European Elections 2014

[pap]

Heres a EU primer for you - this one courtesty of Richard Corbett. You should exercise a bit of free thought and read less media guff. http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/key-issues/meps-job/

 

 

Initial proposals for EU legislation are researched and put forward by the European Commission, which is also responsible for carrying out EU policies once they have been adopted. This executive body is composed of 28 individuals, proposed by EU national governments and approved by the European Parliament. The Commission holds office for five years, subject to Parliament’s continuing approval. It can be dismissed by Parliament during its term of office.

 

Part of an MEP’s job is to keep tabs on the executive Commission and on the civil servants working under the authority of the Commission — the famous Brussels bureaucrats. In fact, the total number of civil servants working for the Commission is fewer than work for a medium-sized city council — contrary to tabloid mythology! Nonetheless, they must be held accountable. Commissioners and their civil servants regularly appear before European Parliamentary committees to be questioned, to explain what they are up to and to be cross-examined.

 

Key facts

The European Commission is a small body, with fewer employees than Leeds City Council.

It has no legislative power. It can only make proposals to Parliament and Council, and carry out what is agreed.

Commissioners are held to account by Parliament, and are regularly called to be cross-examined by Parliamentary committees.

Parliament approves or rejects the appointment of the Commissioners, and can dismiss them.

 

None of which invalidates anything I've said. The executive branch, the one that proposes and implements legislation, is unelected.

 

Let's remember where we started on this; you were making some terrible point about UKIP and the apparent hypocrisy of them attacking the EU for being non-democratic when they stand to benefit from PR, the electoral system used to elect MEPs.

 

I pointed out that UKIP were talking about other things, such as an unelected executive branch, after which you attempt to characterise the European Commission as civil service, which we both know is bóllocks.

 

You got caught with your pants down. Why not try pulling them up instead of shítting all over the place?

[buctootim]

You got caught with your pants down. Why not try pulling them up instead of shítting all over the place?

 

You're hysterical when you get shown up - its always the same routine - claim victory and then get abusive.

 

Be less preachy and condescending and use a bit of independent thought man. You'll be taken more seriously.

[ThreeSixty]

UKIP not winning a single seat in Eastleigh is rather amusing.

[Wes Tender]

Perfectly fine argument. Sky are saying how they are making great stride in Labour's heartlands when the results at the moment, bar a few blips, clearly show otherwise. The tories and Libs and taking an utter kicking and Labour isn't in the locals. The Euros, I suspect, will see all the main 3 taking a hiding.

 

You are capable of seeing this from the perspective that the thread is supposed to be about the European Elections, the results for which won't be available until Sunday. Others seem to think that they can draw conclusions about the prospective performances of the parties in a General Election to be held next year, based on a low turnout vote with only the results of the Borough Council results as a basis for their conclusions. That position leads one to conclude that they are either extremely naive, or not really capable of thinking their position through intelligently.

 

Sour Mash: What major seachange were you expecting? How often does a significant new party emerge?

 

Exactly. I doubt for one second that even if the three traditional parties are dismissing UKIP's results in the Borough Council Elections in the media as poorer than they expected, I suspect that they are privately crapping themselves over the European Elections and the implications of those results on the public perception over whether UKIP are to be taken seriously as potential rivals to the established order.

[pap]

You're hysterical when you get shown up - its always the same routine - claim victory and then get abusive.

 

I'm quite proud of that line, myself. Never let it be said that I don't put the effort in when taking the píss.

 

However, in this case, funny is also true.

 

"Civil service"

 

Be less preachy and condescending and use a bit of independent thought man. You'll be taken more seriously.

 

Are you f**king kidding?

 

For starters, you're preaching yourself. Secondly, you're one of the most judgmental people on here.

[Wes Tender]

UKIP not winning a single seat in Eastleigh is rather amusing.

 

Everybody knows that the Lib Dems have a stranglehold on Eastleigh and have had for many, many years. Examine the results from each ward and it becomes clear that in many cases, there was potential for them to have lost some of their seats had the Conservative vote mainly, not been compromised by UKIP.

