Administration is the ONLY way to break this downward spiral

[mynameisthehulk]

I have explained the reasons behind my opinion.

 

Simply put, the club might have a future if it happens at the right time - now.

 

If the club drags on into next season and it happens then (and I reckon it is a foregone conclusion unless a buyer suddenly appears), we are finished. Negative points next season would most likely see us in the 4th tier the season after, and we already look doomed to the 3rd tier.

 

I understand about the points decuction, but what about the selling off of assets? What benefit is there of going into administration when we will have to sell everything, everyone?

[alpine_saint]

I understand about the points decuction, but what about the selling off of assets? What benefit is there of going into administration when we will have to sell everything, everyone?

 

Are we not doing that already, or do you need to see "For Sale" signs up at SMS before reality sinks in ?

[mynameisthehulk]

Are we not doing that already, or do you need to see "For Sale" signs up at SMS before reality sinks in ?

 

Not talking about just the players, Staplewood, Jacksons Farm, anything that isnt nailed down will be sold Alpine, they might even see if they can get a price for you, although you are priceless

[alpine_saint]

Not talking about just the players, Staplewood, Jacksons Farm, anything that isnt nailed down will be sold Alpine, they might even see if they can get a price for you, although you are priceless

 

Do you REALLY think Lowe isnt already trying to sell anything not bolted down ?

[mynameisthehulk]

Do you REALLY think Lowe isnt already trying to sell anything not bolted down ?

 

I dont think he is trying to sell the training facilities thats for sure. Dont get me wrong, I am not about Lowe or Wilde or Crouch or any of that bullsh1t, I am about SFC.

[TopGun]

Do you REALLY think Lowe isnt already trying to sell anything not bolted down ?

 

It is a fair point being made Alps. There is no doubt that Staplewood etc would be carved off by administrators. A post-admin team made up of pub players will be training at Trojans or on the Common. No academy, no facilities, nothing.

[Anders]

I may be wrong but don't we lease the training ground?

[um pahars]

I may be wrong but don't we lease the training ground?

 

We own a part and we lease a part.

[badgerx16]

Given our current form and standard of performance, the squad as it stands is in real danger of going down ; if in January we have to sell off AS and AL, as has been consistently rumoured, together with anybody else who attracts an offer, the situation on the pitch will only get worse. Either way we go down, and with it will come inevitable administration. :mad:

 

Taking the admin after March will lead to us starting next season on negative points. Taking the admin now will lose us points now, lead to relegation, but we will start on zero next season, therefore we would actually be better off taking it now.

 

I think that is the main point of Alpine's original post.

 

God I'm depressed.

[alpine_saint]

Given our current form and standard of performance, the squad as it stands is in real danger of going down ; if in January we have to sell off AS and AL, as has been consistently rumoured, together with anybody else who attracts an offer, the situation on the pitch will only get worse. Either way we go down, and with it will come inevitable administration. :mad:

 

Taking the admin after March will lead to us starting next season on negative points. Taking the admin now will lose us points now, lead to relegation, but we will start on zero next season, therefore we would actually be better off taking it now.

 

I think that is the main point of Alpine's original post.

 

God I'm depressed.

 

That and the fact that it is always possible someone else will come forward and we will also get a Lowe-free and Wilde-free future.

[buctootim]

I can foresee a situation where the highest bidder for the club offers a nominal £1, but a developer offers £8m or so for the stadium as housing.

 

Its not as simple as going into admin, having all the debts magically wiped away and starting with a fresh sheet.

[alpine_saint]

I can foresee a situation where the highest bidder for the club offers a nominal £1, but a developer offers £8m or so for the stadium as housing.

 

Its not as simple as going into admin, having all the debts magically wiped away and starting with a fresh sheet.

 

Rubbish - who is going to build houses at the moment ? And besides, the Council may well refuse planning permission.

[buctootim]

Rubbish - who is going to build houses at the moment ? And besides, the Council may well refuse planning permission.

 

On what grounds? In that area a developer would be sure to win on appeal. Developments initiated now would be built and ready to sell in three years, pefect timing for the next upswing.

