Jan Portvliet OUT.

[Mr X]

Worst manager in our history, possibly the worst manager i have ever seen at any club. Has no clue about modern football and if we go down i will blame him 100%. The man is a disgrace and his post match comments on the way home on the radio make me so angry. He talks about the team isn't playing like it is not his fault, he talks saying they were not motivated like it is not his fault. It is HIS job to get the players motivated and if he cant get them motivated for a home game against the team below us at home with our biggest crowd of the season the game before xmas then he never will. When it gets to the last few games of the season when we need to go to places and get results like last season under Pearson we will not get them under him. We are playing the worst football i have ever seen against teams who are themselves fecking awful. The players looklike they couldnt give a ****. How the man can say what he does when we have won one game at home in 12 games (50% of our home games) is nothing short of a scandal. How the man can stay in his job when he has lost 12 of our 24 games (50%) is ****ing disgraceful. If we keep the man and keep up with the figures for our 24 games this season we will be down. Jan have the dignity to resign, you are not up to this level of football, you simply do not understand english football.

 

JAN OUT

 

People on solent were complaining about his comment that "we only know one way of playing and we will stick with it!" say all u need to know really about his tactical awareness doesn't it?

[alpine_saint]

Right before anyone starts to criticise me I have been a supporter for some 30+ years so unless you have either a valid point to make or a similar record don't bother.

 

I find the situation after today’s match brings a smile to my face.

 

I'll tell you why - saints are fast becoming a team that I don't either recognise nor feel an association with, I hasten to add of course I wouldn't dream of supporting any one else, except that is my sons local kids teams.

 

No, like a number of my friends, some of whom have been season ticket holders for 20+ years, saints are starting to feel like a team that don't really truly deep down care.

 

I have supported then through thick and thin and promotion or demotion won't make a difference, it's the fact that as a business they aren't prepared to invest in the future but instead rely on working on the cheap, but yet expect me and thousands of others like me to invest our hard earned cash in the hope of a days decent entertainment and a flicker of progress.

 

I’ve seen some really attractive pass and move during these past few months but ultimately it's all about winning and in the main we can't - simple!

 

So whilst inside I’m truly gutted that we are as poor as we are, I can't help but cast a wry smile when I see us sink that little bit further down the table as I hope that at some point Lowe or others will either do the honourable thing and resign or feel forced to actually go for a "proper" manager and allow him to build a team.

 

Added to this sense of masochism is the sense of exploitation in respect of the Man U game, which I won't be attending, and that fact that the club sees " us " the fans as cash cows to be drained when the chance arises.

 

I realise that for some of us who have pride in being from Soton we may take our football club too seriously but I don't apologise for that, as we have to have something to hold onto, but sadly Saints are fast becoming just a "football team" rather than representative of the city and the area.

 

A time will come I’m sure where Saints will be something to be proud of, whether that be in the CC or Div 1 who cares, as long as those 11 who tread the turf want to be representing the club and not looking to merely be drawing a wage or hoping that a 'bigger club' coming looking and that the management take seriously their responsibility of leading an historic and proud club which can proudly be called Southampton FC.

 

So on my behalf and those few that I attend alongside, be warned Saints - unless you are prepared to start investing in a real manager then we will stop investing our money in you and I know which will suffer first!!

 

Good post.

[Saint Fan CaM]

Surprised you've lasted this long.

 

I'm the same age as you and yet I saw this coming at the end of last season when Wilde jumped to back Rupert.

 

I have a warchest for the new men - (anyone but Lowe) - but even now with the credit crunch I may just hold on to it in case we fail to oust the idiots curently running our club.

 

Yes, well I guess I saw it coming too, but such is devotion to your club I thought I'd give it one season. I didn't expect miracles - didn't expect anything more than a lower league position to be fair - but I certainly did not expect to be presented with the dross we've been witnessing for the better part of the season. I have always championed a need to stability, but Lowe's policy and strategic deployment is so awfully flawed (and has been for so many years).

[SimonRichards]

Every match I been giving Jan one more chance. I thought with the way we have been playing we only need to score goals to be a fantastic entertaining side.

