Minty Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 You don't think he should be given enough funds to buy 2-3 players regardless? Let's face it, I doubt he's had much say in the matter. I didn't say that. Yes I think he will be given plenty of funds anyway, but with Shaw going he'll have even more. You might be right, he might not have had much say in the matter, but the end result is still the same... the new manager has significantly more money to spend on improving the squad. Given that one of our main problems last season was the quality of back up players when we had injuries etc, I don't think this is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monosaint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 If it's 34Million then a no brainer. RK can buy 3 top quality players for that. I think Saints have struck an amazing deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 If it's 34Million then a no brainer. RK can buy 3 top quality players for that. I think Saints have struck an amazing deal. Agree. Mirror says £33m, Others £27m-£34m. Scholes said £34m was far too much, so let's go with the higher figure. People are going on and on about him being left back for 15 years for Utd. But, while of course you take into account potential, you can't sell a player on what he is going to be doing in 15 years time. People are saying didn't RK ant to keep him. I am sure that he did, but a) the deal seems to have been in place way before he took on the job b) he is not stupid and while loosing a great prospect, he knows how football works and has the funds available to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 I didn't say that. Yes I think he will be given plenty of funds anyway, but with Shaw going he'll have even more. You might be right, he might not have had much say in the matter, but the end result is still the same... the new manager has significantly more money to spend on improving the squad. Given that one of our main problems last season was the quality of back up players when we had injuries etc, I don't think this is a bad thing. We had key positions address this summer, everyone knows that. It's not enough to justify selling our best players IMO, replacing several key players and ensuring we have the required depth will be very difficult. We won't have as good a team next year in all probability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Sell one player who quite clearly doesnt want to be here for £30M and replace him with 3 people who do want to be here at £10M a piece What's not to understand there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 This is kind of my point... no offence to you, but I've heard several lines, some similar, some not, about why they were sacked, but it's impossible to really know what the truth is. No offence taken mate. It's entirely dependant on where the info comes from (and mine came from a pretty damn good source ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 If it's 34Million then a no brainer. RK can buy 3 top quality players for that. I think Saints have struck an amazing deal. I love this line about RK buying 3 top quality players...like he's off around the World with a briefcase stashed with money ready to snap up whoever he wants. RK will not be buying 3 players to replace Shaw, but even if he did they're likely to be of lesser quality to what we had. Or are you saying Luke was only worth £10m and we've mugged Utd?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Picard Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 This is an absolute nonsense yet again Alpine. England always planned to fly from Brazil to Manchester to drop off all the northern based players and staff and then fly south to drop off the southern based players and staff. They haven't rearranged the whole itinerary in a conspiracy to screw over Saints ffs! Anyone know where Adam got off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashby Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 I love this line about RK buying 3 top quality players...like he's off around the World with a briefcase stashed with money ready to snap up whoever he wants. RK will not be buying 3 players to replace Shaw, but even if he did they're likely to be of lesser quality to what we had. Or are you saying Luke was only worth £10m and we've mugged Utd?! We are never going to compete with the top 4 or 5 in the league. They need a world class first eleven to compete for the highest club honours. In this respect Shaw has outgrown us since he is going to be a top quality England full back for the next decade. We have sold him to fund an overall strengthening of the squad. A defence is only as strong as its weakest link and therefore the selling of Shaw might lead to some overall improvement. I am disappointed that Shaw is leaving us. It is a reflection of the money in the modern game. I am a bit concerned that we are immediately looking to replace with cheaper foreign players as I believed Ralph when he said that having a core England team was one of our USPs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 I love this line about RK buying 3 top quality players...like he's off around the World with a briefcase stashed with money ready to snap up whoever he wants. RK will not be buying 3 players to replace Shaw, but even if he did they're likely to be of lesser quality to what we had. Or are you saying Luke was only worth £10m and we've mugged Utd?! Of course were not going to buy 3 players to directly replace Shaw at LB, but it is quite conceivable to think that we will be able to bring in 3 good quality players at £10M apiece. What did Lovren cost. What did Wanyama cost. Lets not talk about Osvaldo, but there are plenty of good talent around for +/-£10M who will improve the SQUAD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 and the England team flew back to Manchester (why ? to get Shaw to Carrington in time for his medical ? Wouldnt the England