Son of Bob Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Sadly I think we have. I reckon this season was as good as it's going to get for us. With Shaw and Lallana all but gone and a battle likely for us to retain players like Lovren and Schneiderlin it will all be downhill. If Pochettino clears his desk as well, even the glue that holds the current squad together will be gone. I suspect we will get 2nd rate replacements for our top players and finding a Manager to replace MP will be very tough. Not impossible, but very tough. The ambition that existed at the club seems to have petered out, replaced by a need to make us solid, dependable and financially viable. I was starting to think we had moved on but this summer will prove we are still an average, mid-table club who cannot retain players when they step up a level. We have punched above our weight this season due to 3 or 4 star players and once again it is sadly looking like they will jump ship to move their careers forward at bigger, better clubs. To be brutally honest I can see us really struggling next season. With the quality gone and the liklihood of decidedly average replacements I could see us 'doing a Norwich'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Yes. Today is one of the saddest days in the history of the club. The day we accept that we have come as far as we can and won't try to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Said it in January to enjoy what we have now as this is the highest we go. Sadly yes we have but I can hope we will get a bit further in the cups over the next few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Yes, also doom doom doom doom doom doom doom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 (edited) If all the speculation is true and the club are preparing to flog half the first xi then obviously we've peaked. You can't attract players of a similar quality if all they see are top players leaving in droves. Still fervently hoping that we'll keep the manager and lose no more than 1. The notion of Krueger being a smiling asset stripper is too desperate to contemplate. Edited 12 May, 2014 by Baird of the land Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Yes. Today is one of the saddest days in the history of the club. The day we accept that we have come as far as we can and won't try to improve. It's not whether we try to improve, of course the club will try to improve. The problem is I can't see how we can. if we can't retain a player like Lallana after our most successful season in the modern era what hope is there? The main virtually bleeds red and white stripes yet he looks as though he is going to jump ship at the first opportunity. We've never been in a better position in the Premiership years yet we still can't retain players who show any decent level of ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Reckon we'll lose Lallana. But how many more points would we have got last season if we didn't have to play Jos or Gazzanigga, or Gallagher(give the lad time, he's got time to improve). Poch will improve the side in these positions, and Lallana, sadly, will be replaced. I reckon the net effect will be a stronger squad next season, so who knows if we have peaked. I'm not ready to hang myself just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 It's not whether we try to improve, of course the club will try to improve. The problem is I can't see how we can. if we can't retain a player like Lallana after our most successful season in the modern era what hope is there? The main virtually bleeds red and white stripes yet he looks as though he is going to jump ship at the first opportunity. We've never been in a better position in the Premiership years yet we still can't retain players who show any decent level of ability. Not the first opportunity though. Fulham wanted him a while ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 OMG.......we haven't sold anyone yet and some are saying this is the worst day in the history of the club. Have you forgotten when we went into administration. Personally don't think we have hit high water mark. We seem to have a good crop of youngsters coming through that will hopefully make their mark over the next couple of seasons and if we can make some good buys the n next season could be interesting. Lets face it Osvaldo was a big signing and is a disaster and Gaston has not proven his full worth yet (although encouraging signs this season) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 OMG.......we haven't sold anyone yet and some are saying this is the worst day in the history of the club. Have you forgotten when we went into administration. Personally don't think we have hit high water mark. We seem to have a good crop of youngsters coming through that will hopefully make their mark over the next couple of seasons and if we can make some good buys the n next season could be interesting. Lets face it Osvaldo was a big signing and is a disaster and Gaston has not proven his full worth yet (although encouraging signs this season) Wtf you on about? Someone was just asking the question and giving their opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
