Hodgey Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 I think it is the most effective way we can possibly play. Firstly keeping possession obviously means that the opposition aren't attacking, taking huge pressure off the defence and allowing control of the pace of the game (I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that we don't actually conceed many chances). It's that second point that is key, I don't actually think that we look to win with attacking possession football with probing through balls etc (frankly you need world class players to do that nowadays as tactically in the Prem defences are tight), our philosophy seems to be as soon as the opposition get it, try and win the ball high up the pitch when defensively they are out of position - it's that which leads to most of our chances/pressure. Doing that for 90 minutes without long periods of slowing the game down with possession play will lead to high fatigue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 The more you keep the ball, the less likely the opposition are to score. This obviously doesnt work in every game. What would you rather we do, let teams come at us and then try and take half chances or counter attacks to win? I'd rather play entertaining football and lose, than play on the back foot, hoof it upfield and win 1-0. Football is an entertainment that I want to enjoy watching. It really isnt ALL about winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 1 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 1 May, 2014 The more you keep the ball, the less likely the opposition are to score. This obviously doesnt work in every game. What would you rather we do, let teams come at us and then try and take half chances or counter attacks to win? I'd rather play entertaining football and lose, than play on the back foot, hoof it upfield and win 1-0. Football is an entertainment that I want to enjoy watching. It really isnt ALL about winning. Why is the alternative always extreme? Look at Liverpool, Chelsea and Atletico Madrid - they dont focus on possesion football, but are all succesful and play attractive football. This thread isnt us doing things wrong, more to recongnise the potential alternatives. Long ball / West Ham isnt the alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Chelsea play attractive football!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 1 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Chelsea play attractive football!?! I think they mix it up - better than most in the prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 I think they mix it up - better than most in the prem. They definitely mix it up but they are very rigid in principle and there isn't much fluidity as to how they play. If we had even better players than we do now I am sure we'd be more successful - I do not believe the way we play is an issue in any respect whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 1 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 1 May, 2014 They definitely mix it up but they are very rigid in principle and there isn't much fluidity as to how they play. If we had even better players than we do now I am sure we'd be more successful - I do not believe the way we play is an issue in any respect whatsoever. You might be right. Who am I to say? Perceived wisdom is that good teams keep the ball, and bad teams do not. But should we be looking at a different metric? Im sure there is a correlation between keeping the ball and winning the game, but Villa beat us having just 22% of the possession, Chelsea beat Liverpool with just 27% and Palace beat Everton last week with 30% Random stat - In the A-League, the team with more possession loses 57 per cent of the time. One thing that has surprised me - Discipline. I think only Cardiff and Liverpool have a better record and we have 0 red cards all season. I thought our style would have generated a few more yellows and reds so that stat is refreshing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 You might be right. Who am I to say? Perceived wisdom is that good teams keep the ball, and bad teams do not. But should we be looking at a different metric? Im sure there is a correlation between keeping the ball and winning the game, but Villa beat us having just 22% of the possession, Chelsea beat Liverpool with just 27% and Palace beat Everton last week with 30% Random stat - In the A-League, the team with more possession loses 57 per cent of the time. One thing that has surprised me - Discipline. I think only Cardiff and Liverpool have a better record and we have 0 red cards all season. I thought our style would have generated a few more yellows and reds so that stat is refreshing heres an idea, when you come out with these 'stats' - can you provide a link or a reference please. Then we can see that you are not making this up... otherwise people might think that you are just full of **** (I wouldnt know why they would think that..) so how about starting with the above stat please? (cue no response) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 1 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 1 May, 2014 heres an idea, when you come out with these 'stats' - can you provide a link or a reference please. Then we can see that you are not making this up... otherwise people might think that you are just full of **** (I wouldnt know why they would think that..) so how about starting with the above stat please? (cue no response) Here you go mate - its mentioned towards the bottom of the article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/10793482/Do-football-possession-statistics-indicate-which-team-will-win-Not-necessarily.