Preparing nursery children for school

[Goatboy]

They've clearly got you brainwashed already.

 

Mods, I think it might be a good idea to delete hypo's posts on this topic, or at least the links. He's obviously here on a recruiting campaign for his cult, and I don't feel particularly comfortable with it. Lots of young kids use this site.

 

[hypochondriac]

This organisation that you are praising so much is financed by an overall movement that seems to exclude its members when they offer any sort of dissent.

 

Given the guiding principles and the apparent vengefulness of the parent organisation, do you think it is appropriate that one of their companies should be entrusted with the development of children?

 

Again, go there and judge for yourself. It's much better to speak from personal experience on these matters than to form your opinion based on a website. Personally I found the people I spoke to very enlightened about the outside world and earnest about giving children positive experiences. I'm saddened at the turn this thread has taken to be honest, I was hoping to avoid conspiracy theories for once.

Edited 4 April, 2014 by hypochondriac

[pap]

Again, go there and judge for yourself. It's much better to speak from personal experience on these matters than to form your opinion based on a website. Personally I found the people I spoke to very enlightened about the outside world and earnest about giving children positive experiences. I'm saddened at the turn this thread has taken to be honest, I was hoping to avoid conspiracy theories for once.

 

It's not just one website, hypo - there are plenty out there covering the same sort of treatment from the Bruderhof lot, plenty reporting bad experiences within a movement in control of something you are promoting. I'm not even singling them out either. Quite a few religious groups ostracise their members if they fall out of line.

 

Who in this circumstance has the most credence? These people offering articulate accounts, or you (and me, if I took you up on the visit challenge) spending a couple of days listening to a sales pitch?

 

No disrespect, mate - but I see a lot of religious groups claiming to be one thing ("nice and forward thinking" - look at our teaching methods) and being something else ("you disagree. you are banished. never speak with fellow church members again").

 

Potentially putting a kid into the care of people with those sort of ideas is not something I would countenance.

[hypochondriac]

Well as you have never been there nor seen this particular group (and as I can see nothing referring to this group in particular in Kent) I'm quite happy to take what they have said at face value. Even if they are some sort of secret evil sect, which I don't believe, they make excellent furniture and their story was inspiring. I'm not advocating sending children to them to go and live, nor am I saying they are perfect, I am simply saying I agree with the values they are saying they promote and they appeared to be extremely warm and friendly individuals and my day was certainly brighter for having visited.

[Goatboy]

Well as you have never been there nor seen this particular group (and as I can see nothing referring to this group in particular in Kent) I'm quite happy to take what they have said at face value. Even if they are some sort of secret evil sect, which I don't believe, they make excellent furniture and their story was inspiring. I'm not advocating sending children to them to go and live, nor am I saying they are perfect, I am simply saying I agree with the values they are saying they promote and they appeared to be extremely warm and friendly individuals and my day was certainly brighter for having visited.

 

I don't mean to be irreverent or disrespectful but...take a deep breath and read what you are posting. Even you sound dodgy?

[Halo Stickman]

It's not just one website, hypo - there are plenty out there covering the same sort of treatment from the Bruderhof lot, plenty reporting bad experiences within a movement in control of something you are promoting. I'm not even singling them out either. Quite a few religious groups ostracise their members if they fall out of line.

 

Who in this circumstance has the most credence? These people offering articulate accounts, or you (and me, if I took you up on the visit challenge) spending a couple of days listening to a sales pitch?

 

No disrespect, mate - but I see a lot of religious groups claiming to be one thing ("nice and forward thinking" - look at our teaching methods) and being something else ("you disagree. you are banished. never speak with fellow church members again").

 

Potentially putting a kid into the care of people with those sort of ideas is not something I would countenance.

 

I agree with that, pap.

 

In my experience, communities like these are adept at portraying themselves as some sort of panacea for society’s ills, but scratch beneath the surface and a less rosy picture often emerges.

 

I doubt whether schools and other institutions based on any one particular religion – or, indeed, any one particular ideology – are the best environments for developing open and independently minded individuals.

[hypochondriac]

I agree with that, pap.

 

In my experience, communities like these are adept at portraying themselves as some sort of panacea for society’s ills, but scratch beneath the surface and a less rosy picture often emerges.

 

I doubt whether schools and other institutions based on any one particular religion – or, indeed, any one particular ideology – are the best environments for developing open and independently minded individuals.

 

I never claimed there were. What I said was that this particular place I visited was inspiring and I agreed with the philosophies they said they followed and the reason why they made the furniture and play equipment that they did (play equipment which you will see in virtually every nursery setting in the country by the way.) I had no idea what to expect and I have no clue what their childcare is like but their philosophy was very interesting.

Edited 5 April, 2014 by hypochondriac

[pap]

I never claimed there were. What I said was that this particular place I visited was inspiring and I agreed with the philosophies they said they followed and the reason why they made the furniture and play equipment that they did (play equipment which you will see in virtually every nursery setting in the country by the way.)

 

I'm not having a go at you hypo, and I don't think Halo Stickman is either.

