Appy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 He did, I forget about that one, that is the only one though. I've always believed stats don't tell the whole story. Shaw is testament to that, but some on here love them. You can guarantee that numerous players will be written off or hyped up on here due to their stats before the window shuts. Pretty sure Ramirez's little flick before it got to Puncheon took the assist off Shaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 This is a concern of mine also. Team of mercenaries? Maybe players will join us because they can see we are a progressive club and want to be a part of that? Is Lovren a mecenary? Borac? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Ha. Missing: Alpine Saints. Last seen gorging on Toblerone and driving to Dundee in bare feet. Beat you to it in post #1359 Great minds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Team of mercenaries? Maybe players will join us because they can see we are a progressive club and want to be a part of that? Is Lovren a mecenary? Borac? Two 'imports' who have been brought into a stable dressing room of players, many of whom have a bond from our L1 days. Rip the heart out of that and it is easy for it to become a loose collection of individuals,with their ££ the main motivation, rather than a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
student Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Guardian £27m Mail/Sky/Telegraph £30m Express/Mirror/Sun £33m Scholes/Indy £34m Star £36m ie they don't know what the agreement is for. Take into account who briefed them. Highest will be briefed by southampton and probably include all the possible clauses and assume they will be activated. The lowest will be briefed by united, they have strong ties with the guardian, and will not include the clauses. The middle ones will include the upfront fee plus the clauses which will be activated and maybe mention the ones which might be. The main fee was agreed in principle a long time ago, hence why united bid 27m and thats what was ultimately accepted, it was just how clauses activate etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Hey Jose . I was the first person to tell everyone a week before shaw got his debut that he would be playing and he would be class I was absolutely slaughtered for this saying he wasn't good enough. To young, he would start , I was mad , A few said if your good enough your old enough. The rest slated me for suggesting such things. Sure enough he was picked at everyone's surprise, had his debut and was class Strange that, because (excluding a sub appearance in the FA Cup in Jan 2012) his full debut was up at Stevenage, and he was crap defensively in it. To the extent that some stories about how he was "ill" circulated a few days after. Admittedly this was alongside Seaborne, Richardson at CB and Butterfield at RB, but he looked alright going forward and all over the place with his decision-making at the back. Certainly not "class" any time around his debut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Take into account who briefed them. Highest will be briefed by southampton and probably include all the possible clauses and assume they will be activated. The lowest will be briefed by united, they have strong ties with the guardian, and will not include the clauses. The middle ones will include the upfront fee plus the clauses which will be activated and maybe mention the ones which might be. The main fee was agreed in principle a long time ago, hence why united bid 27m and thats what was ultimately accepted, it was just how clauses activate etc Yes, all very nice. Now that the Shaw deal is done would you kindly depart from the forum and take your United love elsewhere? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giordano Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 From contact who works at club (no reason to disbelieve) £34m upfront Could rise to £40m+ with add-ons (not ITK but presume its after league apps, England apps, League titles etc) 30% of any profit United make on selling him on Sad to see him go and wish him all the best but that is one hell of a deal for an 18 year old A. I personally don't think that's true. I'm not ITK but I do know how to analyze stuff like this accurately sometimes. Anything leaked out of SMS about the Shaw fee is not going to err on the side of "too little" because there would be a public outcry from saints fans. Putting out big numbers is the best antidote for upset saints fans to quickly "get over" losing Luke. The Board, after a slow and frankly sub standard amateurish start, are gradually getting their black ops team sorted to massage fan sentiment in the right way. Does not mean they are any better at their job or are making better decisions though. Just that the PR is being executed a bit cuter. The perception and reality exercise is being managed better. B. Secondly, a word of warning. Spurs sold Gareth Bale for a trillion pounds and bought a job lot of ultimately second grade players who got their manager sacked twice and achieved the sum total of f-all last year. So, IF we got a gazillion pounds for Luke but bought similar dross then that would not be a great surprise. It happens more than the other way around. For every big sale that was wisely invested (and that's a loose term) there's plenty examples to the contrary. Indeed Southampton have got a number of great ones in our history. Incidentally. The Board need to up their game. I like RK as a bloke but I suspect he is not the right man in the right place at the right time for us. I would not be surprised if he left, and soon, to be replaced by a more seasoned EPl operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Take into account who briefed them. Highest will be briefed by southampton and probably include all the possible clauses and assume they will be activated. The lowest will be briefed by united, they have strong ties with the