Jump to content

Saints viewed as open for business


The Commodore

Recommended Posts

Full page article in today's Times by Rory Smith, one of their younger journo's about the new atmosphere after Cortese. In essence the article says that other premier league clubs are no longer scared of dealing with us which is why there are already bids for Adam and Luke etc. Lots of praise for the "southampton way" and our concept of self-policing of players who get lout of line, but a worrying article all the same. Not that it says anything new, but just confirms our worse thoughts!! Sorry can't give link as on the london train and signal crap.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who don't buy it:

 

Response of south coast club to transfer bids will speak volumes about their ambition, writes Rory Smith

 

It is a story that sums up Nicola Cortese’s approach to transfer dealings. A couple of years ago, in his pomp as Southampton executive chairman, the Italian-born Swiss called one of the club’s bright young things into his office. An offer had arrived for his services from one of the Barclays Premier League’s big beasts. It was a generous one, but not sufficiently so to tempt Cortese to do business.

 

When the teenager appeared, Cortese showed him the piece of paper on which the offer was written. He did not ask him for an opinion, or give him the chance to state if he would like the club to enter into negotiations. He simply tore it up in front of him. “That,” he told him, “is what I think of that.”

 

Cortese, who left his post at the turn of the year, is the sort of character who divides opinion. Many feel that he was the ultimate architect of Southampton’s remarkable rise from the depths of the third tier to the top half of the Barclays Premier League. Others, particularly at St Mary’s, feel that life is entirely more palatable without him around.

 

What is not in question, though, is that Cortese was a fearsome opponent when it came to transfers. Few of his fellow executives in the Premier League relished the prospect of dealing with him.

It would be fascinating to know how different this week might have been had Cortese still been in charge on the south coast. The season had been over for just a few minutes when a delegation from Manchester United — by chance Southampton’s guests on the final day of the campaign — submitted, in person, a £27 million offer for Luke Shaw, only hours before he was confirmed as a member of Roy Hodgson’s World Cup squad.

 

Less than a day later, Liverpool came calling, this time for Adam Lallana, the club captain and the long-term standard-bearer for what they call “the Southampton way”. That offer of £17 million, or thereabouts, arrived remotely. Both are under consideration. Nothing has been torn up; not yet.

 

Doubtless that will serve to encourage Tottenham Hotspur, too, when they make their long-anticipated move to extricate Mauricio Pochettino, the manager, from Southampton. Ralph Krueger, Cortese’s successor, and Katharina Liebherr, the club’s owner, have done what they can to persuade the Argentinian to stay, and a new contract offer is on the table, but the most effective defence against Spurs’s predations may be one put in place by Cortese, who had a clause written into Pochettino’s deal that means the manager will have to pay, personally, £2 million if he leaves for another club.

 

The presence of Cortese, of course, would not have stopped these offers coming in; he would not have acted as an impenetrable bulwark against the circling vultures. It is hard to escape the impression, though, that those teams who have long coveted Southampton’s most precious assets feel altogether more comfortable making their intentions known than they might have done six or seven months ago.

That is regrettable, of course. The work Southampton have done over the past five years is, perhaps, the most remarkable story in English football. They are an advert for how things should be done, investing in their youth infrastructure, bringing through their own players, building sustainably.

 

Pochettino has instilled an attractive, expansive, modern ethos into the way they play. There is a restrained culture among the players that Calum Chambers, another off the production line, describes as “self-policing”.

As soon as anyone looks as if the praise is going to their heads, the rest of the squad is quick to drag them back down to earth.

 

They are reaping the rewards for all of that: an eighth-placed finish in the Barclays Premier League. Rickie Lambert, like Lallana and Shaw, is in the England squad and Jay Rodriguez might well have been, had he not been sidelined by injury. Morgan Schneiderlin is on the standby list for France.