team fly back to London ?) The plane stopped in Manchester to drop off the northern based players, before continuing on to Luton to drop off the remainder of the squad, saw this on Sky News. Don't let that get in the way of a good conspiracy theory though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 From contact who works at club (no reason to disbelieve) £34m upfront Could rise to £40m+ with add-ons (not ITK but presume its after league apps, England apps, League titles etc) 30% of any profit United make on selling him on Sad to see him go and wish him all the best but that is one hell of a deal for an 18 year old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 It does make me laugh how when we got £12m for AOC everyone said it was brilliant negotating to get that much for a kid and just shows how we wont be shoved around by big clubs, yet when we get a world record fee from one of the worlds biggest clubs for a player in his postion we've caved in and it wasn't a good deal because in 10 years time he'll definitely be worth £500m and we should have kept him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 From contact who works at club (no reason to disbelieve) £34m upfront Could rise to £40m+ with add-ons (not ITK but presume its after league apps, England apps, League titles etc) 30% of any profit United make on selling him on Sad to see him go and wish him all the best but that is one hell of a deal for an 18 year old hope that's true, that is mental good deal for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 All perfeclty good points. We will have a fight on our hands next season if a new manager with no PL experience is fielding a team of 6+ newbies and kids. But of course you are bedwetting by daring to say this... How will Man Utd fare with the same set of circumstances ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Sell one player who quite clearly doesnt want to be here for £30M and replace him with 3 people who do want to be here at £10M a piece What's not to understand there? Or even 6 people for 5M. We are going to be awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 From contact who works at club (no reason to disbelieve) £34m upfront Could rise to £40m+ with add-ons (not ITK but presume its after league apps, England apps, League titles etc) 30% of any profit United make on selling him on Sad to see him go and wish him all the best but that is one hell of a deal for an 18 year old Good deal all around if true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 June 29th for first 'alpine complaint of no transfer activity' sweepstake winner please contact me for your winnings No that's right, you'd prefer we were run by the bloke who you said last year ran us like a crappy B&B You lucky lucky man, noone jumped on this one.... (me neither obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
student Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Crook says 27m upfront with it rising to 34m based on various clauses. A good deal for all involved. I still maintain that the deal was done before the world cup, Shaw had signed a precontract with united before hand which imposed a penalty on him if he didnt sign! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Utd are buying potential and with potential comes risk, will he kick on, will he stay injury free, will money change him. At the moment it is a great deal for us, as he stands now, he is replaceable for under half the money. Whether it remains a good deal depends on his progress during the next 4 years. However ,any valuation must take into account the diminishing amount of years left on his saints contract. The board obviously decided that this was the optimum moment to sell and looking from the outside I tend to agree. It doesn't matter if he becomes the best full back that ever played the game in 4 years time , because he becomes worth £0 once his contract runs out. He was never going to sign a new contract ,so the judgement then becomes , is it worth keeping a player for another year or two who wants away but we may get more than £34 million for? I personally think the risk is too great and the board have done the eighth thing. As an aside , him moving also ensures our acedemy continues to receive great reviews. Its a real selling point to the parents of the best youngsters that your kid can have a great football education, play in the first team early and still get a big move early in their career ( because of the way we've devoloped them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 It does make me laugh how when we got £12m for AOC everyone said it was brilliant negotating to get that much for a kid and just shows how we wont be shoved around by big clubs, yet when we get a world record fee from one of the worlds biggest clubs for a player in his postion we've caved in and it wasn't a good deal because in 10 years time he'll definitely be worth £500m and we should have kept him. still think £12m was good dollar for a teenager who had only played league 1 & only two years left on contract. Also getting them to bung us £10k every time he plays 20 mins was lols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 From contact who works at club (no reason to disbelieve) £34m upfront Could rise to £40m+ with add-ons (not ITK but presume its after league apps, England apps, League titles etc) 30% of any profit United make on selling him on Sad to see him go and wish him all the best but that is one hell of a deal for an 18 year old For someone we wanted to keep, that would satisfy me. South of 30m up-front wouldnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 It does make me laugh how when we got £12m for AOC everyone said it was brilliant negotating to get that much for a kid and just shows how we wont be shoved around by big clubs, yet when we get a world record fee from one of the worlds biggest clubs for a player in his postion we've caved in and it wasn't a good deal because in 10 