Jump to content

European Elections 2014


pap

Recommended Posts

AHH, I've nearly thrown up my breakfast.

 

Listening to the Today programme and up popped that Tory Buffoon Ken Clarke. The blokes in complete denial about the EU and people's thoughts on it. Didn't think it could get any worse, then up pops Tony ****ing Blair, giving us his wisdom on the EU. I just wish those 2 clowns would go canvassing together in Newark, cause we'll defo have a ukip mp then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AHH, I've nearly thrown up my breakfast.

 

Listening to the Today programme and up popped that Tory Buffoon Ken Clarke. The blokes in complete denial about the EU and people's thoughts on it. Didn't think it could get any worse, then up pops Tony ****ing Blair, giving us his wisdom on the EU. I just wish those 2 clowns would go canvassing together in Newark, cause we'll defo have a ukip mp then.

Except, they reported that support among the general public for staying in the EU is now higher than support for leaving and Clarke did rightly point out that only a third of the people who voted supported UKIP and they were only a third of the electorate (= approx 1 in 10)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And the point that they support popular views, well that is what successful parties usually do, that 's why they're popular and people vote for them.

 

See Nick Clegg and tuition fees

 

The fact that several neo-Nazi parties made gains in Europe doesn't have much bearing on whether the UKIP vote was or wan't a mid-term protest vote against the Government over here. UKIP isn't an extremist party (much as the left-leaning establishment would like to label it as such) and those that are extremist like the BNP, did poorly over here. As you say, UKIP have certainly benefited from the three main parties attempting to demonise them, and they will benefit still further if they attempt to ignore the support that UKIP has garnered by dismissing it (as you do) as some mid-term protest vote blip.

 

I've previously said I expect them to gain some MPs at the next election. I'm not denying they have a core support, but what they also have is a bandwagon the masses jumped on through a masterstroke of electioneering.

 

UKIP spent their entire election campaign debating the issues that concerned the voting public, not attempting to be anti-establishment. .

 

Sorry Wes

 

I suggest you go to 11:10 of this clip and hear Farage say it himself. "They (the establishment in his own words) haven't tamed me yet"

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b043b2rs/question-time-08052014

 

 

And if you yourself did vote UKIP then you joined Nigel Farage's "People's Army" as he says himself at 4:26 here

 

 

 

Need any more examples? Pretending they were anti-establishment is exactly what they did. That's how powerful a good election campaign, a charismatic leader in touch with the public and skilled rhetoric can be. If Nigel Farage's hamster died he could convince people into thinking that was the EU's fault as well.

 

Like I said, all UKIP do is support anything popular regardless of whether it'll work or not. They played a blinder with this election along with the current state of the EU falling wonderfully into their hands. However UKIP aren't the long-term saviours of UK politics you're hoping they are going to be.

 

UKIP will either fizzle out, or they'll get found out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

However UKIP aren't the long-term saviours of UK politics you're hoping they are going to be.

 

UKIP will either fizzle out, or they'll get found out.

 

My stance has been consistent throughout. I've said on more than one occasion that the sole purpose of UKIP was to convey a much more Euro-sceptic position than the other three parties a vehicle for disenchanted voters who felt that the other parties did not represent their views on Europe specifically. In particular, as I've also stated, their success in the Euro Elections had delivered the kick up the backsides of the three traditional main parties who have broken promises to hold a referendum on our membership over the past few governments. Historical precedent tells us that if they could weasel out of it again, they would. Now they will have to take measures to convince the electorate that they mean business on that and the other issues emanating from Brussels that have given UKIP their power base, or face the consequences at the General Election.

 

I have also stated that had either the Brown Government or the Cameron/Clegg government held a referendum during their tenure's, then UKIP would have faded away by now.

 

So quite how you conclude that I'm hoping that they will become long-term saviours of UK politics, I don't know. I'm a Conservative who voted tactically in the European Elections, like many others. Apart from the usefulness of bringing the European question to the forefront of British politics, they have also done a pretty useful hatchet job on the Lib-Dems, which is a bonus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My stance has been consistent throughout. I've said on more than one occasion that the sole purpose of UKIP was to convey a much more Euro-sceptic position than the other three parties a vehicle for disenchanted voters who felt that the other parties did not represent their views on Europe specifically. In particular, as I've also stated, their success in the Euro Elections had delivered the kick up the backsides of the three traditional main parties who have broken promises to hold a referendum on our membership over the past few governments. Historical precedent tells us that if they could weasel out of it again, they would. Now they will have to take measures to convince the electorate that they mean business on that and the other issues emanating from Brussels that have given UKIP their power base, or face the consequences at the General Election.

