Children Over Five 'Wearing Nappies In Class'

[Spudders]

"A Sky News investigation finds that hundreds of pupils, some as old as 15, are unable to use a toilet on their own at school."

 

 

Now I don't know the ins & outs of toilet training as I've never had children, but I really find it hard to believe that someone as old as 15 could not have worked out for themselves how to go to the toilet at a specific time rather than just randomly in a nappy?

 

 

 

Full story here:

http://news.sky.com/story/1250478/children-over-five-wearing-nappies-in-class

 

Children are still wearing nappies in class after the age of five in hundreds of schools across the country, a Sky News investigation has found.

 

Teachers have reported pupils as old as 15 who have no medical conditions or developmental issues, but who are unable to use the toilet on their own.

 

In what is believed to be the first survey of its kind, Sky News commissioned the National Foundation for Educational Research to ask head teachers and staff in England about their experiences of children coming to schools wearing nappies.

 

Almost one in 10 heads and senior staff who responded said in the past year a child aged between five and seven had worn a nappy to school.

 

The figure was 5% for classroom teachers.

 

Almost one in 20 heads and senior staff said that in the last year a child aged seven to 11 had worn a nappy to school.

 

And 1% of classroom teachers surveyed had experience of older children in nappies.

 

The survey was completed by 602 teachers in primary schools and 561 teachers in secondary schools.

 

The figures suggest that head teachers and senior staff at a substantial number of England's 16,000 primary schools have experience in the past 12 months of at least one pupil above the age of five still wearing nappies.

 

There has been growing evidence in recent years that increasing numbers of children are starting school in nappies.

 

But this is the first research to suggest the problem extends beyond the Reception year.

 

And experts say it is not just pupils from deprived backgrounds who are not being toilet trained, but those who have working parents too busy to address the issue.

 

Anne-Marie Middleton, a deputy head teacher from Dover, says many pupils are too embarrassed to admit they still wear nappies.

 

She said: "We're seeing more and more children wearing nappies. We find that more and more children have an issue with toilet (training) further up the school.

 

Ms Middleton says that the busy lives of parents are often at the root of the problem, with pupils arriving at school without many basic skills including toileting, or being able to use a knife and fork.

 

Janet Marsh runs a programme at a Kent school to try to help pupils toilet train.

 

She said she knew of 14 or 15 year olds without medical problems who still had toilet-training issues.

 

"It's an incredibly serious situation," she said.

 

"There are children who miss 25% of their education in Reception because they're being taken out to be changed. How are they going to catch up?"

 

Asked if teachers are being asked to do too much by expecting them to act as surrogate parents, Michael Gove, Secretary of State for Education, replied: "I do think hard about how much we ask of teachers, because we do ask a lot."

 

Mr Gove said the Government needed to support frontline teachers and listen to their concerns.

[ericofarabia]

We shouldn't be surprised at this, when you think of the amount of Bedwetters on here who probably have to wear nappies as well

[alpine_saint]

My kids have all learned to use the potty and go nappy-free in the summer following their 2nd birthday. So I dont understand 5 year-olds wearning nappies. My fourth kid is not even 2 and he is already telling us when he wants to go to the loo.

 

Having said that, this parental laziness is not a British thing, in fairness. A few years ago I went to a Kindergarten parents evening for my now 10 year old, and there were gasps from some parents when one explained her son was fully potty-trained at 3.

[Halo Stickman]

Kids of today, eh? We might as well p1ss in our best hats

[buctootim]

Not sure the situation is any better or worse than its ever been. My daughter was fully dry by 2.5 but my son continued to wet the bed occasionally till about 7 and even now at 11 if you tickle him / make him laugh enough he will 'pmsl'.

 

Its a typical non story imo. If one head in 20 has experienced a 7-11 year old wearing a nappy in the past year and the average size of a middle school is c350 pupils it means one kid in 7,000 - hardly an epidemic is it?

[hutch]

Not sure the situation is any better or worse than its ever been. My daughter was fully dry by 2.5 but my son continued to wet the bed occasionally till about 7 and even now at 11 if you tickle him / make him laugh enough he will 'pmsl'.

 

Its a typical non story imo. If one head in 20 has experienced a 7-11 year old wearing a nappy in the past year and the average size of a middle school is c350 pupils it means one kid in 7,000 - hardly an epidemic is it?

It may well be al lot less than that as well. The article states in one place "Almost one in 10 heads and senior staff who responded said ..." So replying was optional, and certainly possible that those with something to say would be a lot more likely to respond than those with nothing to say.

 

Another case of a media organisation trying to create news rather than just report it.

[Clapham Saint]

"A Sky News investigation finds that hundreds of pupils, some as old as 15, are unable to use a toilet on their own at school."

 

 

 

The figure was 5% for classroom teachers.

 

 

This is the more shocking revelation!

[Gemmel]

Not sure how old this one is

 

[buctootim]

Not sure how old this one is

 

 

Bit tasteless. Club feet, bandy legs, spade face - clearly a genetic condition.

[31cc]

Jason Puncheon could use one tbf

[Unbelievable Jeff]

My kids have all learned to use the potty and go nappy-free in the summer following their 2nd birthday. So I dont understand 5 year-olds wearning nappies. My fourth kid is not even 2 and he is already telling us when he wants to go to the loo.

 

Having said that, this parental laziness is not a British thing, in fairness. A few years ago I went to a Kindergarten parents evening for my now 10 year old, and there were gasps from some parents when one explained her son was fully potty-trained at 3.

 

You've got 4 kids?! Why the gloomy outlook so much? You can create a proper band with those numbers...

[pap]

I know a lot of people disagree, but this is why I think it's important for the kids to be looked after by a parent in the early years. No-one else has the ownership or vested interest. I'm not entirely sure that having close family members (like grandparents, etc) look after your kid helps.

[alpine_saint]

You've got 4 kids?! Why the gloomy outlook so much?

 

Try permanent exhaustion. I have a fairly responsible job too.

[Big Bad Bob]

I know a lot of people disagree, but this is why I think it's important for the kids to be looked after by a parent in the early years. No-one else has the ownership or vested interest. I'm not entirely sure that having close family members (like grandparents, etc) look after your kid helps.

 

Oh I don't know, my brother-in-law and his girlfriend had a kid that they didn't plan for, basically she found out/realised she was pregnant at 8 months.

 

Anyway they were useless at bringing up their daughter, his idea of teaching her words was to point at things and continually repeat their name so she would say banana, banana, banana etc.

 

She has basically been taught life skills by her grandmother who dotes on her. If not for her I think she would still be in nappies and not able to string a coherent sentence together.

[Clapham Saint]

Oh I don't know, my brother-in-law and his girlfriend had a kid that they didn't plan for, basically she found out/realised she was pregnant at 8 months.

 

Anyway they were useless at bringing up their daughter, his idea of teaching her words was to point at things and continually repeat their name so she would say banana, banana, banana etc.

 

She has basically been taught life skills by her grandmother who dotes on her. If not for her I think she would still be in nappies and not able to string a coherent sentence together.

 

I've heard/read about people not realising until this late (or later) before, but really don't understand how it is possible. Even ignoring the size of the bump, did she not wonder what the squirming and wriggling sensation in her stomach was?

[Big Bad Bob]

I've heard/read about people not realising until this late (or later) before, but really don't understand how it is possible. Even ignoring the size of the bump, did she not wonder what the squirming and wriggling sensation in her stomach was?

 

To be honest she's not the smallest of girls so she didn't really show very much, we thought she'd been putting on a bit of weight due to her drinking and clubbing with her "aunt" 3-4 days a week!!

[Halo Stickman]

I know a lot of people disagree, but this is why I think it's important for the kids to be looked after by a parent in the early years. No-one else has the ownership or vested interest. I'm not entirely sure that having close family members (like grandparents, etc) look after your kid helps.

 

My first son spent a lot of his pre-school years being looked after by his grandmothers, but by the time the second son arrived we’d moved away, so no longer had this option available. By then, however, I was working part-time from home, so was able to spend most of my time looking after the second son myself. Fortunately, now that they are both grown up, it is almost impossible to say which of them is the more messed up

[Barry Sanchez]

I've heard/read about people not realising until this late (or later) before, but really don't understand how it is possible. Even ignoring the size of the bump, did she not wonder what the squirming and wriggling sensation in her stomach was?