 

What will be far more interesting, will be how the votes pan out in terms of MEPS in the area, particularly because of PR. And of course, it is useful to remind you that in the Parliamentary Bye-election in Eastleigh, had their campaign had another couple of days, UKIP would probably have beaten the Lib-Dem candidate. Who is to say that in a General Election, that the Tory and Labour vote might not vote tactically to unseat the Lib-Dem MP? Borough Councillors are small fry and a very reasonable case could be made that all local Councillors would be Independent in an ideal World. The bigger picure in terms of the Political landscape is the MPs and MEPs

[buctootim]

Everybody knows that the Lib Dems have a stranglehold on Eastleigh and have had for many, many years. Examine the results from each ward and it becomes clear that in many cases, there was potential for them to have lost some of their seats had the Conservative vote mainly, not been compromised by UKIP.

 

What will be far more interesting, will be how the votes pan out in terms of MEPS in the area, particularly because of PR. And of course, it is useful to remind you that in the Parliamentary Bye-election in Eastleigh, had their campaign had another couple of days, UKIP would probably have beaten the Lib-Dem candidate. Who is to say that in a General Election, that the Tory and Labour vote might not vote tactically to unseat the Lib-Dem MP? Borough Councillors are small fry and a very reasonable case could be made that all local Councillors would be Independent in an ideal World. The bigger picure in terms of the Political landscape is the MPs and MEPs

 

UKIP will undoubtedly do much better in terms of seats in the European elections than in the council elections. I expect the Greens to do well also. There is a degree of irony in the fact that UKIP will be more fairly represented under EU elections processes than in UK national ones.

[pap]

UKIP will undoubtedly do much better in terms of seats in the European elections than in the council elections. I expect the Greens to do well also. There is a degree of irony in the fact that UKIP will be more fairly represented under EU elections processes than in UK national ones.

 

A crude guess at Westminster based on a PR system using 2010 results.

 

http://frigsociety.com/2012/07/12/popularity-contest/

[ecuk268]

The UKIP "Communities" spokesperson said the reason that they didn't do very well in London was because the London electorate was "too well educated".

 

Says it all, really.

[Wes Tender]

UKIP will undoubtedly do much better in terms of seats in the European elections than in the council elections. I expect the Greens to do well also. There is a degree of irony in the fact that UKIP will be more fairly represented under EU elections processes than in UK national ones.

 

I would anticipate that they would do at least as well in terms of numbers of MEPs if the European Elections was run on the FPTP system. Who can say?

[View From The Top]

You are capable of seeing this from the perspective that the thread is supposed to be about the European Elections, the results for which won't be available until Sunday. Others seem to think that they can draw conclusions about the prospective performances of the parties in a General Election to be held next year, based on a low turnout vote with only the results of the Borough Council results as a basis for their conclusions. That position leads one to conclude that they are either extremely naive, or not really capable of thinking their position through intelligently

 

 

It's quite easy actually as it's perfectly clear that plenty of people have voted "traditionally" in the local elections but cast a protest vote in the European.

 

Still, don't let that worry your tiny mind.

[ThreeSixty]

Everybody knows that the Lib Dems have a stranglehold on Eastleigh and have had for many, many years. Examine the results from each ward and it becomes clear that in many cases, there was potential for them to have lost some of their seats had the Conservative vote mainly, not been compromised by UKIP.

 

What will be far more interesting, will be how the votes pan out in terms of MEPS in the area, particularly because of PR. And of course, it is useful to remind you that in the Parliamentary Bye-election in Eastleigh, had their campaign had another couple of days, UKIP would probably have beaten the Lib-Dem candidate. Who is to say that in a General Election, that the Tory and Labour vote might not vote tactically to unseat the Lib-Dem MP? Borough Councillors are small fry and a very reasonable case could be made that all local Councillors would be Independent in an ideal World. The bigger picure in terms of the Political landscape is the MPs and MEPs

 

I don't disagree but UKIP were confident of securing a few seats in Eastleigh.

[Clapham Saint]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-blames-london-election-performance-on-difficulty-appealing-to-the-educated-and-cultured-9423200.html

 

Lol

 

While Nigel Farage is busy claiming "the Ukip fox is in the Westminster hen-house", party spokesperson Suzanne Evans has uttered a sound bite UKIP would probably rather forget.

 

Asked to explain the party's relatively poor performance in London on Radio 4, Evans said they had difficulty appealing to the "educated, cultured and young."

[Wes Tender]

It's quite easy actually as it's perfectly clear that plenty of people have voted "traditionally" in the local elections but cast a protest vote in the European.

 

Still, don't let that worry your tiny mind.