 

However, today has left me fuming. I have hoped and prayed it would of work but it hasn't.

 

Today was the first time ever that I have left 15 minutes early.

 

 

I like most of you have had enough.

 

Wake up Rupert and admit you ballsed up and bringing Dutch football into the Championship does NOT work.

 

Christmas around the corner and i'm feeling low and deprressed at yet another home loss!!

[RedWillie]

final straw for me to. I have a man u ticket but thats it. This bloke has not got a clue. We are down for sure if we stick with this coaching staff. So much for the strike coach! 35 years and this is the worst. Even worse than the Branfoot fiasco. Get these losers out of our club now.

[Massimo Osti]

Yes sorry ,but nice try mr porta but today you really are the weakest link.

 

CheeryO

[brmbrm]

Well I was a stay-away until today: Festive spirit, oh go on then, Jeez.....

 

The team was totally disorganised. Its one thing to have a weak squad, its another to not TRY to get the best out of them by (a) playing to their strengths, even though they might be limited strengths and (b) organising them as a team, not 11 individuals.

 

But the thing that really ****ed me off was JP during the game. When he was in his little area by the side of the pitch he stood there in his ****-brown suit, hands in pockets, shoulders slumped. Zero instructions. Zero encouragement. Frequent expressions of frustration. ABSOLUTE ZERO MOTIVATION. HE HAD GIVEN UP THE ****.

 

Constrast that with Calderwood and the way he behaved.

 

Can anyone say that a player looking to the bench would feel more motivated and with a sense of purpose and organisation?????????

 

JP out now - he is out of his depth and drowing, so JP, crawl onto land and quit this sinking ship.

 

Lowe too please.

[ALWAYS_SFC]

there, the official thread

 

 

useless, inept, no idea

 

 

I hope he does the decent thing and resigns....

 

Spot on...

[Dalek2003]

I was no great fan of Branfoot, but he did what was necessary to keep us up. He had paln, an ugly one, and had the guts to stick with it.

Jan P....he has no plan and has lost direction. It is clear that he has lost the dressing room.

[saint_ed]

He will leave and Lowe will appoint Wotte, which he wanted to do years ago. It will also save on money. Oh joy.....when will he learn, cheap appointments DO NOT WORK!!! The manager is by far the most important person in any football club.

[devon saint]

Jans had his chance now is the time to get rid

[Toomer]

I was no great fan of Branfoot, but he did what was necessary to keep us up. He had paln, an ugly one, and had the guts to stick with it.

Jan P....he has no plan and has lost direction. It is clear that he has lost the dressing room.

 

Branfoot took us to Wembley this ***t will only take us to the far flung out posts of football.

[Leslie Charteris]

Hey, go easy on the guy. He's only doing what he's told!

[Right sider]

2 wins from the last 15 games is hardly inspiring. He seems to chop and change his side about, it is as if he does not have a big picture. I feel we only have got this far without having a moan because none of us knew him and that anonimity has kept the wolves from his door! Time for a change and get a proper manager in who could give us a vision and build something rather than a coach who seems to react to the circumstances put in front of him.

[derry]

The club winds up, we sell SMS, we start a new club called AFC Saints in the AFC Wimbledon mold, club owned by the supporters a la Ebbsfleet. We ground share with the Skates (so we can shi t on their seats) and start from the bottom.

 

 

That's how I feel at the moment anyway.

 

 

Well, just buy a ticket and crap on the seat.

[Joneth]

We were awful today, i really dont see how we could be any worse off with anyone else in charge. I really wanted Jan to be the the man to sort it out but we need someone in the pearson vein. We have to come to terms with the fact that the championship is a ****kickers league and to get anywhere we have to kick the **** out of as many teams as possible. Total football does not apply when playing the likes of forest.

[Badger]

I think this has to be one defeat too far,and Jan will go ..by "mutual consent",no doubt as we all know that Rupert does not sack managers.Nor does the beetroot cheeked bastard make -or admit to - mistakes in their appointment.

