Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Did anyone watch BM vs RM last night? If you did youll have seen BM dominate possession, but lose (sound familiar) BM had 2/3 of the possession last night and lost 4-0, its opened a real debate about the importance of possesion. Guardiola is getting a lot of stick in Germany over his style of play. Football has developed very quickly and is the Barcelona style that we have copied now old hat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 I don't think we've copied Barcelona's style at all personally. I'm quite happy with the way we play - we're open on the counter but we play as the protagonists and I like watching us play. We don't have the players to play on the counter all the time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Did anyone watch BM vs RM last night? If you did youll have seen BM dominate possession, but lose (sound familiar) BM had 2/3 of the possession last night and lost 4-0, its opened a real debate about the importance of possesion. Guardiola is getting a lot of stick in Germany over his style of play. Football has developed very quickly and is the Barcelona style that we have copied now old hat? You can win with with either. Bayern's problem was they forgot to defend corners, which then meant the pressure was off Real. Real could 'park the bus' and then counter attack, with no onus on them to force the game. If Bayern had scored early to level I reckon they would have passed Real to death. City favourites to win Premier League and their style is to dominate possession - Liverpool to finish 2nd based on fast counter attacking. Both styles can bring success... Our problem - our strikers are not prolific (goals vs. chances) and our midfielders don't score. The style of football is great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 You can win with with either. Bayern's problem was they forgot to defend corners, which then meant the pressure was off Real. Real could 'park the bus' and then counter attack, with no onus on them to force the game. If Bayern had scored early to level I reckon they would have passed Real to death. City favourites to win Premier League and their style is to dominate possession - Liverpool to finish 2nd based on fast counter attacking. Both styles can bring success... Our problem - our strikers are not prolific (goals vs. chances) and our midfielders don't score. The style of football is great. The style of football is great to watch, i cant argue with that. But is it effective (for us)? If you can see its not ideally suited for our current squad why couldnt mopo? I admire mopo's stubbornness i do, but a career win % of 30% , suggests its not the most effective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 The style of football is great to watch, i cant argue with that. But is it effective (for us)? If you can see its not ideally suited for our current squad why couldnt mopo? I admire mopo's stubbornness i do, but a career win % of 30% , suggests its not the most effective? Think would we still be in 8th if we played more direct. You are only as good as the players and at the moment 8th place is about right for this squad. Do we really think we should be finishing above Man U, Spurs and Everton, the next three teams above us? Regarding 30% stat, so what? It is not as if he has been managing Barcelona and City. Espanyol (a small team in Spain) and Saints (a small team in England). What would you expect, 50% and titles...? 8th is what it is, irrelevant of win %. Flip it around - his loss % with us is very good... It might not get much better than this for us (given the 7 teams above will likely spend more and sell less than us in close season). Enjoy it while it lasts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We are top if possession table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We are top if possession table. And Swansea 2nd.... Palace pressumably bottom? Just shows........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We play our way, and I enjoy watching it. I would, however, like our players to sometimes take on a few longer range potshots, as I think at times we resemble Arsenal in trying to nudge the ball into the net after a flowing 30 pass move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboy Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 And Swansea 2nd.... Palace pressumably bottom? Just shows........ it was all going so well untill you reverted to type ........ ho hum ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We play our way, and I enjoy watching it. I would, however, like our players to sometimes take on a few longer range potshots, as I think at times we resemble Arsenal in trying to nudge the ball into the net after a flowing 30 pass move. I sort of agree - but every time the crowd shout 'shoot' when Cork, Schneiderlin or Wanyama have the ball, they always smack it high and wide... A midfielder who doesn't lose his head 25 yards out would be good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 I sort of agree - but every time the crowd shout 'shoot' when Cork, Schneiderlin or Wanyama have the ball, they always smack it high and wide... A midfielder who doesn't lose his head 25 yards out would be good... Perhaps they're aiming for the helmets in the crowd that shout it? I know I would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Perhaps they're aiming for the helmets in the crowd that shout it? I know I would. This. Definitely this. Same people who shout 'get it forward, Saints' because we passed it ten times in a row without 'sticking it in the mixer'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 I sort of agree - but every time the crowd shout 'shoot' when Cork, Schneiderlin or Wanyama have the ball, they always smack it high and wide... A midfielder who doesn't lose his head 25 yards out would be good... Wanyama scored a number of goals for Celtic, a few of the from distance. He is capable.... Just doesnt get encouragement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Zzzzz... good try Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Some seem to think the alternative to possesion is long ball and long shots Its not.... Look at AM vs Chelsea just now. Happy to concede possesion, but when they get it back BANG attack in numbers and pace (ala Liverpool) we are too much sideways, sideways All fart and no......