guardian, and will not include the clauses. The middle ones will include the upfront fee plus the clauses which will be activated and maybe mention the ones which might be. The main fee was agreed in principle a long time ago, hence why united bid 27m and thats what was ultimately accepted, it was just how clauses activate etc That's a maybe. I do find this strange though...... Cheap shot Far too often, good English prospects are put out on loan to Championship clubs, or elsewhere, at the expense of very average imports. The proposed £34m transfer for the 18-year-old Luke Shaw to Manchester United is another example of something which has a bad long-term impact. Clubs are priced out of this market which is why they go abroad for cheap options - they’re not better players. For a left-back to be worth £34m shows how silly the game has gone. For that money I want a centre-forward who’s going to score 30 goals a season. http://blog.paddypower.com/2014/06/26/paul-scholes-exclusive-why-premier-league-clubs-that-buy-average-foreign-players-are-killing-englands-world-cup-dreams/?AFF_ID=16562 Why would Scholes, who I presume still is ITK about what goes on at Man U write this very specific figure? Your info, well, you come across as having an agenda so I take that into account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toomer Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 The lads head was turned as soon as the UTD connection came out and I don't think anything could have been said or done to get him to stay with the money UTD are going to pay him, lets hope we have got the best deal we can bank the money and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Ah, Student seems to be banned now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Codger Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 He did, I forget about that one, that is the only one though. I've always believed stats don't tell the whole story. Shaw is testament to that, but some on here love them. You can guarantee that numerous players will be written off or hyped up on here due to their stats before the window shuts. Shaw also made the cross for Fonte to score with a header in the home game against Arsenal. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wslweMN17E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Ah, Student seems to be banned now! Interesting. Looking back at his posts, he seems to have been fairly accurate about Shaw all along. And then I found this one: Devils advocate, but if mopo goes and you sell lambert and shaw for somewhere between 30-40m for the pair then that's a pretty decent transfer kitty to tempt a new manager with and persuade the team that you can still compete. Luckily, due to your points total, if it all falls apart a bit this season then you should have until September to get the club back together and still be ok. On the Cortese leaving thread, posted back in January... Probably just coincidence, but it'll get some people going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Interesting. Looking back at his posts, he seems to have been fairly accurate about Shaw all along. And then I found this one: On the Cortese leaving thread, posted back in January... Probably just coincidence, but it'll get some people going. Alex Crook in disguise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeShmoe Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 In MLT's defense I have spoken to 3 our coaching staff, one of which has now left. They told me all about some of our best youth players, which ones the big clubs know about, which ones they dont and who the next batch of stars coming through were. We talked a lot about MT and unfortunately for you but fortunately for Saints, you are very wide of the mark with your comments I imagine Josh Sims is in that discussion as from what i've been told the top 4 are already keeping close tabs on him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 It does make me laugh how when we got £12m for AOC everyone said it was brilliant negotating to get that much for a kid and just shows how we wont be shoved around by big clubs, yet when we get a world record fee from one of the worlds biggest clubs for a player in his postion we've caved in and it wasn't a good deal because in 10 years time he'll definitely be worth £500m and we should have kept him. so true £27m is a ton of money for a teenager/ anything above is a bonus. He will be carp next season now that he has just discovered playboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 27 June, 2014 Author Share Posted 27 June, 2014 How long ago was it that Shaw accidently tweeted the United media office Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Alex Crook in disguise? lol. There was also this post on a Shaw thread, which may explain it all: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?43109-Shaw-Injured&p=1618963#post1618963 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 so true £27m is a ton of money for a teenager/ anything above is a bonus. He will be carp next season now that he has just discovered playboy 27 million is a great sale, as long as no one tries to make me believe that we got far more I have absolutely no problem with it at all. Lovren next,Osvaldo out on loan again, maybe Gaston don't really know, then Morgan and that will be about it for this summer on the outs front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 i will let the dumb board have this one cos it seems a lot of dollar, but if they go on to sell Lallana or Lovren or Morgan or any of my other favourite bros i will be ANGAR. I have been v.patient on this, I already let them sell lambart & now I'm letting them sell shaw. They should not take advantage of my good nature like this. This is Formal Warning + Open Letter to Dumb Board. They have been put on Notice. They would be wise to Take Heed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Mods/admin - any reason that Student was