Derby fans

[Ohio Saint]

Every mile back from the Derby playoff game, in the torrential rain, I was hoping for their classless northern monkey fans would be on the end of a result like this. I don't give a sh !t that it was a team managed by Harry Rednapp that gave it to them. Anyone on this thread that feels sorry for those Derby pr!cks wasn't there that day.

 

I will have forgotten about all of this anyway by tomorrow afternoon......Not because I don't care, more to do with getting older and having a shockingly bad attention span.

[Ohio Saint]

What was this thread about?

[cellone]

What was this thread about?

 

You and Kracken

[Guided Missile]

What was this thread about?

Northern Monkeys

[Ohio Saint]

You and Kracken

 

Oh oh!! He is gonna get really peed off about your spelling of his user name.

[The Kraken]

Oh oh!! He is gonna get really peed off about your spelling of his user name.

I find it quite quite bemusing, really. In a "how can you really get that wrong?" type fashion! Ho hum.

 

Guided Missile brings up a good point. I don't think I've ever been more soaked to the skin than after that Derby playoff game. Ridiculous scenes, especially with their fans not wanting to celebrate promotion but instead looking to battering innocent Saints fans outside. Utterly bizarre from them, there wasn't even any real needle during the game between the sets of fans.

[cellone]

Alright. You and Kevin.

[The Kraken]

Alright. You and Kevin.

Apology accepted, Dell One.

[shurlock]

Apology accepted, Dell One.

 

All water under the bridge snitch.

[The Kraken]

All water under the bridge snitch.

You might want to get your facts right, if you're going to make insinuations. I commented back to you on your ridiculous terminology, nothing more. That you're childish enough to get upset about being called up on it probably says more about you than it does me.

[shurlock]

You might want to get your facts right, if you're going to make insinuations. I commented back to you on your ridiculous terminology, nothing more. That you're childish enough to get upset about being called up on it probably says more about you than it does me.

 

No pal it doesn't. For someone who has clearly stated in the past that even genuinely hateful abuse might not offend or concern them as they themselves aren't Jewish, it's odd that they should then flag up and get flustered by a nickname that is commonly used without any malice and on a completely different scale. Nice hypocritical, cheap shot.

[The Kraken]

No pal it doesn't. For someone who has clearly stated in the past that even genuinely hateful abuse might not offend or concern them as they themselves aren't Jewish, it's odd that they should then flag up a nickname that is commonly used and on a completely different register. Nice cheap shot sunshine.

It doesn't offend me. But I'm grown up enough to know that racist language, like you employed, might offend someone. Hence I asked you the question "Really" and did nothing more. If anyone else was offended, are you really surprised?

 

Like I said; if you're going to get upset that someone questions you using racist language on a public forum, I think it says something more about you than it does me.

 

I'm sure you want the last word, so you carry on and leave it, I won't bother responding any further on the subject to someone who enjoys uses racist language and then gets all huffy when questioned about it.

[shurlock]

It doesn't offend me. But I'm grown up enough to know that racist language, like you employed, might offend someone. Hence I asked you the question "Really" and did nothing more. If anyone else was offended, are you really surprised?

 

Like I said; if you're going to get upset that someone questions you using racist language on a public forum, I think it says something more about you than it does me.

 

I'm sure you want the last word, so you carry on and leave it, I won't bother responding to someone who uses racist language and then gets all huffy when questioned about it.

 

Genuine racial abuse doesn't offend you yet you flag up an innocuous if mildly idiotic nickname rather than let people themselves decide what's permissible or not. No?

 

Don't wrap up petty point scoring in the garb of a just cause that you yourself have admitted you couldn't give a s**t about. You come across as a disingenuous weasel.

[The Kraken]

Genuine racial abuse doesn't offend you yet you flag up an innocuous if mildly idiotic nickname rather than let people themselves decide what's permissible or not. No?

 

Don't wrap up petty point scoring in the garb of a just cause that you yourself have admitted you couldn't give a s**t about. You come across as a disingenuous weasel.

I said I wouldn't respond, but I'll clarify.

 

How can I get offended by racial abuse if it's not aimed at my race? Although you tried to say i wasn't concerned by such; that's clearly not the case. I assume you're referring to this thread to get my opinion?

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49572-Saints-fan-arrested-and-charged-for-shouting-anti-Semitic-abuse/page2&highlight=jewish+kraken#.U4DsNvldWSo

 

Funny how you actually agreed with my position in that one (which is exactly the same as my position has been here). Strange, very strange. Posts 96 and 97, by the way.

 

I know you love to twist other's opinions into something else you can argue against, but you agreed with my exact line of thinking then, yet because you're the idiot that used racist language this time you've reversed your opinion. It's not about point scoring at all. Perhaps I should be offended by other ethnicities getting racist abuse? One thing is for sure, and even you will recognise without admitting it, is that I have never said I'm not concerned by it, or recognise that it is a real issue for others.