so22saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 probably. but then again, the championship and league one promotions were brilliant fun and football will never be what it was when I was a kid - the gap between rich in poor in the league matches the gulf in rich and poor in society and there would need to be a revolution to turn that around (e.g. for breach of the FFP regulations Man City are deducted 30 points, wage cap on players, player draft type thing or something aimed at the quality of the academy, 8 home grown players in the first team every week or you're docked points - that sort of thing). I say probably as it depends on the quality of our next generation - If Targett and Reed can replace AL and LS, and we can ship out Osvaldo and get in 2 decent attacking options for big money then we could match this year. So, not a "yes" (though that's how it feels emotionally - makes me feel sick to read the BBC news site at the moment), not a "no" as you'd be mental to think we're about to break into the top 6, but a "who the eff knows" at the moment. Btw, if MoPo goes to Spurs, would it make sense to take Sherwood in return - I think he's got something about him (something ****ing frightening ;-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 We've not peaked as a club in my opinion, but we have hit a glass ceiling. To exceed that glass ceiling then you need ambition and drive to reach for the stars. I'm not saying I believed any of the CL guff...but it was ambition, and if you aim for the stars you usually get a decent season out of it - which is what we've had. Last season, MP closed the season with a reaction to Chelsea's interest in Shaw etc. with the line ''They need to be worried about what players we want from them!!'' - obviously tongue very firmly in cheek, but it was a good reflection of the feeling in and around the club and the genuine ambition that was really there. What do we get this year? ''Other clubs have more clout than us'' ''We'll do what's best for the club''. Yeah, Brilliant. We're at a cross-roads, we either go that extra mile and try to get up there with the likes of Everton, Spurs etc.....or we stop and subside back into the lower reaches of the league, unfortunately it seems as if this is what we have chosen to do. It's clear that NC had seriously ambitious plans for this football club but as each day goes, it's clear that KL didn't have the same plans, ideas or financial clout to achieve any of it - the comments re: inheriting a difficult financial situation screamed alarm bells for me, and from that moment on we were primed for sales. It's likely that we will lose a few this summer, whilst Chambers is also attracting big interest, but we may have him for another year. The waffle coming from RK is just that, PR guff. I don't really buy into these talkative chairman as quite honestly they usually achieve jack **** - talk is talk, but actions speak louder and the actions aren't matching the talk it has to be said. NC was a nasty piece of work, had no time for reputations or history, but he achieved results in what actually mattered - the here and the now. It's been an incredible 5 years, but it does make you feel a bit depressed that we're about to see it all ripped apart in front of our eyes - it's been fun, but I guess in 18 months or so, we'll be wondering if it was actually worth it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 probably. but then again, the championship and league one promotions were brilliant fun and football will never be what it was when I was a kid - the gap between rich in poor in the league matches the gulf in rich and poor in society and there would need to be a revolution to turn that around (e.g. for breach of the FFP regulations Man City are deducted 30 points, wage cap on players, player draft type thing or something aimed at the quality of the academy, 8 home grown players in the first team every week or you're docked points - that sort of thing). I say probably as it depends on the quality of our next generation - If Targett and Reed can replace AL and LS, and we can ship out Osvaldo and get in 2 decent attacking options for big money then we could match this year. So, not a "yes" (though that's how it feels emotionally - makes me feel sick to read the BBC news site at the moment), not a "no" as you'd be mental to think we're about to break into the top 6, but a "who the eff knows" at the moment. Btw, if MoPo goes to Spurs, would it make sense to take Sherwood in return - I think he's got something about him (something ****ing frightening ;-)) I know what you're saying but then what happens when Targett and Reed start setting the South Coast alight? They'll be picked up by bigger clubs and we'll be back to square one. We have one of the best academies around but all it's doing is placing top players on a conveyor belt to the top 4/5 clubs with maybe one good season for us on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Sadly I think we have. I reckon this season was as good as it's going to get for us. With Shaw and Lallana all but gone and a battle likely for us to retain players like Lovren and Schneiderlin it will all be downhill. If Pochettino clears his desk as well, even the glue that holds the current squad together will be gone. I suspect we will get 2nd rate replacements for our top players and finding a Manager to replace MP will be very tough. Not impossible, but very tough. The ambition that existed at the club seems to have petered out, replaced by a need to make us