banned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Mods/admin - any reason that Student was banned? I feel like student was originally ban over a week ago for a) being not a Saints fan and b) posting lies that Shaw was going to be transfer to Man Utd. Prob chalet forgot to make the ban a permanent ban, he does this quite often it usually takes two tries to make it stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Duncan have you watched the academy teams this year? I have and you would have seen why they were released. No I confess I haven't but weren't they sacked for non-footballing reasons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Sell one player who quite clearly doesnt want to be here for £30M and replace him with 3 people who do want to be here at £10M a piece What's not to understand there? You make it sound so easy. Good proven players at £10m apiece do not grow on trees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom & Gerry Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Two 'imports' who have been brought into a stable dressing room of players, many of whom have a bond from our L1 days. Rip the heart out of that and it is easy for it to become a loose collection of individuals,with their ££ the main motivation, rather than a team. Like the 1976 cup winning team you mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Mods/admin - any reason that Student was banned? Knowing too much I expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Those cheeky chaps at Man U didn't miss a trick with the medical did they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourne Valley Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Well said Badger - you cant replace a team that has bonded, a team that have grown up together (Shaw played with Chambers, Reed and Ward Prose for the under 11's) and a team that the players have close ties to with a wadge of cash and mercenaries. It would be great if a player such as Shaw (and the club) told Man Utd to F O, state that he is happy to carry on his time with Saints and help the club who got him to where he is now to take the next step up - Dream On!! Great example of loyalty. And before anyone says the same happened with Walcott, Bale and the Ox, we weren't sitting pretty in the Prem when they left!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Oh joy, lets get rid of this young, home grown team we've steadily built up for 5 years and become just another prem team of mercenaries. I think the fact that so many of them seem to be agitating for a move away, suggests that the team that spent 5 years bonding was basically full of mercenaries anyway, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Once again we seem to have some kind of black or white portrayal of things... either our Academy players stay and we keep the bond and morale that has stayed with us since we were in League 1... or we're a team of mercenaries who play for nothing other than their pay and the bond is gone completely and forever. Erm, no. Funnily enough, there is a big grey area in the middle of that too. It's a balancing act for sure, and it can go wrong. But clearly if you get the right people in, with the right attitude and a desire to improve themselves and the team, then there is no reason why new signings can't be brought in and become part of a new bond and gain from the existing morale amongst players who remain. Koeman is key to that of course, but the club as a whole has a mentality about it... you only have to look around the stadium and training ground to see that there is a clear emphasis on the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and that no one person is bigger than than the team. Yes it is disappointing to lose good players, and yes there can be changes within the group, but it doesn't mean it is all going to collapse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Aye - **** loyalty and trying to push on to the next level with the team that brought you up. They could all have given one more season to see what happened. I now don't really care whether we just get mercenaries in or not. Of course I would prefer home grown English, but **** it. If they are going to be off at the first opportunity and 10 moths into a 5 year contract then what's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 I think the fact that so many of them seem to be agitating for a move away, suggests that the team that spent 5 years bonding was basically full of mercenaries anyway, right? Not really they just want to move to the next level, same as everybody else I'd think. We have failed to do that, the top players are entitled to move on, they don't want to be relying on players like Jos and Gazza next season, simple as that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourne Valley Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Perhaps we can have a settled side for another 4 years until the next effing World Cup. I certainly shall not be singing "Matty Targett he's off to ...... wherever the F**K the next one is being played!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 the club as a whole has a mentality about it... you only have to look around the stadium and training ground to see that there is a clear emphasis on the whole being greater than the sum of the parts, and that no one person is bigger than than the team. Spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Perhaps we can have a settled side for another 4 years until the next effing World Cup. I certainly shall not be singing "Matty Targett he's off to ...... wherever the F**K the next one is being played!! It's just football. There are very, very few players that have anywhere near the level of loyalty that we do. Some, like Rickie, come to love a club a huge amount but it still doesn't mean they'll never leave. Unless you get used to that, you'll always be disappointed. But, while those players are here, and they feel like they're both progressing personally