[shurlock]

I said I wouldn't respond, but I'll clarify.

 

How can I get offended by racial abuse if it's not aimed at my race? Although you tried to say i wasn't concerned by such; that's clearly not the case. I assume you're referring to this thread to get my opinion?

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?49572-Saints-fan-arrested-and-charged-for-shouting-anti-Semitic-abuse/page2&highlight=jewish+kraken#.U4DsNvldWSo

 

Funny how you actually agreed with my position in that one (which is exactly the same as my position has been here). Strange, very strange. Posts 96 and 97, by the way.

 

I know you love to twist other's opinions into something else you can argue against, but you agreed with my exact line of thinking then, yet because you're the idiot that used racist language this time you've reversed your opinion. It's not about point scoring at all. Perhaps I should be offended by other ethnicities getting racist abuse? One thing is for sure, and even you will recognise without admitting it, is that I have never said I'm not concerned by it, or recognise that it is a real issue for others.

 

And that's where I fundamentally disagreed with you - you can and should get offended by any abuse as a point of principle. I simply agreed that genuinely hateful comments might cause offense - the tone of the thread was suggesting that maliciously motivated comments about the holocaust or whatever were fair game at the football.

 

But well done for conflating that with a nickname whose meaning is well-understood in a football context along with a post that had no malicious intent at all. The discrepancy just underlines your cynical hatchet job.

[Dr Who?]

Gutted for Derby.

[The Kraken]

And that's where I fundamentally disagreed with you - you can and should get offended by any abuse as a point of principle. I simply agreed that genuinely hateful comments might cause offense - the tone of the thread was suggesting that maliciously motivated comments about the holocaust or whatever were fair game at the football.

 

But well done for conflating that with a nickname whose meaning is well-understood in a football context along with a post that had no malicious intent at all. The discrepancy just underlines your cynical hatchet job.

What hatchet job? You're the one that raised it again. You insinuated I was a "snitch" (which I wasn't, not that it matters) and then have digressed into an "I was only joking and everyone says it anyway so it can't be racist" ridiculous tangent.

 

You didn't disagree with me at all. You AGREED with me. You also clarified that anyone of any race or colour should find racist language wrong. That's entirely a given. Should I need to point that out?? Do you actually believe I don't think that, despite taking Sour Mash to task in that thread over his statements (which I still believe were crass).

 

You used a racist term on here. I called you up on it. You've used deflection tactics to shift the blame, and not done it well. Why not just say, "fair play lads, stupid comment from me". I'm pretty sure your position is clear, you're absolutely not a racist, you just used a stupid phrase. But instead of manning-up, you've chased after me instead, called me a grass and insinuated all sorts.

 

Anyway, carry on. This is a ridiculous conversation for a Saturday evening!!

Edited 24 May, 2014 by The Kraken

[shurlock]

What hatchet job? You're the one that raised it again. You insinuated I was a "snitch" (which I wasn't, not that it matters) and then have digressed into an "I was only joking and everyone says it anyway so it can't be racist" ridiculous tangent.

 

You didn't disagree with me at all. You AGREED with me. You also clarified that anyone of any race or colour should find racist language wrong. That's entirely a given. Should I need to point that out?? Do you actually believe I don't think that, despite taking Sour Mash to task in that thread over his statements (which I still believe were crass).

 

You used a racist term on here. I called you up on it. You've used deflection tactics to shift the blame, and not done it well. Why not just say, "fair play lads, stupid comment from me". I'm pretty sure your position is clear, you're absolutely not a racist, you just used a stupid phrase. But instead of manning-up, you've chased after me instead, called me a grass and insinuated all sorts.

 

Anyway, carry on. This is a ridiculous conversation for a Saturday evening!!

 

Keep banging away on the racism drum. Of course, it would help if you knew what the term meant to begin with.

 

Yep it's Saturday evening, got to call time on your unconvincing contortions. It's past sunset and need to shoot off and meet some yid mates.

[The Kraken]

Keep banging away on the racism drum. Of course, it would help if you knew what the term meant to begin with.

 

Yep it's Saturday evening, got to call time on your unconvincing contortions. It's past sunset and need to shoot off and meet some yid mates.

You really do love a row, don't you? I said you weren't racist, but used a daft term. You're still too childish to actually admit that, and it's everyone else's fault, and nobody else but shurlock understands racism. Deary me.

[suewhistle]

Can you boys take your argument to PM please? Nobody else is interested in playground name calling.

 

Thanks.

[The Kraken]

Can you boys take your argument to PM please? Nobody else is interested in playground name calling.

 

Thanks.

F*ck off Sue.