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 The passing game reminds me of occasions in Div 1 at The Dell when the small pitch meant that some Saints' sides were very adept at fast close passing. The current team amazes at times as to how effective they are at keeping possession BUT turning that into winning more games needs a big step forward as shown by the league table. We are 8th, having won 8 games at home, drawn 5 and lost 5. If we had won those 5 drawn games we would only be one place higher in the table. If we had won every home game, all 18 so far, we would still be behind Liverpool. If we had turned 7 defeats, home or away, into wins, we would still only be level with Arsenal in 4th but that is the scale of improvement needed to move to the Champions' League places. It's a huge step upwards, which may make it understandable if some of the players, or the manager, think it unlikely that even if we do better next year we won't reach that level unless there are more real quality players added to those we already have. Another one or two from the Academy might reach that level but it takes time so the ball really is in the hands of the Board to show if they do have the ambition that Cortese had spoken about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Here you go mate - its mentioned towards the bottom of the article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/10793482/Do-football-possession-statistics-indicate-which-team-will-win-Not-necessarily.html unbelieveable - when you said the A League, I stupidly thought you meant the league that we are in, otherwise what would be the relevance? But you mean the Sunday league Australian League. Otherwise you could have quoted the following from the article In this season’s Premier League, the team with more possession has won 55.3 per cent of games. In the Champions League, the figure is 66.7 per cent. That would seem to indicate a strong correlation between keeping the ball and winning the game. I have highlighted something for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KelvinsRightGlove Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Every year idiots base new opinions on the results of cup football. I get that the media do it to sell papers etc., but so many people fall for it. Spanish teams are rubbish now, German teams are great. Spanish teams are back, German teams are rubbish. Possession football is amazing, possession football is over. The biggest reason for getting knocked out of a cup? Having an off night. Chelsea didn't play as they can. Through bottle, form or fitness, they failed. Why does an inquisition have to be held every time? They won the tournament when they were nowhere near the best team in it, as did Liverpool. That's how cup football works. Barcelona have slipped because they have a poor defence, Messi and Valdes have had injury problems and a couple of players have aged, i.e. Xavi and Puyol. Yet they still went to a cup final, a CL quarter and challenged for the title. Bayern came up against a great Madrid side, but that first leg could have gone either way. Teams have always set up to go and defend. Saints had it in L1 FFS. You just have to use the ball well and beat it. A couple of teams fail to score and progress and rather than praise the defending of the opposition, we have idiots questioning the entire notion of 'keeping the ball'. Measure it over a whole season and you'll find actually being able to play football is somewhat of a positive. Chelsea were undone by that penalty. Ridiculously fine lines but you could see heads go down then as the away goals mean so much. They very nearly went 2-1 up and I'm sure they'd then have won. Which makes it utterly redundant to every season have these generalised threads based on single matches. Once again Adrian, this. You might be right. Who am I to say? Perceived wisdom is that good teams keep the ball, and bad teams do not. But should we be looking at a different metric? Im sure there is a correlation between keeping the ball and winning the game, but Villa beat us having just 22% of the possession, Chelsea beat Liverpool with just 27% and Palace beat Everton last week with 30% Random stat - In the A-League, the team with more possession loses 57 per cent of the time. One thing that has surprised me - Discipline. I think only Cardiff and Liverpool have a better record and we have 0 red cards all season. I thought our style would have generated a few more yellows and reds so that stat is refreshing Nice line. Here you go mate - its mentioned towards the bottom of the article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/champions-league/10793482/Do-football-possession-statistics-indicate-which-team-will-win-Not-necessarily.html First line of that article: Perceived wisdom is that good teams keep the ball, and bad teams do not. But should we be looking at a different metric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Australian A-league used as an example......ok I thought I´ve heard it all, but not until now I´m 100% sure. Thanks mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 You might be right. Who am I to say? Perceived wisdom is that good teams keep the ball, and bad teams do not. But should we be looking at a different metric? Im sure there is a correlation between keeping the ball and winning the game, but Villa beat us having just 22% of the possession, Chelsea beat Liverpool with just 27% and Palace beat Everton last week with 30% Random stat - In the A-League, the team with more possession loses 57 per cent of the time. One thing that has surprised me - Discipline. I think only Cardiff and Liverpool have a better record and we have 0 red cards all season. I thought our style would have generated a few more yellows and reds so that stat is refreshing Possession is respected because it gives you a foothold in the game. Where you have possession and what you do with it is more important but it is hard to find a way to measure that. In general stats in football are over-rated because they are so circumstantial and focussing on one thing in particular can be misleading. It would appear to be a contradiction to learn that we have second most possession yet play the most long balls. But anyone who watches Saints know we use possession as a form of defence and when we get pressured we tend to hit it long (and we also play a lot of diagonals). For me I wouldn't want the way we play to change. I think we have a wonderful style and aggression in our game. It has its risks but I don't think there is one style of play in the modern game that doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Australian A-league used as an example......ok I thought I´ve heard it all, but not until now I´m 100% sure. Thanks mate. It of course fails to add that Brisbane who top the possession stats in the A league are also the most successful A league side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Once again Adrian, this. Nice line. First line of that article: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Once again Adrian, this. Nice line. First line of that article: :lol: Nice work, he hasnt done too bad fishing on here, but proves himself an idiot, to think I even replied to this moron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 :lol: Nice work, he hasnt done too bad fishing on here, but proves himself an idiot, to think I even replied to this