 

Its very possible alright.

[Barry Sanchez]

I know a lot of people disagree, but this is why I think it's important for the kids to be looked after by a parent in the early years. No-one else has the ownership or vested interest. I'm not entirely sure that having close family members (like grandparents, etc) look after your kid helps.

 

We are sending our daughter to nursery two days a week for socializing and the other weekdays a mixture of grandparents and working form home, I think a bit of both can not do any harm but in today's World you have to do what you have to do and family members will be playing a far more involved role now its so expensive for childcare and to have have just one breadwinner in the house.

[Clapham Saint]

Its very possible alright.

 

Evidently it is possible. The fact that I don't understand it doesn't make it impossible.

 

I just find it baffling that a woman wouldn't realise until that late.

[buctootim]

Evidently it is possible. The fact that I don't understand it doesn't make it impossible.

 

I just find it baffling that a woman wouldn't realise until that late.

 

I wonder how many cases are genuinely "I didn't know" and how many are "I decided not to tell till it was too late for anyone to get on my case"

[pap]

Oh I don't know, my brother-in-law and his girlfriend had a kid that they didn't plan for, basically she found out/realised she was pregnant at 8 months.

 

Anyway they were useless at bringing up their daughter, his idea of teaching her words was to point at things and continually repeat their name so she would say banana, banana, banana etc.

 

She has basically been taught life skills by her grandmother who dotes on her. If not for her I think she would still be in nappies and not able to string a coherent sentence together.

 

No-one really knows what they're doing with their first. My youngest brother is around 8 years older than my eldest daughter, so I had relatively recent experience with looking after kids, etc.

 

It doesn't really prepare you for full-time parenting.

 

My first son spent a lot of his pre-school years being looked after by his grandmothers, but by the time the second son arrived we’d moved away, so no longer had this option available. By then, however, I was working part-time from home, so was able to spend most of my time looking after the second son myself. Fortunately, now that they are both grown up, it is almost impossible to say which of them is the more messed up

 

Mileage varies with grandparents, as does the experience your kid can have. Very much depends on what else is going on in the family. The biggest worry though is parents not fully taking on their own responsibilities, which happens a f**kton. Other potential dangers are "the prince effect", which normally happens if you've delivered the first (and especially only) grandkid. Major spoiler risk

 

We are sending our daughter to nursery two days a week for socializing and the other weekdays a mixture of grandparents and working form home, I think a bit of both can not do any harm but in today's World you have to do what you have to do and family members will be playing a far more involved role now its so expensive for childcare and to have have just one breadwinner in the house.

 

I think you can get by with a balanced approach, but it still ain't ideal in the early years. I happen to think that the requirement to have two breadwinners per house is crap. I'm not saying it doesn't exist; it clearly does - but I think it's probably to the detriment of society as a whole.

[View From The Top]

I've heard/read about people not realising until this late (or later) before, but really don't understand how it is possible. Even ignoring the size of the bump, did she not wonder what the squirming and wriggling sensation in her stomach was?

 

Happened to someone I know who also happens to be a nurse. She didn't know she was expecting until admitted for abdominal pains. A few hours later her daughter was born!

[Halo Stickman]

Mileage varies with grandparents, as does the experience your kid can have. Very much depends on what else is going on in the family. The biggest worry though is parents not fully taking on their own responsibilities, which happens a f**kton. Other potential dangers are "the prince effect", which normally happens if you've delivered the first (and especially only) grandkid. Major spoiler risk

 

Even my eldest son, who was a first grandchild on both sides of the family, would concur with you regarding 'the prince effect’! As well as his grandparents, he had a lot more exposure to crèches, play-groups etc than his younger brother did. On balance, he’s ended up the more sociable of the two, but I’m not sure whether that has more to do with his early upbringing or that he takes after his mother more than he does me – Mrs Stickman is a lot more sociable than I am (apart from when she’s in one of her stupid moods ).

[Barry Sanchez]

No-one really knows what they're doing with their first. My youngest brother is around 8 years older than my eldest daughter, so I had relatively recent experience with looking after kids, etc.

 

It doesn't really prepare you for full-time parenting.

