Dr Who? Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Discuss this new set up. I like the idea, but surely this will get confusing with the fixture list if we or other clubs get promotion. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27327502 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Terrible idea that will destroy the football league. The only clubs that will benefit will be the top 4 who will be able to hoover up more and more talent and relocate them to their B teams who'll end up forcing their way into the championship. Won't do any benefit to Saints either, given our model is based on giving academy players opportunities in the 1st team and won't do anything for england team as these players still won't get opportunities in the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Whats the point in it really?! Will hurt football league clubs. Clubs should learn to use their own players and given them a chance in the league, hat good is it going to do for a young promising footballer playing at L2/Conference level?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Whats the point in it really? would be v.funny to see our B team thump portsmouth. I'm on board with this for that reason alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Will not work. Man Utd vs Man Utd B in a Cup Semi Final? Really? How about a better idea. Introduce a Home Grown Players rule. Start with a minimum of 5 home trained players in your squad in one season then increase over 4 years until 6 of the Match Day squad MUST be UK Academy products and 3 must be from your OWN Academy. Wasn't that kind of thing the original plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Ill thought out and non-sensical approach. If a clubs wants to develop youngsters and play them, they can. Whether the players are in a reserve league, U21 league or B league won't make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Monkey Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Is the proposal that just prem clubs have B teams? What then happens when teams get relegated/promoted to/from the prem? Do existing B teams fold and new ones take their place? What would then happen to the B team players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Will not work. Man Utd vs Man Utd B in a Cup Semi Final? Really? The report says B teams aren't allowed in FA Cup or League Cup. How about a better idea. Introduce a Home Grown Players rule. Start with a minimum of 5 home trained players in your squad in one season then increase over 4 years until 6 of the Match Day squad MUST be UK Academy products and 3 must be from your OWN Academy. Something along these lines is included in the commissions report. They plan over a number of years to get clubs to have 12 players with football education in England, with 4 of them having to come through your own academy in the 25 man squads. Plus signing non EU players will be significantly limited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scummer Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Les Reed was strongly against the idea when they spoke to him at the awards night on Tuesday. He couldn't see how it would benefit our players. It's a stupid idea, it may work in other countries but few countries have such a strong lower league setup as England. Some of the top flight clubs in Spain don't get crowds of much more than 10k, so I imagine lower than that it's 5 men and their dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Is this some kind of late April fools? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 "We have had a lot of interest and enthusiasm from the big Premier League clubs about having B teams in a lower division. Liverpool, the Manchester clubs, Stoke, Tottenham have no problems in talking about it and recognise the problems they have got. They are spending lots of money on youth development but don't have anywhere for these players to play before the first team." ahh Stoke's youth players have been secretly blocked from emerging by the lack of a B team. Hmm smell a rat. Really sad that Dyke's is acting as the agent of these top clubs to destroy the league structure rather than challenging why they won't play the players in their 1st teams. Utter scum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 I think people will be surprised how badly some of these B teams will fare actually but aside from it being a terrible idea all round, I don't see us as a club opting in for this. If I've read it right, they only need 10 B teams to join. I'm pretty sure we'll decline the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southamptonfc Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 As most say. Terrible idea. Top Premier clubs can continue to hoover up young English talent, not give them any chance to play at the top level, then cherry pick the best. The FA is almost as big a money making joke as FIFA. They know where their money comes from and they don't want to upset the big clubs and the Premier League. Want more English players in the Premier League? How about forcing teams to play more players in the Premier League? What a stupid idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Some of the top flight clubs in Spain don't get crowds of much more than 10k, so I imagine lower than that it's 5 men and their dogs. Real Madrid and Barcelona's B teams average around 4k, so god only knows what Stoke and Burnley's will get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The idea is to get the youth playing regular football, something that is not done at the moment, I should imagine if they are playing regularly and look good then they will quickly get integrated into the 'A' team. 