[The Fat Controller]

I think Curbishley will come in as manager and JP will be put into a youth management directors role, as that is what he has a proven track record in doing. Therefore not being sacked and avoiding paying out compensation

[Snowballs2]

What a huge fiasco,,there 26,000 supporters, a golden opportunity to win them back as regulars to boost finances...and ...another totally inept display lacking commitment , passion and product.

This will set the finances and attendances back months.

[Snowballs2]

Lowe MUST be stopped from any more experiments like taking on inexperienced managers, total football etc. It is now the time for Wiulde to do the decent thing and align with Crouch to get rid of Lowe or we are doomed

[NickG]

What a huge fiasco,,there 26,000 supporters, a golden opportunity to win them back as regulars to boost finances...and ...another totally inept display lacking commitment , passion and product.

This will set the finances and attendances back months.

 

that's one of the worst things - I am used to that but others could have been won over

[Windmill Arm 2]

Merrington is a good shout if we must go for cheap options. He is known for getting the best out of youngsters. Cant do any worse than this dutch muppett!

[InvictaSaint]

I posted this on a separate thread a minute ago, but feel it is equally salient here:

 

A reasoned post, to be sure, but one which has flawed arguments and assertions every where you look. As ESB has already pointed out, if only this were one very poor performance!! This is the latest in a long line of poor performances, which has led to us winning ONE game at home all season and scoring EIGHT goals! Is there a team anywhere in the league with a worse record?? This has been partly generated by inexperienced players who are still finding their feet but also presided over by a man who is patently and clearly out of his depth. I manage people every day and if my body language were the same as JP's was yesterday I would be out of a job! He has not been able to learn from his mistakes, continues to spout drivel in his interviews and does not appear to notice the predicament we are in.

 

Nobody, least of all me, is trying to claim that we are anything but skint. However, being skint and having JP 'manage' us are not mutually dependent statements. There are plenty of teams with similar and worse squads than us who are doing far better because - guess what - the bloke on the touchline ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT HE IS DOING!

 

Anybody with SFC in their blood will now admit that this insane experiment has to STOP NOW. There is no total football - that myth died months ago - and all that remains is a bunch of kids being led by a nice Dutch bloke who really doesn't have a clue. And please, don't hang the Reading result in front of my nose as proof of our progress; put a bunch of monkeys in a room with a typewriter and sooner or later one of them will come up with a piece of Shakespearian genius.

[slickmick]

Final Straw for me today. Was confident he could turn things around but to persist with this formation at home when we have only won once shows a total lack of ideas.

English manager please.

[slickmick]

Merrington is a good shout if we must go for cheap options. He is known for getting the best out of youngsters. Cant do any worse than this dutch muppett!

 

was saying same thing on the way home.

[um pahars]

Nobody, least of all me, is trying to claim that we are anything but skint. However, being skint and having JP 'manage' us are not mutually dependent statements. There are plenty of teams with similar and worse squads than us who are doing far better because - guess

 

Spot on.

 

Just because we're skint, then it doesn't automatically follow that we have to employ someone who is clearly our of their depth.

[Legod Third Coming]

Final Straw for me today. Was confident he could turn things around but to persist with this formation at home when we have only won once shows a total lack of ideas.

English manager please.

 

He changed the formation three/four times during the game.

 

The problem is do the players know what they are doing?

 

Which comes down to:

 

1) ineffective explanation

 

2) inefective motivation

 

3) ineffective coaching

 

4) players who are not very good.

 

The reality is a mix of all the above.

 

WE cannot expect to appoint a new coach and to see this team string a series of wins together. Many of the players are simply not ready. Some are simply not good enough - none are good enough to form the nucleus of a team.

 

For both coach and team we are paying peanuts. We are reaping the result of that.

 

To remove Poortvliet serves no purpose. The system will NOT change. The reliance on youth will NOT change. You will simply have Wotte, the new bloke or Hockaday in charge.

 

This is Rupert's vision.

 

He does not appreciate these kids are mentally and physically tired. They are not up to it yet.

[sadoldgit]

Pearson was better than Burley.

 

But Rupey knows best.

 

Oh...