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We don't score because we have no strikers and Lambert plays too deep, it's nothing to do with possession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Some seem to think the alternative to possesion is long ball and long shots Its not.... Look at AM vs Chelsea just now. Happy to concede possesion, but when they get it back BANG attack in numbers and pace (ala Liverpool) we are too much sideways, sideways All fart and no......... nothing to do with being one of the best sides on the planet at the mo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We don't score because we have no strikers and Lambert plays too deep, it's nothing to do with possession. But doesnt lambert play too deep because we are obsessed with possession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 The style of football is great to watch, i cant argue with that. But is it effective (for us)? If you can see its not ideally suited for our current squad why couldnt mopo? I admire mopo's stubbornness i do, but a career win % of 30% , suggests its not the most effective? out of interest, if you put jose morinho or alex ferguson in charge of our side at the beginning if the season, where do you think we would have finished with the same set of players and suffering the same set of injuries. significantly better than 8th? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We don't score because we have no strikers and Lambert plays too deep, it's nothing to do with possession. Sort of this really, we have no real focal point up top right now, Lambert sits deep and Gallagher isnt a PL option yet. J Rod gives us the legs to get in behind. Possession is obviously very important. To the more astute its obvious that if you have the ball then its infinately harder for the other team to score, obviously you need to be wary of direct or quick counter attacks but all in all it enables a team to probe, tire the opponent and refresh. Im happy with the way we play, most realise we are a mobile front man short (what Ossie should have been) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 out of interest, if you put jose morinho or alex ferguson in charge of our side at the beginning if the season, where do you think we would have finished with the same set of players and suffering the same set of injuries. significantly better than 8th? Given we have had one of the lowest amount of injuries in the prem this season and given upto 15 of our players/ manager are wanted by clubs above us, a better challenge to Everton or 8th + a cup final. Finishing 8th was always my very minimum expectation, is it unresonable to want more from the club you love? Im not even saying possession / mopo style is wrong, im just opening a debate about the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastor Patrón Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 But doesnt lambert play too deep because we are obsessed with possession? No, imo he plays deliberately deep because he doesn't have the confidence in himself to score as many as he did. He doesn't seem to have that killer edge and usually seems to opt to try and set someone else up instead of shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 i think the injuries had a significant effect bearing in mind they were key positions with limited cover (boruc and lovren) that had big influence on our points haul for a big chunk of games. add to the fact that osvaldo didnt work out i feel we would be have been hard pressed to finish higher than 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Pep Guardiola has won 16 of the last 22 tournaments his teams has played in with that style. I´ll take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 a career win % of 30% , suggests its not the most effective? 37.93% for Saints 32.92% for Espanyol 34.25% overall. Wrong again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Pep Guardiola has won 16 of the last 22 tournaments his teams has played in with that style. I´ll take that. That proves it was effective. Is it anymore? The masters of possesion Barcelona have struggled this season (by their standards) and Bayern were destroyed last night. The top two possession sides in the prem league are 8th and 12th in the table Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 That proves it was effective. Is it anymore? The masters of possesion Barcelona have struggled this season (by their standards) and Bayern were destroyed last night. The top two possession sides in the prem league are 8th and 12th in the table BM won the league in february. I´ll take that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 I thought possession and passing stats might be similar. But we are top on possession, only 9th on passing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 All top 8 teams are in the top 9 of possession......seems like it might matter a bit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igsey Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 37.93% for Saints 32.92% for Espanyol 34.25% overall. Wrong again. Nah, coz when you're trying to prove a point you bend statistics to work in your favour by 'rounding', like how Kellogg's once claimed Frosted Mini Wheats improved attentiveness in children by 20%, when they were actually rounding up from 11%. Happens all the time in science when somebody sees profitability in a new material or drug or something. So Pochettino's actually had a 25% win rate when rounding to the nearest multiple of 25. What a terrible manager, sack him and get Allardyce in! He knows how to get balls into the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrensup Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 BM won the league in february. I´ll take that. Yes but wih a Dortmund not being the side they normally are. Wouldn't have been so early if they were playing to the standard of last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 BM won the league in february. I´ll take that. Would do for me. Might it be that both styles are good if you have world class players...? I think it takes more than one semi-final to prove that a style of football which has resulted in Champions League, World Cup and Euro wins for the last few years is now out of date. Good to watch also. And given we ain't winning league titles any time soon, playing good football seems pretty important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olallana Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Would do for me. Might it be that both styles are good if you have world class players...? I think it takes more than one semi-final to prove that a style of football which has resulted in Champions League, World Cup and Euro wins for the last few years is now out of date. Good to watch also. And given we ain't winning league titles any time soon, playing good football seems pretty important to me. In a way playing good football is more important in our position imo. If you´re winning things you can always get away with not so pretty football but what is the meaning finishing 8th-9th with boring football.....wont attract fans to the stadium in the same way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 In a way playing good football is more important in our position imo. If you´re winning things you can always get away with not so pretty football but what is the meaning finishing 8th-9th with boring football.....wont attract fans to the stadium in the same way... Havent our average attendance dropped this season? For every one that finds our football all pretty, there is maybe one that finds it frustrating and ineffective? The term all fart and no sh1t does get used alot on here this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Havent our average attendance dropped this season? For every one that finds our football all pretty, there is maybe one that finds it frustrating and ineffective? The term all fart and no sh1t does get used alot on here this season. Yes. By you! We used to be no fart and no sh!t... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatboy Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 AF and NS is an Alpinism I believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Havent our average attendance dropped this season? For every one that finds our football all pretty, there is maybe one that finds it frustrating and ineffective? The term all fart and no sh1t does get used alot on here this season. Attendances are down (marginally). Do you think it is style of football, with people disgusted by the passing game? Or do you think it might correspond with an extended period of a squeeze on expendable household income? Is that a fair question? Myself I have heard more people say 'it is too expensive' than 'I can't stand the style of football'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Yes. By you! We used to be no fart and no sh!t... We got promoted from L1 and the championship on constipation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Attendances are down (marginally). Do you think it is style of football, with people disgusted by the passing game? Or do you think it might correspond with an extended period of a squeeze on expendable household income? Is that a fair question? Myself I have heard more people say 'it is too expensive' than 'I can't stand the style of football'. Yes youre right here i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 We got promoted from L1 and the championship on constipation? Does this analogy end with the squits being a good run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torrent Of Abuse Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 The term all fart and no sh1t does get used alot on here this season. The solution is probably to buy the players who can deliver the sh1t instead of questioning whether we really need the fart. Get some more agile attacking options will be like slipping someone an enema. Taking away the passing game we deploy now will be like giving someone a packet of diarrhoea medication. You'll just end up with constipation. I think the constipation-diarrhoea analogy is probably all played out now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 30 April, 2014 Author Share Posted 30 April, 2014 The solution is probably to buy the players who can deliver the sh1t instead of questioning whether we really need the fart. Get some more agile attacking options will be like slipping someone an enema. Taking away the passing game we deploy now will be like giving someone a packet of diarrhoea medication. You'll just end up with constipation. I think the constipation-diarrhoea analogy is probably all played out now... Youre talking **** mate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nta786 Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Don't we also have one of the highest long balls percentage in the league? Funny isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 30 April, 2014 Share Posted 30 April, 2014 Bayern have really struggled to pick up points this season, tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noodles34 Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Havent our average attendance dropped this season? For every one that finds our football all pretty, there is maybe one that finds it frustrating and ineffective? The term all fart and no sh1t does get used alot on here this season. This one gets me, just proves what a cretin you are. Blatant trolling about something you have no idea about, you don't go to games, so to judge attendances...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Jeff Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Did anyone watch BM vs RM last night? If you did youll have seen BM dominate possession, but lose (sound familiar) BM had 2/3 of the possession last night and lost 4-0, its opened a real debate about the importance of possesion. Guardiola is getting a lot of stick in Germany over his style of play. Football has developed very quickly and is the Barcelona style that we have copied now old hat? Well, we certainly don't play like Barcelona - perhaps all that not watching Saints has cause you to not understand the way we play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 This. Definitely this. Same people who shout 'get it forward, Saints' because we passed it ten times in a row without 'sticking it in the mixer'... I shout shoot sometimes, but not get it forward. I love it when people attribute things to "the same people that....". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Convict Colony Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 The reason we seem to hold onto the ball so much is that with the whippets we have at our disposal in our midfield/attack J-rod is the only one who can make fast runs off the shoulder for the quick direct ball from midfield (where as liverpool have sturridge, suarez, sterling, coutinho). I am sure someone could find out but that explains that he is probably the player with the most offsides in our team as he is constantly on the shoulder waiting for the quick release ball the rest of the team are trying to feed him (may also explain why he's top scorer). Now add 1 fast striker and 1 fast right attacking midfielder into the mix over the summer and stick adam in the middle and I think we will see significant increase in direct scoring opportunities on the counter attack or from deep positions. Currently if J-rod wasn't free for that quick ball thats when we see the midfield push up and the oppo's defence constrict and have the congested zone at the top of the box making us all frustrated and making it look like we are trying to pass the ball into the net. Oh and we are a tweaked version of Biesla's philosophy which is different from Pep's use of it as we play more vertical balls and crosses and look for quicker transitions into attack (hence everyone piling forward if we clear a corner etc). Here is a good article on Biesla and Poch comparisions - http://eplindex.com/37849/marcelo-bielsas-tactical-influence-mauricio-pochettino-tactics.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorpG Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 I shout shoot sometimes, but not get it forward. I love it when people attribute things to "the same people that....". Of course I am generalising, but based on people sat near me, I reckon I am reasonably safe in my assumption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 1 May, 2014 Share Posted 1 May, 2014 Wouldn't want us to play any other way - it makes even losing bearable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now