solid, dependable and financially viable. I was starting to think we had moved on but this summer will prove we are still an average, mid-table club who cannot retain players when they step up a level. We have punched above our weight this season due to 3 or 4 star players and once again it is sadly looking like they will jump ship to move their careers forward at bigger, better clubs. To be brutally honest I can see us really struggling next season. With the quality gone and the liklihood of decidedly average replacements I could see us 'doing a Norwich'. When Shaw and Lallana have gone (which is apparently imminent) and Pochettino has left too, and the ensuing chaos means that several other players will follow through the door marked exit, then it will be the time to be concerned. However, even then there is the prospect that we might appoint a manager better than Pochettino. We did so when Adkins took over from Pardew and again when Pochettino took over from Adkins, but for some reason, Pochettino is as good a manager as we can hope for. We might also bring in better replacements for any player who leaves, or there might be academy products on the way through that will be better than Shaw and Lallana. When the likes of Bale, Walcott and the Ox left, I suspect that many didn't realise that Shaw, Ward-Prowse, Chambers and Gallagher could step up and not look out of place in the first team. There are several others in the pipeline. Will we stop identifying players like Cork, Wanyama, Clyne, Davis, Schneiderlin, Fonte who we can bring in at reasonable cost all of a sudden? We have arguably the most successful academy in the country and a seriously good scouting operation. The time to start worrying is when we fail to replace any players who leave with equal or better players before the kick-off for the next season. The time to worry is not now when nobody has yet left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Bob Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 If we retained MP, Lallana and Shaw over the summer I would believe the hype but the sad fact is they, along with 1 or 2 other top players at the club, WILL go before next season starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 We've not peaked as a club in my opinion, but we have hit a glass ceiling. To exceed that glass ceiling then you need ambition and drive to reach for the stars. I'm not saying I believed any of the CL guff...but it was ambition, and if you aim for the stars you usually get a decent season out of it - which is what we've had. Last season, MP closed the season with a reaction to Chelsea's interest in Shaw etc. with the line ''They need to be worried about what players we want from them!!'' - obviously tongue very firmly in cheek, but it was a good reflection of the feeling in and around the club and the genuine ambition that was really there. What do we get this year? ''Other clubs have more clout than us'' ''We'll do what's best for the club''. Yeah, Brilliant. We're at a cross-roads, we either go that extra mile and try to get up there with the likes of Everton, Spurs etc.....or we stop and subside back into the lower reaches of the league, unfortunately it seems as if this is what we have chosen to do. It's clear that NC had seriously ambitious plans for this football club but as each day goes, it's clear that KL didn't have the same plans, ideas or financial clout to achieve any of it - the comments re: inheriting a difficult financial situation screamed alarm bells for me, and from that moment on we were primed for sales. It's likely that we will lose a few this summer, whilst Chambers is also attracting big interest, but we may have him for another year. The waffle coming from RK is just that, PR guff. I don't really buy into these talkative chairman as quite honestly they usually achieve jack **** - talk is talk, but actions speak louder and the actions aren't matching the talk it has to be said. NC was a nasty piece of work, had no time for reputations or history, but he achieved results in what actually mattered - the here and the now. It's been an incredible 5 years, but it does make you feel a bit depressed that we're about to see it all ripped apart in front of our eyes - it's been fun, but I guess in 18 months or so, we'll be wondering if it was actually worth it! Spot on, it does make you question the whole purpose of the five year plan if it's not going to be built on. It's just so frustrating as a fan that from having a great season which ended a few hours ago, we are now just discussing negative things. Ralph talks a good game and it seems harsh to judge him but there's nothing to suggest he has any ambitious plans for the club like Cortese did. Today we should be happy that we have 3 players selected for an England World cup squad, yet the reality is only one of them will be a Southampton player by the time the first game arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.JonB Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 You might need drive and ambition to reach the stars but you also need a lot of money. Why we should expect someone to bankroll us to this extent I'm not sure. I Think we are in a very strong position as a club with lots of great players who will either be playing for us next year or replaced with money we will get for them. The majority of football fans would swap