Eight-placed finish - what does this mean for us in practice?

[SaintJackoInHurworth]

OK - it could well be all but mathematically confirmed tonight that we will finish eighth, if Newcastle lose to Arsenal. It would leave a situation where we would have to lose every remaining game 6-0 and Newcastle to win every game 6-0 for them to then finish above us.

 

So what does this mean for us in practice? We have already been told that we will have our biggest ever Premier League points tally, but that aside what else will it mean for us?

 

* What will be the financial payout for finishing eighth?

* With Man United only finishing one place higher, what impact might this have upon our ability to hold on to our best players?

* What benefits might it have in terms of our ability to attract signings?

* It places us as the top team outside of the top seven 'big clubs', so as the 'best of the rest' how might this affect how other teams approach games against us in future?

* Might there be any other implications whether positive or negative in finishing eighth?

[Batman]

It will only mean we have progressed quite a bit as a club.

 

nothing else. Will have almost no bearing on keeping shaw IMO

[Glasgow_Saint]

Surely it means an open top bus tour to celebrate finishing 8th?

 

Pitch invasion after the man united game too?

[Window Cleaner]

OK - it could well be all but mathematically confirmed tonight that we will finish eighth, if Newcastle lose to Arsenal. It would leave a situation where we would have to lose every remaining game 6-0 and Newcastle to win every game 6-0 for them to then finish above us.

 

So what does this mean for us in practice? We have already been told that we will have our biggest ever Premier League points tally, but that aside what else will it mean for us?

 

* What will be the financial payout for finishing eighth?

* With Man United only finishing one place higher, what impact might this have upon our ability to hold on to our best players?

* What benefits might it have in terms of our ability to attract signings?

* It places us as the top team outside of the top seven 'big clubs', so as the 'best of the rest' how might this affect how other teams approach games against us in future?

* Might there be any other implications whether positive or negative in finishing eighth?

 

I don't know exactly how accurate this is, gives us an idea of how much each place is worth though.

 

[lifeintheslowlane]

It raises our profile both here and abroad. It makes us commercially an investible brand (or moreso than before) and as a credible option for attracting quality players.

[Batman]

£80m+

 

incredible

[Window Cleaner]

£80m+

 

incredible

 

 

Indeed, when you add on ticket sales for next season and commercial revenues (including a decent shirt sponsorship deal) it's hard to understand some of the piffle spouted by the board of late. We could in theory have reduced out player salary mass to about 50% of revenue.

[Matthew Le God]

It will only mean we have progressed quite a bit as a club.

 

nothing else. Will have almost no bearing on keeping shaw IMO

 

£80m+

 

incredible

 

Clearly not "nothing else" then is it?

 

Had Saints finished 14th again, it would be £13m less than Saints will get for 8th.

 

Turnover in the next accounts for 2013/14 for Saints could be £100m+ for the first time ever.

[iansums]

£80m+

 

incredible

 

£63M for finishing last FFS!!!

[Glasgow_Saint]

It raises our profile both here and abroad. It makes us commercially an investible brand (or moreso than before) and as a credible option for attracting quality players.

 

Nonsense! Finishing 8th gets us a few more £'s nothing more nothing less.

 

Look at the clubs that have finished 8/9th in the last few seasons... WBA, Fulham, Birmingham, WHU, Villa, Portsmouth and Swansea. Means very very little in the grand scheme

[Matthew Le God]

Nonsense! Finishing 8th gets us a few more £'s nothing more nothing less.

 

Look at the clubs that have finished 8/9th in the last few seasons... WBA, Fulham, Birmingham, WHU, Villa, Portsmouth and Swansea. Means very very little in the grand scheme

 

This season is the first of the huge leap in TV money from 2013 to 2016. None of those clubs you listed got remotely close to £82m in TV money for an 8th place finish.

 

Its not merely a few more £'s, its a lot more £'s! Finishing 20th in 2013/14 earns you more from TV money than finishing 1st in 2012/13!!!

 

Plus finishing 8th raises Saints profile for potential sponsors and also should help attract better players than a bottom half finish would.

Edited 28 April, 2014 by Matthew Le God

[iansums]

Nonsense! Finishing 8th gets us a few more £'s nothing more nothing less.

 

Look at the clubs that have finished 8/9th in the last few seasons... WBA, Fulham, Birmingham, WHU, Villa, Portsmouth and Swansea. Means very very little in the grand scheme

 

To be fair we have had a huge amount of publicity this season so our profile has been raised. You would like to think that would help us attract players.

[david in sweden]

Eighth is avery respecatble finish that we rarely bettered in those 27 seasons that we were previously the top division.

 

anyone bothered enough to look at the stats. will see that we " lost" our league placement during Boruc's seven game absence ...and even if we'd had " more balanced results" - we'd be even higher.

 

Boruc (games 1-12)....P.12 W6 D4 L2 (incl.6 clean sheets) goals conceded....8

 

KD / PG together... P.9 W1 D2 L7 (1 clean sheet) goals conceded ...20.

 

since Boruc return....P14 W7 D4 L3 (7 clean sheets). goals conceded ...17

 

yes I know we had his poor Fred Astaire impression at Arsenal ..and that wind-blown effort at Stoke, but by and large, he's our best keeper by a country mile.

 

Taking into account the..."stupid results"...like losing home to Villa when we had 77% possession and 21 shots to 6....and the 0-1 debacle against Cardiff at SMS...and Jay Rods injury hasn't helped either.

 

I agree a lot depends on Pochettino staying, but judging by recent (player) interviews everyone seems to suggest it's " a happy ship." WE look to improve next season.

[Saint Charlie]

Means we have a good team and good Manager but lacked the squad depth over the season to cover injuries in some areas.

 

It means that if we keep the Manager who is top class and most of the best players, whilst adding carefully in 3/4 positions, we could probably push for a top 6 spot seriously next season. Outside perception certainly enhanced by the results and high profile players so should be able to attract some decent ones this summer.

 

Lots of if's, the biggest one being the Manager who is key.

[Miltonaggro]

I don't know exactly how accurate this is, gives us an idea of how much each place is worth though.

 

 

Last year we pocketed £48M so we've almost doubled our revenue - http://www.sportingintelligence.com/2013/05/21/where-the-money-went-premier-league-prize-and-tv-payments-for-2012-13-210501/.

 

It makes Saints a more viable option for inward investment / sponsorship, and if we can keep hold of our manager and bright young team, we in the rare position of being a club that is highly likely to improve as our youngsters gain experience at the top level- meaning that other bright young things may buy into the 'great place to be' ethic. Crucial summer, but whatever happens it's good to be a Saints fan right now!...

[Glasgow_Saint]

To be fair we have had a huge amount of publicity this season so our profile has been raised. You would like to think that would help us attract players.

 

Clubs in general don't have issues attracting players.... The club that pays the most normally wins the transfer irrespective of league position or media coverage.

 

Look at Ramirez and Osvaldo, doubt either had heard of us prior to signing

 

Money talks and 8th gives us a bit more £'s should we decide to push on

[Matthew Le God]

For Saints, if you add that £82.3m TV revenue from 2013/14 to the £24.8m (match day/commercial) revenue from 2012/13, it'll mean a turnover of circa £107.1m for 2013/14.

 

The player wage bill will likely be under 50% of that.

 

Premier League is a license to print money!

[Matthew Le God]

Clubs in general don't have issues attracting players.... The club that pays the most normally wins the transfer irrespective of league position or media coverage.

 

Look at Ramirez and Osvaldo, doubt either had heard of us prior to signing

 

Ramirez signed when we were newly promoted, Osvaldo signed when we'd just finished 14th. An 8th place finish will make it easier to attract a higher level of player as it'll be easier to convince them your ambitions are achievable than if you had just finished 14th. Of course money still comes into it, but a player also would want to know any ambitions are realistic. The leap from believing an 8th place team can move to 6th isn't as hard to make compared to a team leaping from 14th to 6th. Its an easier sell to the player and agents.