 

Your tiny mind doesn't seem to have realised that the point you have just made, is the point that I just made.

 

It's those who on the basis of Borough Council elections attempt to project the UKIP vote forward to the General Election, express surprise that UKIP didn't win anything in Easleigh, believe that nothing has changed, or don't acknowledge that UKIP can now count themselves amongst the political hierarchy who you ought to aim your bile at.

[Whitey Grandad]

It's quite easy actually as it's perfectly clear that plenty of people have voted "traditionally" in the local elections but cast a protest vote in the European.

 

Still, don't let that worry your tiny mind.

The local elections are also seen as a protest vote.

[View From The Top]

The local elections are also seen as a protest vote.

 

To some, yes. Those who I've spoken to today certainly seem to have, in the main, voted differently in the 2 seperate elections, perhaps as as high as 5-1-1 voting traditionl/protest, traditional/traditional or protest/protest.

 

Older ages seem to have gone UKIP as protest and the youngsters seem to have gone Green.

 

It's certainly made for healthy debate with the students.

[Wes Tender]

I don't disagree but UKIP were confident of securing a few seats in Eastleigh.

 

I have known the political landscape in Eastleigh for over 45 years and am not that surprised that they held on to their seats. They are very well organised. What would UKIP realistically have said? "We really don't expect to win anything in Eastleigh?

 

The Lib-Dems every Parliamentary Election, say the exact same thing; Labour cannot win in Eastleigh, it is a two horse race between (insert name of their candidate) and the Tory. They said as much in the Bye-Election and nearly lost the seat to UKIP. If they say the same thing next year, they will look ridiculous. They must be worried stiff that instead of voting along traditional party lines, a substantial number of voters might vote tactically to unseat them.

[buctootim]

Here are some interesting predictions and analysis for the seats gained / lost across Europe (not just UK).

 

 

 

More information and charts:

http://albertonardelli.tumblr.com/post/86303987115/the-final-eu-election-polls-in-6-charts

http://www.electio2014.eu/pollsandscenarios/polls

http://news.electio2014.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/PollWatch2014-tables-20-May-2014.pdf

http://www.parties-and-elections.eu/eu.html

http://www.votewatch.eu/

[View From The Top]

Crikey. The tories and Libs are taking a right kicking.

[pap]

Crikey. The tories and Libs are taking a right kicking.

 

Libs getting whacked here. Check out this graph. # of seats.

 

[Lord Duckhunter]

The election experts on sky and the BBC at the start of their coverage had " par" figures for labour as between 400 & 500 , with a good result as 600. The professor on sky was scathing about their result. Ukip was judged to have had a good night if they got 80. I'll go with the people paid to analyse the data and draw a conclusion for sky and the BBC, than posters on a football forum with an agenda.

 

Long term increasing boots on the ground will benefit ukip in exactly the same way libs did when moving from a handful of MPs in the 70's to where they were prior to coalition.

 

Roll on the earthquake on Sunday.

[solentstars]

The election experts on sky and the BBC at the start of their coverage had " par" figures for labour as between 400 & 500 , with a good result as 600. The professor on sky was scathing about their result. Ukip was judged to have had a good night if they got 80. I'll go with the people paid to analyse the data and draw a conclusion for sky and the BBC, than posters on a football forum with an agenda.

 

Long term increasing boots on the ground will benefit ukip in exactly the same way libs did when moving from a handful of MPs in the 70's to where they were prior to coalition.

 

Roll on the earthquake on Sunday.

 

Lol your the one with the agenda.

Still at this rate you might get one mp in fifty years time.

 

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[Sour Mash]

Still at this rate you might get one mp in fifty years time.

At their current rate of growth? They'll be getting more than that.

[View From The Top]

The election experts on sky and the BBC at the start of their coverage had " par" figures for labour as between 400 & 500 , with a good result as 600. The professor on sky was scathing about their result. Ukip was judged to have had a good night if they got 80. I'll go with the people paid to analyse the data and draw a conclusion for sky and the BBC, than posters on a football forum with an agenda.

 

Long term increasing boots on the ground will benefit ukip in exactly the same way libs did when moving from a handful of MPs in the 70's to where they were prior to coalition.

 

Roll on the earthquake on Sunday.

 

Oh the irony.

[View From The Top]

At their current rate of growth? They'll be getting more than that.

 

I'm willing to wager £10 for charity that after the GE they have no more than 2 MPs. I expect 1 but I'll be generous.

[Lord Duckhunter]

At their current rate of growth? They'll be getting more than that.

 

Lol, amazing isn't it. We have all 3 establishment parties putting up people saying we're now in the era of 4 party politics, we have the BBC and sky saying fantastic set of results from ukip, plus every radio bulletin I've heard. The papers are all reporting a good night for ukip, yet a handful of posters on a football forum claiming otherwise.

 

The London results just go to confirm how out of touch londoners are with the rest of England, but also how well Boris did to actually win there.

[pap]

I'm willing to wager £10 for charity that after the GE they have no more than 2 MPs. I expect 1 but I'll be generous.

 

Are UKIP actually interested in government? I think their main aim is to get a cast-iron referendum on the agenda.

 

Rees-Mogg is already talking about doing a deal with them, but they're laughing it off at the moment and besides, it's not a sentiment that the Conservative party leadership will be happy with.

 

Going to be interesting to see who blinks first.

[Sour Mash]

I'm willing to wager £10 for charity that after the GE they have no more than 2 MPs. I expect 1 but I'll be generous.

I agree with you. I was responding to the other blokes post about one MP in 50 years or something. To come from no-where and have the impact UKIP have in such a short space of time is impressive, regardless of your political persuasion.

[View From The Top]

I agree with you. I was responding to the other blokes post about one MP in 50 years or something. To come from no-where and have the impact UKIP have in such a short space of time is impressive, regardless of your political persuasion.

 

For UKIP I give you the SDP.

[Polaroid Saint]

I love it. So typical of this forum - we cannot even agree what the results mean!

 

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[View From The Top]

Lol, amazing isn't it. We have all 3 establishment parties putting up people saying we're now in the era of 4 party politics, we have the BBC and sky saying fantastic set of results from ukip, plus every radio bulletin I've heard. The papers are all reporting a good night for ukip, yet a handful of posters on a football forum claiming otherwise.

 

The London results just go to confirm how out of touch londoners are with the rest of England, but also how well Boris did to actually win there.

 

Want to show a single post where anyone has said it's anything but a good showing.

 

Off you trot down the pub with your little doggy and bore the locals with tales of how The Peoples Army are at the vanguard of a revolution, there's a good chap.

[View From The Top]

leetstreetfox @fleetstreetfox

UKIP have 145 of 3,263 council seats so far counted - 4.4% of total. BNP managed 6.2% in 2009.#earthquakemyarse

[Sour Mash]

For UKIP I give you the SDP.

Who knows. I think it may prove difficult for history to look back on UKIP and define what is "success" for them. They've made great gains so far.

[Polaroid Saint]

My personal take on UKIPs success is that they appeal to the Lowest Common Denominator and are currently surfing a trend.

 

Anything wildly popular often to become so by appealing to base desires and mob mentality without needing much depth.

 

Personally I put UKIP in the same bracket as Justin Bieber, Crazy Frog, Planking, Neknominate, Tribal Tattoos and asking just what it is the fox says.

 

Just because something is popular doesn't make it good, valuable or useful.

 

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[Sour Mash]

Want to show a single post where anyone has said it's anything but a good showing.

 

leetstreetfox @fleetstreetfox

UKIP have 145 of 3,263 council seats so far counted - 4.4% of total. BNP managed 6.2% in 2009.#earthquakemyarse

[View From The Top]

Who knows. I think it may prove difficult for history to look back on UKIP and define what is "success" for them. They've made great gains so far.

 

They've certainly been able to suck in the protest vote and have ran an effective campaign so fair play to them.

[Polaroid Saint]

On other news, my mate WON! She is now the first Labour councilor in her ward for 12 years. Hurrah!

 

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[View From The Top]

 

Simply surprised by the figures. Never knew BNP ever had that many seats. Only a fool would suggest it hasn't been a good result for UKIP, but earthquake? Nah.

[Batman]

I'm surprised they took any labour votes, let alone the number they apparently did

[pap]

For UKIP I give you the SDP.

 

The SDP could rely on established and in some cases, respected politicians, grew out of an existing movement, had seats from the get-go and lasted seven years. They're certainly different from UKIP in that they never came from nowhere.

 

UKIP have done very well to come as far as they have. They've got a more populist appeal, and Sour Mash is right - this is a 21 year old party that is making waves in the establishment. Now I accept that when it comes to Westminster, they'll be smashed against the shoals of FPTP like any smaller party, but in most ways, they're very different from the SDP.