 

All of that comes at a price. Glittering jewels attract the magpies. Not many can resist them. Krueger, upon his appointment, described how the club — forever looking to seek the extra revenues that might make them more competitive still — were considering franchising out their youth development expertise. They would give other clubs, other teams in other sports, the benefit of their wisdom at growing their own talent. It was, he said, an intelligent way of monetising their greatest asset. Indeed it is. It is just that football has long had a more straightforward way of achieving the same end: clubs who produce their talent eventually sell it to those who buy it in.

 

Southampton do not have to sell. But Liebherr, while she remains, as far as anyone can tell, committed to the club, has made it clear that they must pay their own way. If that is the case, there comes a point when they have to succumb. Not far off £50 million for two players who cost nothing is simply good business.

 

The coming days and weeks, though, will be instructive. If the aim is simply for consolidation in the Premier League, £50 million for two players — at the height of their value — is too good to turn down. If the plan is as it was, to crack the glass ceiling separating the top six from the rest, they must channel their inner Cortese. They must resist. Which path they choose will say much about where Southampton’s journey will take them next.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether or not clubs feel comfortable about making bids for are players is neither here nor there. Any inference that clubs were deterred by Cortese from making bids for our players is laughable. Whether the players would have felt less comfortable in wanting to leave ( if indeed they do) is a more interesting question. Would Cortese have sold? Probably yes, at best price. £17m for Lallalna. They can stick it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just another load of empty speculation. Doesn't tell us anything insightful.

 

This.

 

Nothing more than a comparison of what might be happening now versus what might be happening if something slightly different was happening.

 

I have no doubt selected forum dins will describe it as "a good read".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those who don't buy it:

 

Response of south coast club to transfer bids will speak volumes about their ambition, writes Rory Smith

 

It is a story that sums up Nicola Cortese’s approach to transfer dealings. A couple of years ago, in his pomp as Southampton executive chairman, the Italian-born Swiss called one of the club’s bright young things into his office. An offer had arrived for his services from one of the Barclays Premier League’s big beasts. It was a generous one, but not sufficiently so to tempt Cortese to do business.

 

When the teenager appeared, Cortese showed him the piece of paper on which the offer was written. He did not ask him for an opinion, or give him the chance to state if he would like the club to enter into negotiations. He simply tore it up in front of him. “That,” he told him, “is what I think of that.”

 

Cortese, who left his post at the turn of the year, is the sort of character who divides opinion. Many feel that he was the ultimate architect of Southampton’s remarkable rise from the depths of the third tier to the top half of the Barclays Premier League. Others, particularly at St Mary’s, feel that life is entirely more palatable without him around.

 

What is not in question, though, is that Cortese was a fearsome opponent when it came to transfers. Few of his fellow executives in the Premier League relished the prospect of dealing with him.

It would be fascinating to know how different this week might have been had Cortese still been in charge on the south coast. The season had been over for just a few minutes when a delegation from Manchester United — by chance Southampton’s guests on the final day of the campaign — submitted, in person, a £27 million offer for Luke Shaw, only hours before he was confirmed as a member of Roy Hodgson’s World Cup squad.

 

Less than a day later, Liverpool came calling, this time for Adam Lallana, the club captain and the long-term standard-bearer for what they call “the Southampton way”. That offer of £17 million, or thereabouts, arrived remotely. Both are under consideration. Nothing has been torn up; not yet.

 

Doubtless that will serve to encourage Tottenham Hotspur, too, when they make their long-anticipated move to extricate Mauricio Pochettino, the manager, from Southampton. Ralph Krueger, Cortese’s successor, and Katharina Liebherr, the club’s owner, have done what they can to persuade the Argentinian to stay, and a new contract offer is on the table, but the most effective defence against Spurs’s predations may be one put in place by Cortese, who had a clause written into Pochettino’s deal that means the manager will have to pay, personally, £2 million if he leaves for another club.

 

The presence of Cortese, of course, would not have stopped these offers coming in; he would not have acted as an impenetrable bulwark against the circling vultures. It is hard to escape the impression, though, that those teams who have long coveted Southampton’s most precious assets feel altogether more comfortable making their intentions known than they might have done six or seven months ago.