 

I suppose you think that if you repeat it often enough it will become so eh Alpine?

 

The facts would speak otherwise though and three wins in 13 games nearly took us down.

 

Burley was the last decent manager we had and if he was still here I think we would still be in the top half of the table.

 

But you have your opinion and I have mine. And that is all they are.

 

However, given that you stated that you wanted to punch Burley I am surprised that you are giving JP such an easy time.

 

Odd isn't it. One man had the best record here since the war and his is crap and you want to punch him, another has one of the worst records but he is a decent bloke and you would probably let him marry your daughter.

[Glasgow_Saint]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11688_4673423,00.html

[qwertySFC]

When Jan was appointed, I make no bones in thinking to myself that this idea of attractive football , youngsters given an opportunity to play sounded great. Considering that under GB many fans had seen over paid professionals in the twilight of their years turning out utter dross, I liked NP , although he had little time ,we did have games where the so called experienced guys turned up took their cash and gave not a lot back.

 

I thought the signing of Spiderman , was a good investment , crossed my fingers that Killer was a saviour which slightly helped the release of Andrew Davis who I was sad to see go. The boardroom issue was not a major concern for me , as long as i can go to SMS watch some entertaining stuff , cheer the guys on and go home happy that at least we showed some passion.

 

As of today , I must say that this club has totally lost the plot. Jan is so far out of his depth that it is extremly painful to watch , we have players who upon a regular basis are turning out the same dross as we did under GB and NP. We have a fan base that is so divided now , we slag each other off in our own ground, we have RL who is so blinkered on this "Total Football" continential approach it has gone past being embarrasing it is now a disaster.

 

I , like my many of my friends some our STH , have no answer to this , we are unable to change any thing , all we can do is walk away , turn our back and think oh well ...why bother. Its hard to pay out on a regular basis , thinking this time it's going to work , we all read , as I expect many fans do, the hype , that is part of football , the expactation the build up .

 

We have been let down so many times , a few false glimmers of hope now and again. As a fan , a supporter what ever you call someone who is an average bloke who likes his local club and enjoys football , I can't actually enjoy the SMS experience any more , the dross from Jan game after game ,I just can't understand him as a manger . So for now unless we have a change in manager who can instill the same passion into the players that I have about this club , I will not be contributing to their over the top wages.

[sadoldgit]

He changed the formation three/four times during the game.

 

The problem is do the players know what they are doing?

 

Which comes down to:

 

1) ineffective explanation

 

2) inefective motivation

 

3) ineffective coaching

 

4) players who are not very good.

 

The reality is a mix of all the above.

 

WE cannot expect to appoint a new coach and to see this team string a series of wins together. Many of the players are simply not ready. Some are simply not good enough - none are good enough to form the nucleus of a team.

 

For both coach and team we are paying peanuts. We are reaping the result of that.

 

To remove Poortvliet serves no purpose. The system will NOT change. The reliance on youth will NOT change. You will simply have Wotte, the new bloke or Hockaday in charge.

 

This is Rupert's vision.

 

He does not appreciate these kids are mentally and physically tired. They are not up to it yet.

 

I don't think that you does not see the problems. I think that he feels that, with our limited resources, this is the only way forward. It is hard to see where the money is going to come from to sort out the defensive frailties or lack of punch upfront. I don't think McGoldrick will ever be the player we needed him to be at this level.

 

Without significant investment it is hard to see how anything is going to be turned round in the short term.

[saint lard]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11688_4673423,00.html

"You never walk away from this situation,because once a winner you are always a winner"

 

Oh dear.

[sadoldgit]

I don't think that "Total Football" has anything to do with it. It is about brininging through your home grown talent. Unfortunately players like Bale and Walcott have gone otherwise it might be a different story - but I don't think anything is wrong with the basic philosophy. What you do need to do though is to blood the youngesters carefully and gradually integrate them into the senior team. Because of the financial plight too much has happened too soon.

[Legod Third Coming]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11688_4673423,00.html

 

And this is how it starts...

 

PR people start to question his confidence and ability.

 

The leak a story to SKY with rehashed quotations taken out of context which make him look a fool.

