VectisSaint Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 By merely asking a question? I would like to know whether Katerina Liebherr has personally funded £30-40 Million of her own wealth as opposed to Liebherr Group (the company) themselves who view Southampton as a long term investment (ie bought low sell high philosophy). There is no wind up on this. Southampton is nothing to do with the Liebherr Group. Nothing, please try to understand something very simple. Markus was nothing to do with the Liebherr Group, he sold his shares many years ago, Katherina is his daughter and inherited his wealth after his unfortunate and untimely death. Other than a family relationship, she has no other financial or business connection to the Liebherr Group. Along with his brother Hubert, Markus struck out on his own after the death of his father Hans even though he initially inherited a share of the Liebherr business that had been built up by Hans. Its all out there on the interweb thingy if you could only tear yourself away from this forum for a few minutes (or better still a few days) you could actually learn something if you bothered to try and find out and stop posting your nonsense and polluting this forum. But there, why shoud you know any of this, you being an Everton supporter or Skate or whatever it is you actually are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 Southampton is nothing to do with the Liebherr Group. Nothing, please try to understand something very simple. Markus was nothing to do with the Liebherr Group, he sold his shares many years ago, Katherina is his daughter and inherited his wealth after his unfortunate and untimely death. Other than a family relationship, she has no other financial or business connection to the Liebherr Group. Along with his brother Hubert, Markus struck out on his own after the death of his father Hans even though he initially inherited a share of the Liebherr business that had been built up by Hans. Its all out there on the interweb thingy if you could only tear yourself away from this forum for a few minutes (or better still a few days) you could actually learn something if you bothered to try and find out and stop posting your nonsense and polluting this forum. But there, why shoud you know any of this, you being an Everton supporter or Skate or whatever it is you actually are. No point in trying to drum it into the thickos Vectis, for them all Liebherrs are one and the same thing, our owner has the family fortune and probably sells a few cranes and fridges in her spare time. Can't estimate the number of times that I've posted details of the different branches of the family. I really doubt that our owner is really very rich at all, well as rich people go that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 10 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 May, 2014 I presume you mean the MALI group if companies that her dad created. As I understand it this has now been dissolved. Although she did not out the money in herself it is now her money that is invested. In this situation any sponsorship would be viewed and evaluated in its own right as to its cost-effectiveness. You could argue that its hers by default but I don't believe she has put anything near that, she may put some in to protect the investment but nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 10 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 May, 2014 Southampton is nothing to do with the Liebherr Group. Nothing, please try to understand something very simple. Markus was nothing to do with the Liebherr Group, he sold his shares many years ago, Katherina is his daughter and inherited his wealth after his unfortunate and untimely death. Other than a family relationship, she has no other financial or business connection to the Liebherr Group. Along with his brother Hubert, Markus struck out on his own after the death of his father Hans even though he initially inherited a share of the Liebherr business that had been built up by Hans. Its all out there on the interweb thingy if you could only tear yourself away from this forum for a few minutes (or better still a few days) you could actually learn something if you bothered to try and find out and stop posting your nonsense and polluting this forum. But there, why shoud you know any of this, you being an Everton supporter or Skate or whatever it is you actually are. So there would be no conflicting interest, where have I mentioned she or anyone else works for the group? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 So there would be no conflicting interest, where have I mentioned she or anyone else works for the group? Why just not admit that you were wrong. Or why did you choose Liebherr in your OP?? Why not Apple, McDonalds or KFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 10 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 10 May, 2014 Why just not admit that you were wrong. Or why did you choose Liebherr in your OP?? Why not Apple, McDonalds or KFC? Because I'm not and because of the obvious connection between Katerina Liebherr/Liberherr Group and Southampton FC? Are now going to say Markus Liebherr was just a venture capitalist/angel investor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 Because unlike Barry, Katharina Liebherr does not need to have her own name stitched in her clothing. Doffs cap accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 Because I'm not and because of the obvious connection between Katerina Liebherr/Liberherr Group and Southampton FC? Are now going to say Markus Liebherr was just a venture capitalist/angel investor? Barry, take the night off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 No point in trying to drum it into the thickos Vectis, for them all Liebherrs are one and the same thing, our owner has the family fortune and probably sells a few cranes and fridges in her spare time. Can't estimate the number of times that I've posted details of the different branches of the family. I really doubt that our owner is really very rich at all, well as rich people go that is. Agreed about thickos, but not sure about KL's wealth. Markus was oft quoted as being worth about 4bill when he bought us out 5 years ago. I can't recall or find out if she was an only child but if she is then I imagine she inherited the vast majority of the Estate (my understanding is that death duties in Switzerland are quite low, one of the main reasons Hans moved there from Germany to avoid the high death duties in his homeland). Also with MALI being wound up I suspect the assets of the various parts of the group may have increased her wealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 (edited) Agreed about thickos, but not sure about KL's wealth. Markus was oft quoted as being worth about 4bill when he bought us out 5 years ago. I can't recall or find out if she was an only child but if she is then I imagine she inherited the vast majority of the Estate (my understanding is that death duties in Switzerland are quite low, one of the main reasons Hans moved there from Germany to avoid the high death duties in his homeland). Also with MALI being wound up I suspect the assets of the various parts of the group may have increased her wealth. The fortune quoted for the late Markus is just a rough guess based on the entire family wealth. At the last Forbes count the total wealth of the Liebherr family had been reduced to about 3.0 billion dollars. No-one has ever produced any hard evidence to Markus's real wealth and really it doesn't matter too much but the fact that it's entirety could be managed by Cortese from his desk at SMS for nigh on 3 years indicates to me that the Billionaire status which has been attributed to him for these years is in fact a case of "send three and fourpence we're going to a dance". He had enough to treat us well, long may it continue but the fact that the current incumbent actually seems to be worried about money in some small way instils a sense of not being all that rich (400-500 million all told) to me. Edited 10 May, 2014 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 You could argue that its hers by default but I don't believe she has put anything near that, she may put some in to protect the investment but nothing more. I would agree, based on what little I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 10 May, 2014 Share Posted 10 May, 2014 Are now going to say Markus Liebherr was just a venture capitalist/angel investor? LMFAO...barry don't use terms you don't understand.......In what context, in what way, in what ever freaking context could Markus ever be described as an "angel" investor. barry, give up now. You obviously know nothing about the financial Side of things........ you are just trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 11 May, 2014 Share Posted 11 May, 2014 This whole thread is bizarre: The OP querying why the owner doesn't pay herself in sponsorship and the ignorance about Markus / Liebherr / MALI etc that has been recycled on here dozens of times. This forum is getting as lazy as the journalists in recycling crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliegeorgesflymo Posted 11 May, 2014 Share Posted 11 May, 2014 She also has no affiliation to Liebherr... This is the whole point - Markus Liebherr broke away from the family business and set up his own company Mali Group - Liebherr the multinational organisation are not linked to KL. I'm sure it has helped being part of the family but it's not dissimilar to Adidas and Puma - Puma wouldn't sponsor an Adidas owned team but both businesses set up by brothers from the same family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrise Posted 11 May, 2014 Share Posted 11 May, 2014 It would be a great move for both surely? Why would they want to sponsor Pompey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 5 November, 2014 Share Posted 5 November, 2014 Markus Liebherr's older brother Hans Liebherr (junior) was at St Mary's for the Stoke City game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 5 November, 2014 Share Posted 5 November, 2014 Markus Liebherr's older brother Hans Liebherr (junior) was at St Mary's for the Stoke City game. Do go on.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 5 November, 2014 Share Posted 5 November, 2014 (edited) I think its likely it was just a guest of his niece rather than anything more. But good to see the wider Liebherr family are interested in what is happening at the club. Edited 5 November, 2014 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeny Posted 5 November, 2014 Share Posted 5 November, 2014 Dear All Liebherr do not only make cranes and fridges. I work in the Australian mining industry and they are a massive player in the mechanical shovels ( the huge machines that load the haulpacks ) about 5 Million each and they are starting to get a few haulpac fleets in as well about 3 million for each truck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Do go on.... MLG making out he's ITK on this, however Ralph said it in his interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Markus Liebherr's older brother Hans Liebherr (junior) was at St Mary's for the Stoke City game. Couldn't you have started a new thread instead of wasting my time reading this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_emu Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Maybe he's come to give a mates rates quote on the stadium expansion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Couldn't you have started a new thread instead of wasting my time reading this one? Maybe he would have if he knew that Hans was also at several matches a season with friends and family members. For the Stoke arrived in a car with blacked out windows and is a big fan of the corriander lounge , took his mate and his mates son there for a meal the night before the match, what fantastic taste those Libeherrs have :-) but the I guess you don't get that sort of info from just watching videos everyone else does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Maybe he would have if he knew that Hans was also at several matches a season with friends and family members. For the Stoke arrived in a car with blacked out windows and is a big fan of the corriander lounge , took his mate and his mates son there for a meal the night before the match, what fantastic taste those Libeherrs have :-) but the I guess you don't get that sort of info from just watching videos everyone else does. Ooo, get you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint 76er Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 According to Connor Armstrong in his blog of his tour of the new facilities, the 'Markus Liebherr Pavilion' sign on the outside of the new building is in the exact same font (no, not Jose!) as the official Liebherr company font. Make of that what you will ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 According to Connor Armstrong in his blog of his tour of the new facilities, the 'Markus Liebherr Pavilion' sign on the outside of the new building is in the exact same font (no, not Jose!) as the official Liebherr company font. Make of that what you will ... What I make of that is that either Connor isn't a great observer of fonts, or that Liebherr have changed their logo since the last time I looked at it. Because to me, the MARKUS LIEBHERR PAVILION sign is in the same typeface as you'll find on all the Saints documents this season and looks nothing like the Liebherr logo seen on heavy machinery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 What I make of that is that either Connor isn't a great observer of fonts, or that Liebherr have changed their logo since the last time I looked at it. Because to me, the MARKUS LIEBHERR PAVILION sign is in the same typeface as you'll find on all the Saints documents this season and looks nothing like the Liebherr logo seen on heavy machinery. Fair point I reckon... the official Liebherr logo is chunckier. Almost as much fun