That is regrettable, of course. The work Southampton have done over the past five years is, perhaps, the most remarkable story in English football. They are an advert for how things should be done, investing in their youth infrastructure, bringing through their own players, building sustainably.

 

Pochettino has instilled an attractive, expansive, modern ethos into the way they play. There is a restrained culture among the players that Calum Chambers, another off the production line, describes as “self-policing”.

As soon as anyone looks as if the praise is going to their heads, the rest of the squad is quick to drag them back down to earth.

 

They are reaping the rewards for all of that: an eighth-placed finish in the Barclays Premier League. Rickie Lambert, like Lallana and Shaw, is in the England squad and Jay Rodriguez might well have been, had he not been sidelined by injury. Morgan Schneiderlin is on the standby list for France.

 

All of that comes at a price. Glittering jewels attract the magpies. Not many can resist them. Krueger, upon his appointment, described how the club — forever looking to seek the extra revenues that might make them more competitive still — were considering franchising out their youth development expertise. They would give other clubs, other teams in other sports, the benefit of their wisdom at growing their own talent. It was, he said, an intelligent way of monetising their greatest asset. Indeed it is. It is just that football has long had a more straightforward way of achieving the same end: clubs who produce their talent eventually sell it to those who buy it in.

 

Southampton do not have to sell. But Liebherr, while she remains, as far as anyone can tell, committed to the club, has made it clear that they must pay their own way. If that is the case, there comes a point when they have to succumb. Not far off £50 million for two players who cost nothing is simply good business.

 

The coming days and weeks, though, will be instructive. If the aim is simply for consolidation in the Premier League, £50 million for two players — at the height of their value — is too good to turn down. If the plan is as it was, to crack the glass ceiling separating the top six from the rest, they must channel their inner Cortese. They must resist. Which path they choose will say much about where Southampton’s journey will take them next.

 

Good read

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good read

 

Agree, good article. He never claimed it was full of crazy new insightful facts so not sure what people expect. Even the opening part explains he is considering the possibilities based on SFC's decisions over the next few weeks. If the £17 million for Lallana is an accurate figure we'd need to push that to £25 million IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I reckon our customers must be getting really annoyed! We advertise an everything must go clearance sale & then when they flock to our megastore cash in hand we're being all difficult and putting prices up. If we're not careful we're gonna lose these customers & find ourselves pulled up by trading standards. Sort it out, Gruber!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good read

 

You old forum din you, how much of a dimwit you must be faro falling for this Guff... They won't catch CBFry out that easy you know 'don't tell em your name Pike' ....

 

Being ever so slightly self important and serious for a moment, the Truth is we simply do. It know what KLs long term ambitions are, nor what strategy they wish to adopt in order to achieve it. There are circumstances and strategies wher selling two players and raising close 60mil would be necessary and potentially positive and allow us to build on where we are... But without knowing, it looks depressing, as we can predict others wishing to go, and manager instability.

 

Yes we have wonderful 'open' communication from the board about the really important stuff such as the kit, but nothing on direction, focus or strategy for the next few years. If we really need to raise 60mil to pay for the academy, and 20mil for new players, fair enough, most would see the logic in that.... But I don't believe we do, and I don't believe we need to sell if we don't want to....not yet anyway. So the article does resonate with me as well, but being a din in CBFry's opinion is a badge of honour I wear with pride.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A good and fair summary of where we are.

People do realise these things aren't just written for die-hard Saints fans who pick up every paper hoping to find out every last single detail of stuff that's hardly begun?

For everybody else it was nice to see the lines 'Southampton don't need to sell' written in one of our pieces.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Cortese's time here, the only time we were really tested with bids were when Arsenal came in for Chamberlain. He still ended up going despite all this 'Cortese wouldn't allow this' ******** that's being spouted at the moment.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

The only bids we knew of. We almost certainly had more. Smith's point was that other clubs didn't plant stories and try to unsettle players when Cortese was here because they feared him.