with us. Take pride in the England squad and enjoy the summer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 I'd rather be in League One looking up then the Prem looking down. Being a team on the up for once was awesome, it's very hard to get excited knowing that if we can't keep our best youth players after our best ever Premiership season whilst having well off owners we're never going to. I'd have no problem having no major signings as long as we could keep hold of our academy players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 You might need drive and ambition to reach the stars but you also need a lot of money. Why we should expect someone to bankroll us to this extent I'm not sure. I Think we are in a very strong position as a club with lots of great players who will either be playing for us next year or replaced with money we will get for them. The majority of football fans would swap with us. Take pride in the England squad and enjoy the summer. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Absolutely, investment is the key. But my argument is that if KL isn't prepared to invest, then sell us to someone who is. I don't want to see us become a Villa MK2 after Randy pulled back on his investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 do not be down supporting saints is about the journey, good and bad, one good thing was in 84 when arguably we were the best side in the country there was no wrist slashing internet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.JonB Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Absolutely, investment is the key. But my argument is that if KL isn't prepared to invest, then sell us to someone who is. I don't want to see us become a Villa MK2 after Randy pulled back on his investment. I'll leave it with you to find a billionaire willing to chuck their money at us then! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beancounter saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Absolutely, investment is the key. But my argument is that if KL isn't prepared to invest, then sell us to someone who is. I don't want to see us become a Villa MK2 after Randy pulled back on his investment. The thing is it's not an investment, more of a vanity project isn't it to own a top Prem side? When all is taken together I expect if she were to sell up now, Ms Liebherr could take away a small profit compared to the purchase price paid by her father and all the money put in since then. However, for someone coming in now, the chances of them walking away with a profit after pumping in the hundreds of millions required to have a good shot at the very top would be slim to negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Hypo......if you reread my post it was not aimed at the OP, it was aimed at Saint Tony who came out with that ridiculous remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Hypo......if you reread my post it was not aimed at the OP, it was aimed at Saint Tony who came out with that ridiculous remark. OK sorry I was confused because you said some said when actually it was just one bloke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Absolutely, investment is the key. But my argument is that if KL isn't prepared to invest, then sell us to someone who is. I don't want to see us become a Villa MK2 after Randy pulled back on his investment. I believe that KL is willing to invest, but invest responsibly. I'm still waiting for some kind of credible response - any response, actually - to a question I have posed several times on here: Why would the intensely private Katharina (remember, nobody could even find a picture of this mega-rich heiress at the start) take a high-profile position in one of the highest-profile sports leagues in the world if she planned on leading it to stagnation and then a downward spiral? The club was extremely valuable and extremely salable when she took over but A) she didn't sell it, and B) she stepped out of the shadows to lead it. Let's not confuse want-away players and end-of-season instability with lack of ambition. I have no idea what our club will look like in August but I think it will be pursuing a carefully considered and well-funded plan to improve on this year's progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Good post Canada - as I posted in another thread, we all want to see improvement and investment, but it has to be within our means, and that may mean player sales in order to improve the squad as a whole. I think SoB's view is a particularly pessimistic one, but it's entirely understandable and it *is* possible. I tend to agree that improvement from 8th is likely to be very difficult, but not impossible, but also that, just like when Adkins left and we knew nothing of Pochettino, there might be another manager out there who could improve us? We just don't know. Personally, even if Adam, Luke and MoPO all leave, I don't think we'll be battling relegation - I think we're still attractive enough to get a good manager and recruit good players that can improve the squad overall. But I've always been an optimist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkeith Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Don't think we have peaked and I don't believe the gap into the next level is as huge as some might think. Had we won both games against Spurs, Yesterdays game