pap Posted 21 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 21 May, 2014 How's that single message smear going? I don't ever remember slavishly arguing against the Lib Dems. It is amusing that "the party of in" could get wiped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Went to A&E & it was full of bloody immigrants, looking sinister in their white coats and blue dresses too ,THATS WHY I GOING TO VOTE UKIP BECAUSE I FAILED IN LIFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 21 May, 2014 Went to A&E & it was full of bloody immigrants, looking sinister in their white coats and blue dresses too ,THATS WHY I GOING TO VOTE UKIP BECAUSE I FAILED IN LIFE Fantastic pro-EU case you've put together there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 21 May, 2014 Share Posted 21 May, 2014 I don't ever remember slavishly arguing against the Lib Dems. It is amusing that "the party of in" could get wiped out. Great isn't it. After the next election the party of PR will only owe any semblance of influence to the FPTP system they so despise, and unelected lords they want to get rid of. LOL The best thing to come out of the coalition is people have seen right through the lib/dumbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 UKIP leader Nigel Farage has predicted "an earthquake" in politics if his party wins the European elections. I thought the official UKIP policy stance was that earthquakes are caused by gay marriage. :)i yearn for the days when we had a seriouse political party like the monster raving looney party but sadly ukip has feeled the gap and hasten the partys demise. still have fun people despite who ever you vote for today or those who could not be bothered to make the effort has you got important things to do like make the tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Great isn't it. After the next election the party of PR will only owe any semblance of influence to the FPTP system they so despise, and unelected lords they want to get rid of. LOL The best thing to come out of the coalition is people have seen right through the lib/dumbs. Ha, I voted for them in 2010, if you can believe it. I wrote this in 2011; haven't changed my opinion. http://frigsociety.com/2011/05/10/where-next-for-the-liberal-democrats/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Just been to vote. Struck by the amount of parties that seemingly stand for independence from EU. I thought UKIP were the only choice. Also, pretty surprised by my choice. There really isn't a great deal of choice, I can understand why there are such levels of disillusionment at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 (edited) Not surprised we've had a major recession and these groups from the far lright and left always thrive and use scapegoats like immigrants on the right and big business bankers on the left.hence the rise of front national and golden dawn and that ilk in times of major recession s .thank god are economy's are now interlocked to make the threat of war against each other remote. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Edited 22 May, 2014 by solentstars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 It amuses me greatly that people who consider themselves 'left wing' or 'independent thinkers' are voting UKIP. A party that whole-heatedly supports TTIP! FFS, do some research people! Anyway, vote how you want, of course, and enjoy your right to do so, it should be an interesting outcome. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Voted UKIP in the euros and conservatives in the local election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dellboypete Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Just been to vote. Struck by the amount of parties that seemingly stand for independence from EU. I thought UKIP were the only choice. Also, pretty surprised by my choice. There really isn't a great deal of choice, I can understand why there are such levels of disillusionment at the moment. Same here - there were 20 candidates on our list including some I was unaware of: English Democrats - I'm English, NOT British, NOT EUropean! (note the double capitals for EU - as on the voting sheet) Liberty Great Britain - Faithful to tradition, revolutionary in outlook. The Roman Party.AVE - no idea what this one is all about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 It amuses me greatly that people who consider themselves 'left wing' or 'independent thinkers' are voting UKIP. A party that whole-heatedly supports TTIP! FFS, do some research people! Anyway, vote how you want, of course, and enjoy your right to do so, it should be an interesting outcome. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk What is TTIP and what is the connection between independent thinking and left wing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Same here - there were 20 candidates on our list including some I was unaware of: English Democrats - I'm English, NOT British, NOT EUropean! (note the double capitals for EU - as on the voting sheet) Liberty Great Britain - Faithful to tradition, revolutionary in outlook. The Roman Party.AVE - no idea what this one is all about. Yeah had them, as well as: An Independence from Europe Party - "UK Independence now" Harmony Party - "Harmony Party Zero-Immigration, More Jobs, Anti-Globalization" National Liberal Party - True Liberalism - "National Liberal Party – Self-determination for all!" (can't tell at a glance whether they are anti-EU, but lots of talk of self-determination) Also, NO2EU - "Yes to workers' rights", though I knew about this one as Pap has mentioned them several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Christ, even the Christian Peoples Alliance (who were also on my ticket) advocate a referendum, and currently would side with a "out" vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Also, NO2EU - "Yes to workers' rights", though I knew about this one as Pap has mentioned them several times. Indeed I have, and they got my vote. I have no expectation of them garnering enough support to get any seats, even under PR. However, I'm really not onboard with the EU project. I have a measure of sympathy with those that say that transferring power to Brussels or Berlin is treason. It certainly would have been 100 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 (edited) Not seen a single poster in any of the windows or placards for any party around where I live.suppose people got more important things to do. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Edited 22 May, 2014 by solentstars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Not seen a single poster for any party around where I live.suppose people got more important things to do. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Sort your tapatalk signatures out, solentstars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Not surprised we've had a major recession and these groups from the far lright and left always thrive and use scapegoats like immigrants on the right and big business bankers on the left.hence the rise of front national and golden dawn and that ilk in times of major recession s .thank god are economy's are now interlocked to make the threat of war against each other remote. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Who are the groups from the far right and left that are going to thrive in these elections? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Indeed I have, and they got my vote. I have no expectation of them garnering enough support to get any seats, even under PR. However, I'm really not onboard with the EU project. I have a measure of sympathy with those that say that transferring power to Brussels or Berlin is treason. It certainly would have been 100 years ago. You would probably find it funny who I voted for, given some of our previous exchanges. I certainly do not subscribe to the treason notion. 100 years ago maybe, but a lot has gone on in those 100 years that has changed the landscape drastically. Ignoring what has happened in that time is just silly. I get not everyone is enamoured with the EU, I think we as a country need to talk about it properly (which for me is not the UKIP way), and yes have a referendum on it. I would still be on the EU side, just. I don't like all of it, but I still believe we net gain from it. I'm not convinced that immigration is the problem we are told it is (i.e. wages, healthcare pressures etc.), I'm actually of the opinion the country benefits from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 You would probably find it funny who I voted for, given some of our previous exchanges. I certainly do not subscribe to the treason notion. 100 years ago maybe, but a lot has gone on in those 100 years that has changed the landscape drastically. Ignoring what has happened in that time is just silly. I get not everyone is enamoured with the EU, I think we as a country need to talk about it properly (which for me is not the UKIP way), and yes have a referendum on it. I would still be on the EU side, just. I don't like all of it, but I still believe we net gain from it. I'm not convinced that immigration is the problem we are told it is (i.e. wages, healthcare pressures etc.), I'm actually of the opinion the country benefits from it. Would it surprise you to learn that many of the people that helped establish the EU were former Nazis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Good post kelvin.hope rather than negative reasons. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 The TTIP is the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. It aims to give increase free trade and 'open the boarders' to big business. It also comes packaged with a whole load of 'rights' for corps that mean they can avoid local legislation. This means your rights as a British citizen can be superseded by the TTIP. Anyone even slightly invested in social justice, or independently minded, should be abhorred by the propositions in the TTIP. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Would it surprise you to learn that many of the people that helped establish the EU were former Nazis? What on earth is that supposed to mean Pap?!? Or are you trying to invoke Godwin's law early in the day, so you can get on and do something more useful!? ;-) Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solentstars Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 [h=3]Winston Churchill: calling for a United States of Europe[/h]Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister (1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a 'United States of Europe'. Following the Second World War, he was convinced that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Would it surprise you to learn that many of the people that helped establish the EU were former Nazis? No, mostly because I'm aware of it already. But, also it stands to reason. The Nazis pretty much took over every aspect of Germany. Therefore, the majority (not all, but most) people who were educated to a high, or in any kind of administrative/bureaucratic position would have been party of the Nazi umbrella. It would have been impossible to wipe Germany of all people to have had any association with the Nazi and simultaneously rebuild a new society with all the institutions that go along with it. So yes, department heads, politicians, doctors, lawyers, teachers, prominent people in all the various walks of any society would have indeed had a fair share of former Nazis. I don't really see the point you are trying make Paps, it's pretty obvious really. A big country of millions of people can't go from