 

I've no doubt that in your best professional judgment, which I'm not calling into question, these people seemed like they were running a sound outfit. As Halo says, these sort of groups are adept at presenting themselves as one thing front and centre, yet having different views behind closed doors.

 

We've got a couple of evangelical churches up here doing similar outreach programs. They were doing alright when they were running foodbanks, but got their pants pulled down over one of their other programs, "pray the gay away".

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-frontline-church-centre-row-3360219

 

Ultimately, most of these organisations never really say what they're about. When it comes down to it, they want 10% of your income and your unyielding obedience.

 

And no, I'm not a survivor or anything like that; but I've helped a lot of people out of situations where they could be exploited by groups like these.

[hypochondriac]

I'm not having a go at you hypo, and I don't think Halo Stickman is either.

 

I've no doubt that in your best professional judgment, which I'm not calling into question, these people seemed like they were running a sound outfit. As Halo says, these sort of groups are adept at presenting themselves as one thing front and centre, yet having different views behind closed doors.

 

We've got a couple of evangelical churches up here doing similar outreach programs. They were doing alright when they were running foodbanks, but got their pants pulled down over one of their other programs, "pray the gay away".

 

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/liverpool-frontline-church-centre-row-3360219

 

Ultimately, most of these organisations never really say what they're about. When it comes down to it, they want 10% of your income and your unyielding obedience.

 

And no, I'm not a survivor or anything like that; but I've helped a lot of people out of situations where they could be exploited by groups like these.

 

I'm not denying that this organisation could be like that. What I don't believe in is lumping every group in together. Even that site you linked to said that a lot of positives came from groups such as the one in Kent but there were certain factions who had problems. I have no doubt that there are certain religious groups that ruin lives or force people to be a certain way but I saw no evidence of that whilst I was there. That doesn't mean that it doesn't happen but it's not the impression my group had and if members of our group are inspired by the experience and motivated to improve childcare practices as a result then fantastic.

 

Overall they were very friendly, very welcoming, posed no threat to us physically or mentally and were happy to share with us how they designed and made their products and offered us assistance with planning a room in the future. I'm not advocating sending children there, I'm simply relaying my experience and suggesting people make their own minds up rather than tarring every religious community with the same brush.

[Ludwig]

Well as you have never been there nor seen this particular group (and as I can see nothing referring to this group in particular in Kent) I'm quite happy to take what they have said at face value. Even if they are some sort of secret evil sect, which I don't believe, they make excellent furniture and their story was inspiring. I'm not advocating sending children to them to go and live, nor am I saying they are perfect, I am simply saying I agree with the values they are saying they promote and they appeared to be extremely warm and friendly individuals and my day was certainly brighter for having visited.

 

I've always said that you can say what you want about Josef Fritzl (and some people wish to label him a "monster") but you cannot deny he was a brilliant handyman. In fact, brilliant is an understatement (and "handyman" is probably an insult). He is quite inspirational.

[Jonnyboy]

Has hypo joined the scientiologisties?

[hypochondriac]

If you don't understand what I am saying then I'm not going to elaborate further.

[pap]

If you don't understand what I am saying then I'm not going to elaborate further.

 

Weird.

 

When people don't understand what I'm saying, I normally elaborate further.

 

Very defensive on this, mucker. Joined a new, "different" church lately?

[hypochondriac]

Weird.

 

When people don't understand what I'm saying, I normally elaborate further.

 

Very defensive on this, mucker. Joined a new, "different" church lately?

 

I've elaborated as much as I am able and posters such as yourself are deliberately misunderstanding what I say so a serious thread has descended into cheap point scoring and jokes about cults. And people call me a WUM. How about if you have a serious point to make, tell me what you disagreed with in my last reply to you? I think I made my stance fairly clear. Even when attempting to have a civilised discussion with yourself you start on with the inflammatory comments and attitude and then go running off calling foul when anyone gives it back to you.

Edited 5 April, 2014 by hypochondriac

[pap]

I've elaborated as much as I am able and posters such as yourself are deliberately misunderstanding what I say so a serious thread has descended into cheap point scoring and jokes about cults. And people call me a WUM. How about if you have a serious point to make, tell me what you disagreed with in my last reply to you? I think I made my stance fairly clear. Even when attempting to have a civilised discussion with yourself you start on with the inflammatory comments and attitude and then go running off calling foul when anyone gives it back to you.

 

It's like Goatboy says. Take a deep breath and read what you're posting. No harm to you, hypo; but this isn't the first time you've shot from the hip and lived to regret it. If I was really interested in point-scoring, I'd have gone to town on Ludwig's response, which was very smart on that level.

 

While I admire Ludwig's creativity here, putting you down really isn't my interest. Just do a bit of research before signing any direct debit mandates, mucker.

[hypochondriac]

It's like Goatboy says. Take a deep breath and read what you're posting. No harm to you, hypo; but this isn't the first time you've shot from the hip and lived to regret it. If I was really interested in point-scoring, I'd have gone to town on Ludwig's response, which was very smart on that level.

 

While I admire Ludwig's creativity here, putting you down really isn't my interest. Just do a bit of research before signing any direct debit mandates, mucker.

 

So the answer is no you don't fancy reading what I posted and telling me what was wrong with the response I gave you. You seem to think that I am endorsing some cult who isn't what I said at all. Why you think I'm annoyed by a response on an Internet forum is odd. I'm posting on here in between other things. Fancy responding to what I actually wrote instead of telling me to read my own posts? Not the first time you have responded to posters in this manner.

[hypochondriac]

The facts are this:

 

I posted about a visit where I met a group that fled persecution from the nazis and who made a popular load of play equipment for children.

 

I found their story and their values and ethos something that I agreed with and I believe it helped some staff to consider how they planned their resources to ensure that children had opportunities for play and were able to use their imaginations. I found them to be welcoming and intelligent individuals.

 

This group happen to be a religious community that you and some pages on the Internet claim has links to poor practices and who have damaged people's lives. I contest that even if this did take place in Kent (which I doubt, having visited.) that doesn't mean what they present as their ethos and values is less correct, that myself or my staff did not receive something positive from the visit which will help with childcare in the city and that their play equipment is anything less than excellent!

 

Now if you want to continue the discussion regarding this why not tell me what part of that you have a problem with? Or you know do what you normally do and tell me to take a deep breath, read my own post or pretend I'm a member of a cult. I can already guess what you will go with!

[pap]

The facts are this:

 

I posted about a visit where I met a group that fled persecution from the nazis and who made a popular load of play equipment for children.

 

I found their story and their values and ethos something that I agreed with and I believe it helped some staff to consider how they planned their resources to ensure that children had opportunities for play and were able to use their imaginations. I found them to be welcoming and intelligent individuals.

 

This group happen to be a religious community that you and some pages on the Internet claim has links to poor practices and who have damaged people's lives. I contest that even if this did take place in Kent (which I doubt, having visited.) that doesn't mean what they present as their ethos and values is less correct, that myself or my staff did not receive something positive from the visit which will help with childcare in the city and that their play equipment is anything less than excellent!

 

Now if you want to continue the discussion regarding this why not tell me what part of that you have a problem with? Or you know do what you normally do and tell me to take a deep breath, read my own post or pretend I'm a member of a cult. I can already guess what you will go with!

 

I doubt that anyone that gave you the sales tour fled persecution from the Nazis. How old were they?

 

You're impressed by their story? Fair enough. On that basis, I'm a Desert Rat that fought Rommel's armies and came back to tell the tale.

[hypochondriac]

I doubt that anyone that gave you the sales tour fled persecution from the Nazis. How old were they?

 

You're impressed by their story? Fair enough. On that basis, I'm a Desert Rat that fought Rommel's armies and came back to tell the tale.

 

Again you don't actually address anything I have said other than a single unrelated point which is to be expected from you. You know none of the stories I was impressed by so have no right to sneer which is your stock response to most things on here and yes in fact many of the details did come from a 99 year old in a wheelchair who still assembled wheels for trucks on the workplace floor. What reason would they have to lie? They weren't gaining anything from it, I'm not buying any more of their products (they give a lot of it away and in fact gave us some) and were simply telling us how they started and why they believe what they do.

Edited 5 April, 2014 by hypochondriac

[Grey Crab]

If you don't understand what I am saying then I'm not going to elaborate further.

 

Fair enough. You stand your ground on this. Just because it sounds like a cult and everybody thinks it is a cult it doesn't mean it's a cult and you shouldn't have to defend it against it being a cult (which it obviously is). I applaud your stance in not giving in to people on this. Don't elaborate. Nobody's forcing you to elaborate and you are right in not elaborating just because of the whims of others.

 

The facts are this:

 

I posted about a visit where I met a group that fled persecution from the nazis and who made a popular load of play equipment for children.

 

I found their story and their values and ethos something that I agreed with and I believe it helped some staff to consider how they planned their resources to ensure that children had opportunities for play and were able to use their imaginations. I found them to be welcoming and intelligent individuals.

 

This group happen to be a religious community that you and some pages on the Internet claim has links to poor practices and who have damaged people's lives. I contest that even if this did take place in Kent (which I doubt, having visited.) that doesn't mean what they present as their ethos and values is less correct, that myself or my staff did not receive something positive from the visit which will help with childcare in the city and that their play equipment is anything less than excellent!

 

Now if you want to continue the discussion regarding this why not tell me what part of that you have a problem with? Or you know do what you normally do and tell me to take a deep breath, read my own post or pretend I'm a member of a cult. I can already guess what you will go with!

 

Thanks for elaborating further.

[Grey Crab]

Again you don't actually address anything I have said other than a single unrelated point which is to be expected from you. You know none of the stories I was impressed by so have no right to sneer which is your stock response to most things on here and yes in fact many of the details did come from a 99 year old in a wheelchair who still assembled wheels for trucks on the workplace floor. What reason would they have to lie? They weren't gaining anything from it, I'm not buying any more of their products (they give a lot of it away and in fact gave us some) and were simply telling us how they started and why they believe what they do.

 

Seriously, what does it matter what we think? You think it is great and we all know it is clearly a cult. So what? Just carry on thinking it is great, nobody is stopping you.