moron Completely embarrassed himself. Hence no comment from him. This thread should be bumped every day!:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon Saint Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Once again Adrian, this. Nice line. First line of that article: :lol: Cringe mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 (edited) To be fair, it must be difficult to come up with original content on so many different club's forums. #martyrtothecause To get back on topic, I think it's all about possession. Pass to your team mate. If you repeat this action you will not lose. Have you ever played football Glasgow? Edited 1 May, 2014 by Goatboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 May, 2014 Share Posted 2 May, 2014 :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 2 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 May, 2014 Can we change the thread title The importance of an obsession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 2 May, 2014 Share Posted 2 May, 2014 Oh dear. Another Glasgow fail. This is becoming too much of a regular occurence to not be on purpose. But the question is, why is he trying to make himself look like a massive bell-end, cos we already know her is anyway. Confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuser888 Posted 2 May, 2014 Share Posted 2 May, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/may/01/the-question-is-this-the-end-for-tiki-taka-football Oh dear. Another Glasgow fail. This is becoming too much of a regular occurence to not be on purpose. But the question is, why is he trying to make himself look like a massive bell-end, cos we already know her is anyway. Confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 May, 2014 Share Posted 2 May, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/may/01/the-question-is-this-the-end-for-tiki-taka-football In answer to the article in question, no, no its not. But if you train hard enough and are organised enough most employed 'tactics' are hard to beat. Tika taka to Barca was not much of an evolution, much harder on Bayern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 2 May, 2014 Share Posted 2 May, 2014 Can we change the thread title The importance of an obsession Have to say that while not a big fan of Turkish and Barry, who seem to spout negativity for negativity's sake, at least they wouldn't have come up with this (and their absence on this thread leaves you out in the cold). This is just prize turkey material, a bit like your Gazaniga thread before the City game. Oh dear GS, everyone's laughing at you now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 2 May, 2014 Author Share Posted 2 May, 2014 Have to say that while not a big fan of Turkish and Barry, who seem to spout negativity for negativity's sake, at least they wouldn't have come up with this (and their absence on this thread leaves you out in the cold). This is just prize turkey material, a bit like your Gazaniga thread before the City game. Oh dear GS, everyone's laughing at you now.... Oh Noo(dles) please dont laugh, please be my friend. Please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 2 May, 2014 Share Posted 2 May, 2014 The importance of desperation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 2 May, 2014 Share Posted 2 May, 2014 Oh Noo(dles) please dont laugh, please be my friend. Please I assume that's how you got all your other friends. Or by giving them suck jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Saint Posted 3 May, 2014 Share Posted 3 May, 2014 A league = more possession equals a win 43% of the time epl = more possession equals a win 55% of the time cl = more possession equals a win 67% of the time so in summary the better teams you play, the more important possession is. Well f.ck me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 3 May, 2014 Share Posted 3 May, 2014 (edited) as the OP mentioned it ..I'll say, I have never been a RM fan, but was very impressed by their performance against ...what is clearly a very good BM side....(Top and 20 points clear in Bundesliga) But BM (like other teams with high % possession stats)... fell foul of the obvious, in that when they do lose possession they are easily open to a counter attack... with a long ball up to a fast striker... who runs at (what are sometimes)... slower-moving defenders, and then only has the keeper to beat. Although, only one of the RM's goals came from that route, they were caught out a number of times. Although I've enjoyed following what has been one of the most-satisfying seasons to watch - (since Lawrie McMenemy's teams 30-odd years ago) one of the most frustrating game I've watched this season.. was the home game v. Aston Villa. 77% Saints possession, with 20 shots against 6.....yet we lost 2-3. We were victims of what the boxing fans call " the sucker punch". The " total possession " tactic denies the opposition the ball, but unless there are players who have the speed and guile to take the final ball into the box ...and not need 3 touches before shooting... we will not overcome the problem. My Player of the season is Jay Rodrigues ...(not because I don't value Lambert or Lallana .or half a dozen other " regulars ") but for me... ... the sight of a lone striker outpacing defenders and delivering a class finish is still a high point in any game. Edited 3 May, 2014 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
positivepete Posted 3 May, 2014 Share Posted 3 May, 2014 It of course fails to add that Brisbane who top the possession stats in the A league are also the most successful A league side! Just to back up my point about Brisbane http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/may/01/a-league-grand-final-tactical-preview Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 3 May, 2014 Share Posted 3 May, 2014 Just to back up my point about Brisbane http://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2014/may/01/a-league-grand-final-tactical-preview That's ok, Glagow will be plagiarising it by the end of the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 3 May, 2014 Share Posted 3 May, 2014 Oh dear. Another Glasgow fail. This is becoming too much of a regular occurence to not be on purpose. But the question is, why is he trying to make himself look like a massive bell-end, cos we already know her is anyway. Confusing. Maybe he's going to leak false information that he is in fact Delldays in disguise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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