being a One-Party State to having no-one once associated with said party overnight. Like it or not, some part of the founding of ECSC (along with other reasons) was to interlock countries within Europe, tying them financially to make wars, like the two devastating World Wars (the things that wouldn't be taken into account with your "100 years ago that would be treaason" b******s) that happened in the first half of last century less likely. In many ways, along with other bodies it has done this well. For it to have any success, of course it was going to have to involve Germany, so yes, of course it was going to involve former Nazis. Hardly an earth shattering revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 The TTIP is the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. It aims to give increase free trade and 'open the boarders' to big business. It also comes packaged with a whole load of 'rights' for corps that mean they can avoid local legislation. This means your rights as a British citizen can be superseded by the TTIP. Anyone even slightly invested in social justice, or independently minded, should be abhorred by the propositions in the TTIP. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Tell the Greeks, the Spanish and the Italians about social justice now that the Euro has effectively waved any hope they had of using the exchange rates to generate recovery for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Tell the Greeks, the Spanish and the Italians about social justice now that the Euro has effectively waved any hope they had of using the exchange rates to generate recovery for them. That's part of my point Sergei. The TTIP would only make things worse for those countries and others. Whilst all the PR and posturing concerns the movement of humans (immigration) the real meat n potatoes is the movement of money (trade agreements). Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 The TTIP is the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. It aims to give increase free trade and 'open the boarders' to big business. It also comes packaged with a whole load of 'rights' for corps that mean they can avoid local legislation. This means your rights as a British citizen can be superseded by the TTIP. Anyone even slightly invested in social justice, or independently minded, should be abhorred by the propositions in the TTIP. Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk It's scary that it will allow corporations to sue govts in private courts if that govt impedes it's enterprise. Long story short - bye bye NHS. Can't for the life of me work out why UKIP aren't screaming from the rooftops about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 [h=3]Winston Churchill: calling for a United States of Europe[/h]Winston Churchill, a former army officer, war reporter and British Prime Minister (1940-45 and 1951-55), was one of the first to call for the creation of a 'United States of Europe'. Following the Second World War, he was convinced that only a united Europe could guarantee peace. His aim was to eliminate the European ills of nationalism and war-mongering once and for all. Didn't Churchill oppose the NHS being funded from taxation and want an insurance based scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polaroid Saint Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Didn't Churchill oppose the NHS being funded from taxation and want an insurance based scheme? The same Churchill that gassed the Kurds? Or is this the Churchill who gave up his parliamentary commission to go and fight in the trenches? Just want to know 'which' Churchill we are talking about! ;-) Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 (edited) That's part of my point Sergei. The TTIP would only make things worse for those countries and others. Whilst all the PR and posturing concerns the movement of humans (immigration) the real meat n potatoes is the movement of money (trade agreements). Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk Not really. Trade agreements tend to be liberating, facilitating wealth creation and innovation. Capitalism has taken far more people out of poverty than socialism can ever dream of. Edited 22 May, 2014 by Sergei Gotsmanov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Has someone really put their time into producing that Some young journalist at Huff Post HQ terrified of the disgusting normal, bigoted, masses going out to vote UKIP, probably! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 The same Churchill that gassed the Kurds? Or is this the Churchill who gave up his parliamentary commission to go and fight in the trenches? Just want to know 'which' Churchill we are talking about! ;-) Complex character. Not sure whether he did more harm than good over the long term. He was the only one of Asquith's group that was happy about the war in 1914. "Winston alone remained buoyant". He started the blockade of Germany immediately, held in place until well after the war, which was eventually a key mechanism in getting the Germans to sign up to Versailles. On the other hand, he did call for the starvation blockade to be lifted in 1919, although that was arguably more to do with not wanting Germany to fall prey to Bolshevism in its destitution. As others have said in different threads, the Nazis could have been stopped when remilitarising the Rhineland, so in that sense, it's a huge shame that he wasn't listened to earlier. That said, he did terrible deals for Britain and the world during the war. It's not surprising Churchill coined the term "iron curtain"; he was responsible for giving most of it away to Stalin. Britain started the war as first power and lost the Empire. In that sense, he's one of the most disastrous PMs we've ever had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Complex