driven by spite, but by ego - as many have said its probably freudian in its size - yet this is actually ideal in a club chairman to some degree. - I believe he would like nothing better than to be able to deliver success based on HIS strategies - teh sports science and kids delivery the very best to siants and being able to stick two fingures up at all the 'klingons'. - I believe he still believes he can, if we can get through this curernt crunch - however misguided or realistic this idealism is, I dont ahve a crystal ball and strange things happen in football everyday.

 

3. Administration is not scary - this is fotball and we all understand the implications of the money in the modern game currently causing clubs to stutter uner the financial strains - the club will be around in some guise in whatever league so long as their are fans who want to go and watch - what we have to ask ourselves is, are we prepared to provide the 'lifeblood' of the club and keep it going whoever is in the boardroom and whatever strategy it is they are adopting - and we each have our own opinion and threshold as to what we are prepared to witness on the pitch v the cost to the wallet.

 

4. True fans have no ego - I do believe this - it should never be about the success of the club, but about the pride and loyalty we have in it - its what keeps the 100 or so each week at Eastleigh etc - we get that right and the personalities doing what they wish in charge become less and less of an issue to what the club is really all about - for me something that was best illustrated in recent times by the sportsmanship and sheer overwhelming emotion of our fans at Cardiff in '03 and the turn out for Danny Wallaces MS match.

 

Ultimately, though IMHO its time we stopped using Lowe as the excuse for division and current lack of interest and success - and actually acted on the words so many like to use - 'We the fans ARE the club' - if that is indeed true, what does the current fanbase tell us about what kind of club we actually are?

[um pahars]

Ultimately' date=' though IMHO its time we stopped using Lowe as the excuse for division and current lack of interest and success - and actually acted on the words so many like to use - 'We the fans ARE the club' - if that is indeed true, what does the current fanbase tell us about what kind of club we actually are?[/quote']

 

I don't think many would argue with your underlying synopsis, but the biggest issue people have is with the delivery of the strategy.

 

Being in charge is about getting the key decisions right, and this is something we have fallen down on from Sturrock, Wigley, Redknapp and now Poortvliet.

 

It's all very well having a vision and a strategy, but when it is rendered totally useless due to poor application then that's when you have a problem. And that's exactly where we find ourselves (again).

 

But your last quote (above) is so wide of the mark, that I'm not sure whether I find it embarrassing or insulting. The dark cloud of Lowe is all over this Club, from the relationship with the supporters right through to results on the pitch due to his choice of manager.

 

He has never really fostered a sense of togetherness (in fact most of his fan interaction is a divide and rule concept), he was the overiding architect of a PLC that operates first and foremost as a business, where we are mere customers.

 

Ultimately he has reaped what he has sown and customers have turned their back on a product/company that has failed to deliver, and which they no longer have any deep affinity with.

 

There are a myriad of reasons why people have turneed their back on the Club, and sadly Lowe is implicated in many of them. You would be better off seeking a cure, rather than seeking to continually examine the symptons.

[saint1977]

Please help me out here.... I wa sjust wiondering why anyone with any sense is interested in in investing in football? We have heard the usual grumblings of the likes of Davies 'not interested whilst Lowe is here' - sorry Alps but this is ****** - he is just not interested in wasting his money full stop. The ONLY way a club of our size can make money is by LIVING WITHIN ITS MEANS IN THE PREM. This means turning a small profit of about 1.5 mil a year and restricting wages within a structure based on performance and only really spending income from player sales on transfers. That way you investment gets you a very modest return. EG exactlythe model we had under Lowe in the prem.

 

This however does not work to keep you there, as we have seen, with clubs needing annual investment in ever better players just to stand still - which is fine for the top 4 with international appeal and Champions league income, or those with a sugar daddy who has retired and is spunking away his childrens inheritance on his last hoorah, every one else just gets into bigger debt.

 

The alternative is of course to invest in academies and youth and hope that this instills some grater loyalty and that young players who grow up together have that competitive edge associated with homegrown talent - and also invest in the infrastructure and sports science to provide every possible advantage that is usually beyond the revenue streams of a mid table provincial prem club.... sound a bit familiar that does it not?

 

I suggest that if anyone but Lowe had recently purchased the club and said the words above as their vision and strategy for remaining competitive in the prem, would they be applauded or would they be immediately castigated and ridiculed?