 

Fans turn on the coach, conveniently overlooking that he is a simple symptom of the club's position.

 

Then the chairman acts (Wilde, not Lowe) to say they were bowing to results and fan pressure.

 

And they change coach.

 

And they're off the hook for another six months.

 

And we're no better off, probably worse...

[Legod Third Coming]

I don't think that "Total Football" has anything to do with it. It is about brininging through your home grown talent. Unfortunately players like Bale and Walcott have gone otherwise it might be a different story - but I don't think anything is wrong with the basic philosophy. What you do need to do though is to blood the youngesters carefully and gradually integrate them into the senior team. Because of the financial plight too much has happened too soon.

 

 

Precisely. And some of the players won't ever be good enough because they have the technical skill but not the mental strength.

 

And they way you build mental strength is to introduce players gradually like Wnger has with Theo!! Not as we have done, to cast them into the Lion's den.

 

Rupert does not understand this. He has no grasp of the reality of training young footballers and making them professionals.

 

He sees a winning Academy and thinks this can be transferred to the first team wholesale.

 

While I agree with his philosophy - it is the RIGHT one. We do need to be self-sufficient and we do need more reliance oh hom grown talen. He has gone about this badly.

[Nexstar]

Fact is though that JP will never quit, he has come from the 4th tier of Dutch football to one step away from what is supposedly the best league in the world. He must be getting paid more here than at helmond, more fans, and better skilled players (probably!). Lowe I doubt will sack him after building up the golden dutch duo so much and the 'exciting total football' us fans can expect. The only way I can see him going is if lowe goes and someone like crouch comes back in, the players sack him, or we get relegated.

[Topcat]

The real cause of this is Lowe and we have yet another one of Lowe's experiments unravelling.

 

Yet Lowe will then pick the next coach and continue to hand the limited pick n mix squad for that poor coach to choose from.

 

Barclays need to act and tell the Board that any continued support is dependent upon the removal of Lowe as an Executive Director.

[St Marco]

I suppose you think that if you repeat it often enough it will become so eh Alpine?

 

The facts would speak otherwise though and three wins in 13 games nearly took us down.

 

Burley was the last decent manager we had and if he was still here I think we would still be in the top half of the table.

 

But you have your opinion and I have mine. And that is all they are.

 

However, given that you stated that you wanted to punch Burley I am surprised that you are giving JP such an easy time.

 

Odd isn't it. One man had the best record here since the war and his is crap and you want to punch him, another has one of the worst records but he is a decent bloke and you would probably let him marry your daughter.

 

If you look at the 13 games before Pearson arrived you see we got 7 points from 39 on offer. That is games from under Burley and Dodd and Gorman. If we continued that ratio into the last 13 games of the season we would of been down. Pearson then got 16 points from his 13 games. An increase in points by over 50%. Did that with a major injury crisis, losing 3 of our main players as they were loaned out etc.. etc.. Pearson did not nearly take us down, he kept us in the league and stopped the massive slide we were on. The points ratio shows that. Add to that fact in those 13 games we had to get something from 3 of the playoff teams with 1 of those away to the team who went up. We lost only 3 games under Pearson where as we have lost 12 games already this season.

[Saintsnodisbelieving]

I know it has been said elsewhere, so cant be claimed as an original thought.

But my mother could be a good manager of Southampton, she is great with kids and used to a tight budget.

 

http://saintsnodisbelieving.blogspot.com/

[benjii]

If you look at the 13 games before Pearson arrived you see we got 7 points from 39 on offer. That is games from under Burley and Dodd and Gorman. If we continued that ratio into the last 13 games of the season we would of been down. Pearson then got 16 points from his 13 games. An increase in points by over 50%. Did that with a major injury crisis, losing 3 of our main players as they were loaned out etc.. etc.. Pearson did not nearly take us down, he kept us in the league and stopped the massive slide we were on. The points ratio shows that. Add to that fact in those 13 games we had to get something from 3 of the playoff teams with 1 of those away to the team who went up. We lost only 3 games under Pearson where as we have lost 12 games already this season.