character. Not sure whether he did more harm than good over the long term. He was the only one of Asquith's group that was happy about the war in 1914. "Winston alone remained buoyant". He started the blockade of Germany immediately, held in place until well after the war, which was eventually a key mechanism in getting the Germans to sign up to Versailles. On the other hand, he did call for the starvation blockade to be lifted in 1919, although that was arguably more to do with not wanting Germany to fall prey to Bolshevism in its destitution. As others have said in different threads, the Nazis could have been stopped when remilitarising the Rhineland, so in that sense, it's a huge shame that he wasn't listened to earlier. That said, he did terrible deals for Britain and the world during the war. It's not surprising Churchill coined the term "iron curtain"; he was responsible for giving most of it away to Stalin. Britain started the war as first power and lost the Empire. In that sense, he's one of the most disastrous PMs we've ever had. Exactly, he was wrong about some things and right about others. A EUSSR, is the wrong thing, even if people quote Churchill to back up their nutty agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Exactly, he was wrong about some things and right about others. A EUSSR, is the wrong thing, even if people quote Churchill to back up their nutty agenda. You literally swallow whatever bullsh*t they trot out don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 On a related note, anyone got any guesses on what turnout will be? Suzanne Moore will be out of a job if it bucks the trend, I reckon:- http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/21/never-mind-ukip-electorate-anger-alienated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 On a related note, anyone got any guesses on what turnout will be? Suzanne Moore will be out of a job if it bucks the trend, I reckon:- http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/21/never-mind-ukip-electorate-anger-alienated Can't see it being very high. Rarely is for EU/local elections, well elections in general now. What was your point re: Nazis earlier? I see you have been distracted arguing over structural engineering most of the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 A few election predictions from Telegraph columnist Janet Daley Turnout will be much higher than usual for either European or local council elections. This has, in effect, become a referendum on the EU and so has caught the imagination of a greater proportion of the population than a normal (yawn) EU parliamentary election. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/janetdaley/100272641/my-completely-unscientific-prediction-of-todays-elections/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 I've voted in the same polling station the past 15 years and today was the busiest I've seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 It's been pi sing it down in the Midlands. Turnout won't pass 40%, probably nowhere near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 22 May, 2014 I've voted in the same polling station the past 15 years and today was the busiest I've seen it. I went twice. It was my eldest daughter's first ever vote, so I drove her and her mum down later. Quiet at 11:45 but chocka at teatime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 It's been pi sing it down in the Midlands. Turnout won't pass 40%, probably nowhere near. We've just walked up to ours in Stafford and it was hammering down and the station quiet. I did enquire if they'd been busy and they did say that it had been busier than they expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twiggy Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Turn out at my local polling station - one that covers uni halls and includes around 2500 ish students - was awful. Very poor turn out when I went around midday - hopefuly more now. On another note... Roman Empire Party anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Lots of UKIP voters on this forum…why am I not surprised… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 When are the European results declared? do we have to wait until every country has voted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 When are the European results declared? do we have to wait until every country has voted? Yep, it's like Eurovision. They do a video link to each one and some dolly bird or boyband ****** gives our vote results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlakeySFC Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Any chance of a poll to see how many UKIP morons are on this forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 When are the European results declared? do we have to wait until every country has voted? Sunday night. Timetable is a nightmare for cleggy. It'll be a leak,leak, leak of bad news instead of one big bang. Some councils declare tonight, the rest tomorrow and then EU results Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 Sunday night. Timetable is a nightmare for cleggy. It'll be a leak,leak, leak of bad news instead of one big bang. Some councils declare tonight, the rest tomorrow and then EU results Sunday. Ta. I went to vote at 9pm in the village hall and it was busy. Car park packed, queue to vote. Really surprising since a lot of residents are retired and would mostly vote earlier in the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 22 May, 2014 Share Posted 22 May, 2014 I was genuinely shocked by how busy my polling station was. Some jobs worth wouldn't let me take the dog in, so I tied him up outside with orders to growl at any leftie looking voters arriving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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