years time he'll definitely be worth £500m and we should have kept him. One of them a youngster with one L1 season behind him. The other with 50+ PL appearances, made WC with his national team in front of a player like Ashley Cole. Yes, similar situations.... (But I do agree that this fee now is fantastic for the club, but dont see the comparison between those two cases) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 From contact who works at club (no reason to disbelieve) £34m upfront Could rise to £40m+ with add-ons (not ITK but presume its after league apps, England apps, League titles etc) 30% of any profit United make on selling him on Sad to see him go and wish him all the best but that is one hell of a deal for an 18 year old Crook says 27m upfront with it rising to 34m based on various clauses. A good deal for all involved. I still maintain that the deal was done before the world cup, Shaw had signed a precontract with united before hand which imposed a penalty on him if he didnt sign! Who to believe???? I know who I want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 You lucky lucky man, noone jumped on this one.... (me neither obviously) Turkish is the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goneawol Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 ...I trust our board about as far as I can throw them. Not a single strong whiff of an incoming player. Just like last year, then we signed Lovren. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiesaint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Crook says 27m upfront with it rising to 34m based on various clauses. A good deal for all involved. I still maintain that the deal was done before the world cup, Shaw had signed a precontract with united before hand which imposed a penalty on him if he didnt sign! I may well be wrong, but my understanding that to sign a pre-contract with another club in the same country, you had to be in the last 6 months of your contract with your current club. It's 12 months if the new club is in another country. Didn't Shaw sign a long term deal recently (which is one reason the transfer figure is so high)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 (edited) still think £12m was good dollar for a teenager who had only played league 1 & only two years left on contract. Also getting them to bung us £10k every time he plays 20 mins was lols It was, never said it wasn't. But so is. World record fee for a full back with only 3 international caps who has never scored and only provided one assist in 60 pl appearances. Edited 27 June, 2014 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 It was, never said it wasn't. But so is. World record fee for a full back with only 3 international caps who has never scored or provided an assist in 60 pl appearances. That's an incredible stat! Almost Glasgowesque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tisspahars Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 For someone we wanted to keep, that would satisfy me. South of 30m up-front wouldnt. Didn't think there was anything that would satisfy you, Alpine. Except an unfeasibly large Toblerone maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Give it to Ron Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 It was, never said it wasn't. But so is. World record fee for a full back with only 3 international caps who has never scored or provided an assist in 60 pl appearances. Didnt he set up our equaliser away at Chelsea last year for Punch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Crook also tells me in World Exclusive that player sales will mostly fund our transfer budget: @alex_crook: £27m up front payment would clear #saintsfc outstanding transfer debts but club have promised the cash to Koeman to reinvest #shaw #mufc @thomas_j_morris: @alex_crook is that on top of additional transfer kitty in place, or are funds being raised purely from player sales? #saintsfc @alex_crook: @thomas_j_morris majority of it from sales #saintsfc Contradicts what Guan has told us (£35m kitty) and also reinforces theFalseLibero's point about Crook's behind-the-scenes knowledge being extremely limited. As if we didn't already know that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 For someone we wanted to keep, that would satisfy me. South of 30m up-front wouldnt. Didn't think there was anything that would satisfy you, Alpine. Except an unfeasibly large Toblerone maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 The amazing achievements of the NC years are unravelling, is the chairman still on holiday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 The amazing achievements of the NC years are unravelling, is the chairman still on holiday? Why do you think Cortese would have made a difference? Shaw is reported to be now earning £5m+ per year and is at one of the biggest clubs in the world. As long as Man Utd met our price it was always going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 If we sell Lallana and Lovren (which remains very much an IF at this stage) then we will have £70m to spend instead of £30m. We could only spend half of that and still have a truly excellent team. You know your Ukrainian football Charlie, according to some press reports we could afford Yarmolenko AND Konoplyanka with the £25m we want for Lallana. Thats just an example but if you reinvest wisely you can often come out stronger than before. With good management, 4 new faces in the team really shouldn't be a problem. There may be teething pains to start but that's part of football. Oh joy, lets get rid of this young, home grown team we've steadily built up for 5 years and become just another prem team of mercenaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 One of them a youngster with one L1 season behind him. The other with 50+ PL appearances, made WC with his national team in front of a player like Ashley Cole. Yes, similar situations.... (But I do agree that this fee now