"Glass ceiling and summer budget"

[DuncanRG]

Even I can see that there are countless ways to make it fairer. For example, if you want to encourage sustainable teams but keep FFP then make a teams academy graduates exempt from FFP regulations. This would allow us to produce players like shaw, but offer them more competitive wages. This would also encourage the larger teams to develop their own youth rather than hoovering up (and wasting) the nations promising players.

 

That's a good idea in theory, but I don't know how I'd feel as a non-graduate player if my wages had to be capped while my team mates were getting big rises every couple of years.

 

The other thing of course is that, were clubs to rely on academy players, the rich clubs would still do better because they can afford the best facilities. See the enormous academy project Man City are undertaking with Abu Dhabi money.

[Fitzhugh Fella]

I think what really riles me is this; if all our good players are enticed away, it will be to clubs that are owned by either venture capitalists (Man Utd), oligarchs who illegally looted and plundered their nations wealth (Chelsea), or oil rich fascist Arabic states who rip the arse out of the Far Eastern labour market (Man City).

 

These sort of people, aided and abetted by Sky's fawning millions have destroyed any semblance of competing on a level playing field. However I do accept the likes of Burnley could for example point a finger at us and say if it wasn't for the Liebherr millions you would never have snatched Jay Rod from us, so I don't want to be too hypocritical, but I do console myself that at least the Liebherr wealth was not ill gotten and we have also kept things in proportion by developing the academy and more importantly giving them a chance. Things being this way will mean unless we discover vast tracts of oil under Staplewood we have reached our peak, give or take 5th or 6th if we got lucky. The glass ceiling is well and truly in place and I can't see us smashing it.

[Wade Garrett]

Man City couldn't give a toss about FFP. There punishment will be a fine of about £100,000.

 

We shouldn't give a toss either. F*ck Platini, the garlic-munching Blatter wannabe. This will all take a bit of a back seat now PS are funded by Qatar.

 

We could just pay ourselves fortune in stadium naming rights. It's all Man City did.

[Window Cleaner]

 

Once we hit £52m a year wages, we are only allowed to increase that by £2m a year.

 

.

 

I think you may want to review that statement actually. The increase in player salarial mass isn't 2 million, it's about how much PL base fund is used for salary increases. If you get a new shirt sponsor for 30 million a year you can plonk all of that on players' salaries. For the PL central fund the figure was 4 million for this season, 8 million for the next season and 12 million for the one after. The threshold figure also goes up so we'll still be under it anyway.

 

Here's the gen

 

Short-Term Cost Control MeasurePremier League clubs are restricted in terms the amount of increased PL Central Funds that can be used to increase current player wage costs to the tune of:

- 2013/14: £4m

- 2014/15: £8m

- 2015/16: £12m

The Short Term Cost Control measure applies only to clubs with a player wage bill in excess of £52m in 2013/14, £56m in 2014/15 and £60m in 2015/16.

[Kingsland Red]

I think what really riles me is this; if all our good players are enticed away, it will be to clubs that are owned by either venture capitalists (Man Utd), oligarchs who illegally looted and plundered their nations wealth (Chelsea), or oil rich fascist Arabic states who rip the arse out of the Far Eastern labour market (Man City). QUOTE]

 

Totally agree with this view point, sums everything wrong with the Premier League and why provincial teams like Leicester, Forest, Ipswich , Derby or ourselves currently have no chance of bettering previous successes.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

We absolutely have a chance based on a set of circumstances that are not as far fetched as you think. They are unlikely, but not remote.

 

We need our young players to have an affinity with our club. They need to value playing over money and status. It's not impossible if they take a long-term view over their career. We need astute signings in the market and even more nous commercially to increase revenues. We need stability at the club and a good Manager in it for the long-term. We've done a lot of the hard bits in my opinion, it's just now is the time that it gets tested.

 

It also helps to see big clubs hoard players and ruin careers of many young players. Youngsters are starting to make some wiser choices and we need to capitalise on this.

 

Clearly if a big club has a first team spot open it's near on impossible to keep a player, but we long as we continue to develop kids then we're on the right path and doing the hardest bit first. We're in a period of marginal gains and we need to be patient. If we do anything to impede our progress then that isn't acceptable. If things are taken out of our hands (like players wanting to leave) then we can't dwell and we just have to get on with it. A few seasons at 8th-10th would be good for me - then we push on.

[DuncanRG]

We absolutely have a chance based on a set of circumstances that are not as far fetched as you think. They are unlikely, but not remote.