 

Anyone criticising the piece needs to remember that it's written for the nation, not Southampton fans. Liverpool and United fans will both be interested in reading a sharp account of how we dealt and could deal with transfer gossip and bids. That's what that is.

Edited by DuncanRG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who thinks that Premier league clubs were scared of dealing with us under Nicola are deluded.

 

Do people really believe that had he stayed Liverpool wouldn't be bidding for Lallana or Shaw would be staying because nobody had the Balls to ring up "The Don".

 

How hard must Fat Sam Gold and Sullivan be, actually trying to buy Rickie whilst The Don was ruling the manor.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who thinks that Premier league clubs were scared of dealing with us under Nicola are deluded.

 

Do people really believe that had he stayed Liverpool wouldn't be bidding for Lallana or Shaw would be staying because nobody had the Balls to ring up "The Don".

 

How hard must Fat Sam Gold and Sullivan be, actually trying to buy Rickie whilst The Don was ruling the manor.

 

Of course not. But no doubt he wouldn't have openly invited offers like Krueger has.

 

Since the new Board came in, some of the comments read like we are a league one club on the verge of administration.

 

Maybe we are (on the verge of administration) but if not then why comment like they have.

 

They seem like they want to sell the players, rather than have to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting this "probably wouldn't have happened on Cortese's watch". What wouldn't have? It's always a rather foolish thing to do to under estimate a person you are trying to do business with. How many of the other PL chairmen know what RK is about? He may be outwardly different to NC, but he has hardly got his feet under the table. NC tearing up offers, I believe LR said that no players were for sale. And frankly, if someone was going to offer £30m for an 18 year old, I think that you would be more than foolish not to consider it.

 

The problem in all this is that too many people are thinking that certain individuals are bigger than the club. While the ship is steady at the moment, who is to say that if certain people leave, like NC or MP, that their replacement can't do an equally good or better job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In Cortese's time here, the only time we were really tested with bids were when Arsenal came in for Chamberlain. He still ended up going despite all this 'Cortese wouldn't allow this' ******** that's being spouted at the moment.

 

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

It has been repeatedly said that offers came in for other players, not least Lallana who has even said he had chances to leave for the premier league on at least 2 occasions on the way up, as well as "2" chances to join Liverpool since being in the premier league.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who thinks that Premier league clubs were scared of dealing with us under Nicola are deluded.

 

Do people really believe that had he stayed Liverpool wouldn't be bidding for Lallana or Shaw would be staying because nobody had the Balls to ring up "The Don".

 

How hard must Fat Sam Gold and Sullivan be, actually trying to buy Rickie whilst The Don was ruling the manor.

 

If it wasn't Rickie, £6m-£8m for a 32 year old striker with 1.5 seasons of top flight footy under his belt and maybe 1 season left in him is fantastic business, you are aware of that right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am pretty sure morgan said in one of his interviews that Cortese showed him the bid offer when we were in League 1 and ripped it up in front of him and said he was the foundation for us.

 

Edit - I knew I wasn't going mad, post from last june when morgan was a "done deal" to Real Sociedad"

Cortese will have to call him into the office and rip up another transfer offer in front of him.
Edited by Convict Colony
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So we've had bids but haven't accepted them, whereas under Cortese we had bids and didn't accept them.

It's some journo just making sh!t up. Still it reads good.

 

Pretty much this at the moment although NC did except bids (Oxo for sure and most likely Lambert to)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only bids we knew of. We almost certainly had more. Smith's point was that other clubs didn't plant stories and try to unsettle players when Cortese was here because they feared him.

Anyone criticising the piece needs to remember that it's written for the nation, not Southampton fans. Liverpool and United fans will both be interested in reading a sharp account of how we dealt and could deal with transfer gossip and bids. That's what that is.

 

Feared him? I doubt it. What was he going to do to the chairman of another football club for daring to bid for one of our players? Plus the strong speculation (from Adam Blackmore among others) is that NC is the one stirring the **** in the media at the moment anyway.

Edited by doddisalegend
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone who thinks that Premier league clubs were scared of dealing with us under Nicola are deluded.