 

Thanks luv x

[Turkish]

F*ck off Sue.

 

Thanks luv x

 

You can why I've got her on ignore can't you.

[The Majestic Channon]

she's right though, it's just dull and a bit tragic tbh

[The Kraken]

she's right though, it's just dull and a bit tragic tbh

That part is definitely true.

[Dark Munster]

It's also irrelevant to whether you support or disagree with the principle of the playoffs for the third promoted side.

 

As I said earlier; it doesn't necessarily reward the team who have performed the best over the season. But I think it's a good system, everyone knows the rules beforehand, and it keeps most of the top half of the table competitive usually right into the last games of the season.

 

If you disagree with the concept then, of course it doesn't need saying, that's fine. But claiming something is grossly unfair when it clearly is anything but, I won't go along with that.

 

Out of interest; do you find American sports to be "unfair" when it comes to determining the winner? As i say, I don't think it compares well to the competition for the third promoted side, but interested to hear the views from someone who lives that side of the pond. I admit, I wouldn't like it for the English leagues to choose a winner by playoff. But for promotion, I just think it works. And if everyone knows the rules beforehand it can hardly be described as unfair IMO.

You can't compare American playoffs with promotion to the PL. If an American team screws up not making the playoffs they shrug their shoulders and try again the next year. Here not getting promoted (or getting relegated) means the difference between 50 or more million (and that's just in the short term). Life or death basically.

 

Having said that, I can't see the Championship playoffs being scrapped. So I would suggest a fairer system: 5th plays a one-off against 6th (at home). The winner plays another one-off away to 4th. The winner of that meets 3rd at Wembley. That way 3-6 make the playoffs, but each higher position gets a significant advantage.

[The Kraken]

You can't compare American playoffs with promotion to the PL. If an American team screws up not making the playoffs they shrug their shoulders and try again the next year. Here not getting promoted (or getting relegated) means the difference between 50 or more million (and that's just in the short term). Life or death basically.

 

Having said that, I can't see the Championship playoffs being scrapped. So I would suggest a fairer system: 5th plays a one-off against 6th (at home). The winner plays another one-off away to 4th. The winner of that meets 3rd at Wembley. That way 3-6 make the playoffs, but each higher position gets a significant advantage.

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing, but I wasn't doing that, Ohio was. I asked him if he thought that system was "fair", given that he thought the playoffs aren't. I think Championship playoffs for promotion for the third side, and PL playoffs for the title winners, are entirely different and incomparable.

 

I've heard your playoff proposal before, and it kind of makes a little sense. I just think the current way works well; that's just an opinion. I quite like it all, and being as everyone knows the rules beforehand it's a fair system.

[pangy]

Jeez,do I hate Redknapp, seeing his twitchy bollock face smiling after the game today made me die a little bit inside. I'm not sure this is a world I want to bring my children up in after seeing that tbh

[The Kraken]

Jeez,do I hate Redknapp, seeing his twitchy bollock face smiling after the game today made me die a little bit inside. I'm not sure this is a world I want to bring my children up in after seeing that tbh

 

 

I have to say I agree! Well put.

[pangy]

 

I have to say I agree! Well put.

 

Plus SSN will be unbearable this summer knowing the twitch will be on the hunt for new players

 

[Rebel]

Bad day for football - QPR getting promoted and Real Madrid winning the Champions League. Both clubs proving financial fair play is a joke!

 

I have no love for Derby after the play-off at Pride Park and the way their fans behaved - but I think I detest 'Arry Redknapp more.

 

And don't give me the Bale stuff - he left us for Spurs, for the money and too early - and we got nowhere near enough money for him - plus he's Welsh

[GAS]

People still whining about another teams celebrating a win against us seven freaking years ago is seriously effing mental. I take it you people don't celebrate Saints victories just in case they upset the other fans?

 

Get over it.

 

Gutted for Derby, would have absolutely loved to see them come up. Plus we've been robbed of a QPR meltdown which would have been fun to watch.

But surely these kind of memories are what makes football. I still remember losing to Everton in the FA cup semi final - Adrian Heath - dodgy goal - pitch invasion - out burst of anger - - aahh you've started me off now, I like Martinez but boy do I hate Everton......

[Dark Munster]

Not sure if you're agreeing with me or disagreeing, but I wasn't doing that, Ohio was. I asked him if he thought that system was "fair", given that he thought the playoffs aren't. I think Championship playoffs for promotion for the third side, and PL playoffs for the title winners, are entirely different and incomparable.

 

I've heard your playoff proposal before, and it kind of makes a little sense. I just think the current way works well; that's just an opinion. I quite like it all, and being as everyone knows the rules beforehand it's a fair system.