 

We need our young players to have an affinity with our club. They need to value playing over money and status. It's not impossible if they take a long-term view over their career. We need astute signings in the market and even more nous commercially to increase revenues. We need stability at the club and a good Manager in it for the long-term. We've done a lot of the hard bits in my opinion, it's just now is the time that it gets tested.

 

It also helps to see big clubs hoard players and ruin careers of many young players. Youngsters are starting to make some wiser choices and we need to capitalise on this.

 

Clearly if a big club has a first team spot open it's near on impossible to keep a player, but we long as we continue to develop kids then we're on the right path and doing the hardest bit first. We're in a period of marginal gains and we need to be patient. If we do anything to impede our progress then that isn't acceptable. If things are taken out of our hands (like players wanting to leave) then we can't dwell and we just have to get on with it. A few seasons at 8th-10th would be good for me - then we push on.

 

Good post and I agree. It seems players (and their parents) no longer see Arsenal and Man Utd as the clubs to be at for young players. Sensibles ones never thought it of City or Chelsea. They think it of us.

 

It is unlikely but not impossible that we can capitalise on that. The difficulty is that as our players improve and demonstrate their ability to play at the top level, more first team spaces will appear for them at big clubs. If we can't break in quickly enough ourselves then some will move up and fill those spaces. I'm sure the likes of Shaw are desperate to play for Southampton in Europe and will play for that cause for a time, but if we don't look like offering it in the forseeable future then they'll choose Europe over us.

 

If we do what you describe and keep the team together, adding to it here and there, 8th-10th won't be enough for long. Finish 10th next season and there will be players on their way.

Edited 22 April, 2014 by DuncanRG

[Barry Sanchez]

I think what really riles me is this; if all our good players are enticed away, it will be to clubs that are owned by either venture capitalists (Man Utd), oligarchs who illegally looted and plundered their nations wealth (Chelsea), or oil rich fascist Arabic states who rip the arse out of the Far Eastern labour market (Man City).

 

These sort of people, aided and abetted by Sky's fawning millions have destroyed any semblance of competing on a level playing field. However I do accept the likes of Burnley could for example point a finger at us and say if it wasn't for the Liebherr millions you would never have snatched Jay Rod from us, so I don't want to be too hypocritical, but I do console myself that at least the Liebherr wealth was not ill gotten and we have also kept things in proportion by developing the academy and more importantly giving them a chance. Things being this way will mean unless we discover vast tracts of oil under Staplewood we have reached our peak, give or take 5th or 6th if we got lucky. The glass ceiling is well and truly in place and I can't see us smashing it.

 

Thats about it in the modern game, people also have to rememeber clubs have always had more money than others BUT at different periods and not so much of it, Leeds, Everton, Liverpool, Man Utd of the 60,70 and 80's. There is absolutely no chance of us ever competing as it stands none at all and it was foolish, naive and stupid for people to say so fans and club alike.

[Barry Sanchez]

We absolutely have a chance based on a set of circumstances that are not as far fetched as you think. They are unlikely, but not remote.

 

We need our young players to have an affinity with our club. They need to value playing over money and status. It's not impossible if they take a long-term view over their career. We need astute signings in the market and even more nous commercially to increase revenues. We need stability at the club and a good Manager in it for the long-term. We've done a lot of the hard bits in my opinion, it's just now is the time that it gets tested.

 

It also helps to see big clubs hoard players and ruin careers of many young players. Youngsters are starting to make some wiser choices and we need to capitalise on this.

 

Clearly if a big club has a first team spot open it's near on impossible to keep a player, but we long as we continue to develop kids then we're on the right path and doing the hardest bit first. We're in a period of marginal gains and we need to be patient. If we do anything to impede our progress then that isn't acceptable. If things are taken out of our hands (like players wanting to leave) then we can't dwell and we just have to get on with it. A few seasons at 8th-10th would be good for me - then we push on.

 

Why would any player stay if a Champions League club came in with a big offer and name the players that have done it before?

[Barry Sanchez]

Man City couldn't give a toss about FFP. There punishment will be a fine of about £100,000.

 

We shouldn't give a toss either. F*ck Platini, the garlic-munching Blatter wannabe. This will all take a bit of a back seat now PS are funded by Qatar.

 

We could just pay ourselves fortune in stadium naming rights. It's all Man City did.

 

Do you think the Liebherrs want that or would do it? I think they want to sell at the highest price possible, companies do things ie buy, sell and invest, this looks a selling game to me.

[DuncanRG]

Why would any player stay if a Champions League club came in with a big offer and name the players that have done it before?

