S-Clarke Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Talk about Fonte but I'm a bit worried with the ease at which Lovren becomes a passenger in a not-so-good team performance, and sometimes in other games. He seems fearful after his injury and clearly will not engage as actively as Fonte in tackles and defensive pressure situations, leaving Jose incredibly exposed. But of course, Fonte is always the odd one out. Having a starting CB and vice-captain signed from those peasants Crystal Palace for 1m is insulting in our new superstar project. The only member of our back 4 that has not been replaced in the past 5 years, but hey we fans know better... I'm also shocked at the sense of entitlement that some of our fans have after 5 years of continuous improvement. Have you forgotten who we were for most of the last 25 years, and where we've come from?? Right, ok then? I get the sentiment, but Lovren is on a different level than Fonte. The beauty is that they've worked so well together this year and have clocked up a great partnership, but Lovren is the future and to progress we need to sign players who are at a similar level to that of Lovren etc. We can stay still and threaten to stagnate such as WBA and Fulham, or we can actively evolve positions in our squad to improve the starting 11 and the depth. I hope that's what we're doing. You cannot say he's been bad for us, for me...runner up to player of the season. He is an absolutely terrific centre back,a pleasure to see a player of his calibre player for my club and I for one will enjoy every moment he is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Talk about Fonte but I'm a bit worried with the ease at which Lovren becomes a passenger in a not-so-good team performance, and sometimes in other games. He seems fearful after his injury and clearly will not engage as actively as Fonte in tackles and defensive pressure situations, leaving Jose incredibly exposed. But of course, Fonte is always the odd one out. Having a starting CB and vice-captain signed from those peasants Crystal Palace for 1m is insulting in our new superstar project. The only member of our back 4 that has not been replaced in the past 5 years, but hey we fans know better... I'm also shocked at the sense of entitlement that some of our fans have after 5 years of continuous improvement. Have you forgotten who we were for most of the last 25 years, and where we've come from?? It's not where we've come from that matters, it's where we're going. You can't make progress if you're looking backwards all the time. Fonte has a tendency to hang his legs out inviting a dive. I'm pleasantly surprised at how he has performed in the Premier League but he's always a liability waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAS Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Most sensible thing for the club to do is to buy a brand new first choice keeper, top class international level GK. Boruc then becomes backup.I'd go with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydney_saint Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 From when I refereed, when it came to things like 'how much content' I also worked it out by whether the defender gained an unfair advantage by the challenge. Think of it like scales, you need to balance out when someone gains an unfair advantage. In the case of the penalty, did Fonte gain an advantage by sticking out his leg? The striker was already past and through on goal, and the contact was not enough to bring him down. So it was the wrong decision, as City gained an advantage (a penalty) when we had not tipped the scales in our advantage through the challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 The offside decision was so bad do you think that the ref and linesman didn't see the full passage of play? The linesman unsited for the flick on and the ref with his back to Silva. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmacian_saint Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Right, ok then? I get the sentiment, but Lovren is on a different level than Fonte. The beauty is that they've worked so well together this year and have clocked up a great partnership, but Lovren is the future and to progress we need to sign players who are at a similar level to that of Lovren etc. We can stay still and threaten to stagnate such as WBA and Fulham, or we can actively evolve positions in our squad to improve the starting 11 and the depth. I hope that's what we're doing. You cannot say he's been bad for us, for me...runner up to player of the season. He is an absolutely terrific centre back,a pleasure to see a player of his calibre player for my club and I for one will enjoy every moment he is here. Of course he hasn't been bad for us, he's been one of our best...but the truth is that I do not think he has outperformed Fonte so clearly as many on here make out, nor am I convinced that he is that good when Fonte is not on the pitch, as we have seen this season. I agree the same goes for Fonte himself. Truth is all our current CBs have performed well at some stage of their Saints career, and that happened with Fonte alongside them. Be it with Hooiveld in the CCC, Yoshida, and now Lovren this season (perhaps the best yet!). That tells me the player is not only good, he is adaptable. Of course he is not amazing, but I'd argue he is more important to us than what we judge him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 The Fonte penalty. I like Fonte. He's good enough for the PL (not saying we shouldn't get an upgrade) but what he did was rank stupidity. Refs make mistakes, that's a given, and often give soft penalties which this clearly was. Why give the ref the opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Most sensible thing for the club to do is to buy a brand new first choice keeper, top class international level GK. Boruc then becomes backup. Can't see Boruc's ego coping with being the No.2. But agree with the sentiment we need a new GK despite their position in the league I like the look of David Marshall at Cardiff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 The Fonte penalty. I like Fonte. He's good enough for the PL (not saying we shouldn't get an upgrade) but what he did was rank stupidity. Refs make mistakes, that's a given, and often give soft penalties which this clearly was. Why give the ref the opportunity. If defenders are supposed to know that strikers will dive and alter their play to allow for anticipated cheating, isn't it also within the wit of referees that they might also look for cheating and not allow themselves to be conned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graffito Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 If defenders are supposed to know that strikers will dive and alter their play to allow for anticipated cheating, isn't it also within the wit of referees that they might also look for cheating and not allow themselves to be conned. We'd like to think so but refs make witless decisions and players cheat so Fonte shouldn't have stuck out his leg. He was never going to win the ball that way and he invited the dive and the ref was sucked in. It would be indefensible for any defender, let alone a good experienced pro like Fonte, and it was just plain dopey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 "You can't buy an atmosphere" - sums up everything about City and the prem. Proud of our performance despite some very difficult circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascadia Saint Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Fonte had a moment of madness. Absolutely gutted for jay. We more than matched them first half. The offside was ****ing ridiculous. Unbelievable. Gazza is ****. Really proud of the players and the way they played today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Not a great day. Some naive defending but overall a good first half performance and we moved the ball around well and quickly, lots of incisive first touch stuff. Horrible injury to J Rod it seemed, so gutted for him and hope it's not an ACL but did look like it. Adam, Rickie and Cork superb first half. The villains were Toure and Gazzaniga. Toure's diving did my head in, and the yellow card was long overdue. He should be embarrassed, a man that size and alleged strength. Gazzaniga - plenty has already been posted and so poor for goals 3 and 4. For the third, he just needs to stay big, Dzeko will get a header in but could have made himself big, instead he dashes out aimlessly like he has nearly every time he's played. His positioning for the fourth was a joke. Tim Flowers had lapses in concentration at that age but you could see the attributes of a potentially great keeper. With Gazza, I see someone that wouldn't get a game at Torquay, bottom of the Football League, because Michael Poke is better than him. Best that the club reach a mutual termination with him in the summer and he starts again in L2 or perhaps part-time. Very poor from the lino for their second, can only assume they didn't see the second touch as Silva was 5 yards off. Funnily enough, Foy would have blown if that was Lallana going through at the other end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 "You can't buy an atmosphere" - sums up everything about City and the prem. Proud of our performance despite some very difficult circumstances. Quite enjoyed the give and take from both sets of fans today. Good humour but a bit of bite as well. Sadly there were a couple of drones behind me who would not shut up about City's foreign players. When Jovetic scored it was 'OH IS HE FROM MANCHESTER THEN? YOU'VE ONLY GOT ONE ENGLISH PLAYER' Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 great first half upto injury time. i was sat in corp hospitality today. whenrickie slammed in the penalty we both jumped out of our seats and cheered rather loudly. within 20 seconds a steward came across and threatened us with ejection from the ground as you arent allowed to show who you support in that area even though the entire area erupted when the city pen went in. when my mate informed the jobs worth that he signed off the 3.5 million cheque for corporate sponsorship over 3 years with city he and went a little white and backed off fairly rapidly. made me chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Tony Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 We were always likely to lose, but what was Gazza doing for the 3rd and 4th goals? Nice to see MPs anger drive him to speaking in English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Savage makes a good point, while the 2nd goal is offside, the goal probably doesn't happen if our defenders (especially Lovren and Shaw) play to the referee's whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuncanRG Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Chambers at serious fault for two of the goals - three if you include the offside one, when the whole defence froze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Extraordinary the number of points we have conceded through not having an adequate cover for keeper, for years now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascadia Saint Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Extraordinary the number of points we have conceded through not having an adequate cover for keeper, for years now Its a great point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offix Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 Our midfield is among the best in the country, but for next season we simply must get a vastly improved defense (including GK) and more power in the attack. Oh, and we've got to keep MP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 "You can't buy an atmosphere" - sums up everything about City and the prem. Proud of our performance despite some very difficult circumstances. In what way? Sh**e, pointless song, their support is better than Chelsea, Arsenak, Spurs, Man Utd etc. The Premier League is generally hard work and our support was dire, I thought we played well, everything considered, wasn't a fair final score line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baird of the land Posted 5 April, 2014 Share Posted 5 April, 2014 It was lovely to see saints completely bossing man city after a silly start by fonts. Gutted for Jrod, hope it is not as serious as it appears. Sadly the linesman ruined the game. Hope at the very least he is stood down for next week as that was rank incompetence by him. Sadly gazzaniga seems a very weak link and I don't see much potential in him and deeply hope Boruc returns for rest of season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Saint Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Atmosphere was really **** in the away end today. We've been poor in that respect most games this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 We haven't been too good in the keeper department for some time now - maybe we need a new keeper coach/scout? I will refrain from the Gazza debate, but we have in Gazza and Coddy, two similar aged keepers - surely we don't need both? Get rid of one or both this summer. KD should be retired or made coach (however if he has had any input so far then no thanks). Be great to have two top keepers competing for their place, like all other outfield positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Atmosphere in the away end was ****e today. Was just as bad at spurs the other week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red&white56 Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Atmosphere was really **** in the away end today. We've been poor in that respect most games this season. It wasn't that bad seeing as we spent most of the game in a losing position. City were poor, very little atmosphere and only sang after scoring or egged on by us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SO16_Saint Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 The OS is referring to "an offside-looking goal at the start of first-half stoppage time...". If a player looks offside when the ball is played to him, its because he IS offside. Is the OS afraid of pointing out a referee's mistake? Glad to see MP wasn't afraid of saying what he thought about that and about the unjustified penalty decision. But the real fault lies with the FA which allows bad refereeing to go unchallenged, cheating players to continue to cheat, and which tries to gag criticism by fining managers for pointing out the mistakes. For the penalty, regardless of whether Fonte should have anticipated the Man City forward would dive, the fact is Fonte did not commit a foul and the player cheated. The cheating continued through the game with eventually a Man City player being "warned" with a yellow card. In most other sports, cheats are severely punished and are banned from competing. Snooker and Cycling are just two examples. As long as cheats can get away with cheating in football, it will carry on. There is a sickness in this game and its cause is money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Savage makes a good point, while the 2nd goal is offside, the goal probably doesn't happen if our defenders (especially Lovren and Shaw) play to the referee's whistle. Ordinarily I'd agree, but he was SO far offside it was reasonable of them to assume the ref was about to call it. I think they'd have scored anyway fwiw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 It was a game that we could have at least have gained a draw from, if not won under different circumstances. Fonte was ridiculous flicking up his leg like that to give away the penalty and had he not done so, it was not a given that they would have scored otherwise. Then had the linesman been as competent as one is entitled to expect at the top level and ruled their second goal offside, then it could have been 1-0 to us at half time, as we probably also would not have conceded that third goal from the kick-off. For us to have got anything from the game, it also would have required Rodriguez to have stayed on fit and for Boruc to have played, as Rodriguez is key to the high pressing game and Boruc would probably have saved at least one of their goals. So overall there is some comfort that could be taken from the game, that we dominated possession in the first half and some of their goals were down to poor refereeing or poor mistakes from our defence. Unfortunately although Boruc will hopefully be back for the next games, Rodriguez will be a big miss if he is out for the rest if the season. But it might be a blessing in disguise from the perspective that there is little to play for in the table and it might be the ideal opportunity to give Sam Gallagher a run out as his direct replacement. As for City, it is a disgrace that they have players that cost so much because of their supposed quality, but who are prepared to cheat by throwing themselves to the ground theatrically in order to gain penalties. They deserve the utmost derision and the football authorities should do something a bit more aggressive to stamp it out before it becomes even more widespread. It is something that can easily be analysed post match to check it in detail, but then perhaps a three match ban would do the trick. Patently it is obvious that when a penalty can be gained by conning the referee, whereas only a yellow card will be given if the cheating fails to impress, then it is worthwhile players attempting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 The Fonte penalty. I like Fonte. He's good enough for the PL (not saying we shouldn't get an upgrade) but what he did was rank stupidity. Refs make mistakes, that's a given, and often give soft penalties which this clearly was. Why give the ref the opportunity. Fonte does make a habit of fouling when he is beaten, mostly shirt pulling, and I fear he has got into a habit of hoping he can get away with it. Not on this occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 the fact is Fonte did not commit a foul Yes, he did. He stuck his leg out in a deliberate and cynical attempt to impede the attacking player, with no intention of trying to play the ball. Regardless of how much contact there was or whether or not the player stayed on his feet, according to the laws of the game that is a foul and worthy of direct free kick or a penalty. See my post #76. You can carry on bemoaning the refereeing as much as you like, but the simple fact is that there is only one person responsible for conceding that penalty and it is Fonte. If he had tried to play the ball and the attacker dived, then I would completely agree with you, but that is not what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 I've got no complaints with the City pen. It was clumsy defending. Shouldnt just dangle a leg out like that FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitch01 Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Fonte is having the season of his career but that was a major mistake yesterday. Combined with that nasty injury, offside goal and poor goalkeeping from Gazzaniga on number 4 the game was taken away from us. Hope Gaston is back in the team to replace Rodriguez next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Did anyone notice the two cameramen aggressively following Gazza around prematch? Talk about adding to the pressure. Surprised if it was part of BT's coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick1976.4.38 Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 singing you cant buy an atmosphere when ours wasn't much better is a bit embarrassing to be fair. our support has been poor for awhile now to be honest,like most of the premiership fonte shouldn't have left his leg up like that but for it to bring dzecko down is a joke,as for toure,he should've been sent off for his amount of cheating I hope saints never get to ths level of cheating to win a game overall I thought we played very well,4-1 wasn't a fair reflection of the game last game of the season for me,so enjoy the rest all of ya coys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 (edited) singing you cant buy an atmosphere when ours wasn't much better is a bit embarrassing to be fair. our support has been poor for awhile now to be honest,like most of the premiership fonte shouldn't have left his leg up like that but for it to bring dzecko down is a joke,as for toure,he should've been sent off for his amount of cheating I hope saints never get to ths level of cheating to win a game overall I thought we played very well,4-1 wasn't a fair reflection of the game last game of the season for me,so enjoy the rest all of ya coys Not really when they were moaning about players that cost more than our entire side. Out of the bigger sides, worst atmosphere I've experienced this season (Spurs possibly worse) - might have something to do with the quick fire nature of their 2nd and 3rd goals that allowed them to relax. But I remember Chelsea and Arsenal making more noise in the second half when we played. Let's not forget it was a pretty rubbish time for an away game - City who also have something to play for don't have that excuse. Edited 6 April, 2014 by shurlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffo Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Atmosphere was really **** in the away end today. We've been poor in that respect most games this season. Atmosphere in the away end was ****e today. Was just as bad at spurs the other week It's been sh*t all season. Doing my head in now. 99% of our support stand there in silence. Wasn't like it at all in L1/Championship so our away followings now are clearly the type that only turn up when we're in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 I've got no