as earlobe analysis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 (edited) I can kind of see that it looks like the Liebherr logo from an angle, but it doesn't head on. Edited 6 November, 2014 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Abroad Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 According to Connor Armstrong in his blog of his tour of the new facilities, the 'Markus Liebherr Pavilion' sign on the outside of the new building is in the exact same font (no, not Jose!) as the official Liebherr company font. Make of that what you will ... I believe "Wingding" was originally proposed but the 5 1/4" floppy disk character was harder to acquire than first thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Couldn't we avoid FFP by signing a £50m a year sponsorship deal with the Liebherrs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Couldn't we avoid FFP by signing a £50m a year sponsorship deal with the Liebherrs? I think I just came a little in my pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Couldn't we avoid FFP by signing a £50m a year sponsorship deal with the Liebherrs? No. For FFP purposes the value of the deal would be reduced to what the authorities consider reasonable. That is part of why Man City and PSG failed FFP this past year. If it were structured as part of a Stadium naming deal, it would be much more acceptable and if it were partially contingent on European participation that would make it better too. Also, FFP is not the functional limit on our finances right now. Katharina Liebherr could put in more money each year if she wanted to. Under Premier League FFP she could put in 35 million pounds a year (really 105 million over three years) plus the costs of running the academy and the entire cost of the 40 million pound Staplewood complex. Under European FFP, she would be limited to 30 million Euros over three years. Assuming I am correctly understanding what they are saying, the Board wants the club to break even including all costs so FFP is not the current barrier to spending money at Southampton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 Fair point I reckon... the official Liebherr logo is chunckier. Almost as much fun as earlobe analysis Lol the oldies are the goodies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Jude Posted 6 November, 2014 Share Posted 6 November, 2014 No. For FFP purposes the value of the deal would be reduced to what the authorities consider reasonable. That is part of why Man City and PSG failed FFP this past year. If it were structured as part of a Stadium naming deal, it would be much more acceptable and if it were partially contingent on European participation that would make it better too. Also, FFP is not the functional limit on our finances right now. Katharina Liebherr could put in more money each year if she wanted to. Under Premier League FFP she could put in 35 million pounds a year (really 105 million over three years) plus the costs of running the academy and the entire cost of the 40 million pound Staplewood complex. Under European FFP, she would be limited to 30 million Euros over three years. Assuming I am correctly understanding what they are saying, the Board wants the club to break even including all costs so FFP is not the current barrier to spending money at Southampton. Presumably she could put that money in, but only a limited amount could go on salary due to the £4m max increase on salaries... once you get over the £52m limit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 November, 2014 Share Posted 7 November, 2014 No. For FFP purposes the value of the deal would be reduced to what the authorities consider reasonable. That is part of why Man City and PSG failed FFP this past year. If it were structured as part of a Stadium naming deal, it would be much more acceptable and if it were partially contingent on European participation that would make it better too. Also, FFP is not the functional limit on our finances right now. Katharina Liebherr could put in more money each year if she wanted to. Under Premier League FFP she could put in 35 million pounds a year (really 105 million over three years) plus the costs of running the academy and the entire cost of the 40 million pound Staplewood complex. Under European FFP, she would be limited to 30 million Euros over three years. Assuming I am correctly understanding what they are saying, the Board wants the club to break even including all costs so FFP is not the current barrier to spending money at Southampton. Who the hell are the authorities to decide what is a reasonable amount? Nike are pumping over £100million into united a season, maybe that should get reduced to a reasonable amount and then they might get somewhere with their billion pounds of debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 7 November, 2014 Share Posted 7 November, 2014 Presumably she could put that money in, but only a limited amount could go on salary due to the £4m max increase on salaries... once you get over the £52m limit? I wonder what the wage increase rules say about contracted wage increases? For example if our players have a clause that states if we finish in the top 4 they all get 25% wage increases that would be an increase of well over £4million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redslo Posted 7 November, 2014 Share Posted 7 November, 2014 (edited) Presumably she could put that money in, but only a limited amount could go on salary due to the £4m max increase on salaries... once you get over the £52m limit? The salary cap limit is separate from the FFP limits. And the salary cap this year is 56 million. Who the hell are the authorities to decide what is a reasonable amount? Nike are pumping over £100million into united a season, maybe that should get reduced to a reasonable amount and then they might get somewhere with their billion pounds of debt. Only related party transactions are subject to reduction this way. I wonder what the wage increase rules say about contracted wage increases? For example if our players have a clause that states if we finish in the top 4 they all get 25% wage increases that would be an increase of well over £4million. There is no exception for contracted wage increases. If there were, the rules would have no teeth. Actually that's a joke. They have no teeth in a sense because the big clubs with high salaries get to keep paying those high salaries and can increase them by at least 4 million pounds a year. But the salary cap is still a real limitation on smaller clubs unless they can increase their income. To be fair, if we do well this year we are probably in a position to significantly increase our income. Edited 7 November, 2014 by Redslo making post less mistakey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackanorySFC Posted 7 November, 2014 Share Posted 7 November, 2014 Redslo = Southampton's own Swiss Ramble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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