'B' teams will be a 25 man squad of homegrown players with only 3 allowed to be over 21, sensible. They will not be allowed in the Cups or promotion to the Championship, and a new League 3 will be created to accommodate them. Add in the restriction on non-EU players (non allowed below the PL and only 2 maximum per PL team) and I think it's a damn good start (for the England team). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 All about the big clubs again. Endless talk about english football being the priority, then a plan to destroy our lower leagues, which are fantastic are they are. At some point B teams will get promoted, it'll just make the leagues a farce. If you want english players playing more, insist on a certain number of homegrown players in the matchday squad. All the problems they cite aren't problems at Southampton. It is possible and even more sensible for most clubs long-run. Plenty of talent out there just needed a chance. Clubs need to wake up and realise there is talent in the lower leagues and the foreign option isn't always best. Sadly they can't enforce this because of EU employment laws (restraint of trade). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonist Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Sadly they can't enforce this because of EU employment laws (restraint of trade). why does this seem to be the only situation in which an invitation only tournament cannot control eligibility? the premier league/FA are not employing the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint86 Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 It is a terrible idea. Literally a shambles. It will also devastate the lower league structure. Should not be brought in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 English players are expensive enough as it is, if any kind of home grown rule comes in, English players transfer fees will shoot through the roof. Although any of these proposals is worrying, it's why we really need to keep a hold of Lallana and Shaw et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Why would young players improve playing against the likes of Eastleigh every other week? Why not have a Premier Reserve League? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 I've little interest in this shambles as constituted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 I'm amused that they used the Spanish and German league system as their beacons when if you delve a little deeper, they're not all they're cracked up to be themselves. From the summer, the German clubs have agreed that B teams for top-flight clubs will no longer be mandatory, so Germany, one of the nations we're trying to imitate, is already moving in the opposite direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bad Bob Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 why does this seem to be the only situation in which an invitation only tournament cannot control eligibility? the premier league/FA are not employing the players. http://www.lawinsport.com/blog/item/eu-employment-law-an-obstacle-to-footballers-calls-for-quota-system-in-england Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 If so and so is playing well for let's say Chelsea B, still means he'd never get promoted to the A team. They would still buy the latest 30million pound player anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 From the summer, the German clubs have agreed that B teams for top-flight clubs will no longer be mandatory. Do you have a link for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Interesting stuff on WSC about this, also links to an article from 2007 on the German model which states no one is interested in the B teams. http://www.wsc.co.uk/wsc-daily/1177-may-2014/11441-germany-s-b-teams-have-damaged-lower-league-clubs Someone's also started a petition against it: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-football-association-say-no-to-b-teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiggy Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Twitter is going mental over the new announcements. With the trend #saynotoleague3 being the second highest trend in the UK. The general consensus from fans of smaller teams, conference teams in particular, that it is a ridiculous scheme that only benefits the PL clubs. Which I agree with tbh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Terrible idea that will destroy the football league. The only clubs that will benefit will be the top 4 who will be able to hoover up more and more talent and relocate them to their B teams who'll end up forcing their way into the championship. Won't do any benefit to Saints either, given our model is based on giving academy players opportunities in the 1st team and won't do anything for england team as these players still won't get opportunities in the prem. Fortunately it is a complete non-starter and is opposed by football league clubs and non-league clubs alike. It would ride roughshod over years of history and the commitment of thousands and thousands of fans to their local club. As you say only the top 4 are likely to benefit. Getting their B teams into the Championship in a couple of years will mean they can buy up and warehouse even more talent. What is worrying is that the FA is in the hands of the clearly barking mad Greg Dyke. The proposal is completely irrelevant to developing English talent and seems to completely ignore the lessons offered by the Liverpool/Saints approach to nurturing talent and the potential impact of recent or planned changes such as the advent of the EPPP