 

Money talks and 8th gives us a bit more £'s should we decide to push on

 

Its not a bit more money. Its ALOT more money, for example £13m more than if we finished 14th again.

 

The £82m Saints will get in 2013/14 is £20m more than what Man Utd got last season for winning the league! The 2013 to 2016 TV deal is huge in comparison.

[The Kraken]

I'd like to believe that finishing 8th as opposed to say, 13th or 14th, would give us a bit of a leg up in terms of attracting players to the club.

 

The truth is that it's probably a minor factor compared to the money offered. It does show we're on an upward trajectory, though.

[Glasgow_Saint]

Ramirez signed when we were newly promoted, Osvaldo signed when we'd just finished 14th. An 8th place finish will make it easier to attract a higher level of player as it'll be easier to convince them your ambitions are achievable than if you had just finished 14th. Of course money still comes into it, but a player also would want to know any ambitions are realistic. The leap from believing an 8th place team can move to 6th isn't as hard to make compared to a team leaping from 14th to 6th. Its an easier sell to the player and agents.

 

 

 

Its not a bit more money. Its ALOT more money, for example £13m more than if we finished 14th again.

 

The £82m Saints will get in 2013/14 is £20m more than what Man Utd got last season for winning the league! The 2013 to 2016 TV deal is huge in comparison.

 

Higher level of player? Like who? Who wouldn't have joined us last summer but will now? Osvaldo is/was Italys no. 9 and Ramirez is./was the next big talent.

 

Finishing 8th over 14th makes no difference to a player joining. Players want 1st team football, MONEY + European football. We can offer 2 of these things this summer.... Same as last summer and the summer before

[Matthew Le God]

Higher level of player? Like who? Who wouldn't have joined us last summer but will now? Osvaldo is/was Italys no. 9 and Ramirez is./was the next big talent.

 

Finishing 8th over 14th makes no difference to a player joining. Players want 1st team football, MONEY + European football. We can offer 2 of these things this summer.... Same as last summer and the summer before

 

As I said...

 

The leap from believing an 8th place team can move to 6th isn't as hard to make compared to a team leaping from 14th to 6th. Its an easier sell to the player and agents.

[dronskisaint]

Higher level of player? Like who? Who wouldn't have joined us last summer but will now? Osvaldo is/was Italys no. 9 and Ramirez is./was the next big talent.

 

Finishing 8th over 14th makes no difference to a player joining. Players want 1st team football, MONEY + European football. We can offer 2 of these things this summer.... Same as last summer and the summer before

 

£13 million pounds is a couple, maybe more, of a decent players' wages - we can add to the depth of our squad without impacting on the balance sheet too badly. It's about building quality and retaining our best youth...if we can generate that sort of cash then the way is forward - no?

 

I also agree that MP is a big factor in players staying...I'd like to see Osvaldo off the wage bill at whatever that takes almost but if the extra placing means we can afford over and above that all to the good

 

Our profile is higher through our style of football and the international call-ups...we have at least four more of those than this time last year. Got to give confidence to anyone joining?

[Glasgow_Saint]

As I said...

 

The leap from believing an 8th place team can move to 6th isn't as hard to make compared to a team leaping from 14th to 6th. Its an easier sell to the player and agents.

 

So......... Who wouldn't have joined us last summer but will now?

[The Kraken]

So, £82M in prize money, add on ticket sales, sponsorship etc. (even our meagre shirt deal) and other revenues and we're comfortably over £100M for the season.

 

It kind of puts into perspective why the transfer market has gone crazy and will continue to escalate. 4 or 5 years ago, in League 1, a £30M bid for Luke Shaw was probably more than 1 year's revenue. It was probably close when we were last in the Premier League. An insane amount of money.

 

Now, it would comprise 25% of our typical annual revenue. Still an incredible amount of money, but you'd have to say that the club are in more of a position to resist big money offers. Player power will play a part of course, plus the demands from players for increased wages (which I'm absolutely sure it at the core of so many players going to the press about "ambition of the board"). But, as sad as it is to say it, a £30M bid really doesn't mean as much in the general scheme of things when there are other astronomical sums on offer every season just for staying in the division.

[Deano6]

So......... Who wouldn't have joined us last summer but will now?

 

It's all conjecture, but I honestly believe Danny Welbeck could be tempted to join us next season, should he still want to leave for more first team chances, but wouldn't have last summer.

 

I don't think he will want out now though, with the change in manager.

[trousers]

Finishing 8th is brilliant because it keeps the optimists and (pretend) pessimists on here happy and gloomy in equal measures...

Edited 28 April, 2014 by trousers

[Saint_Tony]

It means there's 7 teams better than is, 12 not quite as good. Room for improvement. In reality it doesn't mean anything until we find out what happens in the summer

[Glasgow_Saint]

It's all conjecture, but I honestly believe Danny Welbeck could be tempted to join us next season, should he still want to leave for more first team chances, but wouldn't have last summer.

 

I don't think he will want out now though, with the change in manager.

 

If Welbeck wanted to leave he'd go to a club playing in europe (Everton or Spurs) ahead of us. If they weren't interested he'd come to us if we pay him more than say Villa, Fulham or Newcastle were prepared too.

 

He wouldn't choose us over let's say Villa simply as we finished 8th rather than 14th.

[KelvinsRightGlove]

It's not 8th that's the achievement IMO. You can get 8th fighting relegation, having a good late run, or being 10th-12th most the season then winning last day. This isn't like 2002/03. We're not top of the **** teams, we're far more bottom of the good teams. We've been amongst a far better group, way above the rest, in the top half all season, competing in just about every game, never getting stuffed, winning possession most weeks, playing good football and improving our players.

 

Pretty good really.

 

This.

[Goatboy]

It's not 8th that's the achievement IMO. You can get 8th fighting relegation, having a good late run, or being 10th-12th most the season then winning last day. This isn't like 2002/03. We're not top of the **** teams, we're far more bottom of the good teams. We've been amongst a far better group, way above the rest, in the top half all season, competing in just about every game, never getting stuffed, winning possession most weeks, playing good football and improving our players.

 

Pretty good really.

Agree

[channonwindmill]

It's not 8th that's the achievement IMO. You can get 8th fighting relegation, having a good late run, or being 10th-12th most the season then winning last day. This isn't like 2002/03. We're not top of the **** teams, we're far more bottom of the good teams. We've been amongst a far better group, way above the rest, in the top half all season, competing in just about every game, never getting stuffed, winning possession most weeks, playing good football and improving our players.

 

Pretty good really.

 

Yep. Well said.

[Toadhall Saint]

It's not 8th that's the achievement IMO. You can get 8th fighting relegation, having a good late run, or being 10th-12th most the season then winning last day. This isn't like 2002/03. We're not top of the **** teams, we're far more bottom of the good teams. We've been amongst a far better group, way above the rest, in the top half all season, competing in just about every game, never getting stuffed, winning possession most weeks, playing good football and improving our players.

 

Pretty good really.

 

Agreed

[rshephard3]

If Welbeck wanted to leave he'd go to a club playing in europe (Everton or Spurs) ahead of us. If they weren't interested he'd come to us if we pay him more than say Villa, Fulham or Newcastle were prepared too.

 

He wouldn't choose us over let's say Villa simply as we finished 8th rather than 14th.

 

Why would he rather play in the Europa league? It's Champions League football that these guys want, not just any old European football. And thus, SFC can offer the same as Everton or Spurs. And I don't think someone like Welbeck will have his door being knocked down with Champs League managers trying to get hold of his services.

[Olallana]

So......... Who wouldn't have joined us last summer but will now?

 

Strange question for someone so itk......just sayin...

[Saint_John]

(1) This article compares the money for winning the FA Cup (total ONLY £3.3m - losers get ONLY £1.6m) with Premier League money (£2.6m difference between 8th & 9th).. http://eyesinthecorner.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/fa-cup-vs-premier-league-prize-money/ (2) I think I read somewhere (correct me if I am wrong) that the payments from the PL are paid in instalments starting in August therefore most transfer deals are late in the window.

[Barry Sanchez]

What does Manchester United finishing 7th have to do with us?

[Whitey Grandad]

(1) This article compares the money for winning the FA Cup (total ONLY £3.3m - losers get ONLY £1.6m) with Premier League money (£2.6m difference between 8th & 9th).. http://eyesinthecorner.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/fa-cup-vs-premier-league-prize-money/ (2) I think I read somewhere (correct me if I am wrong) that the payments from the PL are paid in instalments starting in August therefore most transfer deals are late in the window.

 

Of course, winning the FA Cup could be on top of any place money received.

[Dalek2003]

It's been a belter of a season. Pretty miserable for the Canaries that I know and puts things very much in perspective. Yep, 8th is a fantastic achievement and the money the club gains, if put to good use could see us finish at least 17th next year.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

I think it's a marvellous achievement considering both Swansea and Norwich beat us easily in the transfer market last summer

[Barry Sanchez]

So £82 Million could be invested in players for the push into the Champions League places?

[pap]

I'd like to believe that finishing 8th as opposed to say, 13th or 14th, would give us a bit of a leg up in terms of attracting players to the club.

 

The truth is that it's probably a minor factor compared to the money offered. It does show we're on an upward trajectory, though.

 

Perception is all important. We just about managed the exit velocity to finish last season not looking like relegation fodder. We're now top half, and can sell plans of aiming for Europe with a straight face. Not sure we could have done that from 14th.

[aintforever]

I don't know exactly how accurate this is, gives us an idea of how much each place is worth though.

 

 

The above is why we blew off the FA Cup.

 

8th place is a fine achievement though and good timing to looking at the increase in money.

Edited 28 April, 2014 by aintforever

[Barry Sanchez]

Perception is all important. We just about managed the exit velocity to finish last season not looking like relegation fodder. We're now top half, and can sell plans of aiming for Europe with a straight face. Not sure we could have done that from 14th.

 

Really? Could Newcastle? Is position better than performance? What about Man United?

[K,Billy's supersound]

So......... Who wouldn't have joined us last summer but will now?

 

You tell us.

[The Kraken]

Perception is all important. We just about managed the exit velocity to finish last season not looking like relegation fodder. We're now top half, and can sell plans of aiming for Europe with a straight face. Not sure we could have done that from 14th.

While I think there's certainly some truth to that, I'm minded to wonder how much difference it does actually make. We did, after all, sign Olympics wonderkid Ramirez upon promotion to the PL, then signed Italian international Osvaldo last season off the back of 14th. Wanyama also left European football to come here (and almost went to Cardiff instead, themselves just promoted and on their way back down).

 

Being the richest league in the world, newly promoted teams can very readily sign players on £40K - £50K a week without risking financial implosion. And with other leagues also struggling, that's a massive inducement. Champions League will always be a major attraction, but below that I'm genuinely curious how much difference it makes to players thinking of signing for teams below that but still offering bundles of cash.

[farawaysaint]

Really? Could Newcastle? Is position better than performance? What about Man United?

 

Newcastle were in Europe last year so erm yes.

[Barry Sanchez]

Newcastle were in Europe last year so erm yes.

 

What season this season we are playing now?

[Kingsland Red]

We are now confirmed as occupying the 'best of the rest' position.

Like so many before us, who have subsequently fallen again, we now need to find a way of sustaining this status / passing through FF's glass ceiling .

[trousers]

[rallyboy]

while we picked the wrong time to get relegated re TV money, we haven't half picked the right time to come back!

 

If in August you'd offered me 8th place, Rickie scoring for England, £82M, two players in the PFA team and 2/3 players on the plane to Brazil, I'd have had your arm off - and had you sectioned.

A very good season.

And we dodged the Europa League, the football equivalent of catching VD every other Thursday.