 

Well said.

[um pahars]

If you look at the 13 games before Pearson arrived you see we got 7 points from 39 on offer. That is games from under Burley and Dodd and Gorman. If we continued that ratio into the last 13 games of the season we would of been down. Pearson then got 16 points from his 13 games. An increase in points by over 50%.

 

Being the pedant I am, Pearson actually improved the points haul by 130%!!!!!!

 

His haul of 16 points in 13 games wasn't an outstanding achievement, but when put in perspective of what he inherited and what direction we were heading, it was a very good return.

[aintforever]

It has to be time to sack Poortvleit, particularly if we have to sell Surman and Lallana - he team will have it's guts ripped out anyway so might as well give a proper manager a chance to build something.

 

I think it's all too late anyway, far from improving with experience -the kids are looking more tired with every game. The second half of the season will be way harder for this team, everyt eam we play will know how to play against us.

[um pahars]

When did we have a choice but to play whats left?

 

What was left????? I think you'll find we added quite a bit to what was left!!!!

 

Since Lowe came in we have brought in:

 

A New Head Coach

A New Assistant

A Ne whatever Wotte does

 

PLUS

 

Twelve new players

 

That's a lot of choices!!!!!

[SaintRichmond]

there, the official thread

 

 

useless, inept, no idea

 

 

I hope he does the decent thing and resigns....

 

 

 

Ask yourself this .... with the players left to him after Lowe's insistance that YOUNG PLAYERS were the only way forward ............

...... what Manager would have done any better

 

Come 1st February, when the Squad is pruned further, Poortvliet will have even less chance to put out a "Team " worthy of the name

 

The blame should not be directed at Poortvliet, but at the Bigoted Know All Rupert Lowe

 

RIP Saints

BRING ON ADMINISTRATION, it now IS the only way that Sainst can rid themselves of the VERMIN that purport to run the Club

 

It will NOT be any worse, as we are already heading for Div 1

[Um Bongo]

One trick Pony. Except a pony probably has better tactical awareness.

 

Get out.

[Snowballs2]

I know it's pointless to ask for the millionth time, and then someone else will just make the same stupid comment, but what EXPERIMENT?

 

When did we have a choice but to play whats left? If Lowe was sat there with the option of keeping the highly paid players, or playing young players and he chose the latter then he's an idiot. But if it's a choice between bankruptcy and playing a crap young team then what choice is there? What the hell would you do? Remove Lowe from the equation and think about it logically for just a second. We're a poor club. A small club. We have debts, no funds to spend and a fairly poor squad. Yet apparently we should be doing what? Spending big, employing expensive managers?

 

 

I know it's hard, it seems for many impossible, to accept, but we're just a poor team doing poorly. There's no conspiracy, no underachievement, no sabotage by Lowe, no experiment gone wrong, no choice in the matter, we're just not very good.

 

 

Garbage and trite comments.... , you know that things did not need to be like this. If we had kept a couple of playes we loaned out and Pearson too it would have been better. Oh and if that idiot Wilde had not helped the return of Lowe too

[beatlesaint]

Rupert Lowe will never admit he has made a mistake with JP

Rupert Lowe's mates in the boardroom and amongst the shareholders will stick by him come what may so he can experiment with his Dutch Duo until he has achieved the unthinkable....and that will be SFC in the third tier of English football for the first time in nearly 50 years.

 

Thanks Rupert....you're a brick....or something that rhymes with brick anyway.

[Wade Garrett]

You can't polish a turd.

 

The team is not good enough no matter what tactics are used.

 

You can only point the finger at one person for that, and he ain't a dutchman.

[docker-p]

I have no crystal ball, but i think had we stuck with Nigel Pearson we would be in the top half of the league and there would be 5,000 more fans turning up. Just a guess of course.

 

What is a fact is Lowes cost cutting has resulted in 5,000 fewer punters which has left him where he started with regard to the balance sheet, and no more costs available to trim. And no hope of promotion.

[Master Bates]

*EDIT

 

Probably can't ask that.

Edited 21 December, 2008 by Master Bates