[alpine_saint]

On what grounds? In that area a developer would be sure to win on appeal. Developments initiated now would be built and ready to sell in three years, pefect timing for the next upswing.

 

So why are developers pulling out of deals all over the place at the moment ?

 

I hear the old Tyrrel & Green site is being raized to the ground and returned to part of the park because the developer has pulled out.

[buctootim]

So why are developers pulling out of deals all over the place at the moment ?

 

I hear the old Tyrrel & Green site is being raized to the ground and returned to part of the park because the developer has pulled out.

 

Thats commercial property. Theres been a huge excess of offices and shops built over the past 10 years. Not so with housing.

[alpine_saint]

Thats commercial property. Theres been a huge excess of offices and shops built over the past 10 years. Not so with housing.

 

So why is the VT site re-development taking so long to start ?

[OldNick]

what a surprise people wanting to dance on our grave.

For fans stuck in Austria it wouldnt effect you like the ones who turn up every week.

Administration is something that the club would never easily recover from and its madness to think we could start next season on minus 10 and not get relegated again as the club and fans do not have the stomach for it.

[buctootim]

So why is the VT site re-development taking so long to start ?

 

Because you dont launch new projects in the middle of a recession. You do it as the next boom starts. Like I said, three years or so. Builders take options on land all the time, but may not exercise them for years. Thats the land bank system.

[alpine_saint]

what a surprise people wanting to dance on our grave.

For fans stuck in Austria it wouldnt effect you like the ones who turn up every week.

Administration is something that the club would never easily recover from and its madness to think we could start next season on minus 10 and not get relegated again as the club and fans do not have the stomach for it.

 

Feel better now you have that out of your system ???

[alpine_saint]

Because you dont launch new projects in the middle of a recession. You do it as the next boom starts. Like I said, three years or so. Builders take options on land all the time, but may not exercise them for years. Thats the land bank system.

 

And what if SCC want to preserve football in Soton and dont play ball ???

[buctootim]

And what if SCC want to preserve football in Soton and dont play ball ???

 

The administrator will take the route which returns most cash to the creditors who have lost out. If the SMS site comes up for sale at a bargain price (for a builder) someone will buy it. I live in Brighton. Take a visit to Toys R Us to see what happened to the Goldstone Ground when the Seagulls got strapped for cash.

[badgerx16]

what a surprise people wanting to dance on our grave.

For fans stuck in Austria it wouldnt effect you like the ones who turn up every week.

Administration is something that the club would never easily recover from and its madness to think we could start next season on minus 10 and not get relegated again as the club and fans do not have the stomach for it.

Nick, by the end of Boxing Day we will most likely be in the bottom three, and heading for the abyss anyway.

[alpine_saint]

The administrator will take the route which returns most cash to the creditors who have lost out. If the SMS site comes up for sale at a bargain price (for a builder) someone will buy it. I live in Brighton. Take a visit to Toys R Us to see what happened to the Goldstone Ground when the Seagulls got strapped for cash.

 

They...need...planning...permission

[OldNick]

Feel better now you have that out of your system ???

No I am in a foul mood.

[TopGun]

And what if SCC want to preserve football in Soton and dont play ball ???

 

If they refuse planning permission to consent the land for housing it would go on appeal to the planning inspectorate which is nothing to do with SCC. The inspectorate view issues dispassionately and there is no reason not to build housing on the SMS site whatsoever.

[alpine_saint]

No I am in a foul mood.

 

Dont blame you. You have my sympathies. I assume you decided to subject yourself to that farcical mess ?

[buctootim]

They...need...planning...permission

 

It fits with the regional plan. Southampton CC cant refuse for no valid reason. They will likely lose on appeal and have to pay massive costs. Get it now?

[bridge too far]

Since the major housebuilders (Persimmon, Taylor Woodrow, Bovis) have written down the value of land they already hold, I think they are unlikely to buy any more at this time.

[lordswoodsaints]

isnt it worth giving it a go in the hope we stay up or giving up and going into admin?

if we get relegated then we wil be in the same boat as if we go into admin so we might as well fight for our survival.

[alpine_saint]

Since the major housebuilders (Persimmon, Taylor Woodrow, Bovis) have written down the value of land they already hold, I think they are unlikely to buy any more at this time.

 

I dont think so either, but even if they do, so f**king what ?

 

Is SFC a stadium or a club ?

 

Seems many of our fans have already forgotten their humble Dell beginnings..

[Ponty]

It's hard to argue that it would break the downward spiral, albeit by turning it into a downward straight-line.

[badgerx16]

isnt it worth giving it a go in the hope we stay up or giving up and going into admin?

if we get relegated then we wil be in the same boat as if we go into admin so we might as well fight for our survival.

If I thought for a second this team and manager knew how to fight for survival it would help. The problem is they seem incapable of 'giving it a go' and will meekly surrender each and every home game with the same 'positive' drivel being spouted by Jan the man.

[TopGun]

I dont think so either, but even if they do, so f**king what ?

 

Is SFC a stadium or a club ?

 

Seems many of our fans have already forgotten their humble Dell beginnings..

 

A ground share with Eastleigh wouldn't be a great outcome of administration would it?

[alpine_saint]

A ground share with Eastleigh wouldn't be a great outcome of administration would it?

 

Seems a minor drop to me compared to those we have witnessed over the last few years.

 

Why cant the Northam Ueber-fans go and wave their STs at anyone who fancies catching an opportunistic game there, equally as well as at SMS ?

[alpine_saint]

It's hard to argue that it would break the downward spiral, albeit by turning it into a downward straight-line.

 

So you reckon doing next season (putting off the inevitable for as long as possible) is better, do you ?

 

I disagree. I see no point is wasting more time on this crap set-up and F**king up more seasons than necessary..

[Daren W]

Sorry John, I'm afraid you're seriously wrong here. What I do advocate is not "doing something" due to a misguided belief that it's better than "doing nothing" and that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

 

Present me with a plausible alternative that has a realistic chance of success and I'l be all over it.

 

Valid point when you consider we went with Wilde under the assumption that "Anything other than Lowe" was the way to go. It wasn't.

 

Just as anyone other than Burley wasn't the way to go. Like it or under him, failure was not making the playoffs. No one serious had us a relegation candidates. We are now.

 

But that said, things cannot go on the way they are. You evoke some strong emotions here by calling those fans giving up as cowards and then suggest we stay with the staus quo. Is that not another form of cowardice? Is sticking with something that clearly isn't working not cowardly? Is simply stating "we can't afford anything better" not just sticking your head in the sand and hoping things get better?

 

There seems to be this mentality that getting rid of a manager that isn't working is somehow weak. We'll think nothing of dropping or transfer listing a player that isn't right for the team, why not the manager? It's not bad luck to sack a manager that isn't right for the club, you won't get 7 years bad luck for it.

 

I like Portvliet, I like his attitude but for the life of me I don't get this one formation home and away nonsense and I refuse to accept that fear of failure is what's stalling our home form. It's playing a formation that works well away from home but is just being picked away at at home. We have no plan B, if that's the right word for it. We have a formation and that's it. It's naive and child like and belongs in Championship manager with the people who don't have the imagination, the know how or the balls to do something different.

 

I just feel no affinity to this club any more. Its arrogant and out of touch with it's customers and thinks that the threat of administration and the lack of money can excuse all sorts of incompetence and idiocy. This board got us relegated. This board has continually ****ed up and is directly responsible for the plight we're in today. For them to now sit in their ivory towers, safe in the knowledge that their shares in the club will keep them in power is, to be truthful, rather sickening.

 

And for the record administration is not the way forward either. If we're ****ed off and dismayed at this level of perfomance, how would they feel at having 7 points from the same amount of games, in League One????

 

Administraion would be suicide for this club and, as with Leeds, there's no guarantee we'd be rid of Lowe or Wilde either... .. and god knows, for this club to advance further, those two have got to go....

[Ponty]

So you reckon doing next season (putting off the inevitable for as long as possible) is better, do you ?

 

I disagree. I see no point is wasting more time on this crap set-up and F**king up more seasons than necessary..

 

I reckon not going into administration is better than going into administration. It's a no-brainer I'm afraid.

[OldNick]

Valid point when you consider we went with Wilde under the assumption that "Anything other than Lowe" was the way to go. It wasn't.

 

Just as anyone other than Burley wasn't the way to go. Like it or under him, failure was not making the playoffs. No one serious had us a relegation candidates. We are now.

 

But that said, things cannot go on the way they are. You evoke some strong emotions here by calling those fans giving up as cowards and then suggest we stay with the staus quo. Is that not another form of cowardice? Is sticking with something that clearly isn't working not cowardly? Is simply stating "we can't afford anything better" not just sticking your head in the sand and hoping things get better?

 

There seems to be this mentality that getting rid of a manager that isn't working is somehow weak. We'll think nothing of dropping or transfer listing a player that isn't right for the team, why not the manager? It's not bad luck to sack a manager that isn't right for the club, you won't get 7 years bad luck for it.

 

I like Portvliet, I like his attitude but for the life of me I don't get this one formation home and away nonsense and I refuse to accept that fear of failure is what's stalling our home form. It's playing a formation that works well away from home but is just being picked away at at home. We have no plan B, if that's the right word for it. We have a formation and that's it. It's naive and child like and belongs in Championship manager with the people who don't have the imagination, the know how or the balls to do something different.

 

I just feel no affinity to this club any more. Its arrogant and out of touch with it's customers and thinks that the threat of administration and the lack of money can excuse all sorts of incompetence and idiocy. This board got us relegated. This board has continually ****ed up and is directly responsible for the plight we're in today. For them to now sit in their ivory towers, safe in the knowledge that their shares in the club will keep them in power is, to be truthful, rather sickening.

 

And for the record administration is not the way forward either. If we're ****ed off and dismayed at this level of perfomance, how would they feel at having 7 points from the same amount of games, in League One????

 

Administraion would be suicide for this club and, as with Leeds, there's no guarantee we'd be rid of Lowe or Wilde either... .. and god knows, for this club to advance further, those two have got to go....

I dont agree with this in chapter in verse but so much is correct.

[70's Mike]

I dont agree with this in chapter in verse but so much is correct.

 

 

which bits do you disagree with Nick. ?

[alpine_saint]

And for the record administration is not the way forward either. If we're ****ed off and dismayed at this level of perfomance, how would they feel at having 7 points from the same amount of games, in League One????

 

got to go....

 

I dont buy the "administration is suicide" thing, so let me answer your question..

 

Firstly, I am arguing we go into administration NOW, so the points are deducted NOW. This season is already a busted flush anyway, we are SO going down. We can start next season with a clean slate.

 

If we started next season revived, the club Lowe-less and Wilde-less, our remaining players remotivated, and the right attitude from top-to-bottom within the club resulting in a united fan-base and were playing decent results-focused football, I think a lot of fans would feel better than they currently do...

[alpine_saint]

I reckon not going into administration is better than going into administration. It's a no-brainer I'm afraid.

 

For you, maybe. I dont agree. Can you accept that ?

[Ponty]

For you, maybe. I dont agree. Can you accept that ?

 

I can accept that you disagree, it's no skin off my nose, but I can't think of a decent argument that supports you mate. No team that has gone into administration in recent times looks in particularly good shape. Leeds are bouncing back by all accounts but at their helm is still the same person who took them there in the first place. If we were to end up relegated, with a points deduction and STILL with Lowe in charge, would that be what we need? No, and it's probably the best outcome we could expect.

 

It's a sad and desperate state of affairs at SFC at the moment, and so much needs to change (and quickly) but administration won't solve a single problem as far as I can tell.

[Daren W]

I dont buy the "administration is suicide" thing, so let me answer your question..

 

Firstly, I am arguing we go into administration NOW, so the points are deducted NOW. This season is already a busted flush anyway, we are SO going down. We can start next season with a clean slate.

 

If we started next season revived, the club Lowe-less and Wilde-less, our remaining players remotivated, and the right attitude from top-to-bottom within the club resulting in a united fan-base and were playing decent results-focused football, I think a lot of fans would feel better than they currently do...

 

But...

 

1)There's no guarantee that Lowe and Wilde will be gone...

 

2) If we're crap right now, how the blue hell can we survive in League with the only decent players we have, gone???

 

3) If we're moaning about football now, what will we be saying when we're fighting a 15 point penalty?

 

Administration will send this club to league 2 for certain. One more bad season and we're Conference.

 

And that my friend is a stone cold fact and there's no getting away from it. With the greatest respect, it's naive to think you just waive an administration wand and the bad guys disappear, the crowds return and we start the long road back to glory.

 

We won't. We will be completely and utterly ****ed...

[alpine_saint]

But...

 

1)There's no guarantee that Lowe and Wilde will be gone...

 

2) If we're crap right now, how the blue hell can we survive in League with the only decent players we have, gone???

 

3) If we're moaning about football now, what will we be saying when we're fighting a 15 point penalty?

 

Administration will send this club to league 2 for certain. One more bad season and we're Conference.

 

And that my friend is a stone cold fact and there's no getting away from it. With the greatest respect, it's naive to think you just waive an administration wand and the bad guys disappear, the crowds return and we start the long road back to glory.

 

We won't. We will be completely and utterly ****ed...

 

I understand that if we go into administration before March, the points are taken from THIS season.

 

Even if we dont go into administration this season, I reckon we are down because of the way we play.

 

You dont think it is worth taking the (inveitable, imo) bad medicine now before next season starts ?

 

You are right there is no guarantee that Lowe and Wilde will be gone post-administration. BUT- my feeling is that there is a greater possibility of coming out from the shadow of Lowe and Wilde by this route than by preserving the status quo.

 

Do you not also concede that the club and fan base being Lowe- and Wilde-free is more likely to have a positive and united atmosphere surrounding it ????

[Greenridge]

.... If we were to end up relegated, with a points deduction and STILL with Lowe in charge, would that be what we need? No, and it's probably the best outcome we could expect....

 

 

It would be difficult to think of a worse case scenario than that

[Fowllyd]

So why is the VT site re-development taking so long to start ?

 

They're working on it now - site preparation, or enabling works as they term it. My living room windows look out over it, and I can tell you there's lots being done. Actual building work won't be starting till summer next year, but that's down to the length of time the enabling work will take.

[teamsaint]

just a question;

if we go into administration, do the players contracts have to be honoured?

 

Presumably they do, otherwise they would become free agents.

 

My (limited) understanding was that the administrators are only bound to honour debts accrued after a business goes into admin.

[Amesbury Saint]

Administration would be a disaster for the club.

 

They only positive I can see is that Lowe and Wilde's shares become worthless.

 

But after todays display can it really get any worse?

 

Where is Morph or Long Shot with news that the takeoever is coming soon?

[Fowllyd]

I dont buy the "administration is suicide" thing, so let me answer your question..

 

Firstly, I am arguing we go into administration NOW, so the points are deducted NOW. This season is already a busted flush anyway, we are SO going down. We can start next season with a clean slate.

 

If we started next season revived, the club Lowe-less and Wilde-less, our remaining players remotivated, and the right attitude from top-to-bottom within the club resulting in a united fan-base and were playing decent results-focused football, I think a lot of fans would feel better than they currently do...

 

And there, in bold, is the point where your argument falls apart. You're basing your wish for administration on one big 'if'. And you're ignoring, or at the very best glossing over, the other effects of administration. What happens to the stadium? The training ground (or the part of it we own)? Other assets such as Jackson's Farm? The players, for god's sake? If we go into administration, none of these will belong to us any more (unless I understand it wrongly).

 

To top it all, it's by no means impossible that Lowe and his mates (almost certainly not Wilde though) will emerge as the owners of whatever's left. As the old saying goes, be careful of what you wish for...

[alpine_saint]

And there, in bold, is the point where your argument falls apart. You're basing your wish for administration on one big 'if'. And you're ignoring, or at the very best glossing over, the other effects of administration. What happens to the stadium? The training ground (or the part of it we own)? Other assets such as Jackson's Farm? The players, for god's sake? If we go into administration, none of these will belong to us any more (unless I understand it wrongly).

 

To top it all, it's by no means impossible that Lowe and his mates (almost certainly not Wilde though) will emerge as the owners of whatever's left. As the old saying goes, be careful of what you wish for...

 

Fine. You carry on accepting the status quo, the complete boolllocks being served up, then.