 

 

 

Mileage varies with grandparents, as does the experience your kid can have. Very much depends on what else is going on in the family. The biggest worry though is parents not fully taking on their own responsibilities, which happens a f**kton. Other potential dangers are "the prince effect", which normally happens if you've delivered the first (and especially only) grandkid. Major spoiler risk

 

 

 

I think you can get by with a balanced approach, but it still ain't ideal in the early years. I happen to think that the requirement to have two breadwinners per house is crap. I'm not saying it doesn't exist; it clearly does - but I think it's probably to the detriment of society as a whole.

 

Big business loved the aftermath of the 2nd World War, women of course would not want to go back to the kitchen so wages in real terms have been split whereas one person could keep a household before now it requires two to do so unless someone is on a lot of money, we could survive on one but not really live.

[Barry Sanchez]

I wonder how many cases are genuinely "I didn't know" and how many are "I decided not to tell till it was too late for anyone to get on my case"

 

Lots, some women still have their periods whilst pregnant, first born babies (rarely afterwards)can grow in the stomach walls without protrusion. Moring sickness can get put down as a hangover or simply not feeling very well.

[bridge too far]

Big business loved the aftermath of the 2nd World War, women of course would not want to go back to the kitchen so wages in real terms have been split whereas one person could keep a household before now it requires two to do so unless someone is on a lot of money, we could survive on one but not really live.

 

And I think there are more reasons Barry. I'm old enough that I had a choice about whether to work once I had my children because, in those days, families generally could manage on a single wage. Then came the Right To Buy phenomenon and suddenly property prices rocketed. It was fine for the likes of my generation who'd already bought houses but for the next generation it required a household to be a two earning unit to afford the astronomical rise in house prices.

 

I feel very sorry for today's young families. It's hard work bringing up a family and both having to work full time, let alone having to deal with the 'well you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford to have one parent at home' lot. Never mind that we need young families to at least replace themselves by having two children in order to pay for us oldies!

[Barry Sanchez]

And I think there are more reasons Barry. I'm old enough that I had a choice about whether to work once I had my children because, in those days, families generally could manage on a single wage. Then came the Right To Buy phenomenon and suddenly property prices rocketed. It was fine for the likes of my generation who'd already bought houses but for the next generation it required a household to be a two earning unit to afford the astronomical rise in house prices.

 

I feel very sorry for today's young families. It's hard work bringing up a family and both having to work full time, let alone having to deal with the 'well you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford to have one parent at home' lot. Never mind that we need young families to at least replace themselves by having two children in order to pay for us oldies!

 

Yes there are many reasons but for me these are the ones that stick out.

[Ludwig]

Try permanent exhaustion. I have a fairly responsible job too.

 

Chief Whinger for the Northern Hemisphere?

[mcjwills]

And I think there are more reasons Barry. I'm old enough that I had a choice about whether to work once I had my children because, in those days, families generally could manage on a single wage. Then came the Right To Buy phenomenon and suddenly property prices rocketed. It was fine for the likes of my generation who'd already bought houses but for the next generation it required a household to be a two earning unit to afford the astronomical rise in house prices.

 

I feel very sorry for today's young families. It's hard work bringing up a family and both having to work full time, let alone having to deal with the 'well you shouldn't have kids if you can't afford to have one parent at home' lot. Never mind that we need young families to at least replace themselves by having two children in order to pay for us oldies!

 

The biggest con ever done was Margaret Thatcher persuading the housewife that it would be best if they went out to work rather than stay at home and look after their children. This resulted in more workers at lower rates of pay, less availability of work, employers could pay lower wages, with right to buy it got rid of councils need to maintain houses and shackled millions to jobs that would prevent them striking. Before then a house cost 3 X one man's wage to but on your first mortgage, now it's nearly eight X one man's wage.

[Halo Stickman]

No-one really knows what they're doing with their first.

 

It was a dark wintry night when the future Mrs Stickman broke the, frankly, rather horrifying news that she was carrying my child. I did what any self-respecting bloke would do in that situation – headed straight for the pub. As fate would have it, cutting a forlorn picture up at the bar was a chap called Clive – he was the only one of my mates who actually had experience of parenthood. Being careful not to give too much away, I waited for an opportune moment before casually asking him how much being a father had changed his life. He looked up from his beer with the countenance of a madman and replied: ‘Change it? It hasn’t changed it – it’s f*cking well ended it!’