20 years ago may have been fair, but with the vast amount of money involved now it would be rather unfair (in my opinion) if a team finishing sixth, 20 points behind third for example, scrapes through the playoffs. Knowing something in advance doesn't necessarily make it fair. If we can't scrap the playoffs at least give the third placed team a big advantage. Playing the second leg of a semi-final at home isn't a big enough reward IMHO.

[The Kraken]

20 years ago may have been fair, but with the vast amount of money involved now it would be rather unfair (in my opinion) if a team finishing sixth, 20 points behind third for example, scrapes through the playoffs. Knowing something in advance doesn't necessarily make it fair. If we can't scrap the playoffs at least give the third placed team a big advantage. Playing the second leg of a semi-final at home isn't a big enough reward IMHO.

OK, serious question. If the teams in the Championship (or League 1 and League 2) don't think the system is fair, why haven't they done anything about it?

[Lord Duckhunter]

The nearest comparison would be the top 3 into the champions league and then the last place decided with a play off between 4,5,6,7.

[Dark Munster]

OK, serious question. If the teams in the Championship (or League 1 and League 2) don't think the system is fair, why haven't they done anything about it?

Because they're not Man Utd, and they know they'll be pissing in the wind?

[sebastian firefly]

People still whining about another teams celebrating a win against us seven freaking years ago is seriously effing mental. I take it you people don't celebrate Saints victories just in case they upset the other fans?

 

Get over it.

 

Gutted for Derby, would have absolutely loved to see them come up. Plus we've been robbed of a QPR meltdown which would have been fun to watch.

 

 

seven years is nothing, I still lay awake at night muttering Adrian heath Adrian heath Adrian heath Adrian Ba2tard heath over and over and over

[Saints foreva]

Jelly and ice cream when Redknapp dies.

[adysaint]

I was there yesterday. Brother is a QPR Fan. When it was Derby I said "I want to go" I felt like it was the Final I should have had in 2007.

And then they got 11 points. And we had Bale, Surman a still decent Kenwyne Jones. Hate them, hate them, hate them... How quickly their end emptied...

It was awesome.

 

My most mental celebrations:

1 Raziak @ Derby

2 Camara v Norwich

3 Zamora v Derby yesterday

 

Like obviously I'm not a QPR fan but it was that good, I hugged so many random dudes that I think I might be pregnant...

[Jack]

Pathetic.

[the colonel]

Plus SSN will be unbearable this summer knowing the twitch will be on the hunt for new players

 

 

It's not just this summer. The love in with him will be constantly all over Sky & other media all next season. It was great not having his face on our screens every two seconds last season.

[The Cat]

Despite the fact we lost, the Derby play off game was one of my favourite ever matches. Absolute bedlam in our end when Rasiak scored the 3rd. I guarantee there would have been some of our fans on the pitch goading theirs if it had been the other way around.

[September Saint]

The reason the playoffs exist is to give Sky 15 extra league games.

This is a money driven business whether we like it or not!

[KK the 2nd]

Get over it. I recall the rain more than the Derby fans (just ignored them in 2007 ... couldn't ignore the downpour!). On the bright side always enjoyed away days at QPR ... easy trip, good away atmosphere and some good results.

[supersonic]

People still crying over both incidents really need to move on. We're in a far better position than we were when both events happened

[Batman]

The reason the playoffs exist is to give Sky 15 extra league games.

This is a money driven business whether we like it or not!

 

Didn't the playoffs exist before 1992?

 

It adds great excitement I think.

As said, no one minded in 2007 when we snuck into 6th late on

 

Also, our first season in league 1, bet no one minded the playoffs as we hunted down 6th spot. But came up just short

[aintforever]

I agree with the opening post, was a shame Redknapp got promoted but I really cant stand Derby.

[CB Fry]

Didn't the playoffs exist before 1992?

 

It adds great excitement I think.

As said, no one minded in 2007 when we snuck into 6th late on

 

Also, our first season in league 1, bet no one minded the playoffs as we hunted down 6th spot. But came up just short

 

Started in 1987. But blame Sky anyway or something.

[Fan The Flames]

It's amazing that the playoffs have been going on for so long, most football fans have experienced the play offs for more time than they haven't. They were devised to keep alive the season for more teams and they work.

[Dark Munster]

The reason the playoffs exist is to give Sky 15 extra league games.

This is a money driven business whether we like it or not!

True, but my stepladder idea for the championship playoffs only loses two matches, gives third place a big advantage they deserve, while still making fourth-sixth places worth pursuing for many teams. For L1 and L2 the stakes are much lower, so their playoff formats could be kept as is.

 

Edit: If Sky doesn't want to lose the 2 matches they could make the stepladder matches home and away. But that would mean 4 matches for the 5th or 6th placed team.

Edited 25 May, 2014 by Dark Munster

[BadgerBadger]

An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind.