alpine_saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 For the very first time, now the boot is on our foot, I can understand the argument that it is difficult to secure new players before the WC. Seriously, all the rumours about Adam, Luke, Rickie, Dejan and even maybe Morgan if he somehow survives the cut, can be put to bed; why would SFC accept fees now knowing the player's value may rise by a significant percentage if they play well in the WC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 would be stupid to sell before WC imo. Not only could the players value rise but if Ralph thinks the commercial side is so important it will be good for the club to actually be seen on players bio during the WC. Sell Shaw before WC and the only thing the world will see is that he is a Manchester United player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Why haven't we signed anyone yet FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 would be stupid to sell before WC imo. Not only could the players value rise but if Ralph thinks the commercial side is so important it will be good for the club to actually be seen on players bio during the WC. Sell Shaw before WC and the only thing the world will see is that he is a Manchester United player... Yep, despite the fact he will have never played for them. I see that sort of ignorance all the time over here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Very little is going to happen until the end of the cup. Selling clubs will wait in case their prized assets increase in value, buying clubs will be paranoid about blowing their stack too early and missing the stars that inevitably emerge during the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneysaint17 Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Call me pessimistic, but are the players that Saints are looking to sign going to be playing in the World Cup? Probably not. It could all look fantastic at the end of Brazil - some decent replacements, Shaw and Lallana playing for England etc. Might not stay that way for long after it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 would be stupid to sell before WC imo. Not only could the players value rise but if Ralph thinks the commercial side is so important it will be good for the club to actually be seen on players bio during the WC. Sell Shaw before WC and the only thing the world will see is that he is a Manchester United player... Totally agree. It's a no brainer that no one should be for sale prior to the WC and will be a indicator to the new boards competence if players leave before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Do clubs not have to comply with the transfer window regulations anymore then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggles31 Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Do clubs not have to comply with the transfer window regulations anymore then? Any club selling a player should do it on their terms and to sell before the WC would indicate weakness to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Do clubs not have to comply with the transfer window regulations anymore then? Transfer windows just regulate when players can start playing in their new club, deals can always be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 would be stupid to sell before WC imo. Not only could the players value rise but if Ralph thinks the commercial side is so important it will be good for the club to actually be seen on players bio during the WC. Sell Shaw before WC and the only thing the world will see is that he is a Manchester United player... A) All it takes is one injury and suddenly Shaw could be lighting up the world cup stage and his value rockets higher. B) Sure fire way to anger the fans by not letting them enjoy seeing a Saints player going to the world Cup because everyone will talk about him as a man U one. C) Don't think we should be selling him anyway, especially to a club that aint even in the champions league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 We need to get our players in before selling anyone. If we get big money for Adam and Shaw, the price will go up on any players we look to bring in. Although spurs bought badly last summer their timing was spot on. They got the players in and then sold Bale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Its a difficult one to play, for both the buying and selling clubs really. A player worth £27M now (reportedly) could be worth £30/35M+ after the world cup if he has a storming Tournament... meaning a theoretical loss of £3-£8M However, if he was to get an injury he could be out for >6 months or longer... I bet there will be at least 2/3 players that this happens to during the tournament... meaning a wasted (for the time being) £27M if bought.... or £27M lost revenue for the selling club if not sold prior to the WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 We need to get our players in before selling anyone. If we get big money for Adam and Shaw, the price will go up on any players we look to bring in. Although spurs bought badly last summer their timing was spot on. They got the players in and then sold Bale. Yep, values do go up if agents know we have a few bob in the back bin. I wonder who from the board will conduct the transfer negotiations for players? Do they have the hard nose to battle it out defending mickey taking bids for our lads and putting the hammer onto clubs we want players from? Let's hope they are up to the task. One thing I suspect is that LR and MP would have identified the players they want to supplement the squad as it stands as well as contingency plans for squad reinforcement should we sell any players. It will be an interesting summer and I hope the general pessimism surrounding players leaving is tempered with some good news prior to the start of next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Tbh if we sell before World Cup it will be stupid. The value could be much more afterwards. To be honest this is all very depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 If we sell before the WC, it indicates genuine weakness or stupidity in our board, or something much, much worse - that the "financial difficulties" are more than being made out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 If Poch leaves and Adam and Luke get sold I'm cancelling my season ticket and shall just cherry pick games next season ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Or you have budgeted already for a certain amount of transfer money in (i.e from Shaw) so you can begin working on getting your own transfer targets in during the summer. Players like say Ings, Marshall, Cresswell, Redmond etc wont be at the WC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Or you have budgeted already for a certain amount of transfer money in (i.e from Shaw) so you can begin working on getting your own transfer targets in during the summer. Players like say Ings, Marshall, Cresswell, Redmond etc wont be at the WC With the exception of Marshall, you're talking about Championship players. Hopefully we can aim a bit higher than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewildered Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 It will be a disappointment for us if Shaw and Lallana are indeed sold as seems likely, however if (big IF IMO) the combined fees of those two, plus hopefully Osvaldo is taken and reinvested in the squad wisely the end result could be a stronger squad overall. In terms of what we need Real competition for Boruc First choice LB A physically commanding CB who has that extra power and pace Lovren/Fonte don't have. One starting CF with pace and another as backup A Lallana replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 It will be a disappointment for us if Shaw and Lallana are indeed sold as seems likely, however if (big IF IMO) the combined fees of those two, plus hopefully Osvaldo is taken and reinvested in the squad wisely the end result could be a stronger squad overall. In terms of what we need Real competition for Boruc First choice LB A physically commanding CB who has that extra power and pace Lovren/Fonte don't have. One starting CF with pace and another as backup A Lallana replacement. Understand your logic but players of Lallana's calibre don't grow on trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewildered Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Understand your logic but players of Lallana's calibre don't grow on trees. I realise that, maybe I should have been clearer and explained that I just meant a player with similar attributes even though they will likely not be of the same quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 It will be a disappointment for us if Shaw and Lallana are indeed sold as seems likely, however if (big IF IMO) the combined fees of those two, plus hopefully Osvaldo is taken and reinvested in the squad wisely the end result could be a stronger squad overall. In terms of what we need Real competition for Boruc First choice LB A physically commanding CB who has that extra power and pace Lovren/Fonte don't have. One starting CF with pace and another as backup A Lallana replacement. Rubbish. I'm sick of seeing people say "that's a lot of money, take it". You 100% do not become a better team for selling your best players. Gareth Bale proves that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewildered Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Rubbish. I'm sick of seeing people say "that's a lot of money, take it". You 100% do not become a better team for selling your best players. Gareth Bale proves that. So, you still believe the sale of Shaw and Lallana is not on the cards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 So, you still believe the sale of Shaw and Lallana is not on the cards? Where have I said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Rubbish. I'm sick of seeing people say "that's a lot of money, take it". You 100% do not become a better team for selling your best players. Gareth Bale proves that. You 100% might do. Saints are short in key areas across the team. We need at least one more goal scorer, probably two; another creative player even if Lallana stays and a quality goalie. Price and value are two different things, price changes with the wind. 'Flop' Bale was available for a reported £3m three years ago. Selling for £30m is good business if you use the proceeds well, bad mistake if you dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefuriousb Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Deals may be agreed. Player registration remains with the selling club until 1 July, to my knowledge. They therefore remain Southampton players at the world cup. Also, anyone with a modicum of understanding would know which team they earned their call up playing for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 would be stupid to sell before WC imo. Not only could the players value rise but if Ralph thinks the commercial side is so important it will be good for the club to actually be seen on players bio during the WC. Sell Shaw before WC and the only thing the world will see is that he is a Manchester United player... TBH, all the world will see is a future player rather than a Saints player. After a long season, could be just as good to cash in now before injury than having a good WC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewildered Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Where have I said that? You can't talk of not liking it when people say "That's a lot of money, we should take it." (which was putting words in my mouth BTW), when the people who look to have come to that conclusion is the Southampton FC board. All we as fans can do is wonder what will be done with the money we will receive and my post was merely me offering an opinion on how I would reinvest the money back into the squad. Some tetchy people around this morning.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Cant believe some of the "Lets bend over for the Big Club and take it from behind" posts I am reading. Thats why SFC will never make it to the next level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Cant believe some of the "Lets bend over for the Big Club and take it from behind" posts I am reading. Thats why SFC will never make it to the next level. That's right. The reason saint won't make it to the next level is because of the posts on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 That's right. The reason saint won't make it to the next level is because of the posts on here Christ, what a retarded comment. The attitude is the reason, especially if it is shared at the club. Not the posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Christ, what a retarded comment. The attitude is the reason, especially if it is shared at the club. Not the posts. What on earth does the attitude of a poster on a messageboard have to do with the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Rubbish. I'm sick of seeing people say "that's a lot of money, take it". You 100% do not become a better team for selling your best players. Gareth Bale proves that. I would agree, but I don't think spurs were in a position to keep him. Perhaps they could have gone to the next stage of forcing a player to hand in a transfer request but those days are long gone. Better to keep on the good side of players while negotiating a good deal. I think we will be in the same position with a few of our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 What on earth does the attitude of a poster on a messageboard have to do with the club? Deary me. It gets worse. And the likes of Turkish, Barry and Glasgow get accused of WUMing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 You can't talk of not liking it when people say "That's a lot of money, we should take it." (which was putting words in my mouth BTW), when the people who look to have come to that conclusion is the Southampton FC board. All we as fans can do is wonder what will be done with the money we will receive and my post was merely me offering an opinion on how I would reinvest the money back into the squad. Some tetchy people around this morning.... I didn't say you specifically said that, but plenty of people have. It's nonsense. Also, are you saying that I can't say I dislike a decision made by the board? I accept it does look likely we will lose players this summer. I hate it, of course I do. I don't care how much money we get, we are not going to get players to replace Shaw or Lallana to the same level they are at. Hence we will be a worse team. Same as Man Utd when they got £80m for Ronaldo, Spurs when they sold Modric, Bale. Arsenal when they sold Fabregas, RVP etc. Selling your best players makes you a worse team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Deary me. It gets worse. And the likes of Turkish, Barry and Glasgow get accused of WUMing..... Indeed. You are the worst of them all. Notice you didn't answer the question and went off on some rant as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 12 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Indeed. You are the worst of them all. Notice you didn't answer the question and went off on some rant as usual. Sorry, not going to indulge you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 (edited) If you MAKE a final squad for your country it is arguable that the greatest transfer value that the owner club may achieve for you, and indeed for the vast majority of the players attending WC, will be BEFORE they even kick a ball. There can be only one winner and 30 odd losers. a small bunch of reputations enhanced, a bigger bunch no change and a larger bunch decreased. Being PICKED for the Costa Rica squad will be the highlight of your career for example because afterwards the 95% certainty is you will return to virtual anonymity. Extreme example but you know what i mean. If i asked the knowledgeable saints fans on this site if they could even name Germany or Holland's midfield and defence I doubt many could... Of course if Luke Shaw or Adz play and score a hat-trick against Italy it's a different matter but it is going to be very hard for them to get into the first team let alone do anything but keep up ~ and just getting out of the group should be regarded as a good result for England such is the high level out there with the heat and the pressure etc. The reality is that neither of them or Rickie (if selected) are even guaranteed to kick a ball and it would not be a major surprise if our Southampton players accumulate zero or very limited playing time out there. There is the other way of looking at it as well though : the owner might, in doing her due diligence in assessing the situation, ask herself this question : IF England pick our players, they don't play but are knocked out early ( ie we are shown up as not very good) what would it say+do about the Saints players who could not even get on the pitch- and their transfer value? £50million for Adz and Luke might become a lot less, perhaps. So it could quite literally be a £10million question looked at in that way. Hopefully she understands though that the EPL is a special case and that we have got EPL proven top talents whatever happens at the WC. That suggests strongly to me that whatever England and our boys do in the WC we will still be able to get big bucks from Man utd and Liverpool afterwards. Indeed if anything there is upwards potential as Adz might just score a few or Luke release a left foot thunderbolt.. so theres no pressure to sell ahead of the vfinals really unless its to generate the funds to purchase...and that's what i'm most worried about. The other question she would ask (with RK and LR) is what and who do we spend the £50m on - and do they bring guaranteed ability, continuity and propagation of club status as symbols of the Southampton Way like Mopo Adz, Rickie and Luke do if they stay? And how much is losing that going to cost versus the risks of recruiting new players and a new manager? If we release key players will the manager want to go as well? We might make £50m alright, we might lose Mopo alright, we might spend £40m on some new players and manager and coaches alright...but any guarantee they will do the biz? There no guarantees in football but if you keep the current team that represents overall the best chance we have of replicating this year and improving on it ~ in my opinion. And that means plenty £££ needs to be spent on additions. It needs to be am ambitious "project" though....do KL and RK know what an ambitous project is when viewed through the eyes of our current squad and manager though ....I'm not so sure on that.. Edited 12 May, 2014 by Giordano sp, additional sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 If we sell either of Lallana or Shaw before the WC it sends big signals: 1. Southampton are small time. 2. Southampton have peaked. 