 

First few I could think of: Suarez, Gerrard, Bale, Modric, Shaw (did not respond to serious interest in January), Schneiderlin

 

Some of them left eventually, some of them might yet. But Suarez stayed at Liverpool because, after some convincing*, he believed they could break into the top four, and they did. Of course that's far, far easier for Liverpool than us but players don't always jump ship at the very first opportunity.

 

The fact is that our players want to play for Pochettino and want to get Southampton into Europe. That's their ambition and they believe they can do it. If that's matched by the club and the club can prove it, they'll stay. At least one player, Morgan Schneiderlin, has said exactly that, and he's one of the players we're most at risk of losing. If that doesn't work out a year or two on and the big clubs are still sniffing then they will probably leave. What's important this summer is that the players and club see eye to eye and both do their bit. If they do we'll keep the squad together, and the same thing will happen all over again next year.

 

*I'm sure money played a part but he could have earnt as much or more at any of his mega-rich suitors

Edited 22 April, 2014 by DuncanRG

[Barry Sanchez]

First few I could think of: Suarez, Gerrard, Bale, Modric, Shaw (January), Schneiderlin

 

Some of them left eventually, some of them might yet. But Suarez stayed at Liverpool because, after some convincing*, he believed they could break into the top four, and they did. Of course that's far, far easier for Liverpool than us but players don't always jump ship at the very first opportunity.

 

The fact is that our players want to play for Pochettino and want to get Southampton into Europe. That's their ambition and they believe they can do it. If that's matched by the club and the club can prove it, they'll stay. At least one player, Morgan Schneiderlin, has said exactly that, and he's one of the players we're most at risk of losing. If that doesn't work out a year or two on and the big clubs are still sniffing then they will probably leave. What's important this summer is that the players and club see eye to eye and both do their bit. If they do we'll keep the squad together, and the same thing will happen all over again next year.

 

*I'm sure money played a part but he could have earnt as much or more at any of his mega-rich suitors

 

Suarez stayed because

1) He was under contract

2) Only a club of Liverpools size could enforce him staying

3) Madrid did not offer a deal

4) Liverpool were a fair bet this season for a top four place

 

 

Only Chelsea have ever come in with a bid and there is controversy over him staying but him becoming the highest paid player in the Premiership was one reason he stayed, he also won the European Cup with Liverpool so not too sure what that point is.

 

Modric and Bale went to clubs playing Champions League football, what offers has Schneiderlin and Shaw refused openly to stay at St Marys? Have I missed something.

 

 

If the club with a good gelled squad are falling well short of qualification then how can we progress when all the signs are the club want to do it on the cheap again via youth? There are no signs they are planning a big spending spree, more like readying for a sale of the club.

 

Do you honestly believe we can get into the top 5 next year?

 

Dont be silly.

[Sour Mash]

First few I could think of: Suarez, Gerrard, Bale, Modric, Shaw (January), Schneiderlin

 

Some of them left eventually, some of them might yet. But Suarez stayed at Liverpool because, after some convincing*, he believed they could break into the top four, and they did. Of course that's far, far easier for Liverpool than us but players don't always jump ship at the very first opportunity.

 

The fact is that our players want to play for Pochettino and want to get Southampton into Europe. That's their ambition and they believe they can do it. If that's matched by the club and the club can prove it, they'll stay. At least one player, Morgan Schneiderlin, has said exactly that, and he's one of the players we're most at risk of losing. If that doesn't work out a year or two on and the big clubs are still sniffing then they will probably leave. What's important this summer is that the players and club see eye to eye and both do their bit. If they do we'll keep the squad together, and the same thing will happen all over again next year.

 

*I'm sure money played a part but he could have earnt as much or more at any of his mega-rich suitors

Shaw and Schneiderlin both turned down CL clubs? Edited 22 April, 2014 by Sour Mash

[CB Fry]

Shaw and Schneiderlin both turned down CL clubs?

 

I've plumped up a cushion in anticipation of the fascinating stories about what clubs and when.

[Barry Sanchez]

I've plumped up a cushion in anticipation of the fascinating stories about what clubs and when.

 

The clappers deny lie and frankly abuse if anyone has a valid concern about how the club was and were going achieve this (European Football and holding on to our best players)

 

1) United sack Moyes and they are higher than us, why have we not sacked Pochettino?

 

2) They are getting a rumoured £150-200 Million to strengthen their squad.

 

I think reality and caution is on our side.

[DuncanRG]

Arsenal bid for Schneiderlin in the summer. The bid didn't get to the point of Morgan turning them down himself because the club rejected the offer. No clue what his view was. This was confirmed to me off the record by a well-connected journalist, along with an equally compelling tidbit that Adkins wanted to buy Kaspars Gorkss from Reading when we were in the Championship. Believe me or not.