complaints with the City pen. It was clumsy defending. Shouldnt just dangle a leg out like that FFS. When I saw that, I wondered whether our defence had been instructed to protect against shots on goal to a greater extent (and at greater risk) than usual, because we had our 3rd choice keeper on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 It's not where we've come from that matters, it's where we're going. You can't make progress if you're looking backwards all the time. Fonte has a tendency to hang his legs out inviting a dive. I'm pleasantly surprised at how he has performed in the Premier League but he's always a liability waiting to happen. If you read the Classical Philosophers you can paraphrase Cicero (in 65BC) when he wrote 'Not to have known what happened before one was born is to be forever a child'. In other words 'How the hell do you know where you are GOING if you don't know where you've BEEN' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 When I saw that, I wondered whether our defence had been instructed to protect against shots on goal to a greater extent (and at greater risk) than usual, because we had our 3rd choice keeper on. Was my thought as well - that Fonte overcompensated because Gazza was in goal. But Fonte's naturally a reckless player - enjoys diving in. Got away with it several times at Spurs most recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 If you read the Classical Philosophers you can paraphrase Cicero (in 65BC) when he wrote 'Not to have known what happened before one was born is to be forever a child'. In other words 'How the hell do you know where you are GOING if you don't know where you've BEEN' Quite true but I would rather live in the future than the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Quite true but I would rather live in the future than the past. It'd be great if we knew what the future holds. Just hope you don't make the same mistakes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batman Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Gazzaniga is utterly dreadful. Same mistakes over and over. He needs to go out on loan for a whole season in league 1 or the champ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sanchez Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 If you read the Classical Philosophers you can paraphrase Cicero (in 65BC) when he wrote 'Not to have known what happened before one was born is to be forever a child'. In other words 'How the hell do you know where you are GOING if you don't know where you've BEEN' You also have to think and move forward and not use the years of before as a comfort blanket, be honest and move on. Barry Sanchez 2014 (Cicero was articulate but an indecisive person so maybe not the best example) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 Gazzaniga is utterly dreadful. Same mistakes over and over. He needs to go out on loan for a whole season in league 1 or the champ So someone else can see how crap he is? When does his contract end? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 They're Laws, not rules. If you think that was an attempt to trip then you're in the wrong sport. (There's no need to quote the Laws to a qualified referee ) It looked a though Fonte was sent the wrong way and tried to initially knock the ball away with his heel as he was unbalanced. Djecko took the opportunity to fall over. When one watches rugby players taking hits and not being knocked down it proves most athletes could keep going most of the time. Footballers basically are cheats and the referees help them with their decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 (edited) It looked a though Fonte was sent the wrong way and tried to initially knock the ball away with his heel as he was unbalanced. Djecko took the opportunity to fall over. When one watches rugby players taking hits and not being knocked down it proves most athletes could keep going most of the time. Footballers basically are cheats and the referees help them with their decisions. They should make a rule that if ur not trying to stay on your feet and get on with the game then the ref is not allowed to give a foul. I wonder what that would look like? It would cut out simulations, but the I spose defenders would start doing more dirty, sneaky Italian fouls. In some ways sneaky nudges and shirt pulls is just as much cheating as doing a dive. Rugby players is much worse than footballers tho IMO, soon as ref back is turned they start punching each other in the face! Can you imagine the scandals if footballers started doing that? Edited 6 April, 2014 by Bearsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 6 April, 2014 Share Posted 6 April, 2014 They should make a rule that if ur not trying to stay on your feet and get on with the game then the ref is not allowed to give a foul. I wonder what that would look like? It would cut out simulations, but the I spose defenders would start doing more dirty, sneaky Italian fouls. In some ways sneaky nudges and shirt pulls is just as much cheating as doing a dive Basically, falling over easily, shirt pulling, nudges etc are all cheating aided and abetted by referees not sticking their necks out. After all the chief ref gave something like 27 penalties at OT for MU. Also gave penalty at SMS v MU in FA Cup when ball hit the Saints player on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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