Handballs

[Huffton]

From my seat in the Chapel it looked like we had 4 good penalty shouts turned down, and probably one for them where the ref at least booked their lad for diving. Did they show them again on tv and was the ref right?

[Olallana]

From my seat in the Chapel it looked like we had 4 good penalty shouts turned down, and probably one for them where the ref at least booked their lad for diving. Did they show them again on tv and was the ref right?

 

The ref was wrong on our claims for handballs but correct on their clams...

 

Tbf the one in first half on Stones was closest to being a penalty imo. Lovren handball was probably just outside the box and the Osman foul looked more a foul in replay than in normal speed. I think he was on the way down before Lovren made slight contact to him.

[The Kraken]

Two at least are those that you've seen given, Stones was a lucky lad.

[DuncanRG]

I don't think any of them were pens but three (Osman, Lovren handball, Stones' last handball) could well have been given

 

 

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[Olallana]

I don't think any of them were pens but three (Osman, Lovren handball, Stones' last handball) could well have been given

 

 

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And that´s the problem imo, nobody knows when it will be given due to lack of consistensy from refs.

[shurlock]

Our shout up at their place was the most stonewall of the lot

[Bearsy]

I don't really want to see penalties given for them sort of things tbh. They should change the rules, make it indirect free kick or something.

[The Kraken]

I don't really want to see penalties given for them sort of things tbh. They should change the rules, make it indirect free kick or something.

Remember when you used to get indirect free kicks in the box for obstruction? What happened to that, yo?

[John Boy Saint]

Remember when you used to get indirect free kicks in the box for obstruction? What happened to that, yo?

They became free kicks to the defence because the attacking player was looking at them in the wrong tone of voice.

[DuncanRG]

And that´s the problem imo, nobody knows when it will be given due to lack of consistensy from refs.

 

Well, you couldn't have blamed the ref for getting the Osman one wrong. Oliver did incredibly well to spot it in real time

 

 

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[RinNY]

The ref was wrong on our claims for handballs but correct on their clams...

 

Tbf the one in first half on Stones was closest to being a penalty imo. Lovren handball was probably just outside the box and the Osman foul looked more a foul in replay than in normal speed. I think he was on the way down before Lovren made slight contact to him.

 

Osman was going down before the slightest contact from Lovren, and the ball was going out of plat too, so no way it was a penalty. But the ref was wrong to book Osman, cuz it was no dive either. Just one of those things, neither a foul nor a dive: two players stretching & going down with the slightest coming together.

[supersonic]

The only one that was a penalty was the Osman one....

[cellone]

On BT sport none of the pundits noticed osmans foot give way before lovren made the challenge. Great call by the ref. Pundits were awful - skate on the panel too.

 

But they said the ref didn't give it because Osman was already going down before the contact.

 

D James has though changed his stance on whether penalties change games. Us v city wouldn't of made a difference where as Everton against us would have changed the game totally.

[Whitey Grandad]

The only one that was a penalty was the Osman one....

 

That was the only one that could have been. At the time I thought it was a clear penalty but this was a day when things went right for us. A booking was a bit harsh though.

[ottery st mary]

Ref had an agreement before the game NO penalties.

[The Cat]

2nd half one when Baines blocked it with his arm looked a good shout from where I was sat.

 

Everton fans were going nuts about a Lovren foul on Naismith that happened right in front of them, right up the other end to me so I couldn't tell what was going on. What happened there?

[Saint_clark]

Osman one for me he was going down before there was contact, right decision.

Lovren fouled Naismith, should have been a pen.

There were also 2 clear handballs, so we should have had 2 pens as well.

Don't give me any of this ball to hand rubbish - if the arms are out and it strikes your arm, it's handball. It seems that as long as your eyes are shut or your face is turned away you can wave your arms in the air and still not risk handball.

[Whitey Grandad]

Osman one for me he was going down before there was contact, right decision.

Lovren fouled Naismith, should have been a pen.

There were also 2 clear handballs, so we should have had 2 pens as well.

Don't give me any of this ball to hand rubbish - if the arms are out and it strikes your arm, it's handball. It seems that as long as your eyes are shut or your face is turned away you can wave your arms in the air and still not risk handball.

 

Lovren was also being held down by Naismith and prevented from getting to his feet.

 

Your interpretation if handball is not in the Laws of the a Game nor in the Interpretation:

 

'Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:

• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)

• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)

• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement'

[cellone]

Are the Ref's trying to avoid games ending up 3 penalty's to 2 with beautiful football in between?

[Saint_clark]

Lovren was also being held down by Naismith and prevented from getting to his feet.

 

Your interpretation if handball is not in the Laws of the a Game nor in the Interpretation:

 

'Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with his hand or arm. The referee must take the following into consideration:

• the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)

• the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)

• the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement'

 

Naismith fell on top of him and was trying to get back up, he wasn't holding him down.

And i know what the rules say, but it's only recently that refs have changed the way they give free-kicks. They used to always give a free-kick or a pen for accidental handball, and a booking as well if it was deliberate. You can say it's unfair to punish someone for an accident, but not all fouls are deliberate either.

[benjii]

There is certainly a lot of inconsistency around this. We should have had many more penalties than we have received this season. The most obvious ones were at Norwich and Stoke, I think, and both would have probably resulted in us having more points.

 

One way to deal with this would be to remove the "deliberate" requirement, which is the discretionary element which causes the inconsistency. However, you don't deserve a penalty/goal just because you flick a ball into a defender's arm from a yard away. I agree with Hearst, there should be a new free- kick in the box for those types of handball. If the offence blocks a shot on goal or a goalscoring opportunity from being created then it would be a pelanty.

[Whitey Grandad]

Naismith fell on top of him and was trying to get back up, he wasn't holding him down.

And i know what the rules say, but it's only recently that refs have changed the way they give free-kicks. They used to always give a free-kick or a pen for accidental handball, and a booking as well if it was deliberate. You can say it's unfair to punish someone for an accident, but not all fouls are deliberate either.

 

Well, Lovren couldn't get back up until Naismith did so he was being prevented from getting up by the lump on top of him, or that's what the ref could argue. Yes, the official interpretation of the laws changes every season but at the moment handball has to be 'deliberate' whereas the others just have to be 'careless'.

[Whitey Grandad]

One way to deal with this would be to remove the "deliberate" requirement, which is the discretionary element which causes the inconsistency. However, you don't deserve a penalty/goal just because you flick a ball into a defender's arm from a yard away. I agree with Hearst, there should be a new free- kick in the box for those types of handball. If the offence blocks a shot on goal or a goalscoring opportunity from being created then it would be a pelanty.

 

I agree with this. A probable goal is a bit harsh for something minor near the edge of the box on the goal line. Unfortunately a lot of players (no names) go out of their way to try to win a penalty by aiming the ball at the arms or waiting for a leg to appear and then trying to trip over it.

[supersonic]

I agree with this. A probable goal is a bit harsh for something minor near the edge of the box on the goal line. Unfortunately a lot of players (no names) go out of their way to try to win a penalty by aiming the ball at the arms or waiting for a leg to appear and then trying to trip over it.

 

there's nothing in the rules which states you have to get your leg out of the way

 

That was the only one that could have been. At the time I thought it was a clear penalty but this was a day when things went right for us. A booking was a bit harsh though.

 

Again, the rules state that simulation is a bookable offence

[Window Cleaner]

Naismith fell on top of him and was trying to get back up, he wasn't holding him down.

And i know what the rules say, but it's only recently that refs have changed the way they give free-kicks. They used to always give a free-kick or a pen for accidental handball, and a booking as well if it was deliberate. You can say it's unfair to punish someone for an accident, but not all fouls are deliberate either.

 

 

This is about right, Lovren definitely brought down Osman and it was a penalty to them, they had an offside given against them that wasn't and Delefeou was clean through. We had 2 handballs not given, evened itself out really.

Edited 27 April, 2014 by Window Cleaner

[Hatch]

I thought it was McCarthy not Naismith.

 

Anyway, should have been pen,

 

They also showed some shirt pulling by Cork which could also have been given as a penalty. Except they hardly ever are.

[Window Cleaner]

I thought it was McCarthy not Naismith.

 

Anyway, should have been pen,

 

They also showed some shirt pulling by Cork which could also have been given as a penalty. Except they hardly ever are.

 

 

It was Osman wasn't it ???

[dronskisaint]

The second handball (where Lallana flicked it up) was nailed on from where I sat - clearly prevented the ball from reaching our player..not sure but he controlled with his hand. The other 2 were 'I've seen given' ones as was the Osman 'dive'. The Lovren rolling around was as clear a 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' variety as you'll ever see!

 

All in my humble opinion of course!

[Dr Who?]

Hand balls are such a tough one to call, as they have to be deliberate!

[igsey]

Problem with us is that a penalty given to us = a goal for Lambert - he doesn't miss and I reckon that could put referees off awarding the more dubious ones.

[Hatch]

It was Osman wasn't it ???

 

the pull back from Lovren is was on about