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Adam Lallana - Medical at Liverpool

Dr Who?

By Dr Who?,
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shurlock

shurlock

Posted
Posted
But we'll still have to give Bournemouth 25% of the total so the cash element will be sorely eroded. We'd end up with the 2 players (and their subsequently higher wage bill element) and about 5 million in cash. Not the sort of deal we should be considering really. 25 million outright, we give Bournemoth their share and buy a really good replacement for about 15... quids in.

 

Why?

 

We would get £9m after Bournemouth gets its 25%, compared to £18.75m if Liverpool pay in straight cash (£25m). Borini and Enrique combined are arguably worth more than £9.75m. Yes there are wages to consider but these are positions that are likely to be strengthened and thus consume part of the wage bill anyway.

 

Obviously, this is a very simplified example -there is the split between guaranteed fee and add-ons to consider; but in principle, doing a player swap is the fairest and most efficient to limit our obligations to Bournemouth.

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Guan 2.0

Guan 2.0

Posted
Posted
See Guan's comments from yesterday -

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?50568-Latest-information&p=1959420#post1959420

 

His agent or Liverpool could remind Bournemouth that 100% of 3 million pounds is worth more than 25% of £0. Plus he could give up his 'Loyalty' bonus.

 

That was a hypothetical (but rather appropriate) suggestion from myself, not a source. My bad, should have made that clear. The information I had confirmed was it was Lallana (or his camp) who were leaking first to Adam Blackmore, and then Ben Smith complaining about our attitude in not just accepting the Liverpool offer. The other clarification was not behind any 'hatchet job' stories such as nudity/planning permission, as it is not the type of exposure to hold a market value (except a negative down-trend).

 

One discussion my source and I had was the event in which Adam stays. How would he go about it? It would seem impossible the other players would accept him as captain again, he wouldn't have the good will of the crowd, and I know at least one local media figure (not Blackmore) who has been very supportive of him would not be so understanding in his coverage. If he does move, he can't expect any of niceties that Lambert received (that was a reward for being, patient, courteous and professional, the same words applied to Shaw for his handling of the current speculation, I am allowed to say that much). Even if he penned an open letter, hinting that he was pushed or it's not his fault, the fans would know it for a lie, and the board would not print it!

 

As I've said before, it's truly bizarre that he was the one to break cover, as a widespread assumption was that the club was simply weak or making a false economy out of player sales. In my own opinion, I can only imagine he thought he would be given a days grace to complete his move to Liverpool, then fly out on his own. But that seems far fetched to say the least!

 

On the good news front, I'm told the club are "ahead of schedule" in their manager search, and may even announce before the world cup opener on the 12th, if everything continues to run smooth. Otherwise, the appointment will be ideally announced in the "aftermath of a non-event game and the build up of an unattractive fixture" to ensure maximum coverage. And no, I haven't been told the names. :x

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Why?

 

We would get £9m after Bournemouth gets its 25%, compared to £18.75m if Liverpool pay in straight cash (£25m). Borini and Enrique combined are arguably worth more than £9.75m. Yes there are wages to consider but these are positions that are likely to be strengthened and thus consume part of the wage bill anyway.

 

 

 

Obviously, this is a very simplified example -there is the split between guaranteed fee and add-ons to consider; but in principle, doing a player swap is the fairest and most efficient to limit our obligations to Bournemouth

 

Ah no no it doesn't work like that at all. Their cut would be calculated on the estimated value of the whole deal not just on the cash element. If they don't like what we propose to them they'll ask for a tribunal to evaluate the deal and we'd have to pay them 25% of the total estimated value. You just cannot contourn contractual and legally binding agreements with jiggery pokery like that. We will end up giving Bournemouth upwards of 5.5 million £ in cash.

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted
Dave, I don't disagree with that. There was a reason why we failed to turn dominance into goals so often last season, and - for all his magical moments - Lallana was part of it. That said, we'd still have to replace him, and if I knew who his replacement would be I'd be more inclined to say "screw it, just let him go".

 

I'm concerned that too much anti-Lallana venom from our fans hands more cards to Liverpool and makes things worse if they pull out and leave him (and us) with zero options other than to stay. Yes, he would need to eat a big chunk of humble pie, which wouldn't be easy, but I'm just advocating taking the steam out of this.

 

On the other hand it would certainly concentrate his mind if his local hero status was no more. However I sense Saints are more than ready to let him go at the right price.

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Mallagroth

Mallagroth

Posted
Posted
That was a hypothetical (but rather appropriate) suggestion from myself, not a source. My bad, should have made that clear. The information I had confirmed was it was Lallana (or his camp) who were leaking first to Adam Blackmore, and then Ben Smith complaining about our attitude in not just accepting the Liverpool offer. The other clarification was not behind any 'hatchet job' stories such as nudity/planning permission, as it is not the type of exposure to hold a market value (except a negative down-trend).

 

One discussion my source and I had was the event in which Adam stays. How would he go about it? It would seem impossible the other players would accept him as captain again, he wouldn't have the good will of the crowd, and I know at least one local media figure (not Blackmore) who has been very supportive of him would not be so understanding in his coverage. If he does move, he can't expect any of niceties that Lambert received (that was a reward for being, patient, courteous and professional, the same words applied to Shaw for his handling of the current speculation, I am allowed to say that much). Even if he penned an open letter, hinting that he was pushed or it's not his fault, the fans would know it for a lie, and the board would not print it!

 

As I've said before, it's truly bizarre that he was the one to break cover, as a widespread assumption was that the club was simply weak or making a false economy out of player sales. In my own opinion, I can only imagine he thought he would be given a days grace to complete his move to Liverpool, then fly out on his own. But that seems far fetched to say the least!

 

On the good news front, I'm told the club are "ahead of schedule" in their manager search, and may even announce before the world cup opener on the 12th, if everything continues to run smooth. Otherwise, the appointment will be ideally announced in the "aftermath of a non-event game and the build up of an unattractive fixture" to ensure maximum coverage. And no, I haven't been told the names. :x

 

Thx Guan you are keeping me and several others sane i suspect. Whether there is agenda or not behind this, one man is not bigger than the club… well except me of course.

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Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Posted
Posted
That was a hypothetical (but rather appropriate) suggestion from myself, not a source. My bad, should have made that clear. The information I had confirmed was it was Lallana (or his camp) who were leaking first to Adam Blackmore, and then Ben Smith complaining about our attitude in not just accepting the Liverpool offer. The other clarification was not behind any 'hatchet job' stories such as nudity/planning permission, as it is not the type of exposure to hold a market value (except a negative down-trend).

 

One discussion my source and I had was the event in which Adam stays. How would he go about it? It would seem impossible the other players would accept him as captain again, he wouldn't have the good will of the crowd, and I know at least one local media figure (not Blackmore) who has been very supportive of him would not be so understanding in his coverage. If he does move, he can't expect any of niceties that Lambert received (that was a reward for being, patient, courteous and professional, the same words applied to Shaw for his handling of the current speculation, I am allowed to say that much). Even if he penned an open letter, hinting that he was pushed or it's not his fault, the fans would know it for a lie, and the board would not print it!

 

As I've said before, it's truly bizarre that he was the one to break cover, as a widespread assumption was that the club was simply weak or making a false economy out of player sales. In my own opinion, I can only imagine he thought he would be given a days grace to complete his move to Liverpool, then fly out on his own. But that seems far fetched to say the least!

 

On the good news front, I'm told the club are "ahead of schedule" in their manager search, and may even announce before the world cup opener on the 12th, if everything continues to run smooth. Otherwise, the appointment will be ideally announced in the "aftermath of a non-event game and the build up of an unattractive fixture" to ensure maximum coverage. And no, I haven't been told the names. :x

 

Thanks for the clarification. 2+2=5 on my part.

 

However this is how id imagine deals are brokered and resolved (sometimes). It would be prudent and advisable for us to approach AFCB with such an offer. Like you say £3m to buy out the 25% share is better than 25% of £0

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Thanks for the clarification. 2+2=5 on my part.

 

However this is how id imagine deals are brokered and resolved (sometimes). It would be prudent and advisable for us to approach AFCB with such an offer. Like you say £3m to buy out the 25% share is better than 25% of £0

 

 

But if Liverpool have actually offered us a take it or leave it 25 million £ (and AFCB would know how to verify that) then their share is 6.25 million so why would they settle for 3 million when it opens the door to us accepting the offered 25 million and thus depriving them of 6.25 million £. It suits Saints and Liverpool no doubt but it won't suit Bournemouth, we'd have to go to at least 5 million to get their agreement to that sort of deal. At the end of the day there'll have to be a bit of give and take from each element but we can't really expect Bournemouth to make the lion's share of the effort.

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Scummer

Scummer

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Posted
But if Liverpool have actually offered us a take it or leave it 25 million £ (and AFCB would know how to verify that) then their share is 6.25 million so why would they settle for 3 million when it opens the door to us accepting the offered 25 million and thus depriving them of 6.25 million £. It suits Saints and Liverpool no doubt but it won't suit Bournemouth, we'd have to go to at least 5 million to get their agreement to that sort of deal. At the end of the day there'll have to be a bit of give and take from each element but we can't really expect Bournemouth to make the lion's share of the effort.

 

I can't believe Bournemouth are getting anything at all. He's been with us since was 12, must be on his fourth or fifth contract since he came. Sell-on fees ought to have some kind of timescale attached to them, there comes a point where the amount of development made at the current club massively outweighs what came before.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted (edited)
I can't believe Bournemouth are getting anything at all. He's been with us since was 12, must be on his fourth or fifth contract since he came. Sell-on fees ought to have some kind of timescale attached to them, there comes a point where the amount of development made at the current club massively outweighs what came before.

 

Indeed, but most of us have seen the paper and there are no time limits or get-out clauses. As they were quoted in various papers as being determined not to budge on it anyway now (although they might have done years back) there's little hope really.

Edited by Window Cleaner
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saint77

saint77

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Posted

the offer is closer to 15 million

 

But if Liverpool have actually offered us a take it or leave it 25 million £ (and AFCB would know how to verify that) then their share is 6.25 million so why would they settle for 3 million when it opens the door to us accepting the offered 25 million and thus depriving them of 6.25 million £. It suits Saints and Liverpool no doubt but it won't suit Bournemouth, we'd have to go to at least 5 million to get their agreement to that sort of deal. At the end of the day there'll have to be a bit of give and take from each element but we can't really expect Bournemouth to make the lion's share of the effort.
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trousers

trousers

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Posted
That was a hypothetical (but rather appropriate) suggestion from myself, not a source. My bad, should have made that clear. The information I had confirmed was it was Lallana (or his camp) who were leaking first to Adam Blackmore, and then Ben Smith complaining about our attitude in not just accepting the Liverpool offer. The other clarification was not behind any 'hatchet job' stories such as nudity/planning permission, as it is not the type of exposure to hold a market value (except a negative down-trend).

 

One discussion my source and I had was the event in which Adam stays. How would he go about it? It would seem impossible the other players would accept him as captain again, he wouldn't have the good will of the crowd, and I know at least one local media figure (not Blackmore) who has been very supportive of him would not be so understanding in his coverage. If he does move, he can't expect any of niceties that Lambert received (that was a reward for being, patient, courteous and professional, the same words applied to Shaw for his handling of the current speculation, I am allowed to say that much). Even if he penned an open letter, hinting that he was pushed or it's not his fault, the fans would know it for a lie, and the board would not print it!

 

As I've said before, it's truly bizarre that he was the one to break cover, as a widespread assumption was that the club was simply weak or making a false economy out of player sales. In my own opinion, I can only imagine he thought he would be given a days grace to complete his move to Liverpool, then fly out on his own. But that seems far fetched to say the least!

 

On the good news front, I'm told the club are "ahead of schedule" in their manager search, and may even announce before the world cup opener on the 12th, if everything continues to run smooth. Otherwise, the appointment will be ideally announced in the "aftermath of a non-event game and the build up of an unattractive fixture" to ensure maximum coverage. And no, I haven't been told the names. :x

 

Cheers for the update

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Really, so the 25 million take it or leave in the papers is in fact total bolloaks ? that makes more sense then. How do you know this and journalists don't ?

 

The cash element appears to be c£15m with rest made up in add-ons which are highly unlikely to ever materialise.

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buctootim

buctootim

Posted
Posted
Really? Can I see that for myself somewhere or is it just the enlightened few who know that ?

 

Does being obtuse give you some kind of thrill? Its all speculation. If you want to pretend that the speculated £25m figure you choose to believe in is 'fact' and the speculated lower £15m plus add ons is made up rubbish thats fine.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted

 

 

So the initial offer (according to Liverpool anyway) was about 17/18 million plus add ons and now it's probably 18/19 million plus even more add ons. Don't see 15 million mentioned anywhere as a base figure.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Do Liverpool have a problem with UEFA FFP? I think they had £50m debts last year. Perhaps they can't spend as freely as we'd like.

 

No they made a loss of 50 million in 2012/13, their debts exceed that by far. However as the sanction is only a smack on the wrist unless you actual owe money to the taxman (like Parma-kicked out for 300K€ replaced by Torino) I doubt that they're particularly worried about it; PSG certainly aren't they're just spending even more. UEFA can only limit you for your European campaign, nothing else, so you get to play in Europe with a squad of 21 instead of 25 and a fine, most of which is only payable if you're naughty again, I doubt they're really worried.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
I wonder if the add ons are not subject to the 25% and so we may accept a lower fee but the add ons come later and not having the deduction

 

No doubt we'd have to hand over 25% of them when and if we get them. They'd have their lawyers on it in a flash, we could try to buy our way out of them with a unique sum if the adds-on are reasonable but if they're unlikely ever to arrive then best leave it be.

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OldNick

OldNick

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Posted
No doubt we'd have to hand over 25% of them when and if we get them. They'd have their lawyers on it in a flash, we could try to buy our way out of them with a unique sum if the adds-on are reasonable but if they're unlikely ever to arrive then best leave it be.
it would depend on the wording of the contract. Surely if it says they are to get 25% of a future transfer fee, then thats all they will get, the add ons are extras. It must be like the image rights players use to avoid tax
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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted (edited)
it would depend on the wording of the contract. Surely if it says they are to get 25% of a future transfer fee, then thats all they will get, the add ons are extras. It must be like the image rights players use to avoid tax

 

 

No doubt there will eventually be much wrangling by battalions of legal men over it, we'll have it sussed though because the Lambert transfer will be a precursor, just don't see Bournemouth giving up easily over a penny they think they're due that's all.

I believe they even went as far as putting a photo of the original agreement on their twitter towards the end of april with a promise not to budge an iota..

 

Here's the doc, make whatever of it you will.

 

http://www.veooz.com/photos/HHAOnh5.html

Edited by Window Cleaner
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Ken Tone

Ken Tone

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Posted
No doubt there will eventually be much wrangling by battalions of legal men over it, we'll have it sussed though because the Lambert transfer will be a precursor, just don't see Bournemouth giving up easily over a penny they think they're due that's all.

I believe they even went as far as putting a photo of the original agreement on their twitter towards the end of april with a promise not to budge an iota..

 

Here's the doc, make whatever of it you will.

 

http://www.veooz.com/photos/HHAOnh5.html

 

Yes but if Liverpool say to them, "agree to say £3 million as a once and for all payment to write off the contract, or get nothing , because we aren't going to budge over £25 million, and even that has conditions" ... So it's £3 million now or nothing.... Then I can see Bournemouth taking that over a vague hope of 25% of some unknown fee in a few years time when Adam's contract runs down.

 

If Blackmore is right and we've said to Liverpool we want to clear £20 million, then the deal could go ahead on that sort of basis.

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted
Yes but if Liverpool say to them, "agree to say £3 million as a once and for all payment to write off the contract, or get nothing , because we aren't going to budge over £25 million, and even that has conditions" ... So it's £3 million now or nothing.... Then I can see Bournemouth taking that over a vague hope of 25% of some unknown fee in a few years time when Adam's contract runs down.

 

If Blackmore is right and we've said to Liverpool we want to clear £20 million, then the deal could go ahead on that sort of basis.