 

Do people really believe that had he stayed Liverpool wouldn't be bidding for Lallana or Shaw would be staying because nobody had the Balls to ring up "The Don".

 

How hard must Fat Sam Gold and Sullivan be, actually trying to buy Rickie whilst The Don was ruling the manor.

 

Nobody's suggesting that clubs were afraid to make bids. What seems to be true is they thought twice before planting stories in the press and trying to unsettle people at the club.

 

You can't deny that there is far more press noise at the moment than at any point during Cortese's reign. It helps that our players are better now but the publicity has swelled faster than their desirability. The 'meltdown/exodus' hysteria was no doubt partly down to clubs with an interest in our players seeing an opportunity to rock the boat.

 

Some of that uncertainty is still there now, and other clubs are taking the opportunity.

Edited by DuncanRG
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did the players fear him? I was led to believe they worshipped him, and he was the only reason for staying at the club for a lot of players. Anyways, we still can't be sure of Ralph's plans and how he operates regarding transfer business. Does anyone know if he has any experience in this, or is it purely just dealing with coaching, motivating and scouting ice hockey players?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The only bids we knew of. We almost certainly had more. Smith's point was that other clubs didn't plant stories and try to unsettle players when Cortese was here because they feared him.
:lol: What the f**k? Stories weren't planted because the CEO and Chairmen of PL clubs were scared of NC? That's a classic.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If it wasn't Rickie, £6m-£8m for a 32 year old striker with 1.5 seasons of top flight footy under his belt and maybe 1 season left in him is fantastic business, you are aware of that right?

 

Yeah would have been great business especially considering the second half of the season where we would have had just Sam Gallagher leading the line. Rather keep Lambert myself as his game doesn't relay on pace his age is pretty irrelevant we are a worse team without him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyways, we still can't be sure of Ralph's plans and how he operates regarding transfer business. Does anyone know if he has any experience in this, or is it purely just dealing with coaching, motivating and scouting ice hockey players?

 

It won't be his job so don't see why it matters. It's Les Reed's job to handle any transfer negotiations. The same Les Reed who was NC's right hand man for 3 and half years

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It won't be his job so don't see why it matters. It's Les Reed's job to handle any transfer negotiations. The same Les Reed who was NC's right hand man for 3 and half years

 

Oh right. So all the stories about Cortese ripping up transfer bids and being feared are untrue, and the real mafia don is in fact, Les Reed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh right. So all the stories about Cortese ripping up transfer bids and being feared are untrue, and the real mafia don is in fact, Les Reed?

 

I didn't say that. When NC was here he was in charge of everything. He couldn't have it any other way with his ego. The new board structure in place delegates and Les Reed, with his football experience, is now in charge of football related matters, as he said in his statement a few weeks ago

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks to the OP and CC for posting this. I read it on the train this morning, and as with any newspaper article you have to do your mental filtering. However, I thought it was a half decent and partially well thought out article (that could easily have been condensed into a couple of para's).

 

For me the most telling bit was the last two paragraphs...........

 

For those who don't buy it:.................................

 

Southampton do not have to sell. But Liebherr, while she remains, as far as anyone can tell, committed to the club, has made it clear that they must pay their own way. If that is the case, there comes a point when they have to succumb. Not far off £50 million for two players who cost nothing is simply good business.

 

The coming days and weeks, though, will be instructive. If the aim is simply for consolidation in the Premier League, £50 million for two players — at the height of their value — is too good to turn down. If the plan is as it was, to crack the glass ceiling separating the top six from the rest, they must channel their inner Cortese. They must resist. Which path they choose will say much about where Southampton’s journey will take them next.

 

1. KL, although possibly committed doesn't seem to want to put too much of her own readies into the club - which is fairly sensible

 

2. The last paragraph where I think the journo is spot on. Cortese must have been a tough negotiator, and clearly, now he is out of the way the big clubs think that they can come and cherry pick (as mentioned in the article)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason why the vultures circled around the club and why these offers have streamed in for half our squad and our manager has little to do with us being seen as open for business. It is purely because our financial director naively and rather stupidly put it in the public domain that the financial situation was a cause for concern. This article at least says that the club have no need to sell the players if we do not wish to do so, but pretty well every other article in the media states that players will need to be sold to balance the books.