which came about after years of careful thought and have the backing of most clubs! He should either resign now or someone should have him sectioned before he can do any real damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Only the top 4 are likely to benefit. Getting their B teams into the Championship in a couple of years will mean they can buy up and warehouse even more talent. The proposal states "B" teams aren't allowed to go higher than League 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Do you have a link for that? There are many reasons for this but one has been their awful effect on crowds. First of all home spectators have struggled to take seriously say Grimma vs Hamburg B rather than say Grimma vs local rivals Saxon Leipzig (sadly no longer with us) because they don't see any meaning in the fixtures. Secondly, of course Hamburg B bring no supporters with them. The result is passionless game in front of passionless crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Greg Dyke on Talksport getting chewed on DriveTime. His argument for this idea was "look at the amount of English players in the top 4!" . FFS why should all of English football pay for the short sightedness of the top 4? The top 4 have the resources to implement academies equal or better than Southampton's, they just lack the will as it would be too difficult to maintain position. So we must all pay for their greed and cowardice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The proposal states "B" teams aren't allowed to go higher than League 1. The proposal might say that now to try and get Championship sides on board but while this would bring its own problems - Chelsea B finish top by 16 points and don't go up but Bristol City finishing 4th do! - it would clearly set a nasty precedent and it would only be a matter of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The proposal might say that now to try and get Championship sides on board but while this would bring its own problems - Chelsea B finish top by 16 points and don't go up but Bristol City finishing 4th do! - it would clearly set a nasty precedent and it would only be a matter of time. It also works like that in Spain and Germany, although highest level they are allowed is the 2nd tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Do you have a link for that? http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/bundesliga/id/647?cc=5739 Leverkusen and Frankfurt have already declared that they'll be disbanding their B teams. The main justification is that the level those teams play at (mostly regional fourth tier, with Stuttgart and Dortmund's B teams in the national third division and as with today's proposals, no promotion to the second division) isn't sufficient enough for the most talented youth products, and that rather than play them in the B team, Bundesliga clubs tend to send them out on loan to second division teams (or newly-promoted top flight clubs) for the season which gives them a much better test. The same is true with our kids. Those who get sent on loan to a much lower level are probably those who we've assessed and decided aren't going to make it at the top level so it's best for their own development that they get some competitive football at the right level. As Les Reed said on the Footballers' Football Show a few weeks back, we don't like to loan out youngsters who are on the fringes of the first team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 http://www.espnfc.com/blog/_/name/bundesliga/id/647?cc=5739 Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killers Knee Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 All the best English players are in their respective first teams by the time they are 18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Ridiculous idea, Greg Dyche is an absolute moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Accrington Stanley @ASFCofficial 35m In 2016/17 we can achieve our dream... We'll finally be able to play Stoke City Reserves in the Football League... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Be honest, does anyone think this commission would dare come up with a list of ideas that would help english football but hurt the premier league clubs? It makes them absolutely redundant. Their statements just show a bewildering lack of judgement. Simple fact is Barca and other clubs on the continent seem happier to give young players a chance. If they're 18 what benefit is there playing league 3 rather than training with the first team? That's where saints have it right. Slowly choose which ones impress enough to step up and integrate with the first team, then give them some game time. Chelsea have Bamford looking good in the Championship. He won't get a chance with Chelsea. They have Lukaku looking good at Everton. He won't get a chance with Chelsea. Yet mystery 17 year old striker scoring 25 goals in league 3 in front of no crowds will? This. I just can't comprehend what is going through the minds of the 'commission' thinking this B league is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 I believe this epitomises how out of touch with reality the FA really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 More bewildering - it seems Saints aren't in favour, yet we have the most successful academy to first team story of all top clubs. How on earth can you have a commission and contradict the one success story you have? If we had a B team, I swear we'd have FEWER players getting their chance in the first team. And they'd have to play all their games on the Common! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 How long before hipsters start exclusively supporting B teams? Hull B have always been my team. My second team is Stoke B. Just imagine the Saints B fans forum. A kind of proving ground where baby Alps can learn to become angry, where Bazza can learn the art of creating boredom and where Baby DP can write about his adventures on the Pitch & Putt............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 Baby DP eww ive been letting you get away with Mrs DP, but i absolutely draw the line at DP babies. Where do you think you are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 (edited) Lots of negativity towards the idea (and I agree) but little idea what else to do from most people. So here's my go at an alternative solution. Issues are lack of english talent (how's that helped by playing conference sides?), too many foreigners throughout the league system (but we have eu employment law to contend with), a stockpiling of talent by the rich few, a bonkers loan system, a host of clubs in financial difficulty, and a big, historical league structure that needs protecting. So, I suggest a limit of 45 pros per team, 25 first team and 20 development squad players aged under 23 with no limit on academy players except the 45 must include all players on a pro contract to stop additional players being hidden by their age as an academy player. A full development squad league (outside of the league structure) allowing a max of 5 players from the first team squad to play, and in return any of the development squad can play in the first team. Any player who plays 50 per cent of the first team games must be registered as a first team player to again prevent them being hidden as a number in the development squad. A limit to the number of non eu nationals (suggest 2 or 3). A residency criteria for being allowed part of the development squad (I.e. X number must have been resident in uk for 5 years) to stop them being filled with foreigners). An auction for the lower league clubs to have the right to loan all excess players from each premier league club. I.e., Chelsea and arsenal have say 60 pros, 15 need loaning out so clubs can bid to have the right to loan who they want for a one off fee. Wages still paid by owning club, but (for example) Swindon could bid 5 million for the right to arsenals excess players. This would allow lower league clubs the ability to choose to bid cash in return for players for a season without having to commit to contracts for journeymen pros, allowing some financial freedom. If done once a season it would also prevent lower league clubs becoming permanent feeder clubs for the elite, allowing flexibility for when clubs rise and fall through the league pyramid (one of the best aspects of english football which needs protecting and isn't by dykes suggestions IMHO) and allow clubs to retain their dignity and identity. This would also help the big clubs manage their finances better within the ffp scenario, and also mean they don't have to make decisions too early on which players they progress with. Maybe the fee could also include the right to some coaching assistance from the big club for the season as well? Big clubs have great resources, including the number of coaches so why not encourage the sharing of this resource as well? Bit random and rather off the top of my head, but IMHO somewhat better thought through than dykes tripe. And I gave it 5 mins consideration without a huge salary. Surely with all the 'specialists' at his disposal, the massively overpaid dyke could have done a little better? Edited 8 May, 2014 by Chewy Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevegrant Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The primary issue for me is coaching. There simply aren't enough coaches of the required standard at youth levels, and a large part of that is because of the cost of getting the relevant qualifications. The UEFA A Licence course apparently costs anywhere between £2500 and £3500, depending on where in the country you are. In Spain, the course costs the equivalent of £435. It's little wonder there are at least ten times more qualified coaches in Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The plan is sheer nonsense and will cripple the Football League. We need a return to the former Football Combination Leagues North and South with a mixed of young and older skilled played. As Stan Collymore says, for youngsters to progress, they need to be up against old pros and not just players of their own age. I like the idea of link ups between Premier League clubs and clubs in the lower leagues. Been something I've supported for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The home of Southampton "B"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The idea that the likes of Chelsea will promote their youngsters to first team if they have a b team when they don't play the players they loan to the championship or even the likes of Lukaku who has had prem experience is bar my. Will just destroy lower leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 And they'd have to play all their games on the Common! Even better- Mayflower Park! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lets B Avenue Posted 8 May, 2014 Share Posted 8 May, 2014 The home of Southampton "B"... I preferred the BTC Ground in Stoneham Lane, which is where the last Southampton B team played. They were in the old Wednesday League in the 1960's and I used to watch them from my back garden. The Southampton A team played in the Hampshire League on the Saturdays, on the same pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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