 

Shaw I'll admit I don't know of a formal bid but it's generally believed that Chelsea picked up the phone with some seriousness in January and the club told them to back off. He's known about that interest for two or three windows and not agitated for a move. When your club rejects offers, agitating for a move is all you can do and he hasn't.

[Barry Sanchez]

Arsenal bid for Schneiderlin in the summer. The bid didn't get to the point of Morgan turning them down himself because the club rejected the offer. No clue what his view was. This was confirmed to me off the record by a well-connected journalist, along with an equally compelling tidbit that Adkins wanted to buy Kaspars Gorkss from Reading when we were in the Championship. Believe me or not.

 

Shaw I'll admit I don't know of a formal bid but it's generally believed that Chelsea picked up the phone with some seriousness in January and the club told them to back off. He's known about that interest for two or three windows and not agitated for a move. When your club rejects offers, agitating for a move is all you can do and he hasn't.

 

 

Ha ha forum gold right there folks.

 

So nothing but admitted conjecture.

[CB Fry]

Arsenal bid for Schneiderlin in the summer. The bid didn't get to the point of Morgan turning them down himself because the club rejected the offer. No clue what his view was. This was confirmed to me off the record by a well-connected journalist, along with an equally compelling tidbit that Adkins wanted to buy Kaspars Gorkss from Reading when we were in the Championship. Believe me or not.

 

Shaw I'll admit I don't know of a formal bid but it's generally believed that Chelsea picked up the phone with some seriousness in January and the club told them to back off. He's known about that interest for two or three windows and not agitated for a move. When your club rejects offers, agitating for a move is all you can do and he hasn't.

 

So neither did then. Good. Apology accepted.

[Goatboy]

99% of this forum is conjecture (at a guess).

[Sour Mash]

Arsenal bid for Schneiderlin in the summer. The bid didn't get to the point of Morgan turning them down himself because the club rejected the offer. No clue what his view was. This was confirmed to me off the record by a well-connected journalist, along with an equally compelling tidbit that Adkins wanted to buy Kaspars Gorkss from Reading when we were in the Championship. Believe me or not.

 

Shaw I'll admit I don't know of a formal bid but it's generally believed that Chelsea picked up the phone with some seriousness in January and the club told them to back off. He's known about that interest for two or three windows and not agitated for a move. When your club rejects offers, agitating for a move is all you can do and he hasn't.

Right, so just made up, fair enough.

[Barry Sanchez]

99% of this forum is conjecture (at a guess).

 

What the old my mate, a source my friend knows and the friend of the club routine? Yes yes thats it now, bad day for the happier ones but at least the light is beginning to shine on them, denial is the order of the day for them but no longer can they do that.

[Goatboy]

What the old my mate, a source my friend knows and the friend of the club routine? Yes yes thats it now, bad day for the happier ones but at least the light is beginning to shine on them, denial is the order of the day for them but no longer can they do that.

 

Is that English?

[DuncanRG]

So neither did then. Good. Apology accepted.

 

Neither can unless the club accepts a bid.

 

99% of this forum is conjecture (at a guess).

 

Indeed. I try my best not to give in...

Edited 22 April, 2014 by DuncanRG

[Barry Sanchez]

Is that English?

 

Yes, yes I believe it is, it is the grammar you are struggling with but it is English.

[CB Fry]

Neither can unless the club accepts a bid..

 

I know that. So why say they did, then?

[Barry Sanchez]

I know that. So why say they did, then?

 

It has to be one of the most bull**** claims retracted the quickest in forum history,

[Goatboy]

Yes, yes I believe it is, it is the grammar you are struggling with but it is English.

 

Lol. I don't think it's me struggling with the grammar;)

[Turkish]

Pretty impressive backtracking even by this forums standards.

 

5.25, Shaw and Schniderlin both turned down champions league clubs to stay with us.

6.48 same posters admits he's guessing Shaw did and Schniderlin didn't even speak to arsenal

[Barry Sanchez]

Lol. I don't think it's me struggling with the grammar;)

 

So what did you believe the written language was? Can you read English? Words may make no sense but you can the understand their language of origin, Goatboy you are confused.

[Goatboy]

So what did you believe the written language was? Can you read English? Words may make no sense but you can the understand their language of origin, Goatboy you are confused.

 

[Barry Sanchez]

See rule 612.

[Bearsy]

Neither can unless the club accepts a bid.

 

 

 

Indeed. I try my best not to give in...