 

Yes, it is natural that top clubs will covet our star players and attempt to buy them, but had we not released that statement, we would not have had the ridiculously low amounts offered for them and the incessant repetition of the stories assuming that just because Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelski etc want to buy our players, we will roll over and accept their paltry offers with gratitude. Even now, a press release saying that our financial situation causes us no worries and we do not wish to sell any of those players who are the subject of current speculation, would go a long way towards offsetting the press speculation and reassuring the fanbase too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Krueger on Sunday: "Fans should respect that we will be holding conversations with clubs from tomorrow (in response to Lallana rumours).

 

Laughable comment to make publically, just like the Hofsetter one re "difficult financial situation".

 

If that's true, I have zero respect for that. How can you expect people to respect that? Unless they're offering 30 mil...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rory Smith: Southampton do not have to sell. But Liebherr, while she remains, as far as anyone can tell, committed to the club, has made it clear that they must pay their own way. If that is the case, there comes a point when they have to succumb. Not far off £50 million for two players who cost nothing is simply good business.

 

The coming days and weeks, though, will be instructive. If the aim is simply for consolidation in the Premier League, £50 million for two players — at the height of their value — is too good to turn down. If the plan is as it was, to crack the glass ceiling separating the top six from the rest, they must channel their inner Cortese. They must resist. Which path they choose will say much about where Southampton’s journey will take them next.

 

So the players cost us nothing, eh? We spent nothing on developing them since they arrived here at a very tender age? Nothing in pay when they starting playing in the first team?

 

At the height of their value? Don't be an idiot, Rory. You might as well have stated that we sold Bale at the height of his value too. Even in the short term, both players are likely to be worth more even at the conclusion of the World Cup than they are now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the players cost us nothing, eh? We spent nothing on developing them since they arrived here at a very tender age? Nothing in pay when they starting playing in the first team?

 

At the height of their value? Don't be an idiot, Rory. You might as well have stated that we sold Bale at the height of his value too. Even in the short term, both players are likely to be worth more even at the conclusion of the World Cup than they are now.

 

yes, the players cost nothing in terms of a fee

why is that so hard to grasp?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason why the vultures circled around the club and why these offers have streamed in for half our squad and our manager has little to do with us being seen as open for business. It is purely because our financial director naively and rather stupidly put it in the public domain that the financial situation was a cause for concern. This article at least says that the club have no need to sell the players if we do not wish to do so, but pretty well every other article in the media states that players will need to be sold to balance the books.

 

Yes, it is natural that top clubs will covet our star players and attempt to buy them, but had we not released that statement, we would not have had the ridiculously low amounts offered for them and the incessant repetition of the stories assuming that just because Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelski etc want to buy our players, we will roll over and accept their paltry offers with gratitude. Even now, a press release saying that our financial situation causes us no worries and we do not wish to sell any of those players who are the subject of current speculation, would go a long way towards offsetting the press speculation and reassuring the fanbase too.

 

a) It's jack sh it to do with the FD's statement and everything to do with the fact that Liverpool and Man U want Shaw and Lallana.

 

b) What "ridiculously low amounts" are these then? Funny how Captain "I believe nothing in the papers, me" seems so happy to swallow whole whatever finger in the air monopoly money a newspaper prints. You have no idea whatsoever on who has bid what.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is one line in that article which will make somebody turn in their grave...

 

Franchising out the Academy Model....

 

Now where did he find THAT idea then?

 

FFS

 

 

Yep, I was drawn to the line too. That is a genuinely new revelation. Reminds me of what the big prestigious US unis do in your neck of the woods, setting up branch campuses for the locals. Don't particularly like the idea, though I'm not particularly concerned that it would let the cat out of the bag and create new competitors. Far easier to transfer form than substance which is the real secret sauce.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...