 

I have also stated that had either the Brown Government or the Cameron/Clegg government held a referendum during their tenure's, then UKIP would have faded away by now.

 

So quite how you conclude that I'm hoping that they will become long-term saviours of UK politics, I don't know. I'm a Conservative who voted tactically in the European Elections, like many others. Apart from the usefulness of bringing the European question to the forefront of British politics, they have also done a pretty useful hatchet job on the Lib-Dems, which is a bonus.

 

A fair post and I probably read too much into your comment about the Euro election result being a lot more than just a protest vote.

 

I will maintain they'd have never won the election without the protest vote because they hoovered it up entirely and in the long-run they'll be battling with the Lib-Dems and possibly Greens for 3rd place, who will all head towards similar voting figures. Looking at the results I also think UKIP stole roughly the same amount of votes off the Tories and Labour.

 

People think that Labour are certs to win the next election but I don't think they are electable on their own. It's just a vision of Miliband and Balls spending 5 years coming up with social-class pops at the Tories whilst the economy collapses behind them. My guess is a Con-Lab coalition with Ed taking on the tea-boy role, as Cameron's recent 'stand up to the EU' stance will do just enough.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not bothered about all this ukip hysteria seeing that 30 million plus stayed at home ,more than than voted and did not bother to vote for any party in the council and euro elections..,come the general election people will vote on their own economic circumstances rather than protest and if ukip have to talk about there policies which even farage said about there "last manifesto being the biggest load of rubbish and disowned it". if he goes down the route of paying for healthcare and a massive taxcut for the very richest on a flat tax rate..and scrapping other social policy's the media will have a field day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting article concerning the founder of UKIP - worth a minute or two of your time

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/05/27/ukip-nigel-farage-alan-sked_n_5396888.html?1401200121

 

Nope, not allowed. No one is allowed to say anything nasty about UKIP. It isn't fair.

 

What does he know anyway, it's obviously a stitch up by them people in London that went to school.

 

Pah, school, I never went to one of them, and I turned out all right.

 

Tell me what to say next please Nigel. I love you Nigel. Drink beer with me please Nigel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope, not allowed. No one is allowed to say anything nasty about UKIP. It isn't fair.

 

What does he know anyway, it's obviously a stitch up by them people in London that went to school.

 

Pah, school, I never went to one of them, and I turned out all right.

 

Tell me what to say next please Nigel. I love you Nigel. Drink beer with me please Nigel.

almost sound a little agitated by them

all parties have nutters following them

labour give a lot of time to the very racist dianne abbot

dont they have ex BNP members following them also???

Link to comment
Share on other sites

British jobs for British workers.

 

RACISTS!!!!!!!!

 

did not know that Romania joined the EU in 2007?

how come blair and co are not branded racists for keeping their numbers coming in under control then

but when UKIP want to do so, he is some sort of NAZI lunatic???

Edited by Batman
Link to comment
Share on other sites

almost sound a little agitated by them

all parties have nutters following them

labour give a lot of time to the very racist dianne abbot

dont they have ex BNP members following them also???

 

Not agitated, I just hate them. Havn't exactly hidden that, or made much of a secret of it.

 

Well done you on picking up on it though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not agitated, I just hate them. Havn't exactly hidden that, or made much of a secret of it.

 

Well done you on picking up on it though.

 

the things you hate them for no doubt exist in your own party of choice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

almost sound a little agitated by them

all parties have nutters following them

labour give a lot of time to the very racist dianne abbot

dont they have ex BNP members following them also???

 

You would of course have realised that Farage is the 'follower' of the man who set up UKIP? Of course you would - you read the article.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RACISTS!!!!!!!!

 

did not know that Romania joined the EU in 2007?

how come blair and co are not branded racists for keeping their numbers coming in under control then

but when UKIP want to do so, he is some sort of NAZI lunatic???

 

Roumania was under accessionary terms on free access to labour markets up until the 1st january of this year I believe. They could be in most countries of the EU but didn't have the right to work.

Edited by Window Cleaner
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But they are different right?

 

I've also said plenty of times I dislike all parties. But, UKIP's hypocrisy is astounding. As you have pointed out, despite all their whaling and posturing, they are no different.

they dont have to be different, they just have to appeal. And they seem to be at the mo and they are making an impression.

a year ago, no one would dare think they would get a seat in westminster. now people are asking will they get 5 or 10?

 

even if they dont, they are making a difference to their cause

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they dont have to be different, they just have to appeal. And they seem to be at the mo and they are making an impression.

a year ago, no one would dare think they would get a seat in westminster. now people are asking will they get 5 or 10?

 

even if they dont, they are making a difference to their cause

 

I've never denied that.

 

I'm willing to admit, through gritted teeth, that there is a possibility that this round of elections could be a good thing. UKIP and other Anti-EU/Establishment parties across Europe may well act as a wake up call.

 

I've said before I don't love everything about the EU in its present state, and would like to see a lot of changes made to it. Hopefully, the pretty loud message that has been sent out by voters across Europe is taken on board.

 

I still however, do not want us to leave. I also disagree that the issue of EU immigration is anywhere near as big a deal as it is made out to be. I think, overall, we and most other nations are at a net gain of EU membership. There are plenty of positives that come out of it, that are easily swept under the carpet when people want to whip up the immigration scapegoat argument. Why look up, at the people who do cost the country billions, when we could look down at those who possibly take a litte - 'coz well, they speak funny, and do things a bit different, and come from a funny sounding place. Didn't Dracula come from there? I wouldn't want them living near me, or speaking their funny talk on the train.

 

Apparently, I'm an "EU Nutter" for this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think he's a bit upset at UKIP's election success, they'll always be a few like that.

 

Again, I've hardly kept that quiet have I.

 

Yep, I am upset. I thought we, as a country, we better than voting for a party who's main message is blame the immigrants for this country's problems.

 

No slight of hand going on there. Don't blame me and my rich mates. Nope, it's the foreigners it is.

 

Yep, you're right, that upsets me. Congrats on saying something I've been saying for weeks. Genius you lad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, I've hardly kept that quiet have I.

 

Yep, I am upset. I thought we, as a country, we better than voting for a party who's main message is blame the immigrants for this country's problems.

 

No slight of hand going on there. Don't blame me and my rich mates. Nope, it's the foreigners it is.

 

Yep, you're right, that upsets me. Congrats on saying something I've been saying for weeks. Genius you lad.

you should be upset by the power houses and well oiled political machines that are labour and conservative. Who both have huge national papers on their side

they have completely and utterly failed to argue UKIP's points. instead, their tactics have helped make them even more popular

Link to comment
Share on other sites

you should be upset by the power houses and well oiled political machines that are labour and conservative. Who both have huge national papers on their side

they have completely and utterly failed to argue UKIP's points. instead, their tactics have helped make them even more popular

 

:mcinnes:

 

Yep, I couldn't possibly be upset by more than one thing.

 

As I said, I have a pretty severe dislike for all the parties. That includes Labour and Tories. I've been plenty critical of both in the past.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:mcinnes:

 

Yep, I couldn't possibly be upset by more than one thing.

 

As I said, I have a pretty severe dislike for all the parties. That includes Labour and Tories. I've been plenty critical of both in the past.

who do you like??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's worth pointing out UKIP's vote share would as gone up a fair bit, and would have got another two MEPs if it wasn't for the fake UKIP party at the top of the ballot fooling a lot of people in every region.

 

When you look at the way a lot of towns/cities in particular in the south have been divided so much by northern African immigration, couple that with high unemployment and an awful Hollande government, it's not surprising Front National did so well in France.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know if this has been covered further back in the thread, and I may risk looking a little naive here, but there is something about UKIP's recent success in the Euro elections that is bothering me...

 

UKIP basically campaigned on a single issue - that of exiting the EU and limiting immigration. Farage himself has been extremely critical of the EU as a political organisation in the past, claiming it is a bloated, undemocratic beast that is not fit for purpose and drains Britain's resources rather than boosting our economy. He claims that too many of the people in power in Brussels are just corrupt fat-cats with their snouts in the trough and no democratic mandate to be in their respective roles. The very existence of his party is based on the notion that Britain should extricate itself from this behemoth and focus on supporting its own people.

 

Why, then, does this party even bother to put forward candidates for election to the EU parliament? And why would people vote for them to participate in the workings of an organisation whose very existence is an affront to them? Farage is just as guilty of skimming from the EU as those he criticizes. The voting record of his MEPs in the EU parliament is agonisingly poor - case in point: Farage sits on the EU fisheries committee and in all the years he has done so he has only ever bothered to turn up to one meeting out of 48. He is just another fat-cat crony, pandering to bankers and city traders and taking a huge salary and expenses from the EU.