and helping the club to progress, then they'll feel loyal to the club and will enjoy their time here. They're not mercenaries (apart from the odd one), they're just human. And it's no different to any company. Some people move jobs purely for the money, some move because they don't feel part of a good set-up, some move for one reason and then realise the grass isn't always greener, some wonder why they didn't move earlier, some move because of someone they know, some leave because of the people, and so on and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verlaine1979 Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Not really they just want to move to the next level, same as everybody else I'd think. We have failed to do that, the top players are entitled to move on, they don't want to be relying on players like Jos and Gazza next season, simple as that.. The choice of the word 'mercenaries' wasn't mine, and isn't how I'd choose to describe our players. However, I do think that to imagine that the team had some unusual degree of togetherness over the past few years is probably naive. Of course the players will have taken pride in the achievement of moving up through the leagues and having a good post-survival premier league season, however, I imagine they'll feel just as engaged by contesting the league title, or performing well in Europe at the clubs they move on to. They are basically employees, and like most employees, I suspect the oaths of fealty they make to their employer are pretty hollow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Not really they just want to move to the next level, same as everybody else I'd think. We have failed to do that, the top players are entitled to move on, they don't want to be relying on players like Jos and Gazza next season, simple as that.. The next level being one place higher in the Premier League and still no European football apparently. Oh, silly me, I forgot about the money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 The next level being one place higher in the Premier League and still no European football apparently. Oh, silly me, I forgot about the money! i think going to man united is about a bit more than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Mods/admin - any reason that Student was banned? Its weird. He obviously wasnt a Saints fan but he posted some accurate stuff and wasnt a WUM. Unfair imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 A couple of points The team bond - they appear to be a close knit bunch, but not so close that some of them want to leave. Loyalty to the team - Like the Loyalty that we have shown to a raft of players that we signed and then discarded when we decided that they weren';t good enough (Hammond, Fox, Barnard, Harding, Thomas, Perry, Wotton, Murty Antonio) - Sometimes you use people /teams as a stepping stone - sometimes you are the stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesfp1 Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Didnt he set up our equaliser away at Chelsea last year for Punch? Gaston flicked it on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redder freak Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Luke's 18. At that age, his parents will be having a huge influence on his career. He was born in London, so I doubt whether they are Saints fans. He's done well for us but he's work in progress. His defending isn't the greatest, but he's a good dribbler going forward. I wonder whether he will end up in midfield or forward, like Gareth Bale. Good luck to him if they want to leave St Mary's. Looking forward already to seeing how Saints play against him next season! Plenty of money in the kitty to get some good replacements. Lets' see what happens next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Sky Sports News now reporting the deal is complete, "in excess of £30m" and five year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Sky say it's done. Five year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 His defending isn't the greatest he is brilliant defender imo. Poor defending is just a thing people always say about wing backs, even when it's balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 he is brilliant defender imo. Poor defending is just a thing people always say about wing backs, even when it's balls Agree. His defending is better than any other left back we have had for ages. He never gets beaten for pace, stops loads of crosses coming into the box, is good in the air and concentrates well. Can barely think of a winger who has got the better of him. IMO his defending is more advanced than his attacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Several more sources say its done, £30m plus add ons. Good bit of business IMO, shame to see him go but he'll be missed and the money is good for RK to build his vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Several more sources say its done, £30m plus add ons. Good bit of business IMO, shame to see him go but he'll be missed and the money is good for RK to build his vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Sky Sports News just ran an interview clip with Jay Rod previewed by "his Southampton teammate Jay Rodriguez is backing him to succeed at United". Entire soundbite clip, verbatim: "For me it's been brilliant playing with him, he's learned a lot, and he's willing to learn, you know? I don't think he realises how good he is, I've said that before and it's... I think it's a good thing that he's a level-headed lad, and he's an unbelievable talent I think". Absolutely no mention of Manchester United from Rodriguez whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowers-sfc Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Manchester United official twitter account is the last person he followed on twitter.. If that's not confirmation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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