 

 

But if you believe what is shown in other posts on ths thread 20 million outright isn't on offer anyway, it's apparently (or so we're told) 15 to 18 million now and the rest in add ons which may or may not be realisable. If we want a clear 20 million now

then Liverpool still have some way to go on their outright offer let alone convince Bournemouth to take less for their share..

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derry

derry

Posted
Posted

What I didn't realise was one of the main reasons for players not wanting to ask for a transfer is that when they sign contracts the signing on fee is paid in instalments each year. Lallana has 3 payments left and Shaw 4. If they don't ask for a transfer they receive the balance outstanding before leaving. If they hand in a transfer request they lose this plus bonuses etc.

 

In my view we shouldn't negotiate with clubs like LFC and MU who are attempting to take players we would rather keep until the player has put in a written transfer request. We can always say no.

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Weston Super Saint

Weston Super Saint

Posted
Posted
it would depend on the wording of the contract. Surely if it says they are to get 25% of a future transfer fee, then thats all they will get, the add ons are extras. It must be like the image rights players use to avoid tax

 

Horrendous idea.

 

Sadly, these kind of tactics would make us no better than our inbred cousins down the road.

 

We signed the contract, we have to honour it!

 

However, doesn't stop us demanding more from the scousers to ensure WE get an amount we are happy with ;)

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Golac's Cunning Stunts

Golac's Cunning Stunts

Posted
Posted
Horrendous idea.

 

Sadly, these kind of tactics would make us no better than our inbred cousins down the road.

 

We signed the contract, we have to honour it!

 

However, doesn't stop us demanding more from the scousers to ensure WE get an amount we are happy with ;)

 

Saints should do everything they can to avoid paying Bournemouth a penny. Don't see what the big fuss is over this.

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max_saints

max_saints

Posted
Posted

 

I don't understand reports like this. it's almost like they're doing us a favor by giving us business. if that Serb is as good, younger and at a price they favor then go ahead and sign him up then. no need for courtesies, we will keep our player. thank you very much. it's not like we're desperate to sell him

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doddisalegend

doddisalegend

Posted
Posted
I don't understand reports like this. it's almost like they're doing us a favor by giving us business. if that Serb is as good, younger and at a price they favor then go ahead and sign him up then. no need for courtesies, we will keep our player. thank you very much. it's not like we're desperate to sell him

 

 

Quite this line is good Kop boss Brendan Rodgers is worried that Southampton are pricing attacking midfielder Lallana out of a move to Merseyside. I think that may be kind of the point Brendan.......

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Window Cleaner

Window Cleaner

Posted
Posted

 

Not the same type of player though, could mean they're willing to experiment with what they've got after acquiring Emre and will tell us to p*ss off. So much the better for us, unless of course you've been turned against Lallana by his antics. Then again it could be just a warning shot across the bows for us and they're telling us not to tart them about any more. Who knows what it might mean.

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dubai_phil

dubai_phil

Posted
Posted

Seriosuly starting to believe that the reason Liverpool are in such a rush is because they HAVE agreed a mega-bucks deal for Suarez.

 

We've argued the same point on other threads - they come in for AL & Lambert with take it or leave it offers now, knowing full well that "when" Suarez leaves for 70 or 80 million clubs like us would be insisting on 40Mil from them in cash for AL.

 

The furore is bad enough now about AL "pushing" to get out, Christ imagine the row IF the Scousers pocket 70 or 80 mil in 3 or 4 weeks time after the WC.

 

Think we should play hardball and watch

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Wes Tender

Wes Tender

Posted
Posted

It's all starting to fall apart for Liverpool, isn't it? They huff and puff over Lallana, desperate to get him at a knock down price, threatening to have him stay with us if we don't cave in over their final offer. Somehow they fail to recognise that our target valuation of him is designed to either gain a silly price, or hack them off so that they withdraw. Now they are getting desperate because if they cannot get us to hurry up, they risk losing another alternative target to somebody else. And in the meantime, another target of theirs is now being courted by those bastards Spurs. They had again sought to offer less than Moreno's club wanted for him and Spurs are offering a player and the loan of Soldado plus money, which brings the deal closer to what Seville want for him.

 

Poor old Liverpool. You do have to feel sorry for the tight-fisted scouse gits.

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