Edited 23 May, 2014 by pap

[View From The Top]

Up here the Labour leader swapped wards because if the threat of UKIP, which p1ssed and awful lot of people off. He got smashed in his new ward, by UKIP. Good stuff.

[View From The Top]

The SDP could rely on established and in some cases, respected politicians, grew out of an existing movement, had seats from the get-go and lasted seven years. They're certainly different from UKIP in that they never came from nowhere.

 

UKIP have done very well to come as far as they have. They've got a more populist appeal, and Sour Mash is right - this is a 21 year old party that is making waves in the establishment. Now I accept that when it comes to Westminster, they'll be smashed against the shoals of FPTP like any smaller party, but in most ways, they're very different from the DP.

 

I don't disagree. UKIP have found themselves in the right place at the right time and hopefully it will shake up the Westminster bubble. Don't forget that I'm also anti EU.

[pap]

I don't disagree. UKIP have found themselves in the right place at the right time and hopefully it will shake up the Westminster bubble. Don't forget that I'm also anti EU.

 

Think it needs it; more than that, actually think we need long term electoral reform and a big discussion on what the state should constitute.

 

I shudder to think at the cost of ideological vandalism whenever the majority pendulum swings the other way. The country shouldn't be used as a plaything to test political theory, which is sadly what happens each time a new bunch is returned.

[solentstars]

Sdp has good policys and alot of support and were not a one issue party playing on negatively and still did not make a breakthrough.

 

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Edited 23 May, 2014 by solentstars

[Wes Tender]

Lol your the one with the agenda.

Still at this rate you might get one mp in fifty years time.

 

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They were within handful of votes of beating the Lib Dems in the Eastleigh bye-election. In the previous by-election when Eastleigh elected their first Lib-Dem MP following the death of Stephen Milligan, a certain Nigel Farage made his first attempt to stand as a candidate in Eastleigh and there are rumours that he might stand here next year. Thornton isn't a particularly good MP and tried to smear UKIP in the run up to these elections, got their facts wrong and had to apologise, so not much better with the truth than his predecessor. But you reckon that if Farage stood in Eastligh, he wouldn't beat Thornton?

 

Your comment that you don't think UKIP will get an MP into Parliament within 50 years is sheer comedy gold, even by your usual standards.

[Batman]

Sdp has good policys and alot of support and were not a one issue party playing on negatively and still did not make a breakthrough.

 

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negativity, says who?

[DuncanRG]

Everybody knows that the Lib Dems have a stranglehold on Eastleigh and have had for many, many years. Examine the results from each ward and it becomes clear that in many cases, there was potential for them to have lost some of their seats had the Conservative vote mainly, not been compromised by UKIP.

 

God, I wouldn't say that. The Lib Dems only won the parliamentary by-election with a huge postal vote campaign. If I remember correctly Ukip would have won if postal votes didn't count.

 

we have the BBC and sky saying fantastic set of results from ukip, plus every radio bulletin I've heard. The papers are all reporting a good night for ukip, yet a handful of posters on a football forum claiming otherwise.

 

Remind me, do you trust establishment media or not?

 

negativity, says who?

 

Eurocrats running our country, immigrants free to take our jobs and establishment out to get us for saying so. It's barking about problems, as good protest parties do, instead of presenting a positive alternative which could improve the country, as good opposition parties do.

 

The other parties are equally guilty in some regards, because they're attacking Ukip instead of presenting ideas of their own. I'm glad Labour is starting to turn things round and build a coherent policy programme, but no major party relies on division and resentment quite like Ukip does.

 

In other news, I backed a winner for the first time yesterday. The Greens took Sheffield Central and it's a rather nice feeling.

Edited 23 May, 2014 by DuncanRG

[buctootim]

Farage stood for election as an MEP again yesterday. He has said he doesnt want to reform it, he wants to withdraw. Continuing to stand and draw the MEP's salary is just as hypocritical and unprincipled as any other party. He'd garner more respect if he withdrew as an MEP and spent the next year producing a credible manifesto with workable policies.

[Jonnyboy]

Hypo just votes UKIP cos he wants Cortese out of the country.

[solentstars]

Well folks one good thing ukip did was destroy the BNP voter base and I suspect the 2 BNP euro meps will lose there seats on Sunday.

 

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