[FloridaMarlin]

A friend's wife is a primary school teacher and she's been regaling us with horror stories like this for a while.

 

In her experience, it's nothing to do with busy parents, both out working with little time to train their kids, but more of bad parenting borne of ignorance and deprivation.

 

She has alerted social services on numerous occasions and found the parents are already on some sort of watch list or known to them.

 

They tend to be the sort of parent who drop their kids off at the school gates with a can of lager in one hand, and really can't be bothered to engage with any part of parenting duties.

 

Potty training kids takes the sort of patience and attention they can't be bothered to devote, and it's just easier to stick the kids in a disposable nappy and pack them off.

 

You'd be surprised at the number of kids who turn up at primary school with no idea of how to use cutlery. Their diet at home consists of the sort of stuff the parents can chuck in a bowl for the kids to eat with their hands,

 

Then there are the really disturbing cases of kids who have no idea how to interreact with others, and can only relate to a television. Again, it reflects their home life where the parents simply stick the TV on, plonk them in front of it and leave them to it while they get on with their drinking or drug consumption.

 

It's truly frightening the way some kids are brought up, and the lives they are forced to lead.

[alpine_saint]

A friend's wife is a primary school teacher and she's been regaling us with horror stories like this for a while.

 

In her experience, it's nothing to do with busy parents, both out working with little time to train their kids, but more of bad parenting borne of ignorance and deprivation.

 

She has alerted social services on numerous occasions and found the parents are already on some sort of watch list or known to them.

 

They tend to be the sort of parent who drop their kids off at the school gates with a can of lager in one hand, and really can't be bothered to engage with any part of parenting duties.

 

Potty training kids takes the sort of patience and attention they can't be bothered to devote, and it's just easier to stick the kids in a disposable nappy and pack them off.

 

You'd be surprised at the number of kids who turn up at primary school with no idea of how to use cutlery. Their diet at home consists of the sort of stuff the parents can chuck in a bowl for the kids to eat with their hands,

 

Then there are the really disturbing cases of kids who have no idea how to interreact with others, and can only relate to a television. Again, it reflects their home life where the parents simply stick the TV on, plonk them in front of it and leave them to it while they get on with their drinking or drug consumption.

 

It's truly frightening the way some kids are brought up, and the lives they are forced to lead.

 

Personally, I cannot dwell on posts like yours for too long. I get really depressed at the sheer loss of potential; these poor little buggers get one shot at life and are being totally let down by a selfish, lazy ignorant modern society.

[Halo Stickman]

Then there are the really disturbing cases of kids who have no idea how to interreact with others, and can only relate to a television. Again, it reflects their home life where the parents simply stick the TV on, plonk them in front of it and leave them to it while they get on with their drinking or drug consumption.

 

It's truly frightening the way some kids are brought up, and the lives they are forced to lead.

 

I know for a fact that there are school kids in coastal towns such as Torquay that have never been to the beach. This isn’t because they or their parents are allergic to the sun or sand, or can’t afford to buy a plastic bucket or spade, it’s because, as you say, the parents find it much more convenient to simply plonk them in front of a TV.

 

Like Alps says, it’s so depressing to imagine the lives and futures of kids with these type of parents.

[Batman]

Something disturbing about a teenager wearing nappies

[pap]

Something disturbing about a teenager wearing nappies

 

Do you have to pay a lot of money for it, like?

[Barry Sanchez]

The biggest con ever done was Margaret Thatcher persuading the housewife that it would be best if they went out to work rather than stay at home and look after their children. This resulted in more workers at lower rates of pay, less availability of work, employers could pay lower wages, with right to buy it got rid of councils need to maintain houses and shackled millions to jobs that would prevent them striking. Before then a house cost 3 X one man's wage to but on your first mortgage, now it's nearly eight X one man's wage.

 

Thatcher turned good citizens with a conscience into capitalists overnight with that tactic, now fewer strikes which in turn lead to weaker Unions which in turn leads to business's taken advantage of the worker, the person with a mortgage is going to be far easier to control than the one with state housing, a tragedy and one we are paying the price for now.