is fantastic for the club, but dont see the comparison between those two cases) I'm simply pointing out how both were good deals but some are viewing them as polar opposites because of how they perceive the respective chairmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Crook also tells me in World Exclusive that player sales will mostly fund our transfer budget: @alex_crook: £27m up front payment would clear #saintsfc outstanding transfer debts but club have promised the cash to Koeman to reinvest #shaw #mufc @thomas_j_morris: @alex_crook is that on top of additional transfer kitty in place, or are funds being raised purely from player sales? #saintsfc @alex_crook: @thomas_j_morris majority of it from sales #saintsfc Contradicts what Guan has told us (£35m kitty) and also reinforces theFalseLibero's point about Crook's behind-the-scenes knowledge being extremely limited. As if we didn't already know that... What about the £150+million we're getting from last season and next season, will that cover the transfer debt? I'd wager that's already been paid off for gods sake and yet people still bang on about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanovski Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 I think the 12m + for oxo by Cortese is better than the 27m for shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_ed Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 People need to realise that we are in the middle of a necessary transition. As big a fan as I was of him, players (and fans) were sold an unrealistic dream under Cortese, hence we have a tidal wave of players supposedly wanting out. We will replace them with talented players who are sold the club on more REALISTIC targets. That is not to say our ambition has decreased in any way, it's to say we are targeting Europa League first and foremost, not Champions League after 2/3 seasons back in the Premiership. Hopefully this will eventually lead to a more settled squad to provide continuity to achieve those ambitions rather than jumping ship after one season of not finishing in the top 4 (I'm looking at you Dejan Lovren and Luke Shaw). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 What about the £150+million we're getting from last season and next season, will that cover the transfer debt? I'd wager that's already been paid off for gods sake and yet people still bang on about it. Yeah we must be doing well from cash inflow and will certainly do well financially from the summer. Even if we reinvest all the money will bring in, we will be able to do most of our business without even dipping into any existing funding for transfers...if we wished to. Certainly should be able to wipe either or both of transfer monies owned and Staplewood work with the income we have and / or are likely to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Didnt he set up our equaliser away at Chelsea last year for Punch? He did, I forget about that one, that is the only one though. I've always believed stats don't tell the whole story. Shaw is testament to that, but some on here love them. You can guarantee that numerous players will be written off or hyped up on here due to their stats before the window shuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 RK could have phoned him like Poch has to the Spurs players. He didn't because he knew when he took the job that Shaw was going so is probably not fussed if it adds to his kitty. How do you RK hasnt spoken to Shaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 People need to realise that we are in the middle of a necessary transition. As big a fan as I was of him, players (and fans) were sold an unrealistic dream under Cortese, hence we have a tidal wave of players supposedly wanting out. We will replace them with talented players who are sold the club on more REALISTIC targets. That is not to say our ambition has decreased in any way, it's to say we are targeting Europa League first and foremost, not Champions League after 2/3 seasons back in the Premiership. Hopefully this will eventually lead to a more settled squad to provide continuity to achieve those ambitions rather than jumping ship after one season of not finishing in the top 4 (I'm looking at you Dejan Lovren and Luke Shaw). I see a flaw in that.... " Ronald Koeman targets Champions League spot" http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/premierleague/article4122314.ece Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milton Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Didn't think there was anything that would satisfy you, Alpine. Except an unfeasibly large Toblerone maybe. Brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelman Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Guardian £27m Mail/Sky/Telegraph £30m Express/Mirror/Sun £33m Scholes/Indy £34m Star £36m ie they don't know what the agreement is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Regrets I still can't say anything. Even though the press can! Non-disclosure clause at the back of that somewhere perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 Oh joy, lets get rid of this young, home grown team we've steadily built up for 5 years and become just another prem team of mercenaries. This is a concern of mine also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 I see a flaw in that.... " Ronald Koeman targets Champions League spot" http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/football/premierleague/article4122314.ece That article is spinning what he meant somewhat and is lost in translation, he talked of winning FA Cup/League Cup and getting into the Europe. I doubt he meant the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 June, 2014 Share Posted 27 June, 2014 This is a concern of mine also. Why would that be then, surely we've been assured that we're going to carry on in the same fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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