3. Southampton have no more ambition. 4. Southampton are a feeder club. Sell after the WC then: 1. Southampton have 3 players in WC finals. 2. Grow the clubs reputation with viewers. 3. Grow the clubs reputation with young players. 4. Grow the "Southampton Way" brand. We can replace them, but we really need to do better in marketing ourselves and this is the biggest chance we are going to get on an international stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 If we sell either of Lallana or Shaw before the WC it sends big signals: 1. Southampton are small time. 2. Southampton have peaked. 3. Southampton have no more ambition. 4. Southampton are a feeder club. Sell after the WC then: 1. Southampton have 3 players in WC finals. 2. Grow the clubs reputation with viewers. 3. Grow the clubs reputation with young players. 4. Grow the "Southampton Way" brand. We can replace them, but we really need to do better in marketing ourselves and this is the biggest chance we are going to get on an international stage. With Ralph at the helm, Veho on board and three Southampton Saints playing in the All England team we are on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 It would be a bonkers decision to sell Shaw or Lallana before the World Cup, their value can only increase. I refuse to believe anyone at SFC would be that dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Deals may be agreed. Player registration remains with the selling club until 1 July, to my knowledge. They therefore remain Southampton players at the world cup. Also, anyone with a modicum of understanding would know which team they earned their call up playing for. That's nonsense. When United signed Hernandez they were all talking about how united had bought and what a good deal it was considering how well he was playing him not whatever mexican club he came from. Unless we like the sensation of being repeatedly shafted we should tell them to **** off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 Understand your logic but players of Lallana's calibre don't grow on trees. We already have one. He just needs to get fully fit and able to last more than 60 minutes once a month. Ramirez. And ducks. An alternate theory is that we HAVE identified the players we want to bring in to strengthen the squad. We have decided WE want to buy them NOW and that the money we will pay out now will be less than later when the WC has ended. Also, doing the deals to sell AL & Shaw now mean the clubs we are buying from know the amount we will pay. Ings now for 7mil or we hold on and get more for AL and so Burnley hold out for 12 mil later because they know we are loaded? Just looking to try and find some idea of in what Universe selling them BEFORE the WC could have any logic to it all. Not sure even this works tbh. Not saying that is the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 12 May, 2014 Share Posted 12 May, 2014 It would be a bonkers decision to sell Shaw or Lallana before the World Cup, their value can only increase. I refuse to believe anyone at SFC would be that dumb. Totally agree, the players are under long contracts and if we sell them a) It's on our terms and b) It might be because the deal was too staggering to turn and/or we got players in part-ex who are our transfer targets e.g. we've been linked with the Spanish left-back Liverpool bought from Newcastle. This is where Reed needs to control all communications on transfers and reinforce that all dealings, if there are any, will be on SFC's terms only. If it means we ban Ashton and White from SMS that's fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Its a difficult one to play, for both the buying and selling clubs really. A player worth £27M now (reportedly) could be worth £30/35M+ after the world cup if he has a storming Tournament... meaning a theoretical loss of £3-£8M However, if he was to get an injury he could be out for >6 months or longer... I bet there will be at least 2/3 players that this happens to during the tournament... meaning a wasted (for the time being) £27M if bought.... or £27M lost revenue for the selling club if not sold prior to the WC. Finally some one sees the way I see it. Yes, a player's value could increase at the world cup but it could also fall due to injury or apathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 13 May, 2014 We already have one. He just needs to get fully fit and able to last more than 60 minutes once a month. Ramirez. Cant believe I missed this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 If we sell either of Lallana or Shaw before the WC it sends big signals: 1. Southampton are small time. 2. Southampton have peaked. 3. Southampton have no more ambition. 4. Southampton are a feeder club. Sell after the WC then: 1. Southampton have 3 players in WC finals. 2. Grow the clubs reputation with viewers. 3. Grow the clubs reputation with young players. 4. Grow the "Southampton Way" brand. We can replace them, but we really need to do better in marketing ourselves and this is the biggest chance we are going to get on an international stage. Good points- but we have got more than three players at the World Cup - Uruguay, Italy, Japan and Croatia all will have a Southampton player. Its not inconceivable that Southampton have the most players in England's entire group as there are five in total just there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 13 May, 2014 Share Posted 13 May, 2014 Yep, despite the fact he will have never played for them. I see that sort of ignorance all the time over here I remember that Walcott signed for Arsenal from us, never played a senior game for Arsenal, but was then selected for the World Cup squad. Obviously Arsenal owned him, but we got little credit for him having been picked etc, and it was mainly just that it was an Arsenal player appearing (or not as the case was) for England. And that was just in England - I can imagine around the world he would be known as an Arsenal player with no mention of Saints at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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