um pahars Posted 18 December, 2008 Share Posted 18 December, 2008 Ok, fair cop on Beatts. He did put in a shift when it suited him. But I maintain it's five years since I've seen them all give their all most games. Not since WGS have a team worked as hard for one another as ours are trying now. It's failing sometimes. You and others ascribe this to a 'malaise'. I put it down to age, experience and quality. You think our results would improve through a change in formation. I don't. I think our results would improve dramatically if we got some better strikers in - ideally the ones we already bloody own!! I support JP - have no care for Lowe. You support neither. Is that fair? No it's not fair, and you've come across as right pr11ck on here tonight. HTH. Goodnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted 18 December, 2008 Share Posted 18 December, 2008 If he doesnt play 442 against forest, hes a complete twot. We need to be on the attack from start to finish. A lot of the leading managers in the world play the exact system we are playing, Man Utd sometimes play without a striker but it doesn't mean that it is not an attacking formation. Over half of the teams in this summers European championships played with one up front, including the two finalists. You can debate the effectiveness of the formation for our squad, division and circumstances but to suggest that it is not an attacking system is idiocy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 18 December, 2008 Share Posted 18 December, 2008 A lot of the leading managers in the world play the exact system we are playing, Man Utd sometimes play without a striker but it doesn't mean that it is not an attacking formation. Over half of the teams in this summers European championships played with one up front, including the two finalists. You can debate the effectiveness of the formation for our squad, division and circumstances but to suggest that it is not an attacking system is idiocy. But Jan insists we play 4 3 3 :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 18 December, 2008 Share Posted 18 December, 2008 But Jan insists we play 4 3 3 :confused: If you read what he says, I think he has been quoted as 4-3-3 going forward and 4-5-1 defending. But like I said earlier, I think we make too much of this formation. We fall down on basics time and again which I cannot have as being formation/tactic related. We really do shoot ourselves in the foot when players let the ball bounce, don't deliver corners effectively, waste free kicks, don't stay goal-side, scuff shots, etc. Now, if you said that they are not being trained properly to do the right things in their respective positions I would have genuine sypmathy with the argument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 lol @ Legog Third Coming I have always said..you can tell when people are really clutching at straws as their arguments get more and more strange.. LGTC has shown himself up tonight...(as per normal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 That's immaterial, isn't it? That's like saying a donkey should find it easier winning a donkey Derby than a thoroughbred should find it to win the Epsom Derby. It's all relative. What? like a thoroughbread always winning a donkey derby and a donkey never winning the Derby. There is a difference in class. Beattie in comparison to the Premier and the present players performing in the CCC. It is not comparing like with like. I can't see any of our present players even remotely ready to play in the Premier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 What? like a thoroughbread always winning a donkey derby and a donkey never winning the Derby. There is a difference in class. Beattie in comparison to the Premier and the present players performing in the CCC. It is not comparing like with like. I can't see any of our present players even remotely ready to play in the Premier. I actually agree with other posters that have stated that Surman is a bit slow for the PL - although his upper body strength has improved this season, last season he was barely League 2 standard at times. Lallana has the best potential to play there but not for another couple of years and I think from his recent comments Adam knows this as well which is impressive in a young player. So I think Drew will go and if we can get £2.5-3.5m for him and SJ does go on a perm deal to Bristol City and perhaps Saga elsewhere that should enough. Otherwise, Barclays might as well just pull the plug as we still need to competitive. Gobern and Mills have looked handy in cameos but it is far too early to say, Mills is v.promising IMO but very young still. Gobern looks an outstanding athlete which can help. I can see Lancashire having a sort of Gary Monk career - drifting between the top end of non-league and L2 before having another crack at this level in his late 20s. Don't think he is SFC calibre sadly. Don't understand why we signed Wotton on bigger wages than Plymouth were paying him - no pace and if he can't dislodge what is in the current first XI he shouldn't be at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 Well, even Jan himself doesn't think we should have been playing 4-3-3 for the last three months.... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=11102 "But Lee Holmes is definitely back, and if Ryan is not ready for Saturday then he certainly should be for next Friday, when we visit Plymouth. When they are both back you can really play in a 4-3-3 system with the wingers and when you do this and all the boys are there then you also have a bench with players who can make a difference." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 Well, even Jan himself doesn't think we should have been playing 4-3-3 for the last three months.... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/articles/a...?page_id=11102 "But Lee Holmes is definitely back, and if Ryan is not ready for Saturday then he certainly should be for next Friday, when we visit Plymouth. When they are both back you can really play in a 4-3-3 system with the wingers and when you do this and all the boys are there then you also have a bench with players who can make a difference." And that is one of my main problems with Jan, in that he continues with a system even when we do not have the players to play it. Without natural wingers, he put square pegs in round holes in an attempt to persevere with the only system he would appear to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 If you read what he says, I think he has been quoted as 4-3-3 going forward and 4-5-1 defending. But like I said earlier, I think we make too much of this formation. We fall down on basics time and again which I cannot have as being formation/tactic related. We really do shoot ourselves in the foot when players let the ball bounce, don't deliver corners effectively, waste free kicks, don't stay goal-side, scuff shots, etc. Now, if you said that they are not being trained properly to do the right things in their respective positions I would have genuine sypmathy with the argument... Ok I'll say it. They are not being trained properly to do the right things in their respective positions. And despite you having agreed with this statement in advance, if I say the management team are failing you'll then disagree!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 Ok I'll say it. They are not being trained properly to do the right things in their respective positions. And despite you having agreed with this statement in advance, if I say the management team are failing you'll then disagree!! More worrying is that this is an endemic failing within our system as these are not new issues for us are they? And many of these players have been in our system for some time. But, you're right, I do disagree they are failing yet. Failing to get things right quicker, I would happily agree with. But maybe I'm just too forgiving!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hughieslastminutegoal Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 More worrying is that this is an endemic failing within our system as these are not new issues for us are they? And many of these players have been in our system for some time. But, you're right, I do disagree they are failing yet. Failing to get things right quicker, I would happily agree with. But maybe I'm just too forgiving!! Endemic for how long? Endemic within our Academy for some time? Why then did RL think that the Academy was going to supply players good enough to survive in the CCC? One day people will accept that Walcott in particular, along with Bale, and losing to Ipswich Youth in one youth cup final encouraged Lowe to believe that somehow we had a youth system superior to almost everyone else. Wearing rose-tinted specs of such a deep pink hue, he must need a guide dog to find his way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 Endemic for how long? Endemic within our Academy for some time? Why then did RL think that the Academy was going to supply players good enough to survive in the CCC? One day people will accept that Walcott in particular, along with Bale, and losing to Ipswich Youth in one youth cup final encouraged Lowe to believe that somehow we had a youth system superior to almost everyone else. Wearing rose-tinted specs of such a deep pink hue, he must need a guide dog to find his way around. You could be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 19 December, 2008 Share Posted 19 December, 2008 And that is one of my main problems with Jan, in that he continues with a system even when we do not have the players to play it. Without natural wingers, he put square pegs in round holes in an attempt to persevere with the only system he would appear to know. Yes, it does seem an odd admission. The problem is you never know if his utterings give rise to "lost in translation" moments or are what he actually means. Basically, he seems to have admitted that we haven't had any proper wingers for ages. Pretty obvious to all those watching, which is probably why we have concerns about playing a system that relies on wide players holding width to strecth the opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 20 December, 2008 Share Posted 20 December, 2008 Yes, it does seem an odd admission. The problem is you never know if his utterings give rise to "lost in translation" moments or are what he actually means. Basically, he seems to have admitted that we haven't had any proper wingers for ages. Pretty obvious to all those watching, which is probably why we have concerns about playing a system that relies on wide players holding width to strecth the opposition. Dear Mr Poortvliet, If you ever consider a change of profession then may I recommend the following employer to put your skills to excellent use? http://nasajobs.nasa.gov/studentopps/employment/default.htm Yours, Trousers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt SFC Posted 20 December, 2008 Share Posted 20 December, 2008 I think we would be lower down in the table if we played a standard 4-4-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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