 

Why would anybody vote for such a blatant hypocrite?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nope. That's not allowed Bexy. He's better than Clegg Brown & Cameron don't you know. You're just a sheep listening to the people that went to school (path, where did that get anyone, Nige is much better than that lot, he was born to German Migrants and went to public school.

 

But no, definitely isn't a hypocrite. Nah, he drinks pints, just like me.

 

So what if he employs his wife (unlike those other nasty nepotistic parties employing family members, boooo! He's different, don't ya know?!) as a secretary (when he said no one in UKIP would do that, but sssh, don't look at what we did say, it's probably the Romanians fault anyway), and says it's stupid other parties submit to audits to ensure they don't take the p**s out of EU allowances.

 

He's like me, innit? People's army, against the liblabcon EUSSR, and all the other crap cliches we trott out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, other people do it, so why shouldn't the party that scream how they are different from the others not :rolleyes:

 

So Farage specifically said he was different from other leader with regards to spending his EU allowance? Or is it more likely that he was referring to his manner, how he has had a proper job and how he joined politics because he was passionate about an issue when he spoke about being different from the other leaders?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

****ing scandalous, £30 million sent abroad to foreign brats and despite "Call me Dave" saying its wrong, there's not a damn thing we can do about it. Labour banging on about pensioners having to choose between heating or eating, perhaps that £30mil could top up our pensioners income. Pensioners who in some cases fought so that these eu kids receiving child benefit didn't grow up under the Nazi jackboot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not an expert but I thought he worked at a metal exchange. My point was he is different from the other leaders because he isn't a career politician.

i thought a real job would have been a metal worker rather than another product of the city

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bexy people have answered that point a dozen times on this very thread. Read.

 

Forgive my laziness. I've been trying to avoid the forum altogether for the last week or so thanks to the hysterical nonsense about the board/Poch/Lallana/Shaw etc... and I really don't fancy trawling through ten pages of a political thread, because they always descend into petty name-calling and I have better things to do with my time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A fair post and I probably read too much into your comment about the Euro election result being a lot more than just a protest vote.

 

I will maintain they'd have never won the election without the protest vote because they hoovered it up entirely and in the long-run they'll be battling with the Lib-Dems and possibly Greens for 3rd place, who will all head towards similar voting figures. Looking at the results I also think UKIP stole roughly the same amount of votes off the Tories and Labour.

 

People think that Labour are certs to win the next election but I don't think they are electable on their own. It's just a vision of Miliband and Balls spending 5 years coming up with social-class pops at the Tories whilst the economy collapses behind them. My guess is a Con-Lab coalition with Ed taking on the tea-boy role, as Cameron's recent 'stand up to the EU' stance will do just enough.

 

Con-Lab coalition - not in a million years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Con-Lab coalition - not in a million years.

 

Brilliant.

 

A Con - Lab coalition government with her majesty's opposition consisting of twelve Lib Dem MPs, three Democratic Unionists, two SNPs, whatsername from the Green Party and Dennis Skinner.

 

At least they'd have a lot of room on the benches on that side.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brilliant.

 

A Con - Lab coalition government with her majesty's opposition consisting of twelve Lib Dem MPs, three Democratic Unionists, two SNPs, whatsername from the Green Party and Dennis Skinner.

 

At least they'd have a lot of room on the benches on that side.

 

12 Lib Dems? Nick Clegg would bite your arm off for that!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alleged election intimidation in East London:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/local-elections/10861289/Support-Tower-Hamlets-mayor-or-risk-riots-says-advisor.html

 

Sinn Fein have been employing this tactic for 30 years in Northern Ireland. With great success too.

 

WOW. That is true tribal politics right there, democracy by violence, corruption and intimidation, but not in Afganistan, Pakistan etc, in London, London.

 

If they want to behave like savages, like their leader certainly does, just let them destroy tower hamlets, its a dump.

 

It will simply fuel the fire that is gaining momentum, the British people will take their country back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It will simply fuel the fire that is gaining momentum, the British people will take their country back.

 

As your location is Trujillo Peru I would hope thats tongue in cheek and not hypocrisy - unless of course the Peruvians are coming round to burn you out later.

Edited by buctootim
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...