would have seen the winner end up in 6th place and with European place. Even if some players leave, we still have very good foundations to build on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 (edited) Have we peaked ?.........with this current squad ....perhaps. we'll all be sorry to see any one of our favourites leave, but if Adam stays another 5 years then the likes of JWP, Harry Reed & Co. will never get a look in. I think we also have to respect Adam's wishes.....IF ...he want a move, then he has deserved it as much as anyone. Get the feeling that if Pochettino signs a new contract, then he has the last word on who goes or stays..... Edited 12 May, 2014 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 We have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliemiller Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 If we can keep VW , Morgan and Cork in Midfield and Lovren ,Boruc in defence . The back bone of the team , many of these players will actually improve next season as they will be a year older and more experienced . If VW stays fit we dont concede many goals at all , strengthen up front even if we lose LS and Adam next year could actually be better results wise . Funny the style we played in 2003 was high intensity pressing , based on supreme fitness . Maybe Gordon strachan was ahead of his time !! I dont think this journey has peaked yet . Fingers crossed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVEADAMS Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Some people need to calm down, wait and see and stop getting ready to jump off the itchen bridge. Nothing has been announced yet, so we do not know our direction. KL has been making all the right noises until now and only a couple of weeks ago everyone was happy. Yes we're concerned but let's see how things take shape, so many ridiculous comments about asset stripping etc. We are a victim of our own success this season and it may well be that the likes of Lallana et al. have had their heads turned, which will be disappointing, after previous comments about seeing his career out here, but I don't think things are as definite as some make out. The club has moved quickly after finishing the season with the manager, so I hope that translates as a message to the players and us that we are not going to just sit back. We wait with baited breath SFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
once_bitterne Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Net worth: John Henry: £850m Kat Liebherr: £3bn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 I'd rather be in League One looking up then the Prem looking down. Being a team on the up for once was awesome, it's very hard to get excited knowing that if we can't keep our best youth players after our best ever Premiership season whilst having well off owners we're never going to. I'd have no problem having no major signings as long as we could keep hold of our academy players. Yeah, it was great to be us in League One. Not so great to be Carlisle. Would you be as keen if stagnation in League One (or in Carlisle's case, relegation) was the norm? Not sure I would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjsaint Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 It's been a great year. I refuse to let the red tops and the Sky 4 ruin that for me. I think MP will go, his heart isn't in it. I also think we are more than capable of attracting another capable manager. Rupert's gone, we won't be looking to League One or the Dutch ninth division. I also think MP will struggle with the expectation at Spurs (if the rumours are true and that is where he goes) and may not be there very long at all. Shaw and/or Lallana. If they go, they go, but it should be for silly money. £20m for AL is derisory in my opinion. Luke should smash the record of highest fee ever paid for a defender. I say £30-35m for Shaw, £45-50m for Lallana. Maybe I'm bonkers but if Carroll went for £35m, Torres for £50m, £15m (or was it £20m) for Henderson, then it's obvious the money is there. Right now, I am basking in the glow of a great season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommi Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 One of the important factors we are forgetting is regulation and regulation changes and how they may affect the future of English/European football. This club has taken a bottom up approach to development over many years, none more so than in the recent past. Investments in the training ground, academy, Southampton way may prove to be visionary in the not too distant future. I firmly believe football is on the cusp of a significant change, where our strategy of building from within will pay dividends. Take a look at the stats out there now based on home grown, youth players, English players, goals scored by English players, % of home grown players in the match day squad etc and watch this trend continue to rise and become more relevant as the football authorities push through the significant pipeline of regulatory changes. As a club, being sustainable and building from within with the best crop of youth talent (both in the match day squad and coming through the ranks) will hold us in good stead as the changes start to resonate. The days of buying short term success are numbered (for me!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now