 

I dont believe Lowe's mistakes were in the strategy, but in the implementation - the manager merry-go-round, etc. The problem here was simple - the traditional and old school experienced managers dont want to be told that the startegy is this, and here is how its going to be and work within these restrictions - they want the freedom to do as they pleae and spunk whatever money they wish up the wall - whereas the strategy requires coaches who are fully committed to bringing through talent and happy to manage by getting the best from the squad rather than squad churn - often encouraged by the greedy agents and the greedy players themselves.

 

BUt as we inow, until the majority of clubs come together and say enough is enough, we will not be held to ransome by players and agents, the strategy has an additional flaw - you get left behind and most likely relegated whilst teh kids are developing - and then on relegation the agents stream in, the bets players leave, the best kids are exploited elsewhere as the huge income loss determines who stays and who goes..... a sad familiar tale.

 

So ultimately, unless someone is willing to LOSE(invest) say 20 mil a season to provide additional income over and above TV revenues and gates in the prem, we would yo yo or always be where we usually were struggling against relegation. The good Strachan season was the anomoly - and like all small clubs if you have a good season, it attracts the vultures and th best playesr (bridge etc) are off to the bigger stages. Same happened to Levejkusen after a champions league final - off go 3 players to Bayern Munich.... no one is immune apart form the big clubs.

 

So my guess thats why we wont see Davies involved - he sees the bigger picture and the way fans react and blame the board for what is an almost impossible situation now - fans expectations no matter how reasonable now, would be raised if we were to get a sniff of promotion and then unless we saw massive investmnet of someones personal funds , be dashed in the weekly defeats.

 

And lest be honest, with out prem football, the gates will continue to decline as the media and cultural pressures persist in creating a football culture of bigger is better and the extra revenues generated by Sky by when showing the top 4 justifies their promotion of the prem as a 4 club league - why would any kid want to support a club outside this elite --- 'what a loser' etc...

 

So Alps, a couple f points for you to get your teeth into;

 

1. I have never supported any individual over another - I have supported a strategy - even though i can see its flaws - and i have always been weary of those with silver tongues and nice fan friendly platitudes and gestures, but little strategy

 

2. I dont think Lowe is driven by spite, but by ego - as many have said its probably freudian in its size - yet this is actually ideal in a club chairman to some degree. - I believe he would like nothing better than to be able to deliver success based on HIS strategies - teh sports science and kids delivery the very best to siants and being able to stick two fingures up at all the 'klingons'. - I believe he still believes he can, if we can get through this curernt crunch - however misguided or realistic this idealism is, I dont ahve a crystal ball and strange things happen in football everyday.

 

3. Administration is not scary - this is fotball and we all understand the implications of the money in the modern game currently causing clubs to stutter uner the financial strains - the club will be around in some guise in whatever league so long as their are fans who want to go and watch - what we have to ask ourselves is, are we prepared to provide the 'lifeblood' of the club and keep it going whoever is in the boardroom and whatever strategy it is they are adopting - and we each have our own opinion and threshold as to what we are prepared to witness on the pitch v the cost to the wallet.

 

4. True fans have no ego - I do believe this - it should never be about the success of the club, but about the pride and loyalty we have in it - its what keeps the 100 or so each week at Eastleigh etc - we get that right and the personalities doing what they wish in charge become less and less of an issue to what the club is really all about - for me something that was best illustrated in recent times by the sportsmanship and sheer overwhelming emotion of our fans at Cardiff in '03 and the turn out for Danny Wallaces MS match.

 

Ultimately, though IMHO its time we stopped using Lowe as the excuse for division and current lack of interest and success - and actually acted on the words so many like to use - 'We the fans ARE the club' - if that is indeed true, what does the current fanbase tell us about what kind of club we actually are?

 

Most of that post is to the usual excellent FC standard but the last 2 paragraphs are just plain inaccurate and wrong. True fans do not like being talked down to when they (as "Doubting Thomases" to use one of RL's phrases) can see the CEO has made an incompetent mess YET again, even if the muppet of a major shareholder can't see it. We are quite entitled to vote with our shares, our voices and our feet if we see consistently poor management and an unwillingness to listen and learn from basic mistakes.

[1965onwards]

Beautifully put UP.