 

I'm with you Duncan, I know what you mean. They didn't agitate for a move, or if they did they done it quiet + it didn't work. I make that Saints 2 - 0 Champions League

[Goatboy]

Or too nil.

[DuncanRG]

I know that. So why say they did, then?

 

I said they stayed!

[CB Fry]

I said they stayed!

 

You said they both turned down CL clubs. Until you backtracked, of course.

[SaintSteve]

The clappers deny lie and frankly abuse if anyone has a valid concern about how the club was and were going achieve this (European Football and holding on to our best players)

 

1) United sack Moyes and they are higher than us, why have we not sacked Pochettino?

 

2) They are getting a rumoured £150-200 Million to strengthen their squad.

 

I think reality and caution is on our side.

 

Why on earth do you post on this forum... you are an utter moron who just wants to pick posts to pieces ad infinitum... why don't you go on a forum of a team you support ??

[Fitzhugh Fella]

Why on earth do you post on this forum... you are an utter moron who just wants to pick posts to pieces ad infinitum... why don't you go on a forum of a team you support ??

 

 

So if you dare to criticise SaintSteve says you don't support Saints. The happy clappers continue to do more damage than they realise.

[trousers]

So if you dare to criticise SaintSteve says you don't support Saints.

 

[video=youtube_share;oQNFsAwJgLU]http://youtu.be/oQNFsAwJgLU

[DuncanRG]

So if you dare to criticise SaintSteve says you don't support Saints. The happy clappers continue to do more damage than they realise.

 

That particular post is fishing though, no denying it

[ottery st mary]

So if you dare to criticise SaintSteve says you don't support Saints. The happy clappers continue to do more damage than they realise.

 

You siding with an idiot like Mr Sanchez...

 

What have you come to Duncan?

 

Pathetic:mcinnes:

[shirleysfc]

So if you dare to criticise SaintSteve says you don't support Saints. The happy clappers continue to do more damage than they realise.

 

Clappers? I gave you more credit than that FF. And what damage are the "clappers" doing?

[Barry Sanchez]

So if you dare to criticise SaintSteve says you don't support Saints. The happy clappers continue to do more damage than they realise.

 

I support Southampton and always will, I just dont share the bull****e hype over some signings and can see through new horizons, its crap and the only defence the ones who support this is that I am and others are not fans, dont be soft I just dont buy the propaganda and share the blind faith that some do, I simply put my view across.

[trousers]

I support Southampton and always will, I just dont share the bull****e hype over some signings and can see through new horizons, its crap and the only defence the ones who support this is that I am and others are not fans, dont be soft I just dont buy the propaganda and share the blind faith that some do, I simply put my view across.

 

Yep, that's the kind of post that a non-supporting troll would post too. We gotta find a way of distinguishing genuine fans, like yourself Bazza, from those trolls that post persecution complex stuff. I'm working on a few ideas that I'll run by you shortly.

[Barry Sanchez]

Yep, that's the kind of post that a non-supporting troll would post too. We gotta find a way of distinguishing genuine fans, like yourself Bazza, from those trolls that post persecution complex stuff. I'm working on a few ideas that I'll share with you shortly.

 

You work on them Trousers and share them with us shortly...............................

[trousers]

You work on them Trousers and share them with us shortly...............................

 

Will do me ol' mucker

[Barry Sanchez]

Will do me ol' mucker

 

Ha ha you may be surprised to know I am a genuine fan, I just dint share your view of optimism, you attacking me for my view says more about you than me. I am not optimistic for the future as we will have to invest to carry on the progress made, there has been no indication of that hence concern.

Its not rocket science.

[DuncanRG]

There was no indication we'd invest at this stage last year either. We just did.

 

Let's see what happens and save the doomsday for if and when we know no money's gone in!

[trousers]

Ha ha you may be surprised to know I am a genuine fan, I just dint share your view of optimism, you attacking me for my view says more about you than me. I am not optimistic for the future as we will have to invest to carry on the progress made, there has been no indication of that hence concern.

Its not rocket science.

 

I know you're a genuine fan Bazza. That's precisely why I want to help you tackle the way you are constantly misunderstood on here. Don't worry, we'll educate the misguided majority one way or another.

[Barry Sanchez]

There was no indication we'd invest at this stage last year either. We just did.

 

Let's see what happens and save the doomsday for if and when we know no money's gone in!

 

 

Duncan with the greatest of respect your prophecies and insider knowledge today have not been that great mate, I would leave it.

[Saint_Tony]

I'm hoping the summer hurries up so we can find out what direction the club is going in. Every thread related to MP, transfers